Originally posted by Soljer
Uhhh...the matter manipulator could just as easily swap around a few protons and electrons inside each atom, to create the required elements in the required sequence to produce the necessary DNA, Proteins, Lipids, and Carbohydrates to compose a human being. Even woody allen.
somehow i doubt it. regardless, that would at most make the replica of woody allen's body.
i mean the actual woody allen, soul and all.
Originally posted by Soljer
Even woody allen.
That presupposes that matter = reality, there is no spiritual dimension, no soul, life is just a collection of chemicals.
The comic book universes are not materialistic in this sense. Higher/nonphysical planes abound. As such, this elan vital ought to be beyond the reach of the matter manipulator.
Of course one could argue (since this is all fictional) that if a matter manipulator assembled the right chemicals, this would attract a soul down from heaven.
not in the comic world, where there are very clearly souls. in fact, souls are one of reality's six aspects.
and just because there's no evidence doesn't mean that assembling woody allen=making woody allen. it means only that...there's no evidence. thinking that assembling=making not only assumes that (in the context of this argument) matter manipulation has ACCESS to the components required, but that this purely chemical school of thought is somehow a more valid school of thought.
none of which matters, because in comics there are souls.
Originally posted by Soljer
Uhhh...the matter manipulator could just as easily swap around a few protons and electrons inside each atom, to create the required elements in the required sequence to produce the necessary DNA, Proteins, Lipids, and Carbohydrates to compose a human being. Even woody allen.
Nicely put Sol.
Originally posted by manorastroman
not in the comic world, where there are very clearly souls. in fact, souls are one of reality's six aspects.and just because there's no evidence doesn't mean that assembling woody allen=making woody allen.
none of which matters, because in comics there are souls.
This ought to settles this debate once and for all.
Shaper of Worlds (Reality Manipulator) KILLS Marsha (Volcana) by dissolving her completely:
POST-Retcon Molecule Man (Matter Manipulator) RE-CREATES her like nothing, soul and all:
IN the end, A reality Manipulator can take NOTHING and make it something. This is what Reality means. Reality is more than what you guys are trying to make it out to. It is not a simple thing as manipulating matter. Reality can manipulate perception, thought, meanings, even energy. Matter Manipulators cannot do that. In the true sense, can a matter manipulator fight a high tier telepath who is in astral form only? Nope, he would get his ass kicked. But a reality manipulator could pull that astral form right into the concrete here and now. REality wins. Nuff said.
Originally posted by Mr Master
This ought to settles this debate once and for all.Shaper of Worlds (Reality Manipulator) KILLS Marsha (Volcana) by dissolving her completely:
POST-Retcon Molecule Man (Matter Manipulator) RE-CREATES her like nothing, soul and all:
Even on a universal scale, a matter manipulator can really only build what he's allowed to by the laws of physics, right? I mean, he can't make a pure gold bar that explodes when exposed to fire. Gold doesn't do that, he could only make some kind of facsimile. Or abuse some kind of insanely complex science that we don't understand yet but let's not count that.
Say he wanted to make it so Hitler was killed by a brick when he was 10 years old and on the crapper. The matter manipulator could remake the entire universe, or maybe just Earth, whatever, so that's what everybody knows to of happened. Complete with an old busted skull in a museum with a brick next to it. Although I don't know why it would be there if he wasn't infamous.
But it didn't really.
The actual difference is really kind of small isn't it? It's like comparing a pizza with 3 of your favorite toppings to a pizza with 2 of your favorite toppings.
Franklin Richards created a pocket universe. Parallax Wiped Clean all time, souls, realities, and matter and energy and then when it was gone, remade it all. A high tier or top tier reality mannipulator doesn't need anything to create something. Reality is WHAT he makes it. Mr. Mxy can go into the void of nothing and create an entire multiverse/universe. See a reality manipulator can change the rules and make them thier own. A matter manipulator can break the rules or bend them. It's not the same. REality Makes the rules. matter breaks them. Reality wins. REality is what something means, matter is simply what something is. IF the reality manipulator wanted, they could make it so that matter manipulation means someone who controlls ice cream. A matter manip can NOT do anything on that kind of advanced abstract lvl of power.
