Originally posted by Lord Urizen
Okay....First, let me ask you something: You have the conviction to call someone an Athiest, even when they know nothing about the idea of God, however, will you hesitate to call that same person a "good" or "bad" person ? Will you be truly convinced that your analysis of that person is in anyway factual ?
I am not sure what you mean. I am a sceptic. I am not ever 100% convinced of anything. I will be convinced that my analysis about whether they are atheist or not is relatively correct when I can be pretty sure that they either don't believe in God or do not know what a God is. What "good" and "bad" have to do with that I am not sure.
Originally posted by Lord Urizen
Or will you still factually see that person as neutral ? Remember, you have no factual basis to call that person neutral either. You only have your perspective.
I would still be pretty convinced that from an absolute basis they are neutral. Because I don't know of or believe in an absolute moral code.
Originally posted by Lord Urizen
Now, as for calling someone an Athiest. The term is NOT absolute. It is JUST a word, the same way "Good" and "Evil" are JUST WORDS. You cannot call newborn children, animals, dead people, or people who have never heard of the concept of God Athiest because the concept of GOD, and the TERM Athiest, does not apply to them.
The word is defined as something. i go by that definition. Good and bad are defined as well, but in a way that involves an absolute measurement that in my opinion does not exist. What is your trouble understanding that? And the term atheist applies to them. I don't see your problem. One does not need to have a grasp or knowledge of a concept for it to apply to them. I mean you were bisexual before you knew the word, right? And it applied to you before you knew it.
Originally posted by Lord Urizen
Plants don't believe in God. Are plants Athiest ? Rocks don't believe in God. Are rocks Athiest ?
As things they are atheistic. Sure. But we usually refer only to people as atheist. If you want to call inanimate object that as well though, I am not opposed. They fit the definition. They are in fact Godless due to their lack of knowledge of God.
Originally posted by Lord Urizen
It's absurd to label someone an Athiest who has NO RELATION to the concept of God. The TERM Athiest is IN REGARD to the concept of God, and if the PERSON is NOT in anyway in regard to the concept of God, then the person cannot factually be labelled an Athiest.
No it is not. It is the correct definition. You want it to apply only to those that are opposed to Religion. You may wish that, but it is not the actual definition. Stop trying to change the English language. it is doing quite fine without you.
Originally posted by Lord Urizen
That is now ASSUMING that you can even FACTUALLY label anybody anything. And since you are against the attempted "factual" labelling of people as "good" or "evil", how are you okay with factually labelling someone an Athiest ?
"Good" and "bad" need a moral code that I don't believe in. Or know of. By the way, you don't know of it either, to be fair. Atheism does not. They are different things.
You may argue that the term Atheism is factual, because the CONCEPT of GOD exists. Morality exists TOO....regardless of whether or not it is SUBJECTIVE or RELATIVE, MORALITY EXISTS....as a personal perspective or collective idea...it exists......thus, the terms "good" and "evil" must exist as well. [/B][/QUOTE]
Of course, relative moral probably exists. I don't deny that people can seem good or bad to me. Or you, Or Hitler. I never denied that. I denied that "good" and "bad" are absolute terms that relate to people regardless of subjective opinions. Atheism applies to them because they fit the description of the word, not because you might think they are atheists.
Originally posted by Lord Urizen
IS the concept of God somehow more valid or more solid than Morality? With all the contradictions behind the idea of God, how can ANYTHING related to this concept even be factual ?You tell me.....
Nothing can be factual. I am not dealing in absolutes. And "good" or "bad" are not terms relating to the concept of morality. But specific "morality". Atheism relates to the concept. Difference.
I mean I know you won't understand. You are not smart enough. But maybe others in this thread will get what I mean. I have great hope that lil b might. You are more of a lost case.