Revan & Malak vs Obi-Wan & Anakin

Originally posted by Kadesh
A question, is jar kai even related to niman?

Any thing else.

Originally posted by Kadesh
let me explain. niman contains other forms like shi cho, makashi and djem so correct? But kavar and insider stated that it has no strengths and no weaknesses and thus they called it the moderation form because it is balanced, what i mean is that the elements of other forms in niman is not mastered, If a djem so practitionar were to face a niman user. The djem so masters skill of djem so would > the djem so element in the niman form. thats like saying djem so is 100% which over powers the djem so in niman which is only 50%. Get it?

Guess what? Drew is correct and knows his stuff.

And Revan was so skilled in Saber Combat that he defeated a Juyo user. Jar Kai is also one of Revan's strong points. Kasi'm when unleashed Jar Kai, Bane who was a Djem So user was in trouble. Now you understand?

Originally posted by Kadesh
Yes i know it will get accepted, all i was pointing out that we cannot say that revan uses niman until drew decides for his opinion to be canon, do you understand?

that i do not deny

Originally posted by Kadesh
Exactly, and he should not be stupid enough to say something which contradicts what has been stated in other sources namely insider

Originally posted by Kadesh
Niman is completely different from jar kai, there is no relation, Jar kai is based on using 2 sabers. Niman is a form of moderation and a completely different style

Originally posted by Kadesh
There is, firstly if i took into account of what you said, how is revan going to even unleash a force attack if he is holding 2 lightsabers? Right he cant. Secondly insider makes no statement that niman allows the user to unleash a force attack. And what drew said is his opinion and thus would have to be approved by LFL which by the way, didnt yet. Lastly jar kai is a completely different form from niman. That is obvious.

Originally posted by allfg
Oh my days, haven't we been through this like a gazillion times already? The NEC is an in-story source, meaning it's subject to inaccuracy, and that any blanket statement inside is purely an opinion of a fallible third party. Now your original response was that Dan Wallace's email backed it up, yet now you're saying that the NEC backs up his opinion? Moronic.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Wookieepedia: Jar'Kai is a subform of Niman. Jar'Kai is one of the oldest forms of lightsaber combat.

Any thing else.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

And Drew said this: Form VI works well for anyone who is intelligent and adaptable, as Revan obviously was. [b]It has no real weaknesses.

Guess what? Drew is correct and knows his stuff.[/B]

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

And Revan was so skilled in Saber Combat that he defeated a Juyo user. Jar Kai is also one of Revan's strong points. Kasi'm when unleashed Jar Kai, Bane who was a Djem So user was in trouble. Now you understand?

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

Drew mentioned one of Revan's Saber Forms that he mastered and it will get accepted sooner or later. At the moment, no one is bothering on this issue.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

And Drew also writes Star Wars canon materials, is this not enough indication for you? His views are not contradicting with that of Lucas Arts or insider. He has access to Star Wars insider materials.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

Jar Kai is a sub-form of Niman.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

Revan can unleash attacks like Force Wave when he is using Jar Kai. And when he is using Niman, then it will be easy for him to unleash more Force attacks.

Originally posted by Kadesh
Um idiot? The events of JCW, the infinite empire and everything was precise. And by the way, though it was a in-universe character dating the events, it was written and explained in an [B]out of universe perspection which holds higher credibility,[/B]

No. Lightsnake tries to do this too, but you can't work around this: The NEC is an in-story source, just because it's quite an accurate and well detailed one, that still doesn't change anything.

o wait Didnt DESB at the time state the most powerful sith lord had risen? That meant before his DE incarnation he was already the strongest sith lord in history. Sorry you sock but you failed again

No. That was never said, I have the source and it's nowhere in there. That was another lie.

Originally posted by allfg
No. Lightsnake tries to do this too, but you can't work around this: The NEC is an in-story source, just because it's quite an accurate and well detailed one, that still doesn't change anything.

Originally posted by allfg

No. That was never said, I have the source and it's nowhere in there. That was another lie.

you even argue against the law of physics.

Wow...

I've read through everyone's posts, and no one has called a winner yet.

Anakin and Obi Wan.

Why?

Anakin vs. Revan: Form I may allow for more force attacks, but, when Dooku was put against Anakin, Dooku's force mastery was called "A joke." Also, Anakin (along with everyone else) knows Form I. Anakin would bash him into the ground. Also, just for the record: Anakin demolished Cin Drallig, who knew form I, while choking a Padawan.

Obi Wan vs Malak: Didn't Obi Wan already beat the more powerful version of Malak (Anakin)? Anakin is like Malak, only younger, stronger, and angrier. If Obi Wan can defend against 18 lightsaber hits a second from someone with Greivous' strength (with apparent ease I might add), I doubt Malak will be a problem.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
He was using the Star Forge to put captured Jedi in stasis form to replenish his energies (if necessary) and thats it. No where it was said that Malak was being crushed in Saber Combat. Star Forge does not enhances the Saber skills of an individual.

Revan used his saber skills in conjunction with his Force Mastery to crush his opponents as evident from Drew's opinion. And Revan's Force Mastery > Malak's Force Mastery.

