Darth Revan vs Darth Bane

Started by Tortoise Herder9 pages

Um, Excuse me???? Where did I say Yoda<Revan???? As skilled as Revan was, it is VERY hard to imagine him competing with 800+ years (more or Less) of experience. You claimed that I could not tell the difference between OPTIONAL-TO-THE-GAME Sidequests and NECESSARY-TO-THE-GAME MAIN QUESTS!

I have proven you wrong. You have slandered me when I was making rational arguments and you were merely sniping at me for a convoluted and false reason. If you cannot be trusted to not start fights for no good reason, cannot be trusted to see past your own pride, than I believe that the Mods would like to here my Story.

Revan and the Hunt for the Star Maps:

Leland Chee has confirmed that Revan has taken the Light path through the journey to the Star Forge and defeated the Dark Lord Malak as a prodigal knight.

The Star Wars Databank, on the profile of Bastila Shan said the following:

The captive Revan underwent a memory wipe, and was given a new identity. This new persona was paired with Bastila Shan in the search for Darth Malak and the Star Forge. Bastila kept a wary eye on Revan, always alert at signs of the dark side. Such an awareness opened her to the dark side more than she intended. The quest for the Star Forge, which spanned worlds, kept Revan and Bastila working side-by-side, and thrust Bastila into difficult and challenging roles as a Jedi.

So as you can see, we see that the Ebon Hawk and her crew traveled to many of the planets and faced difficult tasks, while recruiting more characters, and doing many other things.

Even though gameplay is noncannon, most of the "actual" events and cutscenes are true. Tortoise Herder has provided events/trials that the Ebon Hawk and her crew faced, he is not saying that Revan was capable of doing "REVAN can do Master Speed and Force Drain in rapid succession....".

For example, Tortoise's examples of true events like the "The Wookiee Revolt" is proven in the profile of Zaalbar, from Databank:

She more than returned the favor -- when Zaalbar was captured by Gamorrean slavers in the deep sewers of the Taris Undercity, Mission was able to free him with the help of newfound Republic fugitive friends. Zaalbar accompanied Mission as she joined the hunt for Darth Malak and his sinister Star Forge plot. This galaxy-spanning quest would eventually bring Zaalbar back to Kashyyyk, where he was able to face his dark past once and for all.

By him dealing with his dark past once and for all, this proves that Zaalbar has dealt with Chuundar and Freyyr, which the LS decision results in the Wookie Revolt.

Thanks General. I appreciate the help.

My points are that:
1. There is definitive proof Revan did AT LEAST some of the quests that are optional ingame.
2. He was canon LS.
3. Darth Sexy needs to stop pulling excuses out of his ass that are useless and false.
4. The douchebag/dumbshit Darth Sexy needs to stop falsely insulting and slandering those that actually KNOW WHAT THE HECK THEY ARE TALKING ABOUT and needs to say "I'm Sorry."
5. Rational debate here, PLEASE. I have no grudge against those who believe Bane would win if they debate intelligently and Rationally. If somebody from EITHER side starts throwing insults for no good reason, than those of us who would like to actually debate INTELLIGENTLY are going to send you Elizabeth the Cat for Christmas.
6. In all the confusion, we have managed to get off topic, so let's get back ON topic.

General, I thank you again and I hope you enjoy this thread.

I know Revan's story jackass, I'm a Revan fan myself so I know his story backwards and forwards, so don't give me any of your shit just because you like including non canon material. Him killing Starkiller is NOT canon, it's an extra mission. Him talking to the sand people is NOT canon, it's just an extra mission. Learn the difference, schmuck.

I know Revan's story jackass, I'm a Revan fan myself so I know his story backwards and forwards, so don't give me any of your shit just because you like including non canon material. Him killing Starkiller is NOT canon, it's an extra mission. Him talking to the sand people is NOT canon, it's just an extra mission. Learn the difference, schmuck.

Sure, all the Dark Side decisions are non-canon, such as killing StarKiller. And yeah, some extra missions may not have been part of the story. But seeing Revan's impact on the galaxy and the general good of the Ebon Hawk and her crew, I see lots of quests actually done by Revan. I mean, they were doing everything so they can get to the Star Forge. They knew that it might be possible that doing so and so might result in finding the next Star Map.

Edit: DS, watch your mouth.

@ Tortoise Herder

Hey np! 😉

DARTH SEXY!!!!!!

GET YOUR HEAD OUT OF YOUR ASS AND LISTIN UP!

