For in him all things in heaven and on earth were created, things visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or powers—
All things have been created through him and for him. He himself is before all things, and in him all things hold together.
Psalm 139:7-12 (King James Version)
7Whither shall I go from thy spirit? or whither shall I flee from thy presence?
8If I ascend up into heaven, thou art there: if I make my bed in hell, behold, thou art there.
Visible and invisible were created by god and god existes in all things invisible as in spirit form, even in hell, the imaginary place.... A spirit of an invisible form can interact with other invisible forms such as intentions, emotions which lead to actions ie the visible.
You have a very small view of what god is, ya know that?
Originally posted by Nellinator
You do realize that God excludes himself from evil... Although he has knowledge of evil He does not use it. So in a way I guess He does have evil, but His perfection and love makes it so He doesn't use it.
That's an interesting interpretation Nellinator. I've always thought that evil in itself existed outside of God, rather than God himself possessing it.
Or let me put it this way. God has defined himself within the bible to be loving by nature. Being such, he is not capable of acting any way but loving in all of his actions, thoughts, or knowledge..since he defines himself as not being contradictary, and states that he "revels in truth."
But think about this for a moment. If God is indeed loving, then of course..he will then have to allow his creations the ability to decide whether or not they want to love him. This then means from the onset of creation, God will have to instill all of his creations with this thing called "free will", which is demonstrative of this loving character which he possesses.
He does this of course with the knowledge that at some point free will; a loving gift of choosing to be with God, will allow some of his children the choice of not wanting to be with him. Thus God only has knowledge of his children not choosing him, but that does not mean in anyway that God himself is responsable for his children making this choice. And logically it couldn't, or he wouldn't really be giving them free will.
So from the beginning all of this makes God always completely loving by nature, never possessing an evil thought or commiting an evil action. He will only be responsable for granting free will to his creation, not instilling them with evil. Any act of free will that is used to choose the alternative of what he represents, will then be the responsability of his creation and definitionally be defined as the alternative to what he himself is.
But let's put a more human outlook on it. Say I have a child and train them in the ways I've defined to be loving. At some point if that child decides to leave from my house, any choices he makes against what I've taught or instilled in him regarding what love is, are entirely coming from him and not myself.
This is a bit off topic and deep I know. Just a little food for thought.
Originally posted by Thundar
That's an interesting interpretation Nellinator. I've always thought that evil in itself existed outside of God, rather than God himself possessing it.Or let me put it this way. God has defined himself within the bible to be loving by nature. Being such, he is not capable of acting any way but loving in all of his actions, thoughts, or knowledge..since he defines himself as not being contradictary, and states that he "revels in truth."
But think about this for a moment. If God is indeed loving, then of course..he will then have to allow his creations the ability to decide whether or not they want to love him. This then means from the onset of creation, God will have to instill all of his creations with this thing called "free will", which is demonstrative of this loving character which he possesses.
He does this of course with the knowledge that at some point free will; a loving gift of choosing to be with God, will allow some of his children the choice of not wanting to be with him. Thus God only has knowledge of his children not choosing him, but that does not mean in anyway that God himself is responsable for his children making this choice. And logically it couldn't, or he wouldn't really be giving them free will.
So from the beginning all of this makes God always completely loving by nature, never possessing an evil thought or commiting an evil action. He will only be responsable for granting free will to his creation, not instilling them with evil. Any act of free will that is used to choose the alternative of what he represents, will then be the responsability of his creation and definitionally be defined as the alternative to what he himself is.
But let's put a more human outlook on it. Say I have a child and train them in the ways I've defined to be loving. At some point if that child decides to leave from my house, any choices he makes against what I've taught or instilled in him regarding what love is, are entirely coming from him and not myself.
This is a bit off topic and deep I know. Just a little food for thought.
So, basically god is not greater then everything?
Originally posted by debbiejo
For in him all things in heaven and on earth were created, things visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or powers—
All things have been created through him and for him. He himself is before all things, and in him all things hold together.Psalm 139:7-12 (King James Version)
7Whither shall I go from thy spirit? or whither shall I flee from thy presence?
8If I ascend up into heaven, thou art there: if I make my bed in hell, behold, thou art there.
Visible and invisible were created by god and god existes in all things invisible as in spirit form, even in hell, the imaginary place.... A spirit of an invisible form can interact with other invisible forms such as intentions, emotions which lead to actions ie the visible.
You have a very small view of what god is, ya know that?
Originally posted by Nellinator
Hell is a spiritual place. Emotions are far different. I was hoping you would go for something along these lines because it only went to show that God is in all PLACES not all things. It specifically says that his presence is in all places not in all things.
If "place" is a location and "thing" is an object then, all objects have a location. If god is in all places then god is in all things.
I don't think so because it is the emotions and thoughts connected with it that make it evil. Emotions and thoughts can definitely be evil and if they are connected with an object it can be good to remove the object even though it is not the object that is at fault. One thing that Jesus taught was removing value from objects which I think is very important. Materialism is basically idolatry.
Originally posted by Nellinator
I don't think so because it is the emotions and thoughts connected with it that make it evil. Emotions and thoughts can definitely be evil and if they are connected with an object it can be good to remove the object even though it is not the object that is at fault. One thing that Jesus taught was removing value from objects which I think is very important. Materialism is basically idolatry.
So, god would be in all things even a false idol, but the worship of the idol is the offence to god, not the idol its self?
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
So, god would be in all things even a false idol, but the worship of the idol is the offence to god, not the idol its self?