Storm vs Magneto pt 2

Started by Rutog9868 pages

Originally posted by Swanky-Tuna

You never explained what my motive would be to waste time "struggling" to "downplay" Storm.

Obviously, because you have a problem with her having the power levels she does have. BTW, I don't spend a lot of time reasoning out how powerful she is. There are tons of issues that support me. I merely have to state the issues as I do.

In regards to your not mentioning Storm at all, it was certainly implied...at least to me. If I am wrong, which I may be, then I take it back. However, I don't think that I am wrong. I hope she clean's SS's clock.

Originally posted by boriquaking55
Being able to control the entire electromagnetic spectrum, Magneto is essentially what Storm wishes she could be and he has incredible versatility when written correctly. This thread is ridiculous.

LOL! I can't believe people actually spout this about Magneto as if its something to brag about. The man's primary power is magnetism. He is not impressive with any other energy. Storm has gone far beyond MAgneto's biggest feats with magnetism...his biggest feats period time and again.

http://www.atomicarchive.com/Effects/effects4.shtml

http://www.eas.asu.edu/~holbert/eee460/cjc/Blast_Wave_Damage.html

Blast Wave info.

I do believe beyond a shadow of a doubt that it takes WAAAY more than F5 winds to suspend a structure the size Ororo did.

An F5 Tornado is like a 10 psi nuke.

She not only lifted the building, she did it in such a way that it didn't even crumble or lose structural integrity.

Originally posted by 2damnloud
http://www.atomicarchive.com/Effects/effects4.shtml

http://www.eas.asu.edu/~holbert/eee460/cjc/Blast_Wave_Damage.html

Blast Wave info.

I do believe beyond a shadow of a doubt that it takes WAAAY more than F5 winds to suspend a structure the size Ororo did.

An F5 Tornado is like a 10 psi nuke.

Nice. Very nice. I have researched hurricanes, tornadoes and weather for years. (I have not recently, though) and I know what STorm pulled in the Storm/Torch fight was well beyond any real life hurricane or tornado. In fact, I showed that issue back when I was still an undergraduate to a friend of mine who was a PHD Physics person and some science professors. (I know, kinda nerdy) and they all said that the winds she generated there was far beyond any hurricane or tornado. I have been debating stuff like this for years with fanboys on the internet in my spare time.

Originally posted by Rutog98
Obviously, because you have a problem with her having the power levels she does have. BTW, I don't spend a lot of time reasoning out how powerful she is. There are tons of issues that support me. I merely have to state the issues as I do.

But why would I care enough about Storm to try to "defraud" her of her "rightful" powers to the only two people who believe Storm is at these absurd levels? This is just what I see on the page as I interpret them. And whether it's on purpose or not, I think you guys' interpretations are completely over the top. You two constantly state that the comics back you up but those are the very things you two are skewing.

In regards to your not mentioning Storm at all, it was certainly implied...at least to me. If I am wrong, which I may be, then I take it back. However, I don't think that I am wrong. I hope she clean's SS's clock.

It was a comment based on how much of a mook Surfer can be. I do think Surfer would just plow through her if he wanted to. Especially if he was just upgraded not too long ago.

Originally posted by Rutog98
In fact, I showed that issue back when I was still an undergraduate to a friend of mine who was a PHD Physics person and some science professors. (I know, kinda nerdy) and they all said that the winds she generated there was far beyond any hurricane or tornado.

Is this supposed to be more impressive because he has a degree in an unrelated field?

Originally posted by Rutog98
Nice. Very nice. I have researched hurricanes, tornadoes and weather for years. (I have not recently, though) and I know what STorm pulled in the Storm/Torch fight was well beyond any real life hurricane or tornado. In fact, I showed that issue back when I was still an undergraduate to a friend of mine who was a PHD Physics person and some science professors. (I know, kinda nerdy) and they all said that the winds she generated there was far beyond any hurricane or tornado. I have been debating stuff like this for years with fanboys on the internet in my spare time.

What did the learned people actually say about the winds? Did they give an estimation?

Originally posted by Swanky-Tuna

Is this supposed to be more impressive because he has a degree in an unrelated field?

