Originally posted by Bardock42
Kinda the same for me. The one follows from the other.
No... If we were to legalize every illegal alien in America just because, then why not just do away with the border and let everyone and anyone in? That is a horrible idea as there needs to immigration laws, checks and balances and we have that. Though it fails often as you can see by the numbers of people illegally sneaking past the borders and breaking the law.
Originally posted by Robtard
No... If we were to legalize every illegal alien in America just because, then why not just do away with the border and let everyone and anyone in? That is a horrible idea as there needs to immigration laws, checks and balances and we have that. Though it fails often as you can see by the numbers of people illegally sneaking past the borders and breaking the law.
No, that is a great idea actually. Not horrible at all.
But I don't know if there is a point to argue, I made my view clear...you...well, replied to it. It goes in circles. It doesn't seem like you are going to see that I am right any time soon..well, maybe your children or grandchildren, but at some point people will.
Originally posted by Bardock42
No, that is a great idea actually. Not horrible at all.But I don't know if there is a point to argue, I made my view clear...you...well, replied to it. It goes in circles. It doesn't seem like you are going to see that I am right any time soon..well, maybe your children or grandchildren, but at some point people will.
You could possibly (slim chance) be right if we lived in this perfect world you talk about, but we do not live in a perfect world...
Here's another angle, you think illegal immigrants should have a free pass because you feel they have a right to a better life regardless of where they were born or regardless of another countries laws correct?
One thing though, if America were to open it's borders (criminal, terrorist, drug issue aside) and let every single improvished person into the U.S. as you think it should, it would throw the economy out of balance as there wouldn't be enough jobs, money and food for everyone and then America itself would become just like the country the illegals left to better themselves. NOT a great idea.
Originally posted by Robtard
You could possibly (slim chance) be right if we lived in this perfect world you talk about, but we do not live in a perfect world...Here's another angle, you think illegal immigrants should have a free pass because you feel they have a right to a better life regardless of where they were born or regardless of another countries laws correct?
One thing though, if America were to open it's borders (criminal, terrorist, drug issue aside) and let every single improvished person into the U.S. as you think it should, it would throw the economy out of balance as there wouldn't be enough jobs, money and food for everyone and then America itself would become just like the country the illegals left to better themselves. NOT a great idea.
That is not another angle that is the same angle that has been covered before. And yes, if 3 billion people would get into your country alone it would destroy the Economy (maybe) But of only people that will actually emigrate (which are not all people, since not all people want to live in the US as you think they do) and all of the EU and the US and Canada would open their boarders we could certainly take it. It would not destroy our economies. That is a ridiculous thought.
Seeing as how I was conveniently ignored, I'll repost:
Originally posted by Bardock42
maybe free immigration is not that bad, maybe it would not have all the bad consequences we pretend it would have.
Did you know that more people were killed, raped, or robbed by illegal immigrants last year, than all the people killed in the 3 years of the Iraq war and 9/11 combined?
I'm not for throwing anybody out, all who are here should be made citizens, and should learn the language, get background checks, and then start paying taxes.
They can stay.
But everybody else in the world has to wait 5 to years to get here, and go through the process.
Mexicans should too.
I'm no racist either, I come from East San Jose, and most of my friends in high school were black or Hispanic. I've worked washing dishes, at construction sites, and in warehouse's with illegal mexican immigrants. They're great people, fun-loving, hard-working who want a better life, for the most part.
But don't pretend that only the good ones come over.
We get the shit ones too.
Final point: Though they may live in destitute conditions, and may want more from life (just as people in India, Africa, etc... do), and though our country's principle's are to allow them to have that better life here....
The whole bloody world cannot live here.
Logistically, half of the whole world couldn't even live here, unless we start building the 20 story high apartments everywhere, like in Blade Runner or something.
No, other countries citizens must stand up and fight as ours did to create a better country where they are.
That's the solution to the world's problems, not to send them all here.
