Ruling a Sith Empire doesn't necessarily make him as strong as others Darth Sexy. Lord Kaan was able to hold the Sith together and would have probably held them longer had not for the Battle of Ruusan. While Kaan was obviously weak, unlike Ragnos, you cannot say Ragnos > Revan, Kun, Vader, and Bane because he ruled the Sitih.
Originally posted by General Kenobl
Ruling a Sith Empire doesn't necessarily make him as strong as others Darth Sexy. Lord Kaan was able to hold the Sith together and would have probably held them longer had not for the Battle of Ruusan. While Kaan was obviously weak, unlike Ragnos, you cannot say Ragnos > Revan, Kun, Vader, and Bane because he ruled the Sitih.
They were two different empires. The Ancient Sith empire(the true sith) was based on rule of the strong. One dark lord and several powerful sith lords. Anyone can challenge the dark lord if they felt strong enough. So ruling with an iron fist over the most powerful era of the sith(in terms of sith knowledge and power), speaks volumes for Ragnos. Not to mention that HE is the one that always crowns the DLOTS after his death, that HIS passing was felt on the other side of the galaxy by Odan Urr, etc. Everything points to him being extremely powerful. Now he was at least 150 years old when he died, so his quality and quantity of knowledge was greater than Kun, Revan, Vader and Bane. We don't know everybody's potential but it's safe to say at their prime, Ragnos was the most powerful of everybody except Sidious.
They were two different empires. The Ancient Sith empire(the true sith) was based on rule of the strong. One dark lord and several powerful
This is probably true.
sith lords. Anyone can challenge the dark lord if they felt strong enough. So ruling with an iron fist over the most powerful era of the sith(in terms of sith knowledge and power), speaks volumes for Ragnos. Not to mention that HE is the one that always crowns the DLOTS after his death,
He is powerful because he's the one who crowns the Dark Lord after himself? Perhaps maybe because the other reason is that he has good charisma and was able to influence people like Exar and Ulic to be Master and Apprentice. While the future Sith might have feared him, the fact is he could have been chosen because people considered him wise and charismatic and listened to his ways.
that HIS passing was felt on the other side of the galaxy by Odan Urr, etc.
Proof?
Everything points to him being extremely powerful. Now he was at least 150 years old when he died,
Proof?
so his quality and quantity of knowledge was greater than Kun, Revan, Vader and Bane.
And how do you know that Bane or Revan didn't become that old as well?
Look at Yoda, he's 900 and has considerable knowledge. Look at Mace, he's 40 something but is still on par with Yoda.
And please, Vader and Revan has proven to be extremely powerful in terms of the Force and the lightsaber.
We don't know everybody's potential but it's safe to say at their prime, Ragnos was the most powerful of everybody except Sidious.
No, not really.
The thing, the Ancient Sith probably created most of the Dark Side techniques used afterwards by Dark Lords like Revan and Bane, etc. However, to what magnitude they could use these techniques are unknown. Thus, while the Ancients might have taught techinques like Force Lightning, Force Crush, the level which Sith used these techniques in battle is up to the mastery of the specific Sith Lord.
Originally posted by General Kenobl
He is powerful because he's the one who crowns the Dark Lord after himself? Perhaps maybe because the other reason is that he has good charisma and was able to influence people like Exar and Ulic to be Master and Apprentice. While the future Sith might have feared him, the fact is he could have been chosen because people considered him wise and charismatic and listened to his ways.
Lets see proof of his passing. Read GAOTS.. Proof of him being at least 150 when he died? Well lets see, he ruled for about 100-150 years with an iron fist, and before that at some point he defeated Simus, and at some point before that, he was younger. So he's about 150 at the least.
And how do you know that Bane or Revan didn't become that old as well?
Look at Yoda, he's 900 and has considerable knowledge. Look at Mace, he's 40 something but is still on par with Yoda.You also have to look at the quality of teachings, the potential of the force user, etc. Yoda at 900 was equal to Sidious at 60. Ragnos lived during the Golden Age, when sith alchemy/knowledge/power were at their apex, so it's fair to say his quality of knowledge surpasses all those after him(with the exception of Palpatine).
And please, Vader and Revan has proven to be extremely powerful in terms of the Force and the lightsaber.
