Storm vs Magneto pt 2

Originally posted by Swanky-Tuna
I see. So she has no high feats, only low feats?

He's flying through the basement of the building. How is he not talking about that building?

If it does, I've only heard complaints from you and rudy for picking apart your "obvious" observations.

I'm... not sure what you're talking about here. I'm not basing anything on just a single word, rather the inflection of the sentence, or saying he's talking about another building. I don't know why you would try pinning that on me.

I'm pretty much done with the pointless, foolish banter, semantical arguments and logical fallacies. 😘

Originally posted by 2damnloud
I'm pretty much done with the pointless, foolish banter, semantical arguments and logical fallacies. 😘

So these questions are irrelevant since you've given up the fanatic Storm fan act?

Originally posted by Swanky-Tuna
If I understand your view on Storm correctly, you believe her to be as versatile, if not moreso, than Magneto with the energy manipulating capabilities of a mid-high level herald.

If so, I just don't see why she's never acted as such except in sporadic, one time feats. This would amount to countless idiocies on Storm's behalf. If not, please clarify.

Originally posted by Swanky-Tuna
Then how can you be so sure they will protect her from the hat?

Originally posted by Swanky-Tuna
You kept it up for a long time too. I'd probably be sick as well if I had to play out that joke for as long as you did.

So these questions are irrelevant since you've given up the fanatic Storm fan act?

I've already been over your dumb, logical fallacy-ridden "debating".

Do you remember:

"If storm can do A, why doesn't she do B?? If she doesn't do B, then she really can't do A at all, so your assertion she can do A is false"

It's a logical fallacy. It is dumb and weak debating, Swanky. 🙄

And the hat is not getting thorugh because I don't think he can fling it with the force of thousands of pounds of falling debris. Also, it being molten doesn't matter. He would have to destroy the molecular integirty of it, and then fling it at her, and it probably STILL wouldnt get through. Storm has put up a boundary layer in front of a door in club as to block SOUNDWAVES so she can have better conversation without loud music in the background. Her powers over the air are second to NONE. 😮‍💨

She would only need to deflect it for a short time anyway. Ororo would most likey come up with some offensive manuever such as vortex which he is susceptible to while she is safely in the pressure dome. 😎

Storm wins the majority through her Air attack which are POWERFUL.

Maybe if the writer wants to be adventurous. Storm could create an opposing Electromagnetic Field that would destroy his or they would cancel each other out. Or, she could use her second site and control over electrons to just distrupt the fields.

She has manipulated the Galactic core, empty space, solar winds etc. which are more powerful feats with the fundemental forces of the Universe than Magneto has displayed. It can be written this way. I would not have a problem at all. 😎

Here it is Rutog. I wish I would have had it for the Kitty thread.😱

Courtesy of HandofFate from another board.

Originally posted by 2damnloud
I've already been over your dumb, logical fallacy-ridden "debating".

Do you remember:

"If storm can do A, why doesn't she do B?? If she doesn't do B, then she really can't do A at all, so your assertion she can do A is false"

It's a logical fallacy. It is dumb and weak debating, Swanky. 🙄

And the hat is not getting thorugh because I don't think he can fling it with the force of thousands of pounds of falling debris.

Also, it being molten doesn't matter. He would have to destroy the molecular integirty of it, and then fling it at her, and it probably STILL wouldnt get through.

Storm has put up a boundary layer in front of a door in club as to block SOUNDWAVES so she can have better conversation without loud music in the background. Her powers over the air are second to NONE. 😮‍💨

Maybe if the writer wants to be adventurous. Storm could create an opposing Electromagnetic Field that would destroy his or they would cancel each other out. Or, she could use her second site and control over electrons to just distrupt the fields.

She has manipulated the Galactic core, empty space, solar winds etc. which are more powerful feats with the fundemental forces of the Universe than Magneto has displayed. It can be written this way. I would not have a problem at all. 😎

Originally posted by Swanky-Tuna
If by "over" you mean you called it dumb so you didn't have to answer.

I already told you WHY it was dumb.

Originally posted by Swanky-Tuna

There's nothing illogical about "If she has the power of a herald why doesn't she exhibit it consistently?"

Ok, her displatyng it consistently has NOTHING to do with her actually HAVING the power. What she does with it has NOTHING to do with her actually HAVING the power. It's called Denying the Antecendent driven by ad consequentiam

You're arguing logical fallacies. 😆

Originally posted by Swanky-Tuna

That's a little harsh. He was able to lift a Typhoon-class submarine. I think he can make it through.

