Originally posted by OneDumbG0No! Thor has at best light speed reflexes. Because if a light speed attack was launched from close range (3ft or closer) he would most certainly get hit. They are not a dime a dozen with human's nor with any being that most certainly doesn't have light speed reflexes. Hell u can't even find one scan where a human (or being without light speed reflexes) reacts after a beam is fired in order to dodge or block. Get that dime a dozen bullsht outta here.
Thor has FTL reflexes because there are scans which clearly indicate as such, where he reacts only after the light speed attack is initiated. Those scans with Gladiator and Count Nefaria are a dime-a-dozen with Thor, and are a dime-a-dozen with street level characters. The reason we don't automatically assume those dime-a-dozen feats are evidence of FTL reflexes is because there's a perfectly rational alternative explanation that doesn't require FTL reflexes, i.e., telegraphing.
Human's can't block a light speed attack no matter how much telegraphing is used. Not even in comics can they do this nor have ever been shown to do it.
Don't straw-man me. Just because someone's not human, doesn't automatically turn all those dime-a-dozen feats into undeniable FTL reflex feats. Just because someone's not human, doesn't automatically render telegraphing inapplicable.
Your logic stinks horribly. It's impossible to block a light speed attack head on AFTER THE FIRE without having light speed reflexes. I dare you show me someone in comics doing it that most certainly don't have light speed reflexes.
Neither your scan, nor the scans above are scans of clear-cut FTL reflexes. Why? Because there's a perfectly rational alternative explanation, telegraphing. This doesn't preclude the scans from possibly being examples of FTL reflexes, but don't hold these dime-a-dozen feats out and expect us all to embrace them wholeheartedly through some artificial "he's not human" distinction. Especially with respect to characters whose capabilities are, at best, ambiguous, i.e., albino dude fighting Supes.
I post the truth in all Thor vs. Superman threads. The problem is that you guys view these fights as how they would occur in a comic. I view them as if the the beings actually existed in reality and fought in reality.
And ESPECIALLY when you post crap like this in a Thor vs Superman thread:
Originally posted by carver9Telegraphed by the person pointing his fingers at him. Plus doesn't look canon.
WolverineBlocking lasers with his hands:
http://s233.photobucket.com/albums/ee113/wolverinerespectthread/?action=view¤t=axm-017.jpg
Aim dodgingDodging lasers coming at him:
Beams nowhere near light speed. Plus again doesn't look canon.
Slapping beams out of the air that almost goes the speed of light.
Aim dodgingDodging laser point blank.
Yes. Easy aim dodging them.
http://img136.imageshack.us/img136/5555/energydodge3.jpgComments on how easy it was dodging lasers.
Aim dodging again. I guess Wolverine don't have FTL reflexes.Dodging lightning.
http://img136.imageshack.us/img136/2039/livinglighting.png
http://img136.imageshack.us/img136/6156/livinglighting2.pngSo I guess Wolverine have FTL reflexes also.
Originally posted by h1a8Yes, it is light speed. Christ.
Cyclops beam is not light speed. Plus he telegraphs when his hand goes to his visor to fire.
Originally posted by h1a8In order to defend against a light speed attack, you need FTL reflexes. Concocting distance quantifications doesn't change that simple immutable truth. And what don't you understand? Humans don't have scans where they clearly react after a beam is fired. But they have plenty of scans where they react to a beam and it's ambiguous when it's fired. Exactly like your scan that doesn't show the character reacting only after the beam is fired.
No! Thor has at best light speed reflexes. Because if a light speed attack was launched from close range (3ft or closer) he would most certainly get hit. They are not a dime a dozen with human's nor with any being that most certainly doesn't have light speed reflexes. Hell u can't even find one scan where a human (or being without light speed reflexes) reacts after a beam is fired in order to dodge or block. Get that dime a dozen bullsht outta here.Human's can't block a light speed attack no matter how much telegraphing is used. Not even in comics can they do this nor have ever been shown to do it.
Your logic stinks horribly. It's impossible to block a light speed attack head on AFTER THE FIRE without having light speed reflexes. I dare you show me someone in comics doing it that most certainly don't have light speed reflexes.
