Jedi Exile vs Ulic Qel Droma

When exactly did he throw her anywhere? Oh right, the so called force push, which was really a drain.

Actually, I've proven, along with others that it is a drain. Not to mention Kreia even mentions it as a technique for which there is no defense, right when it happens, and after it happens she can't call her lightsaber back to her. That's a drain big boy.

Yeah, the Force Drain that no one says was a drain and doesn't look like a drain.

*looks at scene*

-Doesn't look like a Force Drain.
-Traya doesn't say it was a Force Drain.
-Her lightsaber moved.

Either provide a quote saying it was a drain or drop it.

Yay, he lifted the Ravager and force drained Kreia, and failed.

YOU have the nerve to call ME a fanboy?

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Nihilus moved A ship

Originally posted by Allankies
And he lifted a fleet, not just a ship.

Originally posted by Me
Fleet, actually.

I do not constantly skew facts and ignore facts to suit my argument better. Especially not after I’ve been called on it multiple times.So...who is the fanboy here?

And your OPINION it was a drain has no basis at all. It neither looks like a drain, has the result of a drain and no dialogue calls it a drain.

Not to mention there's no reason to believe he's better than an average lightsaber duelist. No reason at all.

No one cares.

Uh yea, Kun, Sylvar, and any force sensitive who has the ability to use TK. TK is basic.

Okay then.

Ulic ever fought someone using telekinetic lightsaber combat with 3 sabers?

And as for it being basic...then why does absolutely no one really do it?

Originally posted by xxXAcStylesXxx
If your comparison charts for the Exile weren't so horribly skewed you might be right, again, she was FAR from average, your using dead points in your "argument"

She was skilled enough for the Mandalorians to "fear" her, moreover Kreia says on MULTIPLE occasions that it is conflict and strife that strengths the connection to the force.

Ulic was skilled enough to not only defeat the most powerful Mandalorian there was at his point in time but also have him go down on his knees and serve his new "master" without question. Wow. The Mandalorians "feared" the Exile ? They didn't drop down in front of her to serve her. Hell...they didn't even do that when Revan killed Mandalore.

"War has rarely been able to blind a Jedi to the force, through conflict, strife and overcoming challenges in war the connection if strengthen."
- To the Exile after leaving Peragus

"Conflict streghtns Jedi to the force."
-To Atton on Telos.

So we can deduce logically that through the three year wars that as I've previously noted were so ferocious to the point of causing Jedi to suffer mental break downs because of the horror they saw, that her connection to the force was streghted a great deal, hence the increase in her bonding ability.

And the same would apply to Ulic who started of with more talent / potential for all we know. So what ?

The Exiles "stats" on the force should be:
-complete Jedi training
-bonding ability
-an very large increase in raw force power due to hundreds of deaths she's caused.
-force defenses strong enough that it takes three Jedi Masters using the Wall of Light attack for it to be effective on her (Note they don't even attempt it if one dies)
-More knowledge (Gained from Kreia who as stated: Had the entire Jedi archives to comb through, which contained many Sith and Jedi holocrons and her knowledge from Malachor, which she imparted on the Exile)

Lmfao. Bonding ability doesn't matter. Increase of force power also applies on Ulic. Force defences ? Ulic simply ran through a blast of Dark Side energy that floored a group of Jedi instantly, coming from a person who kept a Jedi Master as prisoner using Dark Side energies only. And the Jedi Masters don't use the Wall of Light attack against a Dark Side Exile...unfortunately for you this isn't canon.

And more knowledge ? Again: Lmao. Arca who trained Ulic had a freaking planet filled with Jedi and Sith Lore dating back 20,000 years and imparted that on Ulic for years where Kreia at best did spent some weeks / months with the Exile. Oh...what wisdom. Not even talking about the fact that she rarely even "teaches" the Exile in the ways of the force directly aside from the "force breath" and the "beast trick" abilities.

[wuozr]
Advantage: The Exile, other then it takes three notedly powerful masters to subdue her in the force, one of whom was said by Bastila to be one of the most powerful in the galaxy (Vrook), she has more knowledge as imparted by Kreia (this can be seen as it is her (the Exile) very knowledge and teachings that resurrect the Jedi order and allow it to survive for 4000 more years. Her raw power takes a leap from the war and from the death she has caused throughout the galaxy. The only real advantage Ulic has in this area is his Sith Amulet, and that too is no big deal look at the end of the post for proof, and it was no casual blast, Ulic was in a full fit of rage.
[/quote]

Oh yeah. Canonically light side Exile obviously trumps Dark Side Ulic Quel-Droma in the ways of the force. With a complete lack of offensive force abilities she will tool Ulic who was "rippling with Dark Side energy" exceeding everything that Aleema "I kill people for fun" Keto could have gained through her Sith magic.

Again, horribly skewed, we can logically deduce that her lightsaber skill had increased from what Vrook and Vandar saw of her as a padawan, as her skill caused Mandalorians to fear her, moreover, even after that with her large leap in power from the death she caused. Have we forgotten that lightsaber skill is directly tied into how strong you are in the force.

