Midnighter vs Daredevil

Originally posted by ExtraMision5555
Shuold midnighter try to counter one of daredevils moves, its entirely possible that daredevil can react accordingly becuase he can feel midnighters muscle contractions, it gets a bit messy here though, becuse in some ways, they both have similar abilities here

Choosing the best of millions already at your disposal vs trying to think of one.

Originally posted by ExtraMision5555
another thing, shuold daredevil begin to catch on to midnighter and becomes more reactive, it could pose alot of problems for midnighter as he would have trouble re-adapting to having a similar ability used against him (once again, daredevils ability to counter moves due to extra sensory preception)

What do you mean "become more reactive" anyway, he's already meant to be fighting to the best of his abilities. And they're not enough.

Why is this a five page debate? 😐

Midnighter 10/10

Midnighter's ability makes no sense at all. He can run a million scenarios in his head? Sure. He can choose the best one? Sure... but how the hell does he string his opponent along into fighting according to that scenario? Everything he does his opponent has to react too and in any given situation there are hundreds of solutions (and each of those can vary slightly in thousands of ways) of possible maneuvers he could initiate for every possible counter... And how does he know what Daredevil's fighting style is? What if he uses Aikido? What if he useS Krav Maga? Muay Thai? Boxing? Jujutsu? Taekwondo? Even if a million scenarios was enough to accurately predict they way the fight would go (which it isn't... not even close) why does Midnighter choosing the strategy best suited for him to win mean that Daredevil is going to dance to his tune?

you sort of answered your own question, srank. midnighter and daredevil each have almost infinite courses of action. daredevil has no way to narrow these down. midnighter does. based on daredevil's stance and first move, midnighter can narrow down the likely responses to a handful. daredevil has no such luxury.

aside from the tactical supercomputer, midnighter is physically superior to daredevil in every way except MAYBE agility.

As to Midnighter not being able to run his possibilities correctly because he doesn't realize DD has a radar sense... in those scans posted on page two (I think) of this debate, it clearly shows that Midnighter is capable of sensing other's superpowers. He would be able to tell if Daredevil had extra abilities, and plan accordingly.

Also, you asked how well he would do against Superman? He did take out Apollo, who has shown near (and in some cases exceeding) Superman level strength, speed, and durability.

Originally posted by manorastroman
you sort of answered your own question, srank. midnighter and daredevil each have almost infinite courses of action. daredevil has no way to narrow these down. midnighter does. based on daredevil's stance and first move, midnighter can narrow down the likely responses to a handful. daredevil has no such luxury.

aside from the tactical supercomputer, midnighter is physically superior to daredevil in every way except MAYBE agility.

Even if Midnighter narrows down his possible scenarios to fit with Daredevil's fighting style there is still going to to be an almost infinite number of possible out comes. Unless there is no free will involved it would be impossible for MN and DD to fight exactly the way he predicted it, the fight would never go as planed. Sure running a bunch of scenarios in your head is helpful (even if a million is a very limited number of possible out comes) for predicting how your opponent my react to your moves... but any skilled fighter can make the same predictions based on any number of things in the heat of combat, and DD radar sense makes it that much easier for him.

Aside from strength Midnigher isn't physically superior to Daredevil... and I'm not even sure how much stronger he actually is then Daredevil. Really, how strong do you need to be to bash someones head in with a Baton? One ton range?

Originally posted by tjcoady
Also, you asked how well he would do against Superman? He did take out Apollo, who has shown near (and in some cases exceeding) Superman level strength, speed, and durability.

...

Now that is a flat out lie.

EDIT: The Apollo being anywhere near Superman on any level part, not the Midnighter beating Apollo part.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
...

Now that is a flat out lie.

EDIT: The Apollo being anywhere near Superman on any level part, not the Midnighter beating Apollo part.

It was a bit of stretch, yea, you're right about that. I exaggerrated.
He does have some impressive feats though, and he is an impressively durable, fast and strong character.

For all those Midnighter freaks fans out there...

How long does it take him to run these scenerios through his mind. Is it like... a few seconds? One second? Ten minutes? A single thought?

He says that he can do a million scenarios in a second... but that maybe a hyperbole.

You are all aware that Midnighter is enhanced beyond all reason, right?

He's got two friggin hearts, for christsakes!

Most of the stuff about him is in Stormwatch. Here's the short end from Wikipedia, since I don't want to type it all out.

The world's deadliest killing machine, Midnighter's neural induction allows him to calculate over a million possible combat scenarios in a second. Allowing him the perfect counter to any attack (he's famous for taunting his opponents with lines like "I already know what you're going to do"😉. He has fibre-lined muscle increasing his strength, durability, and reflexes. Midnighter can move faster than the human- and even superhuman- eye in a quick speed burst, an effect perhaps created by his perfect anticipation of an enemies' moves. He can survive in anaerobic environments for short periods. He also has a secondary heart allowing him to survive wounds that would be otherwise fatal.

He also possesses a super-enhanced immune system, to the point where AIDS was defeated in six weeks and the common cold never stays more than a couple of minutes. After The Doctor overdosed himself with heroin, doctors used a shot of Midnighter's blood to jumpstart his system by deactivating his opiate receptors. Though not on the level of certain Marvel or DC characters, Midnighter does heal much faster than a normal human, and has implants that numb him to most pain.

Midnighter is also quite adept at stealth, and has used both a nightstick and a telescoping staff in close combat. His personal arsenal also commonly incorporates throwing stars. He is a close-quarters killer, having quite effortlessly slaughtered close to 30 superpowered soldiers by himself, without being so much as touched by them.

Midnighter has no need to use the bathroom and can go without food or water.

He had two hearts.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
He [b]had two hearts. [/B]

He didn't want to kill Grifter. Really. The writers made him. 🙁

And they're going to be together again in a new miniseries. 😊

I won't be happy until Grifter gets some payback... 😠

Essentially, Midnighter is supposed to be Slade on steroids.

Speaking of which, Slade had a freaking low showing recently. I'm a bit pissed about that.

... Don't get me started on Slade, he is in the same boat as Midnighter with all the inaccurate crap people say to hype him up.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
... Don't get me started on Slade, he is in the same boat as Midnighter with all the inaccurate crap people say to hype him up.

There's a LOT of stuff people spout about him that's not true.

When you take him on an average, he's Captain America with a killer instinct and better arsenal.

I still like him, but I don't make him out to be someone along the lines of Spider-Man.

Slade is a class two to five merc, with peak to low superhuman speed/agility, a low level healing factor and incredible reaction time. His fighting skills are considerably "second rate" when compared to Batman or even Nightwing, and he is full of bravado and incredible cocky and arrogant. He is more in line with the Punisher then Captain America, not that formidable straight up (relatively speaking) but a monster with prep time. In a straight up fight the likes of Batman, Nightwing, Eddie Friers and Deadshot can and have given Deathstroke a fight (even beating and stalemating him on occasion) and the same is true for Midnighter against high end streets IMO.

Slade and Midnigher are physically and ability wise pretty much carbon copies of each other... and except Slade is a bit better on every level.

Hm. Just a random thought:

What if Daredevil makes Midnighter make the first move? And then continue to make/let MN'er make the first move?