Originally posted by Bardock42
That is not another angle that is the same angle that has been covered before. And yes, if 3 billion people would get into your country alone it would destroy the Economy (maybe) But of only people that will actually emigrate (which are not all people, since not all people want to live in the US as you think they do) and all of the EU and the US and Canada would open their boarders we could certainly take it. It would not destroy our economies. That is a ridiculous thought.
You're basically saying this again(see below) and that is ridiculous.
Originally posted by Bardock42
It seems to be random and idiotic. We should just form a Global Anarchistic Society and live in peace doped (yeah, I'm a tree hugging liberal pussy)
How many jobs do you think there are that the illegal aliens typically take? Do you seriously think the job market is unlimited? If more keep coming in like it currently is, they will be competing not 2-3 persons per job but 8-9 persons per job. The only thing that will do is allow the people that employ them to pay less money as there is a greater demand for the job. Do you really want to see illegal immigrants work for less than they do now? They currently make less than minimum wage in many cases, do you think they'll be able to support themselves on $1.25 an hour, because that is what will eventually happen.
Originally posted by Robtard
You're basically saying this again(see below) and that is ridiculous.How many jobs do you think there are that the illegal aliens typically take? Do you seriously think the job market is unlimited? If more keep coming in like it currently is, they will be competing not 2-3 persons per job but 8-9 persons per job. The only thing that will do is allow the people that employ them to pay less money as there is a greater demand for the job. Do you really want to see illegal immigrants work for less than they do now? They currently make less than minimum wage in many cases, do you think they'll be able to support themselves on $1.25 an hour, because that is what will eventually happen.
Woah, do you seriously think that if more people come to a country that not more jobs are created? Er...wrong. You have really little faith in the capitalistic system. If more people live in a country more jobs are needed, if 12 million people should enter the country new jobs will be created. Maybe not for everybody. But it is not like the economy couldn't take it, that's ridiculous.
Originally posted by Bardock42
Woah, do you seriously think that if more people come to a country that not more jobs are created? Er...wrong. You have really little faith in the capitalistic system. If more people live in a country more jobs are needed, if 12 million people should enter the country new jobs will be created. Maybe not for everybody. But it is not like the economy couldn't take it, that's ridiculous.
Originally posted by Robtard
How many jobs do you think there are that the illegal aliens typically take? Do you seriously think the job market is unlimited? If more keep coming in like it currently is, they will be competing not 2-3 persons per job but 8-9 persons per job. The only thing that will do is allow the people that employ them to pay less money as there is a greater demand for the job. Do you really want to see illegal immigrants work for less than they do now? They currently make less than minimum wage in many cases, do you think they'll be able to support themselves on $1.25 an hour, because that is what will eventually happen.
Originally posted by Bardock42
Woah, do you seriously think that if more people come to a country that not more jobs are created? Er...wrong. You have really little faith in the capitalistic system. If more people live in a country more jobs are needed, if 12 million people should enter the country new jobs will be created. Maybe not for everybody. But it is not like the economy couldn't take it, that's ridiculous.
Originally posted by Robtard
You're basically saying this again(see below) and that is ridiculous.How many jobs do you think there are that the illegal aliens typically take? Do you seriously think the job market is unlimited? If more keep coming in like it currently is, they will be competing not 2-3 persons per job but 8-9 persons per job. The only thing that will do is allow the people that employ them to pay less money as there is a greater demand for the job. Do you really want to see illegal immigrants work for less than they do now? They currently make less than minimum wage in many cases, do you think they'll be able to support themselves on $1.25 an hour, because that is what will eventually happen.
Originally posted by Bardock42
Woah, do you seriously think that if more people come to a country that not more jobs are created? Er...wrong. You have really little faith in the capitalistic system. If more people live in a country more jobs are needed, if 12 million people should enter the country new jobs will be created. Maybe not for everybody. But it is not like the economy couldn't take it, that's ridiculous.
Originally posted by RobtardYou're not actually using the "they took our jobs" thing are you?
How many jobs do you think there are that the illegal aliens typically take? Do you seriously think the job market is unlimited? If more keep coming in like it currently is, they will be competing not 2-3 persons per job but 8-9 persons per job. The only thing that will do is allow the people that employ them to pay less money as there is a greater demand for the job. Do you really want to see illegal immigrants work for less than they do now? They currently make less than minimum wage, do you think they'll be able to support themselves on $1.25 an hour?
