Especially by the thread starters situation.
Sundipped AND bloodlusted? Thanos becomes cosmic paste.
Originally posted by supremthor
no weapons and allowed.This is a pissed of superman. like he just saw thanos kill lois in the worst way. superman has taken a one hour sun bath. his out to kill pure an simple
Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
Especially by the thread starters situation.
Sundipped AND bloodlusted? Thanos becomes cosmic paste.
Meh, Thanos doesn't go that easy to anyone. Superman's "bloodlust" is overblown in comics, IMO. He doesn't actually get "more powerful" he just cares a hell of a lot less. Basically, this means fighting almost intelligently in comics, but I can't do anything ridiculous like bench a ton just because I get mad. Superman doesn't get more powerful, he becomes a bastard.
Sundipped is a different story. When Superman actually flies into the sun, he gets crazy style powerful. As I said before, it's his ultimate last resort. Even the Cythonna fight wasn't really "dipped" Supes, he was merely NEAR the sun. As far as has been exhibited, it's two completely different things. Going into it kicks him up an extra notch or two, it's pure antiscience madness. For that reason, I'd give Superman the edge of fights. 7/10, Thanos is still hella tough and hella powerful.
Normally, I'd give Thanos about the same odds. Their strengths are both ridiculously high to the point that there's no real difference. Who's stronger? Supes has better feats, but Thanos has KOed a LOT of people. He has proven time and time again that he can punch out pretty much anything that isn't a high end cosmic being. His raw blasting power is immense, and he has exhibited telepathy in the past. I have no idea what he did to Warlock the first time they met, but it looked a LOT like life force draining. He's more versatile than many give him credit for. Couple that with his squeaky clean speedblitzer record and Superman is simply outmatched.
And no one answered my Dominus question... Do his powers work better on more powerful people, or is that someone else?
^ THANK YOU! Jeez. Superman fanboys just don't give up. When Thanos said in the Marvel Superheroes game that Thanos Reigns, he wasn't kidding. Just because Supes doesn't care, and is sundipped doesn't make him all powerful, becaus THANOS IS AS CLOSE TO OMNIPOTENCE AS IT COMES IN THE MARVEL UNIVERSE! You can't screw with the Marvel Cosmics. They are TOO POWERFUL. Somebody once told me that Superman could take Galactus, when Galactus would put him on a grill and invite the Marvel Universe to bring buns and ketchup.
Originally posted by Marcus4600
^ THANK YOU! Jeez. Superman fanboys just don't give up. When Thanos said in the Marvel Superheroes game that Thanos Reigns, he wasn't kidding. Just because Supes doesn't care, and is sundipped doesn't make him all powerful, becaus THANOS IS AS CLOSE TO OMNIPOTENCE AS IT COMES IN THE MARVEL UNIVERSE! You can't screw with the Marvel Cosmics. They are TOO POWERFUL. Somebody once told me that Superman could take Galactus, when Galactus would put him on a grill and invite the Marvel Universe to bring buns and ketchup.
Awesomely enough, I said Sundipped Supes beats Thanos. 😄
Originally posted by Dizzle
Who's stronger? Supes has better feats, but Thanos has KOed a LOT of people.
what better feats does he have? He's the most popular character in comics, and his hallmark power is his strength, yet it seems to me that his best strength showings (pushing warworld -- which is < earth moon size -- while sundipped, tugging 1/3 of the moon) are vastly lower than thanos'.
Thanos smashed a planet prior to a 10x+ power upgrade, went toe to toe in a physical battle with an entity that subsequently almost killed full-power galactus (tyrant), smacks around power gem wielders, and carries comets around in bouquets.
He's also never been hurt by anyone less than a skyfather, destroyed a universe-consuming rot with a blast of cosmic energy that shook the universe, and beat a reality-warping cube-being with ease (Maker/Beyonder).
How does superman, even sundipped, HURT thanos? Punching him does no good; even if you cause any damage, he can just put his molecules right back together...
Wait hold on, next superman fanboys are going to tell us that superman can beat tyrant(normal), no wait Atum The God-Eater, no that's not it's Mistress Death yep that's the next thread superman can beat mistress death 😄.
Thanos crumb stomps the sh** out of superman, energy superman, sun-dipped superman all will lose in the end. Thanos 10/10 then turns superman into his own personal lap dog.