And the correlation is? 😕

Originally posted by Swanky-Tuna

Oh no, I meant for her to do it. Because that air shield would of had to grind away at the mountain like a spherical saw blade.

All she would need to do is deflect it for a short while. There is no grinding away. Or she could electrically charge the obcjects being flung at her, destroying the magnetic fields by disrupting the alignment. Or she could create her very own EMF intermingled with the pressure dome. It would take care of everyhting. Kinda like the same way she used and electric wind tunnel to re-rdirect the full power of Sienna Blaze's Phoenix-like Blast. Sienna is >>>>>>>>>Magneto with regard to energy projection.

Originally posted by Swanky-Tuna

Neat but not really a task that requires much power.

It may, then again, it may not. It just shows her control over air. 😎

Originally posted by Swanky-Tuna

There is no writer.

You're looking at him 😎

Originally posted by Swanky-Tuna

Seriously... the galactic core is an on panel contradiction, she's never manipulated true empty space because non exists, and real life Earth's own weakening magnetic field repels solar wind all the time.

Blah, Deny deny. It happened. And there is energy in empty space. I think it's called "zero point energy".

😕 @ the solar wind reference

Storm's power and versatility are second to none. 😎

You can either Deal, or no deal 😆

I just hope they(I know Claremont wants to) stay consistent with the character. I understnad WHY they would write her down. I mean the power she has even NOW, if used consistently, would put her head and shoulders above the majority of villains and her peers.

She would look so out of place in a team dynamic fighting people like Magneto.😆

If Storm was written consistenly with all her credit, Magneto woud be nothing, a mere insect.🙄

Originally posted by 2damnloud
Here it is Rutog. I wish I would have had it for the Kitty thread.😱

Courtesy of HandofFate from another board.

Not exactly sure where you've determined that her attack in the last panel is an EMP. Just looks like a big surge of electricity, makes no argument to say that it's an EMP. I mean, if you're psychic and all, that's cool. But you really shouldn't wasting your powers here, when there are so many crimes going unsolved at this very moment. Go! Go! For the good of the city!

P.S.--Yay blind assumptions!

Originally posted by 2damnloud
I just hope they(I know Claremont wants to) stay consistent with the character. I understnad WHY they would write her down. I mean the power she has even NOW, if used consistently, would put her head and shoulders above the majority of villains and her peers.

She would look so out of place in a team dynamic fighting people like Magneto.😆

If Storm was written consistenly with all her credit, Magneto woud be nothing, a mere insect.🙄

Is that why Magneto is one of the very few enemies that is stated to be able to take and defeat nearly all the X-Men at once?

Lemme know when Storm creates a traversable wormhole. Or screws the planet over by switching the magnetic poles. Or control the microscopic traces of metal inside people's bodies.

I could really keep going, but I won't.

Originally posted by Metalmanx

Is that why Magneto is one of the very few enemies that is stated to be able to take and defeat nearly all the X-Men at once?

Lemme know when Storm creates a traversable wormhole. Or screws the planet over by switching the magnetic poles. Or control the microscopic traces of metal inside people's bodies.

I could really keep going, but I won't.

^ 😘

I'm talking about Storm written with consistensy of all her powers she's displayed.

All that shit is still<<<<<<<<<<<<<<what storm does/ did/ will do hopefully 😆

Originally posted by 2damnloud
Ok, her displatyng it consistently has NOTHING to do with her actually HAVING the power. What she does with it has NOTHING to do with her actually HAVING the power. It's called Denying the Antecendent driven by ad consequentiam

You're arguing logical fallacies. 😆

ya, totally uninterested in getting into points of fact with you

but this is wrong.

Denying the Antecedent is wrong because Swanky is the one making the "if-than" statement. He is saying that "IF storm has X powers, then she should use them consistently". You are making a single statement of fact, which is "Storm has X powers".

Second, it is not ad consequentiam. Ad consequentiam is an appeal to authority or to concequences. Saying that certain properties produce a certain result is not an appeal to the consequences. Thus, saying "Storm has never shown these powers therefore she does not have them" is saying nothing of the consequence.

An ad consequentiam is more like, A leads to good ends, therefore A is true. This does reveal a strange bias in your argument if you think this is true. for some reason you have equated disagreement with your point to people telling you that you or your character are bad.