You see that list that I made on the last page that is 5 posts from the bottom, you know, 1+1+1+1+1? THAT IS THE BARE MINIMUM TO COMPLETE THE STORY ON LS!!!!!! YOU DO NOT NEED TO TELL ME THAT YOU DO NOT NEED TO DO IT, YOU GOD DAMNED JACKASS!

APPARENTLY I NEED TO MAKE IT IN 180 POINT FONT SO YOU CAN TELL THAT I DO KNOW WHAT needed or not to complete the game. WHAT I AM SAYING IS THAT YOU ARE BEING AN IDIOTIC JACKASS BY REPEATING THAT ANYTHING THAT IS NOT NEEDED TO COMPLETE THE MAIN QUEST IS NON-CANON! HK-47 and Juhani, TWO MAJOR CHARACTERS are not needed to complete the main story. So by your definition, they are NOT canon. That would be utter crap because they are included in pretty much any main site that covers the issue that you LOOK.

At the VERY least you addressed two of my claims, if only to disregard them for no good reason. I STATED MYSELF that Bendak is up in the air, but it has NOT been deemed Non-Canon that I am aware of. The encounter with the Sand People is, as far as I know, canon. If you can give me a definitive "No, it is not true." on anything, and I check it and it is legit, I will rescind that and make note of it. But seeing as how even an intelligent debate is outside your limits, I guess that would be expecting a little much of you.

And even if those two WERE untrue, you have yet to address the other points IN ANY WAY, SHAPE, OR FORM! You have yet to admit that most of the events I listed ARE Canon, you have yet to admit that I TOO know the bare minimum for continuation of the story, You have yet to admit that I know the story as well.

Keeping on insulting and cussing with no good reason is not debating. It is being a jackass. And if you wish to continue being a jackass, Darth Sexy, than get the hell off the site and let the rest of us debate rationally in peace.

You mentioned Starkiller which destroys your entire argument. If you wish to debate rationally, or debate at all(which you aren't capable of apparently), then get your facts straight and stop sounding like a jackass.

Darth Sexy, HOW does Bendak destroy my entire argument? Oh, that's right, even if it is false (on accident, as I am unaware of every move the guys who decide canon/noncanon do) there are plenty of other perfectly sane and reasonable arguments, and since you cannot do a rational debate, you will focus on the one that has a CHANCE of being noncanon and whine and ***** about it while ignoring the others because you cannot argue rationally.

In case you did not realise, I said Quote: "I said MYSELF that Bendak is up in the air, but he has not been declared noncanon THAT I AM AWARE OF!" unquote. I also invited you to show me SOURCES showing any of my claims that are false, and that after checking them, I would concede that and remove said point.

You have not shown me any such thing. Which in all probability mean that you do not have any which in all probability means that you have no idea if it is true or not but will continue to slander and mock me for no good reason because to do otherwise would to admit that you are wrong.

Just present a CREDIBLE SOURCE (and no, your pride is not a viable source) against me and I will concede the appropriate points. Unless of course you can't, because you have no credible sources. In which case DROP IT.

Tortoise Herder, chill down man.

Listen, any DARK SIDE DECISION taken by Revan is false seeing how Revan is light, and probably as a prodigal knight, only did Light things.

Darth Sexy, I thought you might want to listen to Tortoise. He does a point.

Indeed, I can curse, but I do not take pleasure in it, as it is crude and much less enjoyable than a rational debate. To my knowledge, Bendak has not been condemned noncanon, though if you know a source that says so, please post it so I can check it out and if it is not canon, than I will concede as much and remove it.

I would not have nearly as many problems with Darth Sexy save for the fact that he insults me and slanders me as inept, and simply denies anything I say no matter how disputable or indisputable it is. I can see that he could, with good reason, question my Bendak statement, though he denies EVERYTHING.

He declares my whole argument void simply because It is likely that the duel with Bandak was non-canon, while the rest of my argument as solid as any other argument.

My problem with Darth Sexy is that he is being a jackarse for no good reason and is harassing me no matter what arguments I make.

Originally posted by Tortoise Herder
Ok, I only recently discovered this thread, and due to some Damn F*cking stupid arguments, I have been forced to act.

Firstoff, Sithari, you say that power is more important than knowledge, when in reality, with most people we see, they are interdependant.