I didn't feel like continuing to argue yesterday, but I do today.
Originally posted by leonidas
it was shown prior to that that the thrusters can move it at c. maybe avalon has the scan. i'm pretty sure it was him who showed it the first time.
I have the comic. I don't see light speed mentioned anywhere. All I see is b13 saying to turn thrusters on AFTER superman has started pushing, and also stating that warworld is in a position of "delicate balance."
Originally posted by leonidas
yet thanos had to unleash planet destroying might to take down this lowly cl40? please . . . and where does it say it wa sa strength feat? thanos used only strength to smash that planet? no 'power'? well?
Strength!=durability. Drax has always had insane durability. He flies around in space and survives the explosion of stars.
As for whether this is a strength feat, the comic shows them in a physical struggle, then shows the planet being destroyed. They don't say thanos "unleashed his cosmic energy." I think it's only sensible to assume that the planet is destroyed by the physical battle.
Originally posted by leonidas
and you can't prove thanos's was a strength feat either. so, meh.
In brb bills feat, it says he is UNLEASHING THE POWER OF STORMBREAKER, he then flies in with stormbreaker flaming and the planet is shown blowing up.
In the thanos feat, it shows thanos and drax wrestling each other and states that the planet is blown up from the fight. This might not be absolute solid 100% proof, but it's pretty close. If they meant to say that thanos let loose a blast of energy, or a nova attack, why wouldn't they show that instead of a fistfight?
They show
fistfight
->
planet smashed to pieces.
Clear implication there.
Originally posted by leonidas
eternity has no weight, eh? well, seeing as how eternity is the sum of EVERYTHING in the universe, i'd disagree with you on that as well . . . and true, we don't know how heavy, but the allusion is pretty clear -- he's really heavy.
How do you know that eternity is the sum of everything? Eternity is an abstract concept. I could just as easily say it's the sum of nothing. You have no indication of how heavy it is relative to, say, the moon. And we have seen ww and sm straining to move the moon (along with mm).
We also have black adam smashing through spectre's head on one occasion. Does this mean BA can smash the universe? The sum of everything?
Originally posted by leonidas
yet he still wants to avoid the conflict . . .
And? You avoid things for a number of reasons. I avoid ice cream and candy. Hardly means I'm scared it will beat me in a fistfight. For someone who has repeatedly taken the position that you can't over-interpret a few words from a single comic, you sure seem caught up on thanos saying a single time that he avoids the hulk -- when he has on numerous other occassions literally treated him like a bug.
Originally posted by leonidas
he ko'd ben with power. not a strength feat. who knows if the planet destruction was strength or power. he may well have stalemated thor for a while, but by your own admission, a much weaker being can fight and appear to do well against a much stronger being. hell, sabra was beating the crap out of hulk and she's less than half his strength.
He flicks his fingers, there's a big "WHAM" in the comic, then Thing goes flying unconscious to the ground. Marvel says, "You've knocked him out with a flick of your fingers!" How is this not a strength feat? Marvel says "flick of fingers"; he does not say "energy blast."
My position is that weaker beings can survive and do reasonably well, sometimes very well, in physical battles against powerful enemies. But my position is not that they can run right up to a vastly stronger enemy, and start smacking them around. When spider-man fights and beats rhino, he does not just run up and get into a slug fest. When a character DOES just run up and get into a slugfest, and does very well, this is a clear indication that two characters are comparable in strength. You already made this argument before, and never responded to my counter.
Originally posted by leonidas
if it granted infinite strength, why didn't thor clean his clock?
Err, because thanos is the most durable non-cosmic in the cosmic universe.... and has taken blows (energy or physical) from other entities with essentially limitless power (beyonder, tyrant, etc).
You wonder why thor didn't clean his clock because you think thanos is thor-level. I have no such problems becasue I think he's vastly higher than thor level. You're the one who should be puzzled, not me.
Originally posted by leonidas
what this means? so you're what, marvel's spokeman now? translating their artifacts for us poor unfortunates not clever enough to get it?
If reading marvel's text, and reciting it essentially word-for-word on this board, makes me marvel's spokesman, then I suppose I am.
