RotS Mace Windu VS RotS Count Dooku

Originally posted by darthsith19
And there was one really absurd Dooku fan, I believe Master Makashi was his name (not Count Makashi, he's not anywhere near as bad). Yeah, Rampant and Count Makashi are big fans but are at least somewhat realistic, Sorgo was "Dooku beats Sidious" and Master Makashi was "Dooku pwns all!"

Originally posted by darthsith19
Vaapad is nearly as good as Makashi is for dueling, Vaapad is good in every category, which is why it is the ultimate form. No, it wasn't designed primarily for dueling like Makashi was but it is good in everything, including dueling.

No, no, no guys...

Vapaad is AS good for dueling as Makashi, IF not better.
Vapaad is a derivative of Juyo, Which was the art form borne during the earliest Sith Wars, as you may know, It was designed with the mind of dueling both projectile and melee wielding opponents on the battlefield.

Now remember, Juyo is equally good against opponents with blasters because of this.
Makashi itself COMPLETELY lacks techniques designed to repel blaster fire.
Now, why?
Makashi was invented BEFORE blasters even were.
If you know anything about Makashi users, you know that they employ the defensive techniques of Form I Shii-Cho to defend against blaster wielding enemies and then switch back to Form II to deal with them blade-to-blade.

Which brings me to another point, Makashi is only good for one-on-one dueling.
The reason Count Dooku could take more than one opponent at a time (a la Anakin&Obi-Wan) was because he might have been the most skilled Makashi user ever to employ the art.
But, you notice during his final duel even he can't keep using only blade techniques forever, and has to toss Obi-Wan aside with help of the Force.

But back to the point, Makashi is only designed for one-on-one combat.

Juyo was designed to take on multiple blade-wielding opponents at once.
Is was also designed with the most effective and straightforward killing technique for a dueling form.
Which is why Mace refers to Form IV itself as the "Deadliest Form" in the novel Shatterpoint.

Now, Mace's Vapaad is all of what I just explained Juyo is, except, its also more.

Mace tempered Juyo's physical techniques to take them to their all-time high in the area of tactical value and developed even deeper techniques that evolved to a unique mindset around the Dark side.

The mindset is what gives the Vapaad user to both [absorb] and [re-direct] a Dark side users power.
So, the Vapaad practitioner uses his opponent as a weapon for himself and not just the darkness within him.

Makashi, while being an incredibly beautiful, deadly and ingenious form of lightsaber combat is actually rivaled by Juyo and surpassed in all its aspects by Vapaad.

The artform in which only Mace Windu has mastered.

Makashi form is the best lightsaber to lightsaber, Vaapad is the best overall.

Although I have to add...

Thank you darthsith19, for defending me, It was very chivalrous of you.
And I'm not trying to disagree with what your saying either, just relaying some knowledge.

No, Vapaad is the best for dueling as well.

If you need to refresh your memory again, refer to what I wrote.

Read it as many times as you need to let the truth sink in...

http://swg.stratics.com/content/gameplay/professions/jedi/lightsaber_combat.php

Read what it says about Makashi

The ultimate refinement of lightsaber-to-lightsaber combat

Yeah, it was.

Before Vapaad .

Vapaad is now the ultimate refinement.

By the way...

When those articles were written Vapaad wasn't even created yet.

Vapaad has surpassed Makashi as a dueling art.

No, as you can see, Vaapad already exists, it is known and Makashi is sill the best form for lightsaber fights.

Where does it say "Vapaad" in that article?

Nowhere.

I remember seeing that article when it came out on the site.

Only Juyo is mentioned, and it actually rivals Makashi.

But, as has been said, Vapaad surpasses it.

Any questions?

Class dismissed.

Mace wins by a head.

Mace Windu is the winner.

The article talks about Mace Windu and we know he mastered Vaapad.

Form VII master Mace Windu fights alongside Form III practitioner Obi-Wan Kenobi in the Battle of Geonosis. This spiritually dangerous regimen cuts perilously close to the Sith intensity of focus on physical combat ability. Mace Windu is one of the only current practitioners of Form VII.

That's right.

And when the article refers to Form VII, It's refering to Juyo, not Vapaad.

Sounds like you need to do some hard research and deepen your knowledge on lightsaber Forms.

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Lightsaber_combat#The_seven_forms_of_lightsaber_combat

I know its Wokipedia, but Vaapad imentioned and it still says makashi is the best for lightsaber fights.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lightsaber_combat

Is there a link that stated that Vapaad is the best form for dueling?

It depends on the ligtsaber form, how you are going to fight, but how good you are depends on the practitioner. Sora Bulq was a Vaapad user and Dooku would probably defeat him easily.

I agree that Vapaad is the best lightsaber form, but I doubt if it is the best form for dueling...