Who better to tier heroes . . .?

SUB-SKYFATHER
Darkseid, Despero, The Doctor, Doctor Fate, Doctor Strange,
The General (Shaggy Man) Ion (current), The Keeper, Mangog,
The Mask, Thanos, Tyrant (powered down), Doomsday

HERALD
Absorbing Man (sans CIS), Adam Warlock, Alan Scott, Apollo,
Beta Ray Bill, Binary, Black Adam, Captain Marvel (DC),
Doomsday, Firelord, Eradicator, Gladiator, General Zod,
Graviton, Green Lantern, Hyperion, Infinity Man, Lobo, Loki,
Majestic, Mar-Vell, Martian Manhunter, Mon-El, Morg, Orion,
Quasar, Sentry, Silver Surfer, Stardust, Supergirl, Superman,
Superman Blue/Red, Terrax, Thor,

SUB-HERALD
Animal Man, Apocalypse, Aquaman, Black Bolt, Box, Breach,
Cable (FP), Captain Atom, Darkness, Doctor Doom (w/magic),
Doctor Light, Engineer, Exodus, He-Man, Hercules (immortal),
Holocaust, Hulk, Jack Hawksmoor (city), Juggernaut, Invincible,
Karate Kid, Magneto, Mandarin, Matrix Supergirl, Meggan,
Nate Grey, Pitt, Raven, Sersi, Shaman, Steel, Superboy,
Super Skrull, Ultra Boy, Ultron, Union, Vision, Vulcan,
Wonder Woman, Ronin

MID-TIER
Abomination, Atom Smasher, Beast Boy, Blastaar,
Captain Britain, Colossus, Crystal, Cyborg, Deathlok,
Donna Troy, Emma Frost, Gamora, Guardian (I), Ghost Rider,
Havok, Hawkgirl, Hawkman, Human Torch, Invisible Woman,
Iron-Man, Lightning Lad, Maul, Mimic (eXiles), Mister Sinister,
Ms Marvel, Namor, Nova (classic), Omega Red, Psylocke,
Rachel Summers, Rogue, Sasquatch, She-Hulk, Speedfreek,
Starfire, Storm, Thing, The Tick, Thunderstrike, Toxin,
War Machine, Wonder Girl, Wonder Man, Iceman

ENHANCED
Angel, Azrael, Beast, Bruenor Battlehammer, Bullseye, Cyclops,
Deathstroke, Drizzt Do'Urden, Gambit, Iron Fist, Killer Croc,
Lady Deathstrike, Luke Cage, Midnighter, Morlun, Mystique,
Sabretooth, Spider-Man, Venom, Wolverine, Wulfgar

STREET
Arsenal, Batgirl, Batman, Black Panther, Captain America,
Daredevil, Elektra, Green Arrow, Grifter, Hawkeye, Nick Fury,
Nightwing, Moon Knight, Punisher, Swift, Taskmaster, Turok,
Wildcat,

Originally posted by Alfheim
It doesnt have to be stated anywhere????? How much can Namor lift out of water and in water. *waits for it*

why does that matter........

capt never been referrence as beyond peakhuman......

ever. even in his own dam comics........

Originally posted by capt it up
why does that matter........

capt never been referrence as beyond peakhuman......

ever. even in his own dam comics........

My point is Namor has been refernced as his strength level being below class 100 for YEARS... I dont know about now....but we know that he is class 100 because of his feats.

Caps strength feats for starters put him beyond peak human.

Oh and just because I want to say how I rate power levels.

I have three classes that are redivided into three subgroups each.

Top-Tier:
High Top-tier: Doctor Strange, Silver Surfer
Middle Top-tier: Superman, Thor
Low Top-tier: Hulk, Juggernaut

Mid-Tier:
High Mid-tier: Ironman, Magneto, Namor
Medium Mid-tier: Thing, Ms Marvel
Low Mid-tier: Venom, Rhino

Low-Tier:
High Low-tier: Deathstroke, Sabertooth, Spiderman
Mid Low-tier: Captain America, Kingpin
Low Mid-tier: Robin, Bucky

Originally posted by Alfheim
My point is Namor has been refernced as his strength level being below class 100 for YEARS... I dont know about now....but we know that he is class 100 because of his feats.

Caps strength feats for starters put him beyond peak human.

namor never ben refferenced in his comics as being less then 100 tons.......big difference..........