<<He flicks his fingers, there's a big "WHAM" in the comic, then Thing goes flying unconscious to the ground. Marvel says, "You've knocked him out with a flick of your fingers!" How is this not a strength feat? Marvel says "flick of fingers"; he does not say "energy blast.">>
we may be thinkning of different fights. spidey sees it and says he ko'd thing without working up a sweat. is that the one you're talking about?
<<As for whether this is a strength feat, the comic shows them in a physical struggle, then shows the planet being destroyed. They don't say thanos "unleashed his cosmic energy." I think it's only sensible to assume that the planet is destroyed by the physical battle. >>
there's only one flashback-type pic hardly a good look at the fight. in any event, interpret as you will, i'll interpret as i will.
<<How do you know that eternity is the sum of everything? Eternity is an abstract concept. I could just as easily say it's the sum of nothing. You have no indication of how heavy it is relative to, say, the moon. And we have seen ww and sm straining to move the moon (along with mm). >>
i was using marvel's eternity as a comparison. but i think it's rather clear (clear implication to use your words) that eternity in the dc sense was meant to be very heavy -- specially as he prefaces with -- they are 2 of the mightiest beings in the universe.
<<And? You avoid things for a number of reasons. I avoid ice cream and candy. Hardly means I'm scared it will beat me in a fistfight. For someone who has repeatedly taken the position that you can't over-interpret a few words from a single comic, you sure seem caught up on thanos saying a single time that he avoids the hulk -- when he has on numerous other occassions literally treated him like a bug.>>
he;d never fought savage hulk, whom he likened to champion with the gem, incidentally. i don't think the comparion was accidental. thanos also knew he couldn't beat champ with physical power. another telling allusion when he had hulk in mind? again, read into it what you will. for me it was pretty clear he was likening savage hulk to the champion.
<<If reading marvel's text, and reciting it essentially word-for-word on this board, makes me marvel's spokesman, then I suppose I am.>>
does it actually say somewhere that a wielder is given access to infinite strength? it may and i may simply be forgetting.
<<My position is that weaker beings can survive and do reasonably well, sometimes very well, in physical battles against powerful enemies. But my position is not that they can run right up to a vastly stronger enemy, and start smacking them around. When spider-man fights and beats rhino, he does not just run up and get into a slug fest. When a character DOES just run up and get into a slugfest, and does very well, this is a clear indication that two characters are comparable in strength. You already made this argument before, and never responded to my counter.>>
sabra WAS vastly weaker. MAYBE half as strong and she WAS smacking the crap out of him. not sure what this 'counter' is that i didn't respond to. my position is that fights are not the best way to judge relative strengths because in comics, writers and artists will usually illustrate or depict a fight scene with us the readers in mind, so even if someone IS much stronger, a fight can still be made to look good for readers. spidey PUNCHED out firelord. wolverine is another perfect example. he fought bare knuckles with roughhouse who is perhaps cl100, and did VERY well, smacking him over the place. he's stood h2h with hulk and tigershark. non-savage hulk BEAT the crap out of glads, and non-savage hulk is no where near savage or his feats, or even gladiator's feats. there are many other examples that i'm sure you yourself can come up with.
How about this...
- Most powerful : Thanos
- Strongest : Superman
- Fastest : Superman very easily
- Smartest : equal, Thanos is very cunning and Superman is very smart
- Durability : roughly equal, with an advantage for Thanos.
My vote still goes to Superman, after a long and hard fight. I know the Thanos defenders don't like it, but Superman could very well speedblitz Thanos, 200 mega ultraüberpowerful superhaymakers in two or three seconds... if Thanos won't feel that, I give up.
Originally posted by who?-kid
How about this...- Most powerful : Thanos
- Strongest : Superman
- Fastest : Superman very easily
- Smartest : equal, Thanos is very cunning and Superman is very smart
- Durability : roughly equal, with an advantage for Thanos.My vote still goes to Superman, after a long and hard fight. I know the Thanos defenders don't like it, but Superman could very well speedblitz Thanos, 200 mega ultraüberpowerful superhaymakers in two or three seconds... if Thanos won't feel that, I give up.
Powerful isn't really qualitative... It's way too general. In terms of energy blasts, "cosmic flames" have proven to be insanely powerful. Thanos is an absolute beast of an energy projecter as well. For that, I really have no idea who would win in a straight up, DBZ style blasting fest.