Do you understand now? 😘

You pretty much mock everything and quickly write it off, especially when I may come from an authoratative source.

πŸ˜†@Physics not being related to the physical effects of winds on structures.

Do you get it now? πŸ™„

Sometimes you seem to try too hard.

Originally posted by Swanky-Tuna
But why would I care enough about Storm to try to "defraud" her of her "rightful" powers to the only two people who believe Storm is at these absurd levels? This is just what I see on the page as I interpret them. And whether it's on purpose or not, I think you guys' interpretations are completely over the top. You two constantly state that the comics back you up but those are the very things you two are skewing.

It was a comment based on how much of a mook Surfer can be. I do think Surfer would just plow through her if he wanted to. Especially if he was just upgraded not too long ago.

Is this supposed to be more impressive because he has a degree in an unrelated field?

Exactly what am I skewing? The fact that she summoned the power of millions of stars? That was stated outright in canon and she did the feat. What am I skewing? That she redirected Sienna Blaze? Guess what, its canon. Ororo can perceive the universe as patterns of energy and forces and bend it to her will? Its canon as well. Ororo overpowered the Trion, elemental gods who are the sum of an entire dimension including the summation of its past, present and future and healed that dimension. She's overpowered Magneto twice in battle. Canon. She has altered weather on a continental scale more than once. Canon. She has altered the ecosystem of an entire hemisphere. Canon. She has altered the ecosystem on a global scale. Canon. Any one of these things places her above Magneto by leaps and bounds. Obviously, she is not going to be displaying these kinds of powers often times since most of the x-villains are low levellers like the Reavers or or Pyro, etc. The more powerful characters, like Magneto, are poorly portrayed as someone who can take on the entire lineup. Therefore, you will never see STorm in those stories demonstrating high power levels since the 90s (in fact, she and Magneto never exchanged blows. If he is supposed to be so powerful, why would they not allow Ororo to fight him? Every other X-Man I can think of fought him in the 90s save Colossus who joined him. Storm is the only one I can think of off the bat that never battled him.) All of this hurts his credibility in this debate.

Originally posted by Rutog98
Exactly what am I skewing? The fact that she summoned the power of millions of stars? That was stated outright in canon and she did the feat. What am I skewing? That she redirected Sienna Blaze? Guess what, its canon. Ororo can perceive the universe as patterns of energy and forces and bend it to her will? Its canon as well. Ororo overpowered the Trion, elemental gods who are the sum of an entire dimension including the summation of its past, present and future and healed that dimension. She's overpowered Magneto twice in battle. Canon. She has altered weather on a continental scale more than once. Canon. She has altered the ecosystem of an entire hemisphere. Canon. She has altered the ecosystem on a global scale. Canon. Any one of these things places her above Magneto by leaps and bounds. Obviously, she is not going to be displaying these kinds of powers often times since most of the x-villains are low levellers like the Reavers or or Pyro, etc. The more powerful characters, like Magneto, are poorly portrayed as someone who can take on the entire lineup. Therefore, you will never see STorm in those stories demonstrating high power levels since the 90s (in fact, she and Magneto never exchanged blows. If he is supposed to be so powerful, why would they not allow Ororo to fight him? Every other X-Man I can think of fought him in the 90s save Colossus who joined him. Storm is the only one I can think of off the bat that never battled him.) All of this hurts his credibility in this debate.

Im sure logical fallacies are sure to follow Rutog πŸ’ƒ

Originally posted by 2damnloud
What did the learned people actually say about the winds? Did they give an estimation?

No. There was no estimation. Basically, they just said that she was very powerful and what she did was far beyond any real life hurricane or tornado. When I took geology in my undergrad, I had a german professor. I asked him about this as well and he could not believe that the character could generate winds that strong. He also said that it was well beyond any wind he's ever heard of. He called her "unbelievably powerful."

Originally posted by 2damnloud
You pretty much mock everything and quickly write it off, especially when I may come from an authoratative source.

I'm not mocking it. I'm a skeptic. Do you get it now? Do you understand? I understand it's fiction but if I see something ripe with logical flaws and crap that just doesn't make sense I have to question it. I can go for days just on something like the galactic core feat. That thing has on panel evidence contradicting the captions.