I post the truth in all Thor vs. Superman threads. The problem is that you guys view these fights as how they would occur in a comic. I view them as if the the beings actually existed in reality and fought in reality.
Stop straw-manning. Even a fool could tell what I'm arguing: Being superhuman doesn't turn ambiguous light speed dodging/blocking into FTL feats unless you can clearly see if the character only reacts after it's fired. Your scan does no such thing as you can't tell whether the character only started reacting after the beam is fired.
Stop straw-manning. Your desperate attempt to make an end-run around the hideous gap in your own logic doesn't change this fact: Your scan doesn't show the character reacting only after the beam is fired.
It's unabashed equivocators like you who can say "Thor has never defended against light speed attacks from within 20 ft," then turn around and say "Thor has defended against light speed attacks with light speed reflexes" and act like those two things don't completely contradict each other. Don't expect anybody to take your ham-fisted interpretations of ambiguous scans seriously.
Originally posted by h1a8
Telegraphed by the person pointing his fingers at him. Plus doesn't look canon. Aim dodging Beams nowhere near light speed. Plus again doesn't look canon. Aim dodgingYes. Easy aim dodging them. Aim dodging again. I guess Wolverine don't have FTL reflexes.
None of that was aim dodging and those scans are cannon and hold more weight than any scan that you presented (and added sh** to).
By the way, wolverine had his back turned when cyclops shot that blast at him and was still fast enough to turn around and slap it out of the air. Even though his blast isnt light speed, its still close to it and I dont know where in the world you got Superman heat vision is light speed when its not.
Superman and Flash was running at 2000mps and flash out ran Supes heat vision. 😕
Originally posted by OneDumbG0No if someone can't react to a certain speed within fighting distances then it is logically incorrect to say they have such reflexes. Because a comment like that implies that they can react to such speed attacks from afar as with close fighting range.
In order to defend against a light speed attack, you need FTL reflexes. Concocting distance quantifications doesn't change that simple immutable truth. And what don't you understand? Humans don't have scans where they clearly react after a beam is fired. But they have plenty of scans where they react to a beam and it's ambiguous when it's fired. Exactly like your scan that doesn't show the character reacting only after the beam is fired.
No! Blocking a beam with one hand when it is instantly fired from an unknown time frame is reacting AFTER the fire. When someone raises their hand to point and shoot then even I can block their beam (with a shield of course).
It wasn't ambiguous in any way. That is the root of the problem here. If it is ambiguous then u are 100% right. But sadly it's not. No one that certainly doesn't have light speed reflexes have ever done that in comics EVER.
Stop straw-manning. Even a fool could tell what I'm arguing: Being superhuman doesn't turn ambiguous light speed dodging/blocking into FTL feats unless you can clearly see if the character only reacts after it's fired. Your scan does no such thing as you can't tell whether the character only started reacting after the beam is fired.
Of course it does. This is where we disagree. Thus this is where we should debate (nowhere else). If we find out u r right then my argument is lost and urs won. But if we find out I'm right then vice versa.
Stop straw-manning. Your desperate attempt to make an end-run around the hideous gap in your own logic doesn't change this fact: Your scan doesn't show the character reacting only after the beam is fired.
I don't recall saying 20ft. But if I did then I'm wrong. I say 10ft then.It's unabashed equivocators like you who can say "Thor has never defended against light speed attacks from within 20 ft," then turn around and say "Thor has defended against light speed attacks with light speed reflexes" and act like those two things don't completely contradict each other. Don't expect anybody to take your ham-fisted interpretations of ambiguous scans seriously.
Originally posted by carver9I disagree that they are canon, although I could be wrong.
None of that was aim dodging and those scans are cannon and hold more weight than any scan that you presented (and added sh** to).
I don't see where he had his back turned. But Cyclops beam is 100% concussive only and has no properties of light. Superman's HV has travel to the moon from Earth almost instantly (clearly under 2 secs). That's light speed. Plus his HV is based off radiation which moves at the speed of light.By the way, wolverine had his back turned when cyclops shot that blast at him and was still fast enough to turn around and slap it out of the air. Even though his blast isnt light speed, its still close to it and I dont know where in the world you got Superman heat vision is light speed when its not.