The thing, the Ancient Sith probably created most of the Dark Side techniques used afterwards by Dark Lords like Revan and Bane, etc. However, to what magnitude they could use these techniques are unknown. Thus, while the Ancients might have taught techinques like Force Lightning, Force Crush, the level which Sith used these techniques in battle is up to the mastery of the specific Sith Lord. [/B]
Techniques such as force storm, thought bomb, amulet blasts, etc, were all invented by the ancient sith. The only sith lord to develop some techniques of his own was Sidious.
Originally posted by GideonMeaning he's the evilest, not neccessairly the strongest, though, right? [/QUOTE]
I don't see how. "Greatest master of evil ever to use Sith power". [/QUOTE]
While it's obvious DE Sidious is the most powerful sith ever, you could interpret that quote as "greatest master of evil", meaning he's the most evil sith lord to everu se the sith power. Or the greatest and most evil sith lord. Many ways to interpret that. We don't know how evil Ragnos was.. That's why I don't like ridiculously ambiguous quotes such as that.
I see. Pulling the ambiguity card? "The greatest master of evil ever to use Sith power". This was before Sidious performed any legendary achievements. He didn't destroy the Jedi or the Republic at this point and the Empire was still a fantasy at this point. Hell, by the time that this quote was made, he didn't even get his "emergancy powers". So, we can rule out "achievements" right off the bat.
Originally posted by Gideon
I see. Pulling the ambiguity card? "The greatest master of evil ever to use Sith power". This was before Sidious performed any legendary achievements. He didn't destroy the Jedi or the Republic at this point and the Empire was still a fantasy at this point. Hell, by the time that this quote was made, he didn't even get his "emergancy powers". So, we can rule out "achievements" right off the bat.
What is this cliche with "omg he said ambiguity he MUST be making excuses". Notice how I said that DE Sidious is obviously the most powerful sith lord but quotes like that have multiple interpretations. It says he's the greatest master of evil. Possibly the most evil sith lord ever? It CERTAINLY does NOT translate into "Greatest dark side user" or "Greatest sith to ever use dark side power".
Oh my god Darth Sexy. Learn to comprehend English.
"The greatest master of evil ever to use Sith power ."
What does this mean?
Greatest- Synonym is foremost.
Master of Evil- Symbolizes the Dark Lord of the Sith
Sith Power- Symbolizes Dark Side of the Force
So it basically says in simpler terms, Sidious is the foremost Dark Lord of the Sith to the Dark Side of the Force.
Since this was from AOTC as Escape says, AOTC Sidious > Ragnos.
Originally posted by General Kenobl
Oh my god Darth Sexy. Learn to comprehend English."The greatest master of evil ever to use Sith power ."
What does this mean?
Greatest- Synonym is foremost.
Master of Evil- Symbolizes the Dark Lord of the Sith
Sith Power- Symbolizes Dark Side of the ForceSo it basically says in simpler terms, Sidious is the foremost Dark Lord of the Sith to the Dark Side of the Force.
Since this was from AOTC as Escape says, AOTC Sidious > Ragnos.
Learn to comprehend English? You're telling me to do that when you post complete shit? Greatest master of evil could mean GREATEST evil force user to use sith power. I already know that DE Sidious is the most powerful sith but that text hardly clarifies it. Greatest villian to ever use sith power. Do we know how evil any DLOTS was prior to Sidious?
You do realize Ragnos was called THE Dark Lord. That means the strongest of the strongest, until Palpatine.
Wonderful. Unfortunately that is only opinion as of right now, not fact.
Lets see proof of his passing. Read GAOTS.. Proof of him being at least 150 when he died? Well lets see, he ruled for about 100-150 years with an iron fist, and before that at some point he defeated Simus, and at some point before that, he was younger. So he's about 150 at the least.
I have looked over GAOTS some time before, I just never paid attention to the limited Marka Ragnos portion of it. And unfortunately, swtimeline doesn't seem to be working.... 😕
Your age count is pretty accurate. However, age doesn't matter (look what happened to Dooku), though it does signify experience and wisdom.
Because Bane died in his 20s and Revan's fate was unknown. Although I concede the points about them both being "greater" sith lords due to their accomplishments.