πŸ˜†@Physics not being related to the physical effects of winds on structures.

That's a really weak transition. Should I ask a physicist about the physical effects of a knife on my kidneys from a bar fight? Or should I see a specialist, aka, a doctor?

I don't disagree with the man's conclusion, it takes a lot of wind to support a building, but a meteorologist would make a far more credible source than a physicist because that kind of stuff is not a physicist's expertise.

It'd ridiculous to consider anyone with any degree an authority on any subject unrelated to their degree because of the very real possibility that they know very little about the subject. It is possible they will know quite a lot but that chance is completely independent of any degree.

Originally posted by Rutog98
Exactly what am I skewing?

Short answer: Yeah, pretty much. You see it one way and don't see any other possible interpretation. But I don't.

Originally posted by Rutog98
No. There was no estimation. Basically, they just said that she was very powerful and what she did was far beyond any real life hurricane or tornado. When I took geology in my undergrad, I had a german professor. I asked him about this as well and he could not believe that the character could generate winds that strong. He also said that it was well beyond any wind he's ever heard of. He called her "unbelievably powerful."

I'd say the winds were over 1,000 mph. They had to lift it, and support it as to keep it from crumbling.

She did it with relative ease.

Also, smaller building don't generally have large concrete pillar supports πŸ˜†

People grasping at starws trying to play it down.

You have to be very perceptive to see through the BS 😘

Originally posted by 2damnloud
Also, smaller building don't generally have large concrete pillar supports πŸ˜†

Larger buildings don't generally have a single row of pillars supporting them do they?

I'm not quite sure what that has to do with anything. But it is worth noting.

Originally posted by Rutog98
Exactly what am I skewing? The fact that she summoned the power of millions of stars? That was stated outright in canon and she did the feat. What am I skewing? That she redirected Sienna Blaze? Guess what, its canon. Ororo can perceive the universe as patterns of energy and forces and bend it to her will? Its canon as well. Ororo overpowered the Trion, elemental gods who are the sum of an entire dimension including the summation of its past, present and future and healed that dimension. She's overpowered Magneto twice in battle. Canon. She has altered weather on a continental scale more than once. Canon. She has altered the ecosystem of an entire hemisphere. Canon. She has altered the ecosystem on a global scale. Canon. Any one of these things places her above Magneto by leaps and bounds. Obviously, she is not going to be displaying these kinds of powers often times since most of the x-villains are low levellers like the Reavers or or Pyro, etc. The more powerful characters, like Magneto, are poorly portrayed as someone who can take on the entire lineup. Therefore, you will never see STorm in those stories demonstrating high power levels since the 90s (in fact, she and Magneto never exchanged blows. If he is supposed to be so powerful, why would they not allow Ororo to fight him? Every other X-Man I can think of fought him in the 90s save Colossus who joined him. Storm is the only one I can think of off the bat that never battled him.) All of this hurts his credibility in this debate.

She is still no PF. πŸ˜‰

Originally posted by Swanky-Tuna

That's a really weak transition. Should I ask a physicist about the physical effects of a knife on my kidneys from a bar fight? Or should I see a specialist, aka, a doctor?

You and these stupid analogies πŸ™„ It depends on what kinds of information about the physical effects you hope to garner. There's a reason Medical sciences encompass other sciences. πŸ˜• A medical doctor can only tell you so much about ONE effect.

Originally posted by Swanky-Tuna

I don't disagree with the man's conclusion, it takes a lot of wind to support a building, but a meteorologist would make a far more credible source than a physicist because that kind of stuff is not a physicist's expertise.

It'd ridiculous to consider anyone with any degree an authority on any subject unrelated to their degree because of the very real possibility that they know very little about the subject. It is possible they will know quite a lot but that chance is completely independent of any degree.

So a meteorologist is more authoritaive with regard to wind, an object's terminal velocity, aerodynamics etc. than a PHYSICIST?? πŸ˜•

OMG 😘

Again, you're trying too hard. You're falling apart πŸ™

And Meterology ALSO encompasses a wide range of other Sciences.

