Originally posted by Flame On!!
This is actually true and again I say the problem is the writers, things conflict in Marvel all the time various creation myths exist with evidence read Thor 291 - 300 for another version of how MU came into existance.Cannon in comics is almost impossible and writers and comics conflict all the time it's not retconn it's poor continuity. In fact you are both right and you are both wrong.
🙂
- FO!!
are you my sock . . .? you sound a lot like me . . .
😖hifty:
Originally posted by Howard_Jones
That if someone gives two options on a possibility, it does not mean that they are one in the same.If something soft hits my head, it could be my cat, a piece of bread, a nerf football, etc.
Yes but hes not saying the energies of creation are either the Big Bang or the Phoenix Force.
He says Galan was transformed by the energies of creation. CALL IT (the energies) the Big Bang or the Phoenix Force.
Once again options for what they want to call those energies, NOT options for what the listener wants to decide those energies are.
Phoenix and Big Bang are equated here by Reed. Just as they are throughout continuity.
Originally posted by xmarksthespot
The Beyonder is boring. The Phoenix is boring. High level cosmics are boring. I don't see why anyone gives a flying f*ck which one can destroy more universes? Who cares? They're usually poorly characterised because writers think readers are dumb enough to go "Oooh ahhh so powerful... sparkly." like stoned teenagers playing with aluminium foil. They're next to useless on these forums because there's no one to use them against. Except for other boring high level cosmics.Squirrel Girl ftw.
Actually true but these guys enjoy arguing with each other, whoever you are.
- FO!!
Mr Master. All of those scans you posted were handled previously. Why have you swamped this thread with them instead of arguing the point that was being debated? 😖hifty:
If i make a thread about each of these big Phoenix issues right now, will you agree to join me in each one and ONLY argue or present scans or points relevant to the threads issue?
Id like to start off with the M'kraan incident. What do you say? 🙂
Come on Emmie! Im not going to debate with you anymore until you agree to have this out one issue at a time where the rules are no scans irrelevant to the specific thread topic and the same goes for posts.
We wont move on to a new thread and of course a new Phoenix issue until one side cannot counter the others points with anything new. When that happens the other side must agree never to bring up said issues again unless new evidence has come to light.
Do you agree MrM? 🙂
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Come on Emmie! Im not going to debate with you anymore until you agree to have this out one issue at a time where the rules are no scans irrelevant to the specific thread topic and the same goes for posts.We wont move on to a new thread and of course a new Phoenix issue until one side cannot counter the others points with anything new. When that happens the other side must agree never to bring up said issues again unless new evidence has come to light.
Do you agree MrM? 🙂
How do you expect to argue anything ?
When proof has been brought to your attention and you simply ignore it.
The Mkraan issue is a dead horse.
You KNOW Phoenix NEEDED the rest of the X-Men or else the feat was impossible, yet you'll compute some gibberish like "it was moral support" or some other excuse.
Originally posted by Mr Master
How do you expect to argue anything ?When proof has been brought to your attention and you simply ignore it.
The Mkraan issue is a dead horse.
You KNOW Phoenix NEEDED the rest of the X-Men or else the feat was impossible, yet you'll compute some gibberish like "it was moral support" or some other excuse.
Well lets take it to a thread then. Do you agree to abide by the rules?
Originally posted by Mr Master
How do you expect to argue anything ?When proof has been brought to your attention and you simply ignore it.
The Mkraan issue is a dead horse.
You KNOW Phoenix NEEDED the rest of the X-Men or else the feat was impossible, yet you'll compute some gibberish like "it was moral support" or some other excuse.
GS is a computer? You mean he'll state some gibberish... Yes he probably will! I say give him the chance to do it or are you scared?
- FO!!
Originally posted by Flame On!!
GS is a computer? You mean he'll state some gibberish... Yes he probably will! I say give him the chance to do it or are you scared?- FO!!
I guess he is 😄
I know for certain that if i truly thought my arguments were superior and better supported and my opponent was full of sh*t that id like to see highlighted, then id jump at the chance to face them in a one on one thread. 😉
Originally posted by GalacticStormI like the idea of the two of you having a one-on-one thread, one that is LOCKED out to everyone else, except the two of you. Both of you start your arguments from scratch, and the rest of us watch from the sidelines.
Come on Emmie! Im not going to debate with you anymore until you agree to have this out one issue at a time where the rules are no scans irrelevant to the specific thread topic and the same goes for posts.We wont move on to a new thread and of course a new Phoenix issue until one side cannot counter the others points with anything new. When that happens the other side must agree never to bring up said issues again unless new evidence has come to light.