It Was Napoleon Bonaparte, a man who was heralded as the greatest General of his day, that said "General-in-chief must be guided by their own experience, or their genius. Tactics, evolutions, the duties and knowledge of an engineer or artillery officer, may be learned in treatises, but the science of strategy is only to be acquired by experience, and by studying the campaigns of all the great captains.
Gustavus Adolphus, Turenne, and Frederick, as well as Alexander, Hannibal, and Caesar have all acted upon the same principles. These have been -- to keep their forces united; to leave no weak part unguarded; to seize with rapidity on important points."

He also said: "Peruse again and again the campaigns of Alexander, Hannibal, Caesar, Gustavus Adolphus, Turenne, Engene, and Frederick. Model yourself upon them. This is the only means of becoming a great captain, and of acquiring the secret of the art of war. Your own genius will be enlightened and improved by this study, and you will learn to reject all maxiums foreign to the principles of these great commanders."
He makes it a point to study those who came before him to learn their advantages, their skills, their weaknesses etc. And LEARN from them.

And they also study things that could be helpful, like a man going into a duel to the death with swords might study human anatomy, as it helps him land a decisive blow to either kill/mortally wound his opponent.

He also emphasises the need for Experience. Bane was a member of the Gloom Walkers, a unit that DID make some quite impressive feats in combat. However, even when we consider his defacto command of said unit, he was in command of a single infantry unit.

Revan, on the other hand, took control of a army that had been driven from dozens (AT LEAST) of planets, and was heavily demoralized, low in experience etc. and, like Pilsudski at the Battle of Warsaw in the 1920's, he ROUTED the enemy and eventually destroyed him. This while managing to groom his army discreetly for his eventual return as a Sith.

He also would have been able to have a larger base of knowledge not only on the Force techniques, but also on combat, on leadership etc.

These could prove to be a far more powerful factor than we may know.

But in order to reach that generalship, he had to be powerful enough to reach it. And He Was.

FACT: He killed Mandalore the Ultimate in fair combat face to face.

FACT: He killed The One (The Black Rakata Cheiftan) after fighting his way through his warriors, a man whose reputation was so fierece that in a tribal civilization that was dedicated to war, whose Cheiftan had to have been a skilled warrior, that Said Cheiftan abdicated peacefully at the mere CHALLENGE of The One to duel him for the Cheiftan's position.

FACT: He defeated dozens of Sith soldiers and acolytes while they were being powered by BOTH the Star Forge and Bastilla's Battle Meditation, with minimum aid.

FACT: Singlehandedly defeated first Bastila and than Malak alone. The latter of whom was regenerated completely at least once by captive Jedi.

FACT: Kreia, who had no doubt worked with many powerful Jedi, described him as "Looking at the Heart of the Force." This is not completely quantifiable, but you have to keep in mind that this was in a Jedi Order that was far better trained that the PT ones, and who had the knowledge of Lore, techniques etc that had passed into the realm of myth by the time of the PT.

FACT: He walked on the surface of Malachor V, a planet that corrupted Jedi FROM THE ORBITING BATTLE. A planet that shattered Kreia's resistence withing seconds of her stepping on the planet.

FACT: Malak described him as being far more powerful in the Light than he ever was in Darkness.

FACT: He defeated Calo Nord, a bounty hunter who learned his trade with a bounty on his head by TOYING with his hunters before ruthlessly finishing them off. And apparently there were dozens of those who perished trying to collect said bounty. A man who is said never let a target survive.

FACT: He defeated Darth Bandon, the man judged to be the strongest out of a Sith order of likely HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS and trained by Malak himself.

FACT: He won his way up to the bloody Swoop Campionship of MANAAN, THE CAPITAL OF SWOOP RACING AFTER THE LIQUIDATION OF TARIS!!!!

FACT: He killed Bendak Starkiller, a Mandalorian duelist who killed so many people in death matches THERE WAS A BOUNTY PUT OUT ON HIS HEAD!!!! And that was BEFORE he rediscovered force sensitivity.

FACT: He succeeded in doing what almost no other had done, being one of the VERY VERY few to gain the Tusken Raider's trust and admiration to the point that he learned their history. This in a species that was still regarded to be only animals THOUSANDS of years afterwards.

FACT: He killed Selven, a woman who killed off the Ulgos of Taris, despite all their guards, droids, and security measures.

FACT: Darth Bane, the other member of the deathmatch, judged Revan's holocron to be far superior to the ENTIRETY of the resources avalible for teaching the Brotherhood of Darkness COMBINED!!!!