Originally posted by Bardock42
Woah, do you seriously think that if more people come to a country that not more jobs are created? Er...wrong. You have really little faith in the capitalistic system. If more people live in a country more jobs are needed, if 12 million people should enter the country new jobs will be created. Maybe not for everybody. But it is not like the economy couldn't take it, that's ridiculous.
Woah, do you seriously think new jobs (ones that ilegals can take) are created inline with the amount of illegals coming in each day? Something around 10,000+ illegal aliens come over the border each day, do you think that many new jobs (or close) are created each day? The balance to new jobs vs. illegal immigrants is not balanced, not even close too being balanced. Like I said, if it goes unchecked the job market for jobs that illegal aliens typically take will be flooded and that will only lower the rate of pay for those jobs and increase the illegal unemployment rate.
Originally posted by xmarksthespot
You're not actually using the "they took our jobs" thing are you?
No, and you know that... I am saying that if illegal immigration goes unchecked, the job market for the illegals already here will become a mess. As 'we' will have 6 people competing for one job were we have 3 now. That will allow the employers that hire illegals to pay them less and it will also increase the illegal unemployment rate. Which in turn, unemployment rate goes up, crime goes up as well.
But on the note of "They took our jobs", you never answered me... You had said that illegals do jobs that Americans wouldn't touch with a "ten-foot clown pole"... Though I tend to agree in some aspects, it still begs the question, those jobs were preformed before illegal immigration got out of hand like it is now, so who was doing those same jobs before?
Originally posted by RobtardI'm not agreeing with Bardock's free immigration policy, but I do agree that the weight placed on being born in a country, regardless of whether your parents were born there, is excessive. I didn't actually see the question. Define "out of hand", i.e. which "back in the old days" are you harking back to.
No, and you know that... I am saying that if illegal immigration goes unchecked, the job market for the illegals already here will become a mess. As 'we' will have 6 people competing for one job were we have 3 now. That will allow the employers that hire illegals to pay them less and it will also increase the illegal unemployment rate. Which in turn, unemployment rate goes up, crime goes up as well.But on the note of "They took our jobs", you never answered me... You had said that illegals do jobs that Americans wouldn't touch with a "ten-foot clown pole"... Though I tend to agree in some aspects, it still begs the question, those jobs were preformed before illegal immigration got out of hand like it is now, so who was doing those same jobs before?
Originally posted by RobtardNo, I think with legal immigration they will create jobs. And it will be enough. Why shouldn't it? France has 60 000 000 people and it works. Germany 80 000 000. The US currently 300 000 000. And it all works. I am saying that more people will not kill your economy, it will stabilize just as it did always. And you are thinking wrong, it is not illegal immigrants anymore then..it is Americans. Which have minimum wage and rights and companies will not be able to pay them that low. It will work, have faith in capitalism.
Woah, do you seriously think new jobs (ones that ilegals can take) are created inline with the amount of illegals coming in each day? Something around 10,000+ illegal aliens come over the border each day, do you think that many new jobs (or close) are created each day? The balance to new jobs vs. illegal immigrants is not balanced, not even close too being balanced. Like I said, if it goes unchecked the job market for jobs that illegal aliens typically take will be flooded and that will only lower the rate of pay for those jobs and increase the illegal unemployment rate.
Originally posted by xmarksthespot
I'm not agreeing with Bardock's free immigration policy, but I do agree that the weight placed on being born in a country, regardless of whether your parents were born there, is excessive. I didn't actually see the question. Define "out of hand", i.e. which "back in the old days" are you harking back to.
"Out of hand" would be the conservative estimate of 25 million illegal immigrants in the U.S. currently and the 10K that illegally cross each day.
Say 20 years ago... I live in an area were there are many illegals, I do remember when U.S. citizens did the same jobs that illegals predominantly do now. So the "They do the jobs that others won't" argument is flawed... it should be "They do the jobs for less , that others won't do." There is more too it than that though in the big picture.