Oh yes, baby. Lightsaber skill is directly linked to force ability. Hence Obi-Wan Kenobi is able to outduel Anakin Skywalker. And again that Mandalorians who's more powerful brothers did bow down to Ulic Quel-Droma ?

Other then that its been noted that the Exile was in very good physical shape by both Mira and the HK 50 droid on Peragus.

"There's no denying you take care of your body..."
-Mira

Spoken to a male Exile only - not canon.

"You are a ronto among humans..."
-HK-50 on Peragus.

Ah yes.
"Stay out of this, Tenel Ka. You can't possibly know anything about it. You have the emotional depth of a ronto."

That surely was some sort of compliment that definetly is a testament for the Exile's strength. Or, given the rather sarcastic nature of the HK droids, this might have been some nice taunting.

Finally her skill was enough to hold off and subdue Sion who as he himself stated was drawing dark side power from Malachor.

Oh. She held off a Sith Lord with unknown lightsaber skill or force abilty. Again I'm f*cking impressed by that. Of course it doesn't hold a candle to trashing some huge dude in Sith Armor possessed by the spirit of an Ancient Sith and the master of that dude who kicked Jedi around for fun with apparent ease using his Sith magic. Stalemating the "master duellist" who wiped Freedom Nadd from the galaxy with a wave of his hand is also not impressive.

So again the correct stats in this would be

-Skilled with a lightsaber
-above average physical condition
-Three years of constant war with the Mandalorians
-Her ability to mimic perfectly the combat stances and styles displayed to her.

Advantage: To close, as the Exile was never stated to be as prodigious as Ulic was with a blade, she however likely has more raw power in the force then him, which can become a major factor in lightsaber fights (Bane v Kas'im, Anakin v Dooku pt2) then she has the ability as said to mimic whatever Ulic displays, rendering his status as a masterswords man useless. Ulic does however have physical power over her for the sheer fact of his gender.

Yeah. Of COURSE. Being capable of reproducing some movements turns you into the freaking uber duellist instantly. I did read a book about Kung Fu and can reproduce the stances - I will render the fighting prowess of Bruce Lee and Chuck Norris useless because of that ! And raw force power is of course the deciding factor in duels. I mean, aside of the fact that you don't have any proof how much "raw power" the Exile had, listing Dooku VS Anakin in RotS is great: Especially since Anakin visibly overcame Dooku with superior physical strength and not "raw force power".

No not quite, as stated the Exile raw force power probably exceeds that of Ulic, and as the comic has shown Ulic's control over the Sith Amulet is nowhere near Kuns level, and when he does use it against Nomi the most it does is knock her down because she was :

A. Off Guard

Lmao. We're talking about Ulic in his prime which is six months after we see him using the amulet (which he received minutes before) for the first time. One should suggest that if Kun is capable to master the power of that amulet in...erm...minutes Ulic should be capable of doing the same in half a year.

And of course Nomi was "off guard". Let's ignore how she was in depth Battle Meditation (so powered with most valueable defence as she just countered Aleema's attack before) and how she's warned when Ulic graps his amulet. Really "off guard" that is.

In addition the most the Amulet does to her is cause her to rub her head and she's standing in the very next panel.

See here:

http://www.swtimeline.ru/?comics=7&page=145

So sorry, Ulics amulet won't or in better words can't save him here.

Lmao. It's getting more funny with every line. Unless the Exile has multiple people jumping in to take the amulet from Ulic she would still be on the ground without defence if Ulic would use the amulet against her. And estimating Ulic did most likely gained more control about the amulet in the six months after that incident we can conclude that he can use it with greater efficiency now.

Now if this came down to a lightsaber duel, while as I admitted Ulic probably does have the edge in sheer skill, the Exile likely is stronger in the force and can mimic whatever Ulic does, due to her extreme precognitive abilities.

See above.

I stated in the beginning in this topic I don't see how Ulic can win this and it remains the same, his amulet blast is rather weak,

For this fight we should estimate that he mastered the use of the amulet at least to the extend Kun did. If it's enough to wipe Nadd from the Galaxy "weak" isn't a fitting definition.

Moreover it only took two Jedi using the force to subdue Ulic while he was in a fit of rage both of them being rather weak, where as it took three Jedi Masters for even the Wall of Light to take affect on the Exile. The Exile has seemingly every advantage save for sheer skill and physical prowess.

Urm. What ?
You noticed how they tried to just pin down Ulic with both physical power and force power. So nice try comparing apples to oranges. And it took a 600 year old Jedi Master and Nomi "the prodigy" Sunrider to affect Ulic with a wall of light attack. But of course this isn't compareable to three Jedi Masters trying this...hmm...

Oh and according to Wooki, Kun and the rest never used it for one blade. Let alone using it in such precision as to hold 3 lightsabers simultaneously.

Originally posted by Nikkolas
Yeah, the Force Drain that no one says was a drain and doesn't look like a drain.

*looks at scene*

-Doesn't look like a Force Drain.
-Traya doesn't say it was a Force Drain.
-Her lightsaber moved.

Either provide a quote saying it was a drain or drop it.

And as for it being basic...then why does absolutely no one really do it?

Good god you moron, do you even know what TK is?