FACT: Bane said that he would not dare to TRY some of the rituals Revan had done, as they were simply too dangerous.

FACT: He killed Sherruk, a Mandalorian who had killed many Jedi, alongside his entire gang, WHEN HE WAS STILL IN THE EARLY STAGES OF ReDISCOVERING THE FORCE!!!!

Ok than, we also know that Zephiel is crap on medicine, as he does not realize there is a point to us shooting the crap out of his stupid arguments about the "Dark Side calming his situation."

I am sorry, but if somebody has their adrenaline going on for too long a period or for too intense a period, it can rupture! Period.

And that is in a normal human being. If Bane has all the orbalisks pumping in this fight, speed is key, as if he is delayed to long, he will die. Hell, if he wins but the fight has gone on too long he will STILL die.

Thus, Bane is on the clock. Not Revan. If Revan can hold out for long enough, even if he does not land a killing blow, he will still win.

So the real question is if Bane can breach Revan's defense and kill or mortally wound him before he kills himself or before Revan learns his weakpoint and kills him.

The Dark Side cannot calm one down. It FUELS RAGE. That is what it does. It has been mentioned as such repeatedly in the series.

So it gets the Heart going even FASTER. WHICH MEANS BANE HAS EVEN LESS TIME!!!!

So, barring a miracle, I would give this to Revan.

Sith'ari, Zephiel, get an actual argument. It makes you look bad if you do not.

Lets play a game of "how many things are wrong with my bullshit argument?".

If you could play "how many things are wrong with my bullshit argument" which is not bullshit compared to what you have been spewing, than GET IT ON and get started. I am waiting. like I am waiting for those sources that declare that the Sand People history and Bendak are 100% complete and certifiable noncanon.

So far, the only things I might have misquoted were Bendak and Selven, though that does not mean that the former was not possible (barring, again a source) and the the latter was not likely.

Canon=confirmed source
What you stated=possibility yetr not confirmed nor part of the storyline, understand?

Well, at least we are talking more in a more civil manner, on both sides of the fence, which is a start. I may have overreached myself in some areas, ie Bendak Starkiller, but most of what I did list ie the Manaan Swoop Championship, Bane's assesment of Revan's holocron, Sherruk etc. are indeed canon or at the very least have not been condemned by any authorized source as otherwise. Some of them are up in the air with various chances of being considered canon/noncanon, but most are cemented as canon. That is the point I was trying to make.

Canon=confirmed source
What you stated=possibility yetr not confirmed nor part of the storyline, understand?

Well, some of the things Tortoise has pointed out are probably and most likely canon, such as the Wookie Revolt. We can prove that by logical premises and stuff, but w/e.

Play nice, kids. Some of you are getting out of hand, especially Darth Sexy, in a few of his posts.


And that is in a normal human being. If Bane has all the orbalisks pumping in this fight, speed is key, as if he is delayed to long, he will die. Hell, if he wins but the fight has gone on too long he will STILL die.

You’re not really the smartest guy around, are you? The orbalisks constantly pump him with strength and adrenaline, even while not in a combat situation. Bane said that he felt "rejuvenated" and "strengthened" by the Orbalisk's power. Your argument fails solely on the reason that if Bane were to die by an overdose, he would have already died while he was still on Dxun. The adrenaline would have killed him long ago if the darkside were not sustaining his internal organs.

And really, it's not too difficult for someone who has played KOTOR, (which you seem to have) to understand that the darkside is capable of sustenance. Darth Sion for instance was able to use the dark side to sustain his body despite having many of his internal organs burned.

Simply by your sheer display of thickheadedness, I'd imagine that you didn’t pick that up.

FACT: He killed Bendak Starkiller, a Mandalorian duelist who killed so many people in death matches THERE WAS A BOUNTY PUT OUT ON HIS HEAD!!!! And that was BEFORE he rediscovered force sensitivity.

ROFLMAO! Some of the finest bullshit I've seen in KMC for some time now. Your argument clearly fails because

A) Killing Bendak Starkiller is basically null evidence when trying to establish that Revan can take down Bane.
B) Revan was canonically light side. Killing Starkiller was labeled by Bioware as gaining dark side influence.
C) It was a completely optional side quest.

FACT: He won his way up to the bloody Swoop Campionship of MANAAN, THE CAPITAL OF SWOOP RACING AFTER THE LIQUIDATION OF TARIS!!!!

