Originally posted by Nellinator
The original word translated as eternity does not mean forever. It does indicate a lengthy period of time however. But, the Bible teaches that at the end of this and after the final Judgement the unsaved will be utterly annihilated.Eze 28:19 All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more.
'Be' is better translated as 'become'.
'Never shalt thou be any more' is better translated 'you shall not be for ever.'Psa 37:20 But the wicked shall perish, and the enemies of the LORD shall be as the fat of lambs: they shall consume; into smoke shall they consume away.
Annihilation is still eternal punishment, because it is permanent.
A permanent punishment for a temporary action does not seem fair or just in my book.
Originally posted by Lord Urizen
[b]Annihilation is still eternal punishment, because it is permanent.A permanent punishment for a temporary action does not seem fair or just in my book. [/B]
Originally posted by Up In Flames...😐 All your reasons are religious hypocrisy and propaganda.
[QUOTE=8141663]Originally posted by Bardock42
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What if it was the devil that did it away with?
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------I could use two arguments against your question:
1. If it was the devil, that proves the existence of the spiritual realm, therefore proving God's existence.
2. Jesus says in the Bible (upon being accused of driving out demons because he was a demon) that the devil does not act against himself.Remember, the greatest trick the devil ever pulled was fooling the world that he doesnt exist.
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What if it was your own will?
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------If miracles were a matter of will, anyone would have power over everything, we would be able to things like fly or control our surroundings.
This is not the Matrix.
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What if it was luck?
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------Luck exists where there is the possibilty of various outcomes. There is no chance at all in medical terms that such a disease can go away.
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God is not the only explanation.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------Did He not create us? Does He not possess the power to overwhealm anything?
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And if it was "God", why should it be the Christian God? Why not Allah? Or Zeus?
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------Any Muslim-turned-Christian or Greek-turned-Christian will tell you why not.
Originally posted by Up In FlamesIsn't that what Martin Luther did?
Pick up a Bible and read it thoroughly. I assure you there's no need to seek any further than that for the truth.
[QUOTE=8148059]Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
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you're a body builder so does that earthly desire condem you to hell?
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We are required by God to live up to His standards and to fulfill his purposes, but we are given the right to enjoy life as long as it doesnt come into conflict with God's rules. And as far as I know, there's nothing sinful about building a muscular physique. Lee Haney would agree with me on this.
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I don't think you have the truth
what does the second sentence mean
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You don't "think" or you dont "know"? Like I said, you have to be absolutely sure about atheism if you want to go down that path.
The second sentence refers to the origin of Truth.
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the Toa is the way
truth is subjective
I'm living my life as we speak
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If you prefer that, fine by me. At least be sure about what you believe in.
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It seems that Satan and his armies aren't the tight @ssed, prudish, judgmental, overbearing people that you seem to think will be in heaven (you heaven sounds like a hell to me)
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Deception is the key to Satan's success. Dont be fooled.
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my religion is no worse than yours
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What do you call your religion again?
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HARUHI WILL SMITE YOU FOR DENYING HER POWER
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The power of God will reign forever and ever. Amen.
[QUOTE=8159189]Originally posted by lord xyz
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All your reasons are religious hypocrisy and propaganda.
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My reasons reflect that I know what Im talking about, and so do you. People have mistaken the definition of hypocrisy. They think a hypocrite is one who freely speaks the truth. Correction: a hypocrite is a person who speaks of righteousnous and continues on their own destructive path.
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Isn't that what Martin Luther did?
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Yeah, so what are you trying to make of that?
Originally posted by Up In Flames
You don't "think" or you dont "know"? Like I said, you have to be absolutely sure about atheism if you want to go down that path.
The second sentence refers to the origin of Truth.
I'm not really an athiest I just don't care if God is real or not. Life goes on and has been doing so for a very long time. If God is real then he's doing a fine job by my measure and if he doesn't exist then nature is doing a fine job. In practice there is no difference between an unknowable God and a nonexistant God.
Originally posted by Up In Flames
Deception is the key to Satan's success. Dont fooled.
A true master of deception may make himself whomever he wishes in the eyes of others he can even make himself seem pure and divine.
Originally posted by Up In Flames
Whats your religion again?
you declared it to be athiesm
Originally posted by Up In Flames
The power of God will reign forever and ever. Amen.
Haruhi Suzumiya managed to destroy the universe without effort because she was pissed. She also either created or reordered the universe in an instant.
God needed six days to make one planet.
I see a distinct advantage in the power demonstrated by Haruhi.
The evidence for Haruhi (a fictional character) is just as strong as for your God. The evidence mainly being a bunch of books (7 for Haruhi and 1 anthology for God).