Do you agree MrM? 🙂
I for one would like to see definitive, on-panel proof of:
1. Phoenix directly creating Galactus
2. LT being inferior to Phoenix
My opinions on the following are:
--------------------------------------
1. There is NO on-panel proof of the Phoenix playing ANY role in Galactus origin. You've stated many times that Phoenix 'healed' the M'Kraan Crystal, and saved reality. When I look at 'Adventures of X-Men' #12, all I see is the Crystal blowing up. Where was the saving? I see a 'sentience of the universe' speaking to Galan...and in 'Thanos' #3, that sentience is CLEARLY shown to be Eternity.
I think a lot of your 'evidence' stems from bios, which are NOT backed up by on-panel evidence...and are in fact written by Jeff Christiansen of marvunapp.com, who happens to share your interpretation of those events. But just because he views it the way you do, doesn't make it canon.
I'm sure you've read X-Men editor Andy Schmidt's comments about the Phoenix, (and hopefully my kind-hearted thread directed at you 😄) , and all I can say is that if comes down to a geek with a website versus an actual X-Men editor, I will believe the editor.
--------------------------------------
2. As for the Phoenix's so-called ability to 'humble' LT, as you've contended...you are absolutely wrong.
LT is not an abstract...and not a 'fundamental force of the universe'.
In your previous arguments, you've used this image as proof that LT is one of those beings that will be replaced by humanity, ultimately leading to your proof of the Phoenix Force's supposed superiority to LT:
Note the word ACCESS. 😱
LT accesses the fundamental forces of the universe...he is not one of them. He is above them, as being the cosmic judge, and protector of the multiverse.
Why he is shown at all on page 19 of that book is just totally beyond me...it's more of a sign of ignorance of the part of the writer(s)...however the editor did seem to catch it, and appropriately insert the word 'access'.
So GS, I respectfully ask you to yield, right now. 😱
You've been proven wrong. Phoenix is NOT above LT. I don't care what you believe about the abstracts, but she is definitely NOT above LT.
So yield now!
With new material becoming available all the time and roles and character status continually redefined, opinions and views of such characters can change.
Your problem LS is that due to the many many months since you have engaged me in debate and i therefore presume its been many months since you've cared to read y posts, you are addressing me with an outdated perspective of mine in mind. 😬
It is not my opinion that Phoenix directly created Galactus. In fact if you'd bothered to read this very thread you'd see i havent said that. What i have said is that Phoenixes foiling of Dwellers plans meant that Galan made it to Eternity who in turn directed him to the cosmic egg, where he was then transformed into Galactus. Not by Eternity because the egg was where Eternity himself was formed, but by the energies of creation, the very Big Bang which continuity dictates is the Phoenix Force.
Noone can deny that without Phoenixes actions in the previous reality that Galen would have died.
Noone can deny that the energies of creation, the Big Bang is Phoenix as thats continuity and as such if it is they who transformed Galen into Galactus, then Galactus was indeed formed from the Phoenix power.
On panel Phoenix giving Galan time to make it to Eternity is depicted. Im not saying she did it with that in mind, that was just one of the results.
The Cosmic egg is a previous state of the Big Bang and on panel the Egg is shown expanding out into the creation event.
Phoenix being the Big Bang is depicted on panel and stated on panel.
As for your speculation about the errors of X-men Forever, it is just that and it is unsupported on panel.
LT is grouped together as one of the cosmics affected by the replacement process in issue 1 pg 19 as you've noted, but also pg 21 of issue 3 and pg 16 of issue 6 so him being affected wasnt a one off error in a single issue. It was the idea proposed in that title. So in light of that your weak argument based on your ignorance of these other showings and the inclusion of the word "access" is quite soundly laid to rest.
However while as far as the comic shows LT does indeed get replaced each cycle it is my view after many intelligent debates with the one and only Illadelph that as this process is a part of the natural order which he strives to preserve and enforce LT being affected by the process doesnt necessarily place Phoenix above him. They are all just playing out their roles.
The same however doesnt apply for the abstracts who unlike LT are of the universe, that the Phoenix power spawns. Plus Phoenix has demonstrated on panel she wields more power than that contained in the universe by manipulating it and all its composed of down to the atomic and materialising it in her palm. That and various other feats place her above the abstracts.
With all in mind, next time please take a step back and assess and comprehend a situation before foolishly charging into the fray.
Your smugness was unjustified.
You are dismissed my old friend 🙂
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Mr Master. All of those scans you posted were handled previously.
Correct,
you were handled previously, are still being handled.
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Why have you swamped this thread with them instead of arguing the point that was being debated?
Nice try Pino,
but I have argued and won all of our debates, you posting this gibberish now because you have nothing left.