Prove it.Superman and Flash was running at 2000mps and flash out ran Supes heat vision. 😕
Originally posted by carver9It's only impressive if both Cyclops beam travels at light speed and Wolverine turned around AFTER the beam was fired.
Wolverine had his back turned when he slapped the blast. 😕Again, thats more impressive than anything that you've shown.
Originally posted by h1a8
No if someone can't react to a certain speed within fighting distances then it is logically incorrect to say they have such reflexes.
Because a comment like that implies that they can react to such speed attacks from afar as with close fighting range.No! Blocking a beam with one hand when it is instantly fired from an unknown time frame is reacting AFTER the fire. When someone raises their hand to point and shoot then even I can block their beam (with a shield of course).
It wasn't ambiguous in any way. That is the root of the problem here. If it is ambiguous then u are 100% right. But sadly it's not. No one that certainly doesn't have light speed reflexes have ever done that in comics EVER.
Of course it does. This is where we disagree. Thus this is where we should debate (nowhere else). If we find out u r right then my argument is lost and urs won. But if we find out I'm right then vice versa.
I don't recall saying 20ft. But if I did then I'm wrong. I say 10ft then.
In your silly pathetic scan you cannot see whether he only started moving his hand when it is instantly fired or after it is instantly fired. Superman's eyes start lighting up and the panel's focus cuts away from whatever the character is doing. For you to assume he cannot be moving at that time or between the transition from panel 1 to panel 2 is a completely atrocious assumption.
You obviously are aware of why your criticisms of those Wolverine feats is cogent, because there's an opportunity to telegraph. JUST LIKE in your scan. That's the root of your problem. It's quite utterly galling to have to patronize you like this. That character telegraphed. The same excuse you love throwing at other characters because you fear that other scans deconstruct your ham-fisted interpretations of Superman's scans ABSOLUTELY applies to your scan.
Arbitrarily switching from 20 ft to 10 ft does not somehow rationalize the idiocy behind the original statement and contradiction.
Originally posted by h1a8Cyclops' optic blast travels at light speed. Christ.
It's only impressive if both Cyclops beam travels at light speed and Wolverine turned around AFTER the beam was fired.
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
In your silly pathetic scan you cannot see whether he he only started moving his hand when it is instantly fired or after it is instantly fired. Superman's eyes start lighting up and the panel's focus cuts away from whatever the character is doing. For you to assume he cannot be moving at that time or between the transition from panel 1 to panel 2 is a completely atrocious assumption.You obviously are aware of why your criticisms of those Wolverine feats is cogent, because there's an opportunity to telegraph. JUST LIKE in your scan. That's the root of your problem. It's quite utterly galling to have to patronize you like this. That character telegraphed. The same excuse you love throwing at other characters because you fear that other scans deconstruct your ham-fisted interpretations of Superman's scans ABSOLUTELY applies to your scan.
Arbitrarily switching from 20 ft to 10 ft does not somehow rationalize the idiocy behind the original statement and contradiction. Cyclops' optic blast travels at light speed. Christ.
You can't telegraph an eye beam. Doesn't matter if your eyes are glowing. Think about it. If your hand was indestructible and Superman's eyes were glowing at you, would you be able to block his blast? Hell no! Why? Because you have no idea when they are coming out. He can have his eyes glowing for exactly 7.683 seconds before he fires. If you raise your hand too early he will see this and not purposely fire into your indestructible hand but rather another place on your body.
The writer clearly wanted to show that Dude can CASUALLY react to light speed attacks.
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
^ Don't be amnesiac. Wolverine has telegraphed Cyclops' optic blasts. Thor has telegraphed Gladiator's and Count Nefaria's eye beams. Batman and his progeny have telegraphed Superman's eyebeams. The character telegraphed the shot in your scan.
Cyclops raises his hand to his visor to fire. That's like pointing and shooting. Plus his beams aren't light speed.
Are you saying Thor doesn't have light speed reflexes from 10ft away or more?
Batman and his protege dodged before the fire (not after). Dodging before the fire and blocking a beam with a small target (the hand) after the fire is two different things.
I just proved that there was no telegraph in my scan. You just didn't understand the proof.
Lastly, u r using "telegraphed" wrong. The person who initiates the attack is the telegrapher. The defender is not.