The only logical fallacy you should be pumping is "Absence of evidence is not the evidence for absence" which is the weakest of the logical fallacies. To begin with, every fallacy is a heuristic, not a law. There are valid arguments from every single fallacy if you get right into it.

There is also the fact that logical fallacies arose from the scientific method, one that allows for continuous experimentation and investigation, and one that has very specific rules for evidence.

Because we cannot run such experiments there are vastly different rules for evidence on this board than in logical philosophy. The "absence of evidence" fallacy is in fact built into the way we judge feats, specifically for the fact that comics are not scientifically logical. Without the requirement of evidence for every single little claim being made on these boards, even the ones that seem like logical extensions of a character's power, you could literally say anything and there would be nothing to refute it, since comics have such low contiguity.

Really, I stopped debating with you threads ago for the simple reason that you do not accept the standard of evidence for these boards. And instead of adressing that issue, you just carry on with the same old scans. The reason you and rutog have become the joke of the month is this one alone. The day, THE DAY, capt it up started making logical arguments for wolverine, both him and wolverine's status on the board skyrocketed. Nobody respects Storm anymore because of the preposterous claims you are making for her.

Originally posted by inimalist
ya, totally uninterested in getting into points of fact with you

but this is wrong.

Denying the Antecedent is wrong because Swanky is the one making the "if-than" statement. He is saying that "IF storm has X powers, then she should use them consistently". You are making a single statement of fact, which is "Storm has X powers".

Second, it is not ad consequentiam. Ad consequentiam is an appeal to authority or to concequences. Saying that certain properties produce a certain result is not an appeal to the consequences. Thus, saying "Storm has never shown these powers therefore she does not have them" is saying nothing of the consequence.

An ad consequentiam is more like, A leads to good ends, therefore A is true. This does reveal a strange bias in your argument if you think this is true. for some reason you have equated disagreement with your point to people telling you that you or your character are bad.

The only logical fallacy you should be pumping is "Absence of evidence is not the evidence for absence" which is the weakest of the logical fallacies. To begin with, every fallacy is a heuristic, not a law. There are valid arguments from every single fallacy if you get right into it.

There is also the fact that logical fallacies arose from the scientific method, one that allows for continuous experimentation and investigation, and one that has very specific rules for evidence.

Because we cannot run such experiments there are vastly different rules for evidence on this board than in logical philosophy. The "absence of evidence" fallacy is in fact built into the way we judge feats, specifically for the fact that comics are not scientifically logical. Without the requirement of evidence for every single little claim being made on these boards, even the ones that seem like logical extensions of a character's power, you could literally say anything and there would be nothing to refute it, since comics have such low contiguity.

Really, I stopped debating with you threads ago for the simple reason that you do not accept the standard of evidence for these boards. And instead of adressing that issue, you just carry on with the same old scans. The reason you and rutog have become the joke of the month is this one alone. The day, [b]THE DAY, capt it up started making logical arguments for wolverine, both him and wolverine's status on the board skyrocketed. Nobody respects Storm anymore because of the preposterous claims you are making for her. [/B]

Blah 🙄 You twist things too much with these essay's. What I said correct.

You even used the logical fallacies as well in these debates. 😘

Originally posted by 2damnloud
Blah 🙄 You twist things too much with these essay's. What I said correct.

You even used the logical fallacies as well in these debates. 😘

logical fallacies are very hard to avoid, especially when dealing with a subject as inconsistant as comic book character appearances.

Hence why they are heuristics and not laws

but yes, twisting things is what I do. Language like clay

It should be denying the antecedent Modus Pollens

Form:

If p then q.
Not-p.
Therefore, not-q.

Similar Validating Forms:

Modus Ponens

If p then q.
p.
Therefore, q.

Modus Tollens

If p then q.
Not-q.
Therefore, not-p.

Denying the Antecedant validating form:Modus Tollens

If Storm can manupulated universal energies, then she should be doing xyz.

If storm is not doing xyz, then your original claim that she manipulates universal energy is false.

The whole end result of the fallacy is for Storm not to be powerful, or as powerful as I say that she is.

😖mart:

Driven by, in my mind, ad consequentiam

If P, then Q will occur.
Q is desirable/undesirable.
Therefore, P is true/false.

If Storm is that powerful, then she is really up there.
Her being up there is not good because she doesn't need to be, bad for character, not enough evidence, misinterpretation of evidence *insert a whole myriad of personal reasons.*
Therefore, storm is not as Powerful as asserted

Google is so damn cool😖mart:

All I do is state what I see on panel. People jump to conlusions and create a consequence for her feats,such as her being god-like, herald-level, abstract etc. If she is not 'god-like' etc. consistently, or if she get's "tagged", or snuck up on, then her origina feats are totally invaid.