SUB-SKYFATHER
Despero, Thanos, The Keeper, Dr. Strange (Classic), The Doctor, Mangog, Darkseid, Dr. Fate, Current Ion, The General (Shaggy Man), Tyrant (powered down), The Mask, onslaught, gog

HERALD
morg, terrax, strong lanterns, thor, sentry, Surfer, Adam Warlock, Loki, Gladiator, Quasar, Majestic, Apollo, Graviton, Orion, Infinity-Man, Alan Scott, Absorbing Man (sans CIS), Superman, Cpt. Marvel (DC), Superman Blue/Red, Beta Ray Bill, Hyperion, Doomsday, Binary, General Zod, Mon-El, Supergirl, Stardust, Black Adam, Eradicator, Firelord, Original Lobo,Martian Manhunter, Fernus, Supreme (Leifeld), genis-vell, red shift, waverider

SUB-HERALD
magneto, apocalypse, , captain atom, sersi, Nate Grey, Hulk, Mandarin, Holocaust, Ultron, Super Skrull, FP Cable, Black Bolt, Engineer, Jack Hawksmoor (in city), Juggernaut, Vision, Mar-vell, Breach, He-Man, Hercules (Immortal), Raven, Aquaman, Superboy, Box, Animal Man, Darkness, Dr. Doom (w/magic), Wonder Woman, Invincible, Steel, Mimic (Exiles), Shaman, Sasquatch, Vulcan, Karate Kid, Ultra Boy, Matrix Supergirl, Dr. Light, Pitt, Union, prime, grodd, hector hammond, dr polaris, kalibak, maxima, mongul

MID-TIER
ironman, colossus, thing, starfire, Thing, Abomination, Wonder Man, Namor, Ghost Rider, Rogue, Storm, Maul, ms. marvel, Blastaar, Cpt. Britain, Cyborg, Donna Troy, Wondergirl, Gamora, Hawkman/Girl, Invisible Woman, Guardian I, Classic Nova, Deathlok, Speedfreek, She-Hulk, Atom Smasher, War Machine, Human Torch, The Tick, Thunderstrike, Toxin, Lightning Lad, Havok, Mr. Sinister, Omega Red, Beast Boy, metallo, box

ENHANCED
wolverine, killer croc, luke cage, deathstroke, spider-man, Venom, Midnighter, angel, sabertooth, Morlun, Beast, Cyclops, Drizzt Do'Urden, Bruenor Battlehammer, Wulfgar, Azrael, Lady Deathstrike, Iron Fist, Beast, Bullseye, Gambit

STREET
batman, daredevil, nightwing, hawkeye, moon-knight, Green arrow, Captain America, Swift, Grifter, Turok, Wildcat, Taskmaster, Electra, Batgirl, Black Panther, Nick Fury, Mystique, Punisher, joker, penguin, riddler

looks pretty good. maybe a couple fuzzy picks. i DO think supes is herald, lp, but i DO question whether aquaman is actually sub-herald though . . . maybe mid-tier?

here are a few for people to try and categorize:

fallen one
extremis ironman
storm
prof x
emma frost
1M characters
vandal savage
bane
arsenal
damage
quicksilver
flash
black tarantula
wendigo
hyperstorm
cobalt blue (flash villain)
zauriel
magenta
shade (DC)
brainiac
hank henshawe
nightcrawler
creeper

lots more out there. 🙂

Originally posted by capt it up
namor never ben refferenced in his comics as being less then 100 tons.......big difference..........

Yeah well how can Cap be peak human, when he constantly has strength feats that are beyond peak human ie 1000lbs.

Obvoulsy the comic was wrong. Hell Wolverine has been knocked out by a deer, so that means we should take that seriously too?

Originally posted by Newjak
Oh and just because I want to say how I rate power levels.

I have three classes that are redivided into three subgroups each.

Top-Tier:
High Top-tier: Doctor Strange, Silver Surfer
Middle Top-tier: Superman, Thor
Low Top-tier: Hulk, Juggernaut

Mid-Tier:
High Mid-tier: Ironman, Magneto, Namor
Medium Mid-tier: Thing, Ms Marvel
Low Mid-tier: Venom, Rhino

Low-Tier:
High Low-tier: Deathstroke, Sabertooth, Spiderman
Mid Low-tier: Captain America, Kingpin
Low Mid-tier: Robin, Bucky

Originally posted by Alfheim
Yeah well how can Cap be peak human, when he constantly has strength feats that are beyond peak human ie 1000lbs.

Obvoulsy the comic was wrong. Hell Wolverine has been knocked out by a deer, so that means we should take that seriously too?

capt stated as peakhuman in comics and hand books.....

capt never been stated in either as beyond peakhuman........

Originally posted by capt it up
llogan no stated to be taken down by deers......

You are deliberatly not getting my point. The point is regardless of wether its a statement or an event just because it happens in a comic doesnt mean that it should be taken seriously...get it?

Originally posted by capt it up

capt stated as peakhuman in comics and hand books.....

capt never been stated in either as beyond peakhuman........

So what im gonna have to repeat myself again? Cap has loads of feats beyond peak human, especially in the strength range. Therefore anybody that says that Cap is peak human in bio or a comic is talking rubbish.

SUB-SKYFATHER
Despero, Thanos, The Keeper, Dr. Strange (Classic), The Doctor, Mangog, Darkseid, Dr. Fate, Current Ion, The General (Shaggy Man), Tyrant (powered down), The Mask, onslaught, gog, Superman 1 Million, Sentinel (Alan Scott), Validus

HERALD
morg, terrax, Green Lantern (Hal, Kyle, Alan), thor, sentry, Surfer, Adam Warlock, Loki, Gladiator, Quasar, Majestic, Apollo, Graviton, Orion, Infinity-Man, Absorbing Man (sans CIS), Superman, Cpt. Marvel (DC), Superman Blue/Red, Beta Ray Bill, Hyperion, Doomsday, Binary, General Zod, Mon-El, Supergirl, Stardust, Black Adam, Eradicator, Firelord, Original Lobo,Martian Manhunter, Fernus, Supreme (Leifeld), genis-vell, red shift, waverider, The Fallen One, The Flash III (Wally West), The Flash IV (Bart Allen), Sinestro, Cyborg Superman

SUB-HERALD
magneto, apocalypse, , captain atom, sersi, Nate Grey, Hulk, Mandarin, Holocaust, Ultron, Super Skrull, FP Cable, Black Bolt, Engineer, Jack Hawksmoor (in city), Juggernaut, Vision, Mar-vell, Breach, He-Man, Hercules (Immortal), Raven, Aquaman, Superboy, Box, Animal Man, Darkness, Dr. Doom (w/magic), Wonder Woman, Invincible, Steel, Mimic (Exiles), Shaman, Sasquatch, Vulcan, Karate Kid, Ultra Boy, Matrix Supergirl, Dr. Light, Pitt, Union, prime, grodd, hector hammond, dr polaris, kalibak, maxima, mongul, The Flash II (Barry Allen), Jade, Green Lantern (Guy/John)

MID-TIER
ironman, colossus, thing, starfire, Thing, Abomination, Wonder Man, Namor, Ghost Rider, Rogue, Storm, Maul, ms. marvel, Blastaar, Cpt. Britain, Cyborg, Donna Troy, Wondergirl, Gamora, Hawkman/Girl, Invisible Woman, Guardian I, Classic Nova, Deathlok, Speedfreek, She-Hulk, Atom Smasher, War Machine, Human Torch, The Tick, Thunderstrike, Toxin, Lightning Lad, Havok, Mr. Sinister, Omega Red, Beast Boy, metallo, box, The Flash I (Jay Garrick)

ENHANCED
wolverine, killer croc, luke cage, deathstroke, spider-man, Venom, Midnighter, angel, sabertooth, Morlun, Beast, Cyclops, Drizzt Do'Urden, Bruenor Battlehammer, Wulfgar, Azrael, Lady Deathstrike, Iron Fist, Beast, Bullseye, Gambit

STREET
batman, daredevil, nightwing, hawkeye, moon-knight, Green arrow, Captain America, Swift, Grifter, Turok, Wildcat, Taskmaster, Electra, Batgirl, Black Panther, Nick Fury, Mystique, Punisher, joker, penguin, riddler

Originally posted by Alfheim
You are deliberatly not getting my point. The point is regardless of wether its a statement or an event just because it happens in a comic doesnt mean that it should be taken seriously...get it?

So what im gonna have to repeat myself again? Cap has loads of feats beyond peak human, especially in the strength range. Therefore anybody that says that Cap is peak human in bio or a comic is talking rubbish.

it stated many many times that capt a peakhuman......all the tiem actaully.......

it his character he was designed to be a peakhuman and he has been stated since then to be a peakhuman........not really up for debate my friend

well capt been stated consistently in comcis as peakhuman.... he was designed as a peakhuman.........

capt strength feats are rubbish.........1,100 pounds is not impressive......

oh and capt is street level not enchanced.........

Originally posted by Validus
This is what I was alluding to on Page 1.

Originally posted by capt it up
it stated many many times that capt a peakhuman......all the tiem actaully.......

it his character he was designed to be a peakhuman and he has been stated since then to be a peakhuman........not really up for debate my friend

well capt been stated consistently in comcis as peakhuman.... he was designed as a peakhuman.........

That doesnt matter because his feats exceed peak human consistently through the years. DD has been stated as being athletic and his feats exceed athletic also.

Originally posted by capt it up

capt strength feats are rubbish.........1,100 pounds is not impressive......

Thats not the point. He did reps with 1100 which means his minimum under no duress is 1500. Regardless of wether you think its crap or not that is superhuman strength.

Originally posted by capt it up
oh and capt is street level not enchanced.........

What the **** do you call SSS. Oh yeah and Cap has been described as being enhanced as well.

SUB-SKYFATHER
Despero, Thanos, The Keeper, Dr. Strange (Classic), The Doctor, Mangog, Darkseid, Dr. Fate, Current Ion, The General (Shaggy Man), Tyrant (powered down), The Mask, onslaught, gog, Superman 1 Million, Sentinel (Alan Scott), Validus

HERALD
morg, terrax, Green Lantern (Hal, Kyle, Alan), thor, sentry, Surfer, Adam Warlock, Loki, Gladiator, Quasar, Majestic, Apollo, Graviton, Orion, Infinity-Man, Absorbing Man (sans CIS), Superman, Cpt. Marvel (DC), Superman Blue/Red, Beta Ray Bill, Hyperion, Doomsday, Binary, General Zod, Mon-El, Supergirl, Stardust, Black Adam, Eradicator, Firelord, Original Lobo, Martian Manhunter, Fernus, Supreme (Leifeld), genis-vell, red shift, waverider, The Fallen One, The Flash III (Wally West), The Flash IV (Bart Allen), Sinestro, Cyborg Superman

SUB-HERALD
magneto, apocalypse, , captain atom, sersi, Nate Grey, Hulk, Mandarin, Holocaust, Ultron, Super Skrull, FP Cable, Black Bolt, Engineer, Jack Hawksmoor (in city), Juggernaut, Vision, Mar-vell, Breach, He-Man, Hercules (Immortal), Raven, Aquaman, Superboy, Animal Man, Darkness, Dr. Doom (w/magic), Wonder Woman, Invincible, Steel, Mimic (Exiles), Shaman, Sasquatch, Vulcan, Karate Kid, Ultra Boy, Matrix Supergirl, Dr. Light, Pitt, Union, prime, grodd, hector hammond, dr polaris, kalibak, maxima, mongul, The Flash II (Barry Allen), Jade, Green Lantern (Guy/John), Selene (External), Circe (DC)

MID-TIER
ironman, colossus, thing, starfire, Thing, Abomination, Wonder Man, Namor, Ghost Rider, Rogue, Storm, Maul, ms. marvel, Blastaar, Cpt. Britain, Cyborg, Donna Troy, Wondergirl, Gamora, Hawkman/Girl, Invisible Woman, Guardian I, Classic Nova, Deathlok, Speedfreek, She-Hulk, Atom Smasher, War Machine, Human Torch, The Tick, Thunderstrike, Toxin, Lightning Lad, Havok, Mr. Sinister, Omega Red, Beast Boy, metallo, box, The Flash I (Jay Garrick), Doc Ock, Venom, Carnage, Atlas, Mister Hyde, Box, Attuma

ENHANCED
wolverine, killer croc, luke cage, deathstroke, spider-man, Midnighter, angel, sabertooth, Morlun, Beast, Cyclops, Drizzt Do'Urden, Bruenor Battlehammer, Wulfgar, Azrael, Lady Deathstrike, Iron Fist, Beast, Bullseye, Gambit, Vulture, Taskmaster, Mysterio, Vermin, Man-Bat

STREET
batman, daredevil, nightwing, hawkeye, moon-knight, Green arrow, Captain America, Swift, Grifter, Turok, Wildcat, Taskmaster, Electra, Batgirl, Black Panther, Nick Fury, Mystique, Punisher, joker, penguin, riddler, Nomad, Nuke, Ra's Al Ghul

what about current electro (heheh -- 'current'😉?

Taskmaster is enhanced?

chamber beat omega red with rocks once. that doesn't mean chamber + rocks = 15 tons of strength. a weaker character beating a stronger character, even in a straight fist-fight, is not a comic rarity. and just because the weaker character wins, that doesnt mean the definition of his or her strength level automatically changes.

the "handbooks are shitty evidence" defense works when you have contrasting, factual evidence to dispute them. in all of sabretooth's appearances, has he performed feats of outright superhuman strength rivaling 25 tons? and, if he has, were these from the time when super-strength was actually defined, or from when daredevil could throw 400 pounds across a room? you have to take into account the context of the comic and the time period when relating it to the current day and trend.

Circe being Sub Herald is iffy. She has it all over top tiers.

SUB-SKYFATHER
Despero, Thanos, The Keeper, Dr. Strange (Classic), The Doctor, Mangog, Darkseid, Dr. Fate, Current Ion, The General (Shaggy Man), Tyrant (powered down), The Mask, onslaught, gog, Superman 1 Million, Sentinel (Alan Scott), Validus

HERALD
morg, terrax, Green Lantern (Hal, Kyle, Alan), thor, sentry, Surfer, Adam Warlock, Loki, Gladiator, Quasar, Majestic, Apollo, Graviton, Orion, Infinity-Man, Absorbing Man (sans CIS), Superman, Cpt. Marvel (DC), Superman Blue/Red, Beta Ray Bill, Hyperion, Doomsday, Binary, General Zod, Mon-El, Supergirl, Stardust, Black Adam, Eradicator, Firelord, Original Lobo, Martian Manhunter, Fernus, Supreme (Leifeld), genis-vell, red shift, waverider, The Fallen One, The Flash III (Wally West), The Flash IV (Bart Allen), Sinestro, Cyborg Superman

SUB-HERALD
magneto, apocalypse, , captain atom, sersi, Nate Grey, Hulk, Mandarin, Holocaust, Ultron, Super Skrull, FP Cable, Black Bolt, Engineer, Jack Hawksmoor (in city), Juggernaut, Vision, Mar-vell, Breach, He-Man, Hercules (Immortal), Raven, Aquaman, Superboy, Animal Man, Darkness, Dr. Doom (w/magic), Wonder Woman, Invincible, Steel, Mimic (Exiles), Shaman, Sasquatch, Vulcan, Karate Kid, Ultra Boy, Matrix Supergirl, Dr. Light, Pitt, Union, prime, grodd, hector hammond, dr polaris, kalibak, maxima, mongul, The Flash II (Barry Allen), Jade, Green Lantern (Guy/John), Selene (External), Circe (DC)

MID-TIER
ironman, colossus, thing, starfire, Thing, Abomination, Wonder Man, Namor, Ghost Rider, Rogue, Storm, Maul, ms. marvel, Blastaar, Cpt. Britain, Cyborg, Donna Troy, Wondergirl, Gamora, Hawkman/Girl, Invisible Woman, Guardian I, Classic Nova, Deathlok, Speedfreek, She-Hulk, Atom Smasher, War Machine, Human Torch, The Tick, Thunderstrike, Toxin, Lightning Lad, Havok, Mr. Sinister, Omega Red, Beast Boy, metallo, box, The Flash I (Jay Garrick), Doc Ock, Venom, Carnage, Atlas, Mister Hyde, Box, Attuma, Thunder, Grace Choi, Shift, Power Girl

ENHANCED
wolverine, killer croc, luke cage, deathstroke, spider-man, Midnighter, angel, sabertooth, Morlun, Beast, Cyclops, Drizzt Do'Urden, Bruenor Battlehammer, Wulfgar, Azrael, Lady Deathstrike, Iron Fist, Beast, Bullseye, Gambit, Vulture, Taskmaster, Mysterio, Vermin, Man-Bat

STREET
batman, daredevil, nightwing, hawkeye, moon-knight, Green arrow, Captain America, Swift, Grifter, Turok, Wildcat, Taskmaster, Electra, Batgirl, Black Panther, Nick Fury, Mystique, Punisher, joker, penguin, riddler, Nomad, Nuke, Ra's Al Ghul, Arsenal/Red Arrow

Originally posted by Disappear
chamber beat omega red with rocks once. that doesn't mean chamber + rocks = 15 tons of strength. a weaker character beating a stronger character, even in a straight fist-fight, is not a comic rarity. and just because the weaker character wins, that doesnt mean the definition of his or her strength level automatically changes.

the "handbooks are shitty evidence" defense works when you have contrasting, factual evidence to dispute them. in all of sabretooth's appearances, has he performed feats of outright superhuman strength rivaling 25 tons? and, if he has, were these from the time when super-strength was actually defined, or from when daredevil could throw 400 pounds across a room? you have to take into account the context of the comic and the time period when relating it to the current day and trend.

I totally agree.