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
If i make a thread about each of these big Phoenix issues right now, will you agree to join me in each one and ONLY argue or present scans or points relevant to the threads issue?
It's useless, your a self absorbed individual and cannot except anything that even slightly disagrees with you.
And anyways, you been talking so much shit that you don't deserve civility now.
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Id like to start off with the M'kraan incident. What do you say?
You been burned in that subject over and over again.
That right there proves your an intransigent fella, that will always cry over split milk.
Originally posted by Lord S
I like the idea of the two of you having a one-on-one thread, one that is LOCKED out to everyone else, except the two of you. Both of you start your arguments from scratch, and the rest of us watch from the sidelines.I for one would like to see definitive, on-panel proof of:
1. Phoenix directly creating Galactus
2. LT being inferior to PhoenixMy opinions on the following are:
--------------------------------------
[b]1.
There is NO on-panel proof of the Phoenix playing ANY role in Galactus origin. You've stated many times that Phoenix 'healed' the M'Kraan Crystal, and saved reality. When I look at 'Adventures of X-Men' #12, all I see is the Crystal blowing up. Where was the saving? I see a 'sentience of the universe' speaking to Galan...and in 'Thanos' #3, that sentience is CLEARLY shown to be Eternity.I think a lot of your 'evidence' stems from bios, which are NOT backed up by on-panel evidence...and are in fact written by Jeff Christiansen of marvunapp.com, who happens to share your interpretation of those events. But just because he views it the way you do, doesn't make it canon.
I'm sure you've read X-Men editor Andy Schmidt's comments about the Phoenix, (and hopefully my kind-hearted thread directed at you 😄) , and all I can say is that if comes down to a geek with a website versus an actual X-Men editor, I will believe the editor.
--------------------------------------
2. As for the Phoenix's so-called ability to 'humble' LT, as you've contended...you are absolutely wrong.
LT is not an abstract...and not a 'fundamental force of the universe'.
In your previous arguments, you've used this image as proof that LT is one of those beings that will be replaced by humanity, ultimately leading to your proof of the Phoenix Force's supposed superiority to LT:
Note the word ACCESS. 😱
LT accesses the fundamental forces of the universe...he is not one of them. He is above them, as being the cosmic judge, and protector of the multiverse.
Why he is shown at all on page 19 of that book is just totally beyond me...it's more of a sign of ignorance of the part of the writer(s)...however the editor did seem to catch it, and appropriately insert the word 'access'.
So GS, I respectfully ask you to yield, right now. 😱
You've been proven wrong. Phoenix is NOT above LT. I don't care what you believe about the abstracts, but she is definitely NOT above LT.
So yield now! [/B]
Owned!
LS, always representing.
Originally posted by Mr Master
Correct,you were handled previously, are still being handled.
Nice try Pino,
but I have argued and won all of our debates, you posting this gibberish now because you have nothing left.
It's useless, your a self absorbed individual and cannot except anything that even slightly disagrees with you.
And anyways, you been talking so much shit that you don't deserve civility now.
You been burned in that subject over and over again.
That right there proves your an intransigent fella, that will always cry over split milk.
I'll take that as a concession then? 😄
All of those issues came to a standstill when i showed you on each why your interpretation couldnt possibly be the case.
At those points you went into loser mode and instead of addressing what id brought up started reposting the same defeated arguments again and again until my victorys had been lost under spam. 😬
Its cool. Lets go into this again, issue by issue once and for all to finally deal with this.
After this occurs the loser cannot bring up any of these points again without bringing something new to the table.
Each thread on a specific issue can only feature posts and scans on that issue
What do you say Emmie?
Whenever youre ready! 😱
The Phoenix Force getting OWNED!
THEN, the SHIP attacks the ACTUAL PHOENIX FORCE, the SHIP wants to drain the energy of the FORCE
"Impaled, Spitted, the PHOENIX writhes as it's LIFE is SUCKED OUT"
"It has never known PAIN of this magnitude, it SCREAMS"
"It's willfully TORTURING the PHOENIX" ..... am I imagining things, or is it's FIRE GOING OUT, the COLORS are FADING, like it's DYING"
"TRULY, the PHOENIX is BATTLING for IT'S LIFE against the sear of Light that is STRIPPING it's POWER AWAY"
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
What do you say Emmie?
Again,
emmie these NUTS Pino.
Lets do this Emmie lets settle this once and for all. Just me and you, no intervention and the loser is not allowed to mention any of those points again. What do you say? 🙂
Surely if you spanked me you could easily do again. For you to have spanked me you must have hit me with a point i couldnt find any evidence to counter. Surely its just a case of bringing that up again? 😖hifty:
