I veto any attempt to start categorizing stuff beyond the "Sub Skyfather" list. I like this thread. I won't have this turn into an abstract scan war.
Also, Magneto might be high-level sub-herald....but there's maybe 1-2 people in the herald list he'd actually be able to beat once in a while. And probably no one he'd take the majority off of. He's where he belongs.
Otherwise, good stuff.
P.S. Kingpin in enhanced isn't a stretch.
SUB-SKYFATHER
Despero, Thanos, The Keeper, Dr. Strange (Classic), The Doctor, Mangog, Darkseid, Dr. Fate, Current Ion, The General (Shaggy Man), Tyrant (powered down), The Mask, onslaught, gog, Superman 1 Million, Sentinel (Alan Scott), Validus
HERALD
morg, terrax, Green Lantern (Hal, Kyle, Alan), thor, sentry, Surfer, Adam Warlock, Loki, Gladiator, Quasar, Majestic, Apollo, Graviton, Orion, Infinity-Man, Absorbing Man (sans CIS), Superman, Cpt. Marvel (DC), Superman Blue/Red, Beta Ray Bill, Hyperion, Doomsday, Binary, General Zod, Mon-El, Supergirl, Stardust, Black Adam, Eradicator, Firelord, Original Lobo, Martian Manhunter, Fernus, Supreme (Leifeld), genis-vell, red shift, waverider, The Fallen One, The Flash III (Wally West), The Flash IV (Bart Allen), Sinestro, Cyborg Superman
SUB-HERALD
magneto, apocalypse, , captain atom, sersi, Nate Grey, Hulk, Mandarin, Holocaust, Ultron, Super Skrull, FP Cable, Black Bolt, Engineer, Jack Hawksmoor (in city), Juggernaut, Vision, Mar-vell, Breach, He-Man, Hercules (Immortal), Raven, Aquaman, Superboy, Animal Man, Darkness, Dr. Doom (w/magic), Wonder Woman, Invincible, Steel, Mimic (Exiles), Shaman, Sasquatch, Vulcan, Karate Kid, Ultra Boy, Matrix Supergirl, Dr. Light, Pitt, Union, prime, grodd, hector hammond, dr polaris, kalibak, maxima, mongul, The Flash II (Barry Allen), Jade, Green Lantern (Guy/John), Selene (External), Circe (DC)
MID-TIER
ironman, colossus, thing, starfire, Thing, Abomination, Wonder Man, Namor, Ghost Rider, Rogue, Storm, Maul, ms. marvel, Blastaar, Cpt. Britain, Cyborg, Donna Troy, Wondergirl, Gamora, Hawkman/Girl, Invisible Woman, Guardian I, Classic Nova, Deathlok, Speedfreek, She-Hulk, Atom Smasher, War Machine, Human Torch, The Tick, Thunderstrike, Toxin, Lightning Lad, Havok, Mr. Sinister, Omega Red, Beast Boy, metallo, box, The Flash I (Jay Garrick), Doc Ock, Venom, Carnage, Atlas, Mister Hyde, Box, Attuma, Thunder, Grace Choi, Shift, Power Girl, Aegis
ENHANCED
wolverine, killer croc, luke cage, deathstroke, spider-man, Midnighter, angel, sabertooth, Morlun, Beast, Cyclops, Drizzt Do'Urden, Bruenor Battlehammer, Wulfgar, Azrael, Lady Deathstrike, Iron Fist, Beast, Bullseye, Gambit, Taskmaster, Vulture, Mysterio, Vermin, Man-Bat, Orka Humbug, Spiderwoman, Arachne, Arana, Kingpin, Silver Samurai
STREET
batman, daredevil, nightwing, hawkeye, moon-knight, Green arrow, Captain America, Swift, Grifter, Turok, Wildcat, Taskmaster, Electra, Batgirl, Black Panther, Nick Fury, Mystique, Punisher, joker, penguin, riddler, Nomad, Nuke, Ra's Al Ghul, Arsenal/Red Arrow, Black Cat, Catwoman, Echo, Misty Knight, Shang Chi, Coleen Wing, Black Widow
Originally posted by UniOmni
Herald level doesn't exist.
well, of course it exists. it's in my thread. 😉 you can do your own hierarchy and call it herald class. 🙂
aside from that, i agree with pretty much all of your points. i've seen some infinity man appearances so i can't definitively say he is or is not usually portrayed beyond herald. i would tend to doubt he would be shown consistently above surfer, but maybe.
superman has simply done too much NOT to be at herald level. if we throw in t-vo . . . 😬
i agree that ww is NOT at herald, but she is very close and could take some heralds. she could be low-end herald imo.
polaris, light and magneto are below herald as well, imo, though again, not far off. ss has demonstrated MOLECULAR control of an entire planett -- that feat alone is well beyond anything those 3 could achieve, and durability feats of heralds (surving planetary -- and in some cases BEYOND planetary -- destruction) are well beyond what these guys could deal with on a regular basis. i see those guys as the boundary point between herald and sub-herald. in general they have planetary level feats -- most heralds have stellar level or greater.
Originally posted by Evil_Ash
Ok, the High Evolutionary should be Sub-Skyfather level. Since he has fought against Galactus & Chthon, and then there's that scan I posted...
😬 By HighEv wouldn't do well against the guys at SubSkyfather.
On another note I think we should switch SubSkyfather to MaxTier or something since we have people there who are Skyfather level.
Originally posted by Evil_Ash
Ok, the High Evolutionary should be Sub-Skyfather level. Since he has fought against Galactus & Chthon, and then there's that scan I posted...And Captain Atom should be at Herald level...
i agree with evolutionary -- i thought i'd placed him in that category but must have forgotten. i disagree with atom being herald. i see him with light, mags and polaris and non-elemental firestorm as just below herald. 😬
SUB-SKYFATHER
Despero, Thanos, The Keeper, Dr. Strange (Classic), The Doctor, Mangog, Darkseid, Dr. Fate, Current Ion, The General (Shaggy Man), Tyrant (powered down), The Mask, onslaught, gog, Superman 1 Million, Sentinel (Alan Scott), Validus, High Evolutionary
HERALD
morg, terrax, Green Lantern (Hal, Kyle, Alan), thor, sentry, Surfer, Adam Warlock, Loki, Gladiator, Quasar, Majestic, Apollo, Graviton, Orion, Infinity-Man, Absorbing Man (sans CIS), Superman, Cpt. Marvel (DC), Superman Blue/Red, Beta Ray Bill, Hyperion, Doomsday, Binary, General Zod, Mon-El, Supergirl, Stardust, Black Adam, Eradicator, Firelord, Original Lobo, Martian Manhunter, Fernus, Supreme (Leifeld), genis-vell, red shift, waverider, The Fallen One, The Flash III (Wally West), The Flash IV (Bart Allen), Sinestro, Cyborg Superman
SUB-HERALD
magneto, apocalypse, , captain atom, sersi, Nate Grey, Hulk, Mandarin, Holocaust, Ultron, Super Skrull, FP Cable, Black Bolt, Engineer, Jack Hawksmoor (in city), Juggernaut, Vision, Mar-vell, Breach, He-Man, Hercules (Immortal), Raven, Aquaman, Superboy, Animal Man, Darkness, Dr. Doom (w/magic), Wonder Woman, Invincible, Steel, Mimic (Exiles), Shaman, Sasquatch, Vulcan, Karate Kid, Ultra Boy, Matrix Supergirl, Dr. Light, Pitt, Union, prime, grodd, hector hammond, dr polaris, kalibak, maxima, mongul, The Flash II (Barry Allen), Jade, Green Lantern (Guy/John), Selene (External), Circe (DC)
MID-TIER
ironman, colossus, thing, starfire, Thing, Abomination, Wonder Man, Namor, Ghost Rider, Rogue, Storm, Maul, ms. marvel, Blastaar, Cpt. Britain, Cyborg, Donna Troy, Wondergirl, Gamora, Hawkman/Girl, Invisible Woman, Guardian I, Classic Nova, Deathlok, Speedfreek, She-Hulk, Atom Smasher, War Machine, Human Torch, The Tick, Thunderstrike, Toxin, Lightning Lad, Havok, Mr. Sinister, Omega Red, Beast Boy, metallo, box, The Flash I (Jay Garrick), Doc Ock, Venom, Carnage, Atlas, Mister Hyde, Box, Attuma, Thunder, Grace Choi, Shift, Power Girl, Aegis
ENHANCED
wolverine, killer croc, luke cage, deathstroke, spider-man, Midnighter, angel, sabertooth, Morlun, Beast, Cyclops, Drizzt Do'Urden, Bruenor Battlehammer, Wulfgar, Azrael, Lady Deathstrike, Iron Fist, Beast, Bullseye, Gambit, Taskmaster, Vulture, Mysterio, Vermin, Man-Bat, Orka Humbug, Spiderwoman, Arachne, Arana, Kingpin, Silver Samurai
STREET
batman, daredevil, nightwing, hawkeye, moon-knight, Green arrow, Captain America, Swift, Grifter, Turok, Wildcat, Taskmaster, Electra, Batgirl, Black Panther, Nick Fury, Mystique, Punisher, joker, penguin, riddler, Nomad, Nuke, Ra's Al Ghul, Arsenal/Red Arrow, Black Cat, Catwoman, Echo, Misty Knight, Shang Chi, Coleen Wing, Black Widow
Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
😬 By HighEv wouldn't do well against the guys at SubSkyfather.On another note I think we should switch SubSkyfather to MaxTier or something since we have people there who are Skyfather level.
well, he's battled the sphinx and done just fine. he's battled galactus for a short time as well. he is not always written properly, but i've seen enough of his feats to feel safe in saying he can fit in that category.
aside from darkseid -- who should be skyfather -- who else is skyfather on that list?
SUB-SKYFATHER
Despero, Thanos, The Keeper, Dr. Strange (Classic), The Doctor, Mangog, Dr. Fate, Current Ion, The General (Shaggy Man), Tyrant (powered down), The Mask, onslaught, gog, Superman 1 Million, Sentinel (Alan Scott), Validus
HERALD
morg, terrax, Green Lantern (Hal, Kyle, Alan), thor, sentry, Surfer, Adam Warlock, Loki, Gladiator, Quasar, Majestic, Apollo, Graviton, Orion, Infinity-Man, Absorbing Man (sans CIS), Superman, Cpt. Marvel (DC), Superman Blue/Red, Beta Ray Bill, Hyperion, Doomsday, Binary, General Zod, Mon-El, Supergirl, Stardust, Black Adam, Eradicator, Firelord, Original Lobo, Martian Manhunter, Fernus, Supreme (Leifeld), genis-vell, red shift, waverider, The Fallen One, The Flash III (Wally West), The Flash IV (Bart Allen), Sinestro, Cyborg Superman
SUB-HERALD
magneto, apocalypse, , captain atom, sersi, Nate Grey, Hulk, Mandarin, Holocaust, Ultron, Super Skrull, FP Cable, Black Bolt, Engineer, Jack Hawksmoor (in city), Juggernaut, Vision, Mar-vell, Breach, He-Man, Hercules (Immortal), Raven, Aquaman, Superboy, Animal Man, Darkness, Dr. Doom (w/magic), Wonder Woman, Invincible, Steel, Mimic (Exiles), Shaman, Sasquatch, Vulcan, Karate Kid, Ultra Boy, Matrix Supergirl, Dr. Light, Pitt, Union, prime, grodd, hector hammond, dr polaris, kalibak, maxima, mongul, The Flash II (Barry Allen), Jade, Green Lantern (Guy/John), Selene (External), Circe (DC)
MID-TIER
ironman, colossus, thing, starfire, Thing, Abomination, Wonder Man, Namor, Ghost Rider, Rogue, Storm, Maul, ms. marvel, Blastaar, Cpt. Britain, Cyborg, Donna Troy, Wondergirl, Gamora, Hawkman/Girl, Invisible Woman, Guardian I, Classic Nova, Deathlok, Speedfreek, She-Hulk, Atom Smasher, War Machine, Human Torch, The Tick, Thunderstrike, Toxin, Lightning Lad, Havok, Mr. Sinister, Omega Red, Beast Boy, metallo, box, The Flash I (Jay Garrick), Doc Ock, Venom, Carnage, Atlas, Mister Hyde, Box, Attuma, Thunder, Grace Choi, Shift, Power Girl, Aegis
ENHANCED
wolverine, killer croc, luke cage, deathstroke, spider-man, Midnighter, angel, sabertooth, Morlun, Beast, Cyclops, Drizzt Do'Urden, Bruenor Battlehammer, Wulfgar, Azrael, Lady Deathstrike, Iron Fist, Beast, Bullseye, Gambit, Taskmaster, Vulture, Mysterio, Vermin, Man-Bat, Orka Humbug, Spiderwoman, Arachne, Arana, Kingpin, Silver Samurai
STREET
batman, daredevil, nightwing, hawkeye, moon-knight, Green arrow, Captain America, Swift, Grifter, Turok, Wildcat, Taskmaster, Electra, Batgirl, Black Panther, Nick Fury, Mystique, Punisher, joker, penguin, riddler, Nomad, Nuke, Ra's Al Ghul, Arsenal/Red Arrow, Black Cat, Catwoman, Echo, Misty Knight, Shang Chi, Coleen Wing, Black Widow
I see someone had the balls to list Karate Kid. 😂 I wanted to place him but honestly had no idea where to put him. I guess Sub Herald works. 👆
Someone had a problem with Supergirl being herald level but it's impossible to deny she's been nothing but impressive thus far. She definitely plays on the same level as all other top tier bricks.
SUB-SKYFATHER
Despero, Thanos, The Keeper, Dr. Strange (Classic), The Doctor, Mangog, Dr. Fate, Ion (current), The General (Shaggy Man), Tyrant (powered down), The Mask, onslaught, gog, Superman 1 Million, Sentinel (Alan Scott), Validus
HERALD
morg, terrax, Green Lantern (Hal, Kyle, Alan), thor, sentry, Surfer, Adam Warlock, Loki, Gladiator, Quasar, Majestic, Apollo, Graviton, Orion, Infinity-Man, Absorbing Man (sans CIS), Superman, Cpt. Marvel (DC), Superman Blue/Red, Beta Ray Bill, Hyperion, Doomsday, Binary, General Zod, Mon-El, Supergirl, Stardust, Black Adam, Eradicator, Firelord, Original Lobo, Martian Manhunter, Fernus, Supreme (Leifeld), genis-vell, red shift, waverider, The Fallen One, The Flash III (Wally West), The Flash IV (Bart Allen), Sinestro, Cyborg Superman, Spartan 3.0
SUB-HERALD
magneto, apocalypse, , captain atom, sersi, Nate Grey, Hulk, Mandarin, Holocaust, Ultron, Super Skrull, FP Cable, Black Bolt, Engineer, Jack Hawksmoor (in city), Juggernaut, Vision, Mar-vell, Breach, He-Man, Hercules (Immortal), Raven, Aquaman, Superboy, Animal Man, Darkness, Dr. Doom (w/magic), Wonder Woman, Invincible, Steel, Mimic (Exiles), Shaman, Sasquatch, Vulcan, Karate Kid, Ultra Boy, Matrix Supergirl, Dr. Light, Pitt, Union, prime, grodd, hector hammond, dr polaris, kalibak, maxima, mongul, The Flash II (Barry Allen), Jade, Green Lantern (Guy/John), Selene (External), Circe (DC), Jericho
MID-TIER
ironman, colossus, thing, starfire, Thing, Abomination, Wonder Man, Namor, Ghost Rider, Rogue, Storm, Maul, ms. marvel, Blastaar, Cpt. Britain, Cyborg, Donna Troy, Wondergirl, Gamora, Hawkman/Girl, Invisible Woman, Guardian I, Classic Nova, Deathlok, Speedfreek, She-Hulk, Atom Smasher, War Machine, Human Torch, The Tick, Thunderstrike, Toxin, Lightning Lad, Havok, Mr. Sinister, Omega Red, Beast Boy, metallo, box, The Flash I (Jay Garrick), Doc Ock, Venom, Carnage, Atlas, Mister Hyde, Box, Attuma, Thunder, Grace Choi, Shift, Power Girl, Aegis, Mary Marvel, Captain Marvel Jr.
ENHANCED
wolverine, killer croc, luke cage, deathstroke, spider-man, Midnighter, angel, sabertooth, Morlun, Beast, Cyclops, Drizzt Do'Urden, Bruenor Battlehammer, Wulfgar, Azrael, Lady Deathstrike, Iron Fist, Beast, Bullseye, Gambit, Taskmaster, Vulture, Mysterio, Vermin, Man-Bat, Orka Humbug, Spiderwoman, Arachne, Arana, Kingpin, Silver Samurai, Ravager
STREET
batman, daredevil, nightwing, hawkeye, moon-knight, Green arrow, Captain America, Swift, Grifter, Turok, Wildcat, Taskmaster, Electra, Batgirl, Black Panther, Nick Fury, Mystique, Punisher, joker, penguin, riddler, Nomad, Nuke, Ra's Al Ghul, Arsenal/Red Arrow, Black Cat, Catwoman, Echo, Misty Knight, Shang Chi, Coleen Wing, Black Widow, Robin
Originally posted by Validus
I see CA as a guy with herald level power but who doesn't always play at that level. Kind of like a lesser Green Lantern in that respect.