I wonder whyπŸ˜•

πŸ˜†

Originally posted by 2damnloud
You and these stupid analogies πŸ™„ It depends on what kinds of information about the physical effects you hope to garner. There's a reason Medical sciences encompass other sciences. πŸ˜• A medical doctor can only tell you so much about ONE effect.

My point was a physicist isn't the authority on any physical effect on another object.

So a meteorologist is more authoritaive with regard to wind, an object's terminal velocity, aerodynamics etc. than a PHYSICIST?? πŸ˜•

You were so close. The effect of wind on a building. Heck, maybe an architect would of been just as good. This is stuff they have to deal with all the time.

This is all extremely off topic.

Originally posted by 2damnloud
And Meterology ALSO encompasses a wide range of other Sciences.

I wonder whyπŸ˜•

πŸ˜†


I imagine to make them better and understanding the effects of weather. Exactly my point, thank you.

Originally posted by Rutog98
No. There was no estimation. Basically, they just said that she was very powerful and what she did was far beyond any real life hurricane or tornado. When I took geology in my undergrad, I had a german professor. I asked him about this as well and he could not believe that the character could generate winds that strong. He also said that it was well beyond any wind he's ever heard of. He called her "unbelievably powerful."

That's the funny thing about comics. They're full of contradictions. It's well beyond any wind speed that your geology teacher has ever heard of? Fair enough. But i thought Storm's power set (as quoted from the handbooks) was limited to weather patterns seen on Earth?

And i'm well aware that the handbooks aren't canon, i'm just pointing out an inconsistency in comics. Because if she can generate weather patterns that aren't possible on this planet, there is a contradiction there, and a fairly large one at that.

Another example i used in another thread. If Storm is completely aware of everything around her and can react far faster than Magneto (and sure, there are plenty of issues out there that show how powerful Storm is), then why the hell does she get hit in fights AT ALL? Because i am pretty sure i have read issues in the past where Storm has been tagged by people far below Magneto's powers. Let me correct that. I have definitely read issues where she has been tagged. Another example i pointed out in another thread that nobody answered. How the hell did BP sneak up on her in his latest issue? Why did she have to concentrate while flying away form Clor to generate that electric field in his head? Couldn't she have done it instantaneously by your reckoning?

Again - i'm not questioning how powerful Storm is. I'm merely showing that there are huge inconsistencies in how we can perceive one character from the next. I actually feel a mix of admiration and exasperation when i read these threads. I admire your persistence. I also acknowledge that there are plenty of people that Storm can beat with her hands tied behind her back, and that she is a very powerful mutant. But what frustrates me when i read these threads is that you only ever seem to acknowledge all the "highest level" stuff Storm has achieved. Have you ever stopped to think that it might be written for dramatic effect?

As most of you know, i'm a Cyclops fan, and there has been a fair amount of hyperbole written about him too. If i was to take your stance, i could say that he can fire with "the suddeness of thought (ie he thinks and he fires just as quickly, with no accounting for the mechanical timing in is visor) and his blts can "pulverise adamantium". Why? Because it was in the comics and therefore it must be canon.

Do i really believe that about him? Actually, no, i like to temper my idealised image of Scott with a more realistic approach. There have been many times in the past where i have read that Scott can't get off a blast in time, and also he has had trouble denting materials less strong than adamantium. So i take those previous quotes with apinch of salt.

How does this apply to Storm? Simple, she has good showing and bad showings. At her peak, she can access her powers in the blink of an eye (please correct me if there is a source that demonstrates faster access) and has the power of millions of suns. That's pretty damn powerful.

But i've also seen her get hit by the Hulk from a piece of debris, get nailed by Cyke's blasts, get sneaked up on by Wolverine....

So where is the consistency????

I think, after this long message, all i am trying to say is that i wish you guys would temper your love for Storm (which is great, she is hella powerful) with a little more realism. It's unlikely to change your opinions, but then again, you're also unlikely to change the many others here that say Magneto would beat Storm quite easily.

For the record, i give this to Magneto 10/10. But that's my opinion, you know?

I wish I had a decent picture of a crowd swaying their lighters to respond with.