Bane died in his 20s? What source? Revan's fate is unknown. Revan and Bane are more powerful Sith Lords than Ragnos. All the things they have done to show this power easily rivals that of Marka.
You also have to look at the quality of teachings, the potential of the force user, etc. Yoda at 900 was equal to Sidious at 60. Ragnos lived during the Golden Age, when sith alchemy/knowledge/power were at their apex, so it's fair to say his quality of knowledge surpasses all those after him(with the exception of Palpatine).
Ragnos's time was during an age where more of the Dark Side was being uncovered and revealed. And much of Golden Age's discoveries on the powers of the Dark Side were stored in holocrons for a reason: to preserve this new found knowledge.
So? Vader's abilities were severely limited and Revan studied ancient sith techniques designed by ancient sith like Ragnos.
Revan mastered these techniques to a very high extremity. And despite Vader's potential going way down, he was still very powerful when going all out .
Techniques such as force storm, thought bomb, amulet blasts, etc, were all invented by the ancient sith. The only sith lord to develop some techniques of his own was Sidious.
While the Ancient Sith discovered the techniques, it does not mean they were its greatest masters. I mean in a battle of a certain game where the Creator vs. Champion, the Champion will probably win because he has mastered all the rules of game to its highest extremity. The Creator, while creating the game, may have considerable knowledge on gameplay, but even he may not have mastered all the different strategies. This in a way resembles the Ancient Sith and the future generation of Sith Lord like Revan and Sidious, who mastered the Dark Side techniques set out by the Ancients.
Originally posted by General Kenobl
Wonderful. Unfortunately that is only opinion as of right now, not fact.
I have looked over GAOTS some time before, I just never paid attention to the limited Marka Ragnos portion of it. And unfortunately, swtimeline doesn't seem to be working.... 😕
Your age count is pretty accurate. However, age doesn't matter (look what happened to Dooku), though it does signify experience and wisdom.
Bane died in his 20s? What source? Revan's fate is unknown. Revan and Bane are more powerful Sith Lords than Ragnos. All the things they have done to show this power easily rivals that of Marka.
Ragnos's time was during an age where more of the Dark Side was being uncovered and revealed. And much of Golden Age's discoveries on the powers of the Dark Side were stored in holocrons for a reason: to preserve this new found knowledge.
Revan mastered these techniques to a very high extremity. And despite Vader's potential going way down, he was still very powerful when going all out .
While the Ancient Sith discovered the techniques, it does not mean they were its greatest masters. I mean in a battle of a certain game where the Creator vs. Champion, the Champion will probably win because he has mastered all the rules of game to its highest extremity. The Creator, while creating the game, may have considerable knowledge on gameplay, but even he may not have mastered all the different strategies. This in a way resembles the Ancient Sith and the future generation of Sith Lord like Revan and Sidious, who mastered the Dark Side techniques set out by the Ancients. [/B]
Learn to comprehend English? You're telling me to do that when you post complete shit? Greatest master of evil could mean GREATEST evil force user to use sith power. I already know that DE Sidious is the most powerful sith but that text hardly clarifies it. Greatest villian to ever use sith power. Do we know how evil any DLOTS was prior to Sidious?
Why yes, I am telling you to comprehend that sentence.
A definition of greatest from Dictionary.com is:
"chief or principal"
When they mean Master of Evil, it's basically an elaborate of describing a Dark Lord of the Sith. I mean, what is a Dark Lord of the Sith: a master of evil. The Sith are evil, and the DLOTS is the master of this evil. Get my flow?
What is a Sith's Power? What do all the Jedi and Sith get power from? The Force, because it makes them different from all other warriors. So what aspect of the Force is the Sith's power? Why: the Dark Side of the Force.
So basically, it means that Sidious is the chief Dark Lord of the Sith to use the Dark Side of the Force.
I mean, there is no other way for it mean anything else, since Sidious didn't accomplish much during this time.
In AOTC novelization, Sidious is said to be that sentence. This makes AOTC Sidious > Ragnos and any other Sith Lord. I am sorry Darth Sexy, but it is true.
Originally posted by General Kenobl
Why yes, I am telling you to comprehend that sentence.A definition of greatest from Dictionary.com is:
"chief or principal"
When they mean Master of Evil, it's basically an elaborate of describing a Dark Lord of the Sith. I mean, what is a Dark Lord of the Sith: a master of evil. The Sith are evil, and the DLOTS is the master of this evil. Get my flow?