Sorry, I had to post this up for comic relief. I suppose you are trying to build up proof that Revan will ride a swoop bike into Bane?

Seriously, I’ve seen people who haven’t even PLAYED KOTOR forming better arguments for Revan.

What a joke 🙄

Originally posted by zephiel7
Sorry, I had to post this up for comic relief. I suppose you are trying to build up proof that Revan will ride a swoop bike into Bane?

Seriously, I’ve seen people who haven’t even PLAYED KOTOR forming better arguments for Revan.

LOL Indian brotha, I find this funny 😂

Ok than, you arn't the world's best debator ever.

The overdose IS still there, as long as we are dealing with humans here. Had Bane been say a Rodian, I MIGHT have been able to accept the idea that his body does not work the same way ours does, but he IS human. His body works the same way. I doubt it is "constantly" pumping its stuff into him, for Bane would have turned into a DS Anakin ala ROTS, somebody who cannot stand still or shut up. Fortunatly for Bane, at least against Anakin's case, he can honestly say that it is the adreneline kicking him all over.

And yes, I have played KOTOR II (finally somebody realizes that) and I have met our dear friend Mr. Sion. However, many people credit the DS as the ONLY thing holding his body together, and it is undoubtably a major role in it, but another large role is Sion's on bullish will to live and his raw hate. As for "sustenence" we have never actually seen somebody in either game actually eating/drinking, but that does not mean they actually do not eat or drink. Few games, in fact, show somebody eating or drinking on their own, but it is implied.

We have seen no evidence the Dark Side, or indeed the force in general, can allow somebody to wiave food and drink alltogether in the long run. In the short run, maybe. Maybe. But never in the long run.

And indeed, in this case, the source of Bane's greatest strength is boobytrapped so to speak. The DS is not a calming agent. It draws off the rage and the hatred of the individual and gives them power thataway. The problem is that such an event would case his heart to work even harder due to them. And he is already on the clock due to the adrenline that he gets from the time he starts the fight. The point I am trying to make is that Bane either has to kill Revan in a timely fashion (I will not say fast persee, as we don't know how strong his heart is and therefore we cannot say how long he will last) or face dieing as the heart beats so fast it begins to rupture itself.

As for Bendak, I was NEVER trying to say Bendak>Bane, or even Bendak=Bane. That would be STOOOPID on a massive scale only found in incidents like the "battle" of Karancebes. If Bane in any form pretty much went up against Bendak, Bendak's head and most of his body would be turned into a bloody, mucky organic mess.

What I am trying to do is to build up the body of evidence. Which is used in law to call the evidnece by one side. In other words, I am showing the accomplishments of Revan, such as defeating Bendak without the force, defeating the One, etc.

I am not saying that these guys could kill Bane. Some of them (Malak, Bastilla) may have a good chance, yes, but I doubt anybody has a better than 50% chance to beat Bane. But it does show what Revan is capable of, as he had less time, was cut off from his knowledge, was drastically outnumbered even with his allies, but at the same time managed to truimph over seemingly insurmountable odds. Bane can defeat several one on one, but in the context of a discreet campaign like this, with no contact with the majority of the Jedi, and a solo journey, I doubt it.

Ad for the rediculous swoop bike thing, It was a testiment: I have seen many disregard the racing aspects. They seem worthless in a fight. But again, so would studying human anatomy before a sword duel. But it helps. And the Swoop racing, given the fact that people who had been doing this for possibly as long as a decade could not defeat this very-firstimer, it shows both his force poweress and other skills, multitasking and hand-eye coordination, which undoubtably can prove a boon in a fight to the death.

And Also,Just being "optional" does not mean "noncanotical" as the good General pointed out. You also have not said diddily squat about the rest of my argument. Surely if it were that bad you would score further points and rout me from the field by making these other fallacies known? Maybe it is actually a good argument and you a cherrypicking areas that you can actually hope to attack me on and hope I forget the fact that you have not answered the others? Maybe you know that you cannot compete with a great deal of evidence, most of it indisputably canon, that would destroy your argument?

But don't worry, Zephiel. Even if you are cherry picking and have no knowledge about medicinal facts, you are still better than Darth Sexy. I will give credit were credit is due.

Even if none of it is due to your debating skills.

Oh yes, and ps, if you edited in the "Finest ****" quotation on after rereading your post, than you shouldn't be so hard on yourself. Again, You are still better than Darth Sexy.

Edit: Meh Whatever.