Originally posted by Up In Flames
We are required by God to live up to His standards and to fulfill his purposes, but we are given the right to enjoy life as long as it doesnt come into conflict with God's rules. And as far as I know, there's nothing sinful about building a muscular physique. Lee Haney would agree with me on this.
Vanity is a form of self-idolatry, in which one rejects God for the sake of one's own image, and thereby becomes divorced from the graces of God.
Originally posted by KingTut
I am an atheist and I've been one my whole life. Personally, the argument used by many religious people that you have to believe in god without proof that god exists (to show morality) is a weak one.Here is a site with really good arguements in favor of athiesm: http://godisimaginary.com/
I know that many religious people here on this thread won't bother with it, but keep in mind that I went all the way through this thread and read all of your arguements just to be fair.
Now that's what Im talking about. If you're looking for a Christian to debate with, you've come to the right place.
I've only read the beginning about prayer, but I came here quickly to state my side of the argument.
First of all, prayer requires faith. Faith requires belief. Belief requires trust. Trust requires love. If you dont love God, you dont trust Him. If you dont trust Him, you dont believe in Him. If you dont believe in Him, you are devoid of faith. If you are devoid of faith, He does not answer your prayers. Simple as that. Would you do something for somebody who does not ask sincerely? In the bible, you will read of many prophets who had to endure hardship before receiving the grace of God. The best example: Job. He had his faith put to the ultimate test when God allowed the Devil to bring him suffering. You must know that whenever you ask help from God, he waits for you to take the first step before assisting.
Second of all, when God answers a prayer, he either says "Yes" or "No". He knows whats best for us and will make decisions accordingly. You cant expect Him to say yes all the time because He does not do things that way.
As for the people with cancer, you need not worry about them if you're not willing to do anything about it yourself. Instead your prayer should be a bit more simple than that, like:
"Dear God, I thank you for this day you have given me. I thank for my life and the lives of everyone I love. I pray that you give me the wisdom and the courage to do the right thing. Help me be an honest person. Give me the strength to resist the devil's temptations. Forgive me for my sins, Jesus Christ. All these things I ask in your most precious name. Amen"
Its that simple. God is more concerned with changing your character than anything else. You wont find the Truth if you are not willing to listen to God.
Thats it for now. If you have further questions continue to post, I urge you.
Originally posted by Adam_PoE
Vanity is a form of self-idolatry, in which one rejects God for the sake of one's own image, and thereby becomes divorced from the graces of God.
Theres a difference between "I want to be strong and fit" and "Hey everybody, look at me. ME ME ME!"
I dont walk around with my shirt off.
[QUOTE=8161562]Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
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I'm not really an athiest I just don't care if God is real or not. Life goes on and has been doing so for a very long time. If God is real then he's doing a fine job by my measure and if he doesn't exist then nature is doing a fine job. In practice there is no difference between an unknowable God and a nonexistant God.
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There is a great difference between a lie and the truth. Lies are based on uncertainty while the truth is absolute.
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A true master of deception may make himself whomever he wishes in the eyes of others he can even make himself seem pure and divine.
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Wrong. A true master of deception tells the world that he does not exist. He puts it in the minds of people that there is no such thing as right and wrong. He tells you that money equals success. He tells you that if something you're doing is wrong, yet you enjoy it, you dont have to refrain from it. He tells you that man's wisdom is superior to God's wisdom.
A master of deception tells you that God does not exist.
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you declared it to be athiesm
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In that case, I still think its a cowardly religion.
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Haruhi Suzumiya managed to destroy the universe without effort because she was pissed. She also either created or reordered the universe in an instant.
God needed six days to make one planet.
I see a distinct advantage in the power demonstrated by Haruhi.
The evidence for Haruhi (a fictional character) is just as strong as for your God. The evidence mainly being a bunch of books (7 for Haruhi and 1 anthology for God).
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If your deity is the symbol of destruction, she has failed. My God loves. He loved the world so much that He gave His only begotten Son and whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
Originally posted by Up In FlamesWrong. A true master of deception tells the world that he does not exist. He puts it in the minds of people that there is no such thing as right and wrong. He tells you that money equals success. He tells you that if something you're doing is wrong, yet you enjoy it, you dont have to refrain from it. He tells you that man's wisdom is superior to God's wisdom.
A master of deception tells you that God does not exist.
A master of deception convince you that he was god (that why its deception).
Satan has never told people he doesn't exist and cannot argue that God doesn't exist as that would invalidate his own existance.
A true master of deception convinces people to follow subjective orders as an absolute truth.