👆
i was afraid of KK too. 😄
atom in the q-field would be well beyond our tiers. going by most consistent showings, i think sub herald is pretty accurate for him. don't forget -- that doesn't mean he can't take some heralds. 😉
spartan is a nice addition, btw. 🙂
SUB-SKYFATHER
Despero, Thanos, The Keeper, Dr. Strange (Classic), The Doctor, Mangog, Dr. Fate, Ion (current), The General (Shaggy Man), Tyrant (powered down), The Mask, onslaught, gog, Superman 1 Million, Sentinel (Alan Scott), Validus
HERALD
morg, terrax, Green Lantern (Hal, Kyle, Alan), thor, sentry, Surfer, Adam Warlock, Loki, Gladiator, Quasar, Majestic, Apollo, Graviton, Orion, Infinity-Man, Absorbing Man (sans CIS), Superman, Cpt. Marvel (DC), Superman Blue/Red, Beta Ray Bill, Hyperion, Doomsday, Binary, General Zod, Mon-El, Supergirl, Stardust, Black Adam, Eradicator, Firelord, Original Lobo, Martian Manhunter, Fernus, Supreme (Leifeld), genis-vell, red shift, waverider, The Fallen One, The Flash III (Wally West), The Flash IV (Bart Allen), Sinestro, Cyborg Superman, Spartan 3.0, Void
SUB-HERALD
magneto, apocalypse, , captain atom, sersi, Nate Grey, Hulk, Mandarin, Holocaust, Ultron, Super Skrull, FP Cable, Black Bolt, Engineer, Jack Hawksmoor (in city), Juggernaut, Vision, Mar-vell, Breach, He-Man, Hercules (Immortal), Raven, Aquaman, Superboy, Animal Man, Darkness, Dr. Doom (w/magic), Wonder Woman, Invincible, Steel, Mimic (Exiles), Shaman, Sasquatch, Vulcan, Karate Kid, Ultra Boy, Matrix Supergirl, Dr. Light, Pitt, Union, prime, grodd, hector hammond, dr polaris, kalibak, maxima, mongul, The Flash II (Barry Allen), Jade, Green Lantern (Guy/John), Selene (External), Circe (DC), Jericho
MID-TIER
ironman, colossus, thing, starfire, Thing, Abomination, Wonder Man, Namor, Ghost Rider, Rogue, Storm, Maul, ms. marvel, Blastaar, Cpt. Britain, Cyborg, Donna Troy, Wondergirl, Gamora, Hawkman/Girl, Invisible Woman, Guardian I, Classic Nova, Deathlok, Speedfreek, She-Hulk, Atom Smasher, War Machine, Human Torch, The Tick, Thunderstrike, Toxin, Lightning Lad, Havok, Mr. Sinister, Omega Red, Beast Boy, metallo, box, The Flash I (Jay Garrick), Doc Ock, Venom, Carnage, Atlas, Mister Hyde, Box, Attuma, Thunder, Grace Choi, Shift, Power Girl, Aegis, Mary Marvel, Captain Marvel Jr
ENHANCED
wolverine, killer croc, luke cage, deathstroke, spider-man, Midnighter, angel, sabertooth, Morlun, Beast, Cyclops, Drizzt Do'Urden, Bruenor Battlehammer, Wulfgar, Azrael, Lady Deathstrike, Iron Fist, Beast, Bullseye, Gambit, Taskmaster, Vulture, Mysterio, Vermin, Man-Bat, Orka Humbug, Spiderwoman, Arachne, Arana, Kingpin, Silver Samurai, Ravager
STREET
batman, daredevil, nightwing, hawkeye, moon-knight, Green arrow, Captain America, Swift, Grifter, Turok, Wildcat, Taskmaster, Electra, Batgirl, Black Panther, Nick Fury, Mystique, Punisher, joker, penguin, riddler, Nomad, Nuke, Ra's Al Ghul, Arsenal/Red Arrow, Black Cat, Catwoman, Echo, Misty Knight, Shang Chi, Coleen Wing, Black Widow, Robin
hey val, where would you consistently rate AMAZO? herald or sub herald?
You forgot the High Evolutionary in your list... 😠 😛
Originally posted by leonidas
i think sub herald is pretty accurate for him. don't forget -- that doesn't mean he can't take some heralds. 😉
CA is pretty much above most of the people on the Herald list in terms of powers. He's also on par with likes of Superman strength wise.