People even argue with so-called evidence(scans, canon) on this board by playing semantics such as the word "an" changing the context of Johnny destroying the supports of the/an entire bulding.

It's suspension of common sense, and for what??😆

Originally posted by 2damnloud
All I do is state what I see on panel. People jump to conlusions and create a consequence for her feats,such as her being god-like, herald-level, abstract etc. If she is not 'god-like' etc. consistently, or if she get's "tagged", or snuck up on, then her origina feats are totally invaid.

People even argue with so-called evidence(scans, canon) on this board by playing semantics such as the word "an" changing the context of Johnny destroying the supports of the/an entire bulding.

It's suspension of common sense, and for what??😆

So are you saying we are wrong to state that she isn't as powerful as you say because we are questioning what is said on panel in the comics?

Originally posted by yestinchong
So are you saying we are wrong to state that she isn't as powerful as you say because we are questioning what is said on panel in the comics?

Yes and no.

People question things so plainly stated or outright deny it.

Suspension of common sense

Originally posted by Metalmanx

Lemme know when Storm creates a traversable wormhole. Or screws the planet over by switching the magnetic poles. Or control the microscopic traces of metal inside people's bodies.

I could really keep going, but I won't.

Please don't keep going as these things are silly. He created a wormhole. That's nice, but its a joke compared as Storm summoning the full power of a galactic core or her overpowering the Trion or sealing a reality tear between two dimensions. In regards to your magnetic poles thing, he needed a machine to boost his powers for that feat. It did not come from the merits of his own power base. Therefore, its nothing. That said, Storm altered the ecosystem over the entire globe. That's more impressive even than what MAgneto did WITH that machine boosting his powers. Heck, her altering the ecosystem as she did over a hemisphere or continent beats that as well as far as damage potential.

As far as iron in the blood goes, Storm can hit other ways that are much harder and less avoidable. A force-field can stop MAgneto from that and the stunts can also be rendered as nothing against a rechanneler (which Storm is for these kinds of energies as she channels them through her body all the time). STorm can control the environment THROUGH force-fields and take out rechannelers by robbing them of air they need, freezing them, etc.

Originally posted by ExodusCloak
Those particular pillars? He never said that. The pillars he knocked down provide the foundation support for the entire building. They provide foundation support. Just like the rest of the foundation which also provides foundation support for the entire building.

You're extremely gifted when it comes to pointing out your own particular flaws/hypocrisies.

EC, you have really fallen low to resort to this kind of distortion to try and rob the character of her power. Torch knocked out the support for the entire building. In other words, Storm's winds were the only thing keeping that building up. Hence the, "Oh my God" reaction from Torch. He could not believe the power she was displaying. Then Storm with, "Behold the power of the wind, Johnny Storm, it has force to level mountains and to support one single building."

The way you and Tuna go about trying to pervert the spirit of the canon truly has no boundaries.

Originally posted by 2damnloud
All I do is state what I see on panel. People jump to conlusions and create a consequence for her feats,such as her being god-like, herald-level, abstract etc. If she is not 'god-like' etc. consistently, or if she get's "tagged", or snuck up on, then her origina feats are totally invaid.

People even argue with so-called evidence(scans, canon) on this board by playing semantics such as the word "an" changing the context of Johnny destroying the supports of the/an entire bulding.

It's suspension of common sense, and for what??😆

Speaking of playing with semantics, here is my favorite:

"Storm only summoned the full power of the core, she did not summon the totality of its power." LOL!

That said, these people want to shout that Magneto can change the magnetic poles on the merits of his own power when all canon dictates that he must have a machine or a drug to enhance his powers to come anywhere near this feat. They want to scream that he can create wormholes, right? Fine, he can do that, but when have we seen it on panel? For all I know, he probably needed a machine for that too or it may have taken him hours to create one. In other words, while he's trying to cobble up a machine to do it or he fights or probably straining like he had to do to pull atoms together to make that comb for Wasp to create that wormhole in a fight(I wonder if he soiled himself pulling that stunt? He was certainly sweating and all of that. Wasp's facial expression may be come from the smell he generated from soiled underwear...I'm hoping he wears at least that...), Storm clocks him with winds like she did against Sienna Blaze and tears him to ribbons.