The star forge powered Malak to an "almost unstoppable" individual. Even if it doesn't enhance Malak's technique, it adds to his powers, thus enabling him to power himself with the force much strong, like speed, strenght, stamina, etc. He also had jedi to fulfill his stamina a couple of times, he had a huge advantage from what he normally would have, even in saber combat. (Though not in technique per say) You cannot deny that.

Originally posted by allfg
Oh my days, haven't we been through this like a gazillion times already? The NEC is an in-story source, meaning it's subject to inaccuracy, and that any blanket statement inside is purely an opinion of a fallible third party. Now your original response was that Dan Wallace's email backed it up, yet now you're saying that the NEC backs up his opinion? Moronic.

I would like to elaborate upon this: tNEC is indeed written in an in-universe perspective from a bunch of New Republic historians, and that means that Nebaris is very much correct in one aspect - all characters in the Star Wars universe are fallible when it comes to their statements, such as Anakin's boastful statements in RotS or Sidious's "everything is proceeding as I have forseen" ramblings.

I would like to point out, however, that the tNEC is written very accurately and the historians in question have an extreme amount of knowledge regarding things that aren't well known - and weren't well known 'til the publishing of the book, including Darth Sidious's own plans and machinations (which very, very few people in the galaxy were aware of).

So, Nebaris, there is no reason to discount tNEC's point of view on Sidious, considering we have all (including you) cited fallible characters in our arguments and expected others to take them seriously.

Originally posted by jollyjim311
Wow...

I've read through everyone's posts, and no one has called a winner yet.

Anakin and Obi Wan.

Why?

Anakin vs. Revan: Form I may allow for more force attacks, but, when Dooku was put against Anakin, Dooku's force mastery was called "A joke." Also, Anakin (along with everyone else) knows Form I. Anakin would bash him into the ground. Also, just for the record: Anakin demolished Cin Drallig, who knew form I, while choking a Padawan.

Obi Wan vs Malak: Didn't Obi Wan already beat the more powerful version of Malak (Anakin)? Anakin is like Malak, only younger, stronger, and angrier. If Obi Wan can defend against 18 lightsaber hits a second from someone with Greivous' strength (with apparent ease I might add), I doubt Malak will be a problem. [/B]

Gee, lets conveniently forget that the fight had nothing to do with anything except for the fact that Obiwan knew Anakin like a book since he trained him. Using that in a debate against someone superior just doesn't work. Malak was #2 in an order of tens of thousands, so he most definitely takes down Obiwan with a saber and pwns him with the force..

It actually was stated that Revan was a force prodigy. Keep up Sexy.

Originally posted by Gideon
I would like to elaborate upon this: tNEC is indeed written in an in-universe perspective from a bunch of New Republic historians, and that means that Nebaris is very much correct in one aspect - [B]all characters in the Star Wars universe are fallible when it comes to their statements, such as Anakin's boastful statements in RotS or Sidious's "everything is proceeding as I have forseen" ramblings.

I would like to point out, however, that the tNEC is written very accurately and the historians in question have an extreme amount of knowledge regarding things that aren't well known - and weren't well known 'til the publishing of the book, including Darth Sidious's own plans and machinations (which very, very few people in the galaxy were aware of).

So, Nebaris, there is no reason to discount tNEC's point of view on Sidious, considering we have all (including you) cited fallible characters in our arguments and expected others to take them seriously. [/B]

I'm not denying that Voren Na'al was extremely well informed and that the NEC is for the most part pretty accurate and detailed, however that doesn't mean that everything inside should be treated as fact, especially blanket statements that just don't make sense. RotS Sidious being the most powerful sith ever would be pretty strange (even you have to admit this), so I have no reason to take that personal opinion too seriously.

Originally posted by jollyjim311
Wow...

I've read through everyone's posts, and no one has called a winner yet.

Anakin and Obi Wan.

Why?

Anakin vs. Revan: Form I

WTF does From 1 have to do with anything?

may allow for more force attacks, but, when Dooku was put against Anakin, Dooku's force mastery was called "A joke."

Really? I actually didn't know that. Damn... You should've said it sooner man, I mean it's not like you've actually said it like a gazillion times or anything, that's actually the first time I've heard it from you. NeWayz, clearly someone has no clue what the point of that statement actually was. The point was that Anakin's dominance, and sheer speed and strength was so overwhelming for Dooku that he simply couldn't pull of anything with the force; Anakin just wasn't letting him. However, too assume that Anakin would be able to do the same to Revan is asinine, considering that Revan's both younger and more powerful than Dooku, and wouldn't be overwhelmed so easily.

Also, Anakin (along with everyone else) knows Form I. Anakin would bash him into the ground. Also, just for the record: Anakin demolished Cin Drallig, who knew form I, while choking a Padawan.

That's great, and I'm sure that Anakin's Form 1 knowledge will be of such great use when up against someone who clearly isn't a Form 1 user.

Obi Wan vs Malak: Didn't Obi Wan already beat the more powerful version of Malak (Anakin)? Anakin is like Malak, only younger, stronger, and angrier.

I don't know about that, Malak was one hell of an angry SoB.