And again, even with his lack of real speed feats, raw speed has NEVER been used to beat Thanos. There's no precedent, but he HAS beaten speedsters before. I don't think speedblitz is really an option.
Strength is again up for grabs. A good number of Thanos's strength feats aren't exactly strength feats. Blowing up a planet wasn't really clear in terms of methods. Could he have shattered it? Possibly. Did he use only punches? Who knows. Thanos, though he was using fists against Drax, also uses his energy blasts very frequently.
Thanos never stood up to Tyrant. Tyrant smacked him around terribly, and Thanos was using Tyrant's own power against him. It wasn't just Thanos, and therefore isn't really an applicable feat.
The WM Thor w/ Gem fight was actually almost even. Thanos had a small edge, but still used tech to put him down. It's a pretty good showing, but it didn't show him "smacking around gem wielders" by any stretch. Against Champion, he outsmarted him, plain and simple. And he used his ship's forcefield. Thanos really almost never operates with just himself, he's always got tech working for him somehow. In just pure strength, Superman's feats are simply more impressive. But they're both strong to the point that it really doesn't matter anyway.
And if Supes really needs to hurt Thanos, his flame things have, once again, proven to be very powerful. He's also strong enough to eventually damage Thanos, though a slugfest probably would end up in Thanos's favor more than not. Superman's advantages are speed and speed alone, basically. But he's at least comparable in every other category, so it really tips the scale to his side, IMO.
thanos and ss are much different foes for superman. ss's shown a much broader range of energy manipulation. in general, thanos blasts things nd destroys them. slade showed a good scan of thanos healing someone, but that still doesn't indicate he has the level of energy control that ss has -- ie -- that he could fire off blasts of kryptonite or red solar radiation.
playing into character, thanos would (attempt to) overwhelm supes with sheer destrctive power and strength. ss attacks supes at his weaknesses. ss just happens to be well suited to beat superman while i think supes would put up a better fight against thanos than ss does (even though there is a large contingent that says ss jobs to thanos.)
Originally posted by leonidas
we may be thinkning of different fights. spidey sees it and says he ko'd thing without working up a sweat. is that the one you're talking about?
I'm talking about this. Flick of fingers. KO. Affirmation by Captain Marvel. This is before at least 10x amp. Probably closer to 100x amp.
http://img23.imageshack.us/my.php?loc=img23&image=thingie3sm.jpg
You think any superman level hero is going to KO the thing with a flick of his fingers? At 1/100th strength?
Originally posted by leonidas
there's only one flashback-type pic hardly a good look at the fight. in any event, interpret as you will, i'll interpret as i will.
Fine. But your interpretation makes no sense. THey show a fistfight with chunks of the planet flying all over the place. Then planet explodes and drax is KO'd. This isn't a hard interpretation.
Originally posted by leonidas
he;d never fought savage hulk, whom he likened to champion with the gem, incidentally. i don't think the comparion was accidental. thanos also knew he couldn't beat champ with physical power. another telling allusion when he had hulk in mind? again, read into it what you will. for me it was pretty clear he was likening savage hulk to the champion.
And? Aren't you the one who has consistently stated that a few words mean nothing in the face of actual feats? Thanos has crushed hulk on numerous occassions.
Originally posted by leonidas
does it actually say somewhere that a wielder is given access to infinite strength? it may and i may simply be forgetting.
Yes. And I've posted scans of this, from a vareity of sources, time and time again.
Originally posted by leonidas
my position is that fights are not the best way to judge relative strengths because in comics, writers and artists will usually illustrate or depict a fight scene with us the readers in mind, so even if someone IS much stronger, a fight can still be made to look good for readers.
If you're not going to use fights, what are you going to use? If anything, fights are the best test. Everything else is merely intellectual. What matters is how much strength you can pack in a punch, not how much you can push.
And even in the latter department, superman is vastly outclassed. He maxes out at 1 earth moon while sundipped. Unless you take a completely bizarre interpretation of this pic:
http://img173.imageshack.us/my.php?loc=img173&image=tha14wz.jpg (do you see any cosmic energy blasts?)
Thanos at < 1/10 of his current strength is vastly, vastly stronger than superman.