What is a Sith's Power? What do all the Jedi and Sith get power from? The Force, because it makes them different from all other warriors. So what aspect of the Force is the Sith's power? Why: the Dark Side of the Force.
So basically, it means that Sidious is the chief Dark Lord of the Sith to use the Dark Side of the Force.
I mean, there is no other way for it mean anything else, since Sidious didn't accomplish much during this time.
In AOTC novelization, Sidious is said to be that sentence. This makes AOTC Sidious > Ragnos and any other Sith Lord. I am sorry Darth Sexy, but it is true.
Greatest master of evil- one who uses evil to its fullest extent.
Care to quantify the amount of evil all of the other DLOTS possessed? Didn't think so.
Actually no, the description was "most powerful of the most powerful, THE dark Lord". So it's fact.
Swtimeline is not working on me, and my Internet is working perfectly normal. And that quote has to mean that at that specific moment in time, Ragnos is the most powerful Sith. Otherwise, it goes against complete canon by saying Ragnos > Sidious, when it's supposed to be otherwise.
Dooku got powerful with age, so did Yoda. Ragnos' teachings surpass all of the SW characters other than Sidious.
So you say.
More powerful than Ragnos? Oh please. All they have done was developed by RAGNOS and the ANCIENT SITH. Nothing even begins to indicate that Bane was as powerful as the most powerful of the ancient sith. Revan has more of a case for him but even he was awed at the power of the ancient sith, and became a LOT more powerful through their teachings.
Are you kidding me? Bane and Revan were extremely impressive in their use of the Dark Side techniques made by the Ancients. I definitely see them surpassing Ragnos.
Golden Age of the Sith=Apex of sith knowledge/power. Granted that Sidious himself was the greatest, there was no greater time of sith knowledge/power than the GAOTS.
From Dictionary.Com:
Definition of a Golden Age :
the most flourishing period in the history of a nation, literature, etc.
Definition of flourishing :
growing vigorously; thriving; prosperous: a flourishing little business.
Ergo, it means that in the Golden Age, the Sith were prospering in many, different ways. It doesn’t necessarily mean that they totally mastered the Dark Side during this period, but more likely they formulated new techniques.
But could he beat Revan or Bane? Unlikely. Ragnos? Very unlikely.
Right.
The only character that has shown to take abilities from the ancient sith, to new heights, was Sidious, which is why he is the most powerful.
And why not Bane or Revan? Have you ever seen ACStyle's Revan Feat Page? Bane, who despite spending limited time with Revan, was able to kick the ass of a swordmaster who has spent decades honing his skills. Dude, you are starting to be a Ragnos Fanboy, no offense.
Greatest master of evil- one who uses evil to its fullest extent.
Dude, there's a word called analysis . Look it up.
You don't take the quote literally, you have to check its inner meaning, which makes sense with canon.
Really? So you can quantify the amount of evil the other DLOTS possessed? It just means that he was the most evil DLOTS to ever use sith power. Again, I'm not questioning Sidious being the top dog by DE, but I am questioning that quote.
See, your reasoning fails here. You can't quantity who is more "evil-er " than the other. I mean, there were many Sith Lord who were a lot more evil than Sidious. The fact is Darth Sexy, this explantion is correct:
Originally posted by General Kenobl
Why yes, I am telling you to comprehend that sentence.A definition of greatest from Dictionary.com is:
"chief or principal"
When they mean Master of Evil, it's basically an elaborate of describing a Dark Lord of the Sith. I mean, what is a Dark Lord of the Sith: a master of evil. The Sith are evil, and the DLOTS is the master of this evil. Get my flow?
What is a Sith's Power? What do all the Jedi and Sith get power from? The Force, because it makes them different from all other warriors. So what aspect of the Force is the Sith's power? Why: the Dark Side of the Force.
So basically, it means that Sidious is the chief Dark Lord of the Sith to use the Dark Side of the Force.
I mean, there is no other way for it mean anything else, since Sidious didn't accomplish much during this time.
In AOTC novelization, Sidious is said to be that sentence. This makes AOTC Sidious > Ragnos and any other Sith Lord. I am sorry Darth Sexy, but it is true.