If Obi Wan can defend against 18 lightsaber hits a second from someone with Greivous' strength (with apparent ease I might add), I doubt Malak will be a problem.

🙄
If Malak can lift and choke one powerful jedi, and then throw his lightsaber into him, impaling him, while at the same time blasting another powerful jedi with lightning, I doubt Obi-Wan will be a problem.

Originally posted by allfg
It actually was stated that Revan was a force prodigy. Keep up Sexy.

I said it never stated Revan was a saber prodigy. If you're going to try and make someone else look stupid, don't embarass yourself with your piss poor reading comprehension skills.

It actually was stated that Revan was a saber prodigy. Keep up Sexy.

Originally posted by allfg
It actually was stated that Revan was a saber prodigy. Keep up Sexy.

Make up your mind francine, which one was it? First it was him being a force prodigy which I never stated to be false(hence your embarassing comprehension skills). Now apparently it was stated that Revan was a saber prodigy, which is a lie as it was never stated anywhere. But please continue, embarassing yourself really does naturally to you..

Originally posted by Kadesh
Um anybody could have typed that in. Again i point out, according to insider there is no similarities between jar kai and niman

I guess that it is. Revan indeed mastered Form VI Saber Styles.

Originally posted by Kadesh
Guess what, niman has no real strengths either according to kavar in a cut scene

When you can't find a weakness in a Saber Form of your highly skilled opponent then you will get in trouble.

Originally posted by Kadesh
Firstly was it even canonically stated that malak used juyo in any sources other than drews opinion which has been yet to be approved? Because according to K2 revan is highly likely to use jar kai. And just because bane nearly got shitted when kasim used jar kai on him does it mean it will work on anakin whom mastered djem so into its highest degree? From what you said because of an isolated case thats like saying oh dooku will always > anakin because in aotc makashi pwned djem so when it changed in ROTS. You yourself just said that it is the outcome in battle which is important, i merely point out just because it happened to bane it doesnt mean it will happen to anakin.

And Bane was not a bad fighter either. He fought against one of the greatest Saber duelists of all times and still survived, which is impressive.

And Anakin used Jar Kai against Dooku in AOTC. But you should note that Anakin had not mastered Form VI Saber styles so he failed. He then adopted Djem So and found out that it suited him best and probably mastered it to its highest degree.

Originally posted by Kadesh
Until then i will deny revan using niman while accepting that he does use jar kai from what K2 showed

Originally posted by Kadesh
Yes but did he write that because you use niman, so it is easier for you to unleash force attacks? He did not even write that down officialy so how can it be canon? Let me continue in my next line...
Care to prove that?
The fact is with any form its easy to unleash a force attack. weather its with djem so or makashi as dooku demonstrated in ROTS.

If unleashing Force attacks with Makashi was so easy then Dooku would have got a chance against Anakin but he didn't.

Revan and Malak win easily. Malak could take out Kenobi like Dooku did, by tossing him around with the Force. Revan could take Anakin after a long fight. Even if you're of the mind that Anakin could beat Revan Malak will kill Kenobi first and there's no way in hell Anakin's going to be able to take out Revan and Malak 2 on 1.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Is Jar Kai not a Form VI Saber Style?

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

I guess that it is. Revan indeed mastered Form VI Saber Styles.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

Niman is the most balanced Saber Form and it has no real weaknesses. This is what matters more.

When you can't find a weakness in a Saber Form of your highly skilled opponent then you will get in trouble.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

Drew gave a hint of what Saber Form Malak used. At-least we now have a hint from an expert and this matters a lot until we get to see an official declaration. Once again Drew will only mention things that are being discussed among Star Wars insiders or classified sources. He is not stupid to give a false or wrong opinion.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

And Bane was not a bad fighter either. He fought against one of the greatest Saber duelists of all times and still survived, which is impressive.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

And Anakin used Jar Kai against Dooku in AOTC. But you should note that Anakin had not mastered Form VI Saber styles so he failed. He then adopted Djem So and found out that it suited him best and probably mastered it to its highest degree.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

Your denial is not going to change anything. It is now confirmed that Revan probably mastered Form VI Saber styles (Niman and Jar Kai) to their highest degrees.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

No you failed to understand that it is more easy to unleash Force attacks with Form VI styles.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

If unleashing Force attacks with Makashi was so easy then Dooku would have got a chance against Anakin but he didn't.

Originally posted by allfg
I'm not denying that Voren Na'al was extremely well informed and that the NEC is for the most part pretty accurate and detailed, however that doesn't mean that everything inside should be treated as fact, especially blanket statements that just don't make sense. RotS Sidious being the most powerful sith ever would be pretty strange (even you have to admit this), so I have no reason to take that personal opinion too seriously.

I don't want to get into another argument about this, Nebaris, but the Visual Guide seems to think that Palpatine was the most powerful Sith Lord by Attack of the Clones, and yes, an argument could be made for it, and the Visual Guide is very much canon. Even if we were to discard that, however, we have depictions of his raw power in the Force (which exceeds any Sith Lord prior - to the point that it was killing him).

In an all out fight Revan and Malak win, they have better Force powers, but if this was lightsaber only then Obi-Wan and Anakin would win.