Originally posted by Up In FlamesIf your deity is the symbol of destruction, she has failed. My God loves. He loved the world so much that He gave His only begotten Son and whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
you'll note she also managed to create a universe on her own (twice)
She once tried to destroy the world due to love (that so trumps killing your kid. 😛)
Originally posted by Up In Flames
Now that's what Im talking about. If you're looking for a Christian to debate with, you've come to the right place.I've only read the beginning about prayer, but I came here quickly to state my side of the argument.
First of all, prayer requires faith. Faith requires belief. Belief requires trust. Trust requires love. If you dont love God, you dont trust Him. If you dont trust Him, you dont believe in Him. If you dont believe in Him, you are devoid of faith. If you are devoid of faith, He does not answer your prayers. Simple as that. Would you do something for somebody who does not ask sincerely? In the bible, you will read of many prophets who had to endure hardship before receiving the grace of God. The best example: Job. He had his faith put to the ultimate test when God allowed the Devil to bring him suffering. You must know that whenever you ask help from God, he waits for you to take the first step before assisting.
Surely, it is not your argument that God has never regenerated the limbs of an amputee, because there has never been an amputee who believes, trusts, and has faith in God, and has sincerely asked Him to regenerated his limbs?
If this is not the case, then how do you explain why God has never regenerated the limbs of an amputee?
Originally posted by Up In Flames
Second of all, when God answers a prayer, he either says "Yes" or "No". He knows whats best for us and will make decisions accordingly. You cant expect Him to say yes all the time because He does not do things that way.As for the people with cancer, you need not worry about them if you're not willing to do anything about it yourself. Instead your prayer should be a bit more simple than that, like:
"Dear God, I thank you for this day you have given me. I thank for my life and the lives of everyone I love. I pray that you give me the wisdom and the courage to do the right thing. Help me be an honest person. Give me the strength to resist the devil's temptations. Forgive me for my sins, Jesus Christ. All these things I ask in your most precious name. Amen"
Its that simple. God is more concerned with changing your character than anything else. You wont find the Truth if you are not willing to listen to God.
Thats it for now. If you have further questions continue to post, I urge you.
Surely, Jesus is not a liar:
John 14:13-14"Whatever you ask in My name, that will I do, so that the Father may be glorified in the Son.
If you ask Me anything in My name, I will do it."
Matthew 7:7-11Ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you.
For everyone who asks receives, and he who seeks finds, and to him who knocks it will be opened.
Or what man is there among you who, when his son asks for a loaf, will give him a stone?
Or if he asks for a fish, he will not give him a snake, will he?
If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father who is in heaven give what is good to those who ask Him!
Matthew 17:20And He said to them, ". . . for truly I say to you, if you have faith the size of a mustard seed, you will say to this mountain, 'Move from here to there,' and it will move, and nothing will be impossible to you."
Matthew 18:19"Again I say to you, that if two of you agree on earth about anything that they may ask, it shall be done for them by My Father who is in heaven.
Originally posted by Up In Flames
[QUOTE=8161562]If your deity is the symbol of destruction, she has failed. My God loves. He loved the world so much that He gave His only begotten Son and whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
He loved the world so much that he burnt down two cities, flooded the entire world during Noah's ark, sent the Angel of Death to slaughter the first born sons of Egypt, and sent plagues to terrorize the non beleivers.
He also orders homosexuals and prostitutes to death
And anyone who does not obey gets sent to an eternity of hellfire and torment....
So your God is so loving he commits:
Destruction
Genocide
Torture
Murder
I prefer Symmetric's God.....
Originally posted by Up In Flames
My God loves. He loved the world so much that He gave His only begotten Son and whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
Iron Chariots. . . the idea that God would come to earth, take physical form and sacrifice Himself, to Himself, as a loophole for laws He created, in order to save us from His wrath—that defines a schizophrenic deity, not a benevolent one.
The notion that God had to jump through hoops instead of simply changing the law is patently absurd. Consider a similar dilemma in the movie "Coming to America," where James Earl Jones, as king, is explaining his objections about his son's non-traditional choice of a bride, to his wife. "It's tradition," he says, "and who am I to change tradition?" His wife poignantly responds, "I thought you were king."
Read this:
read this
Originally posted by Up In Flames
Read this:
"Dr. Rebecca Brown is one of several Christian authors who claim to have been involved with underground Satanic cults. Dr. Brown describes her experiences in books published by Jack Chick publications. Dr. Brown's claims are particularly extreme because she claims to have had physical contact with demons, devils and Satan himself."
I stopped right there
Originally posted by Lord Urizen
read this
"In contrast to objective rational thought, Christian thinking is centered in a Bible-oriented faith which extends far beyond simple optimistic everyday faith. Biblical faith believes the proclamations of only the Bible and strongly rejects other ways of thinking. A healthy, productive psyche is found in something fervent Christians are "not allowed" to do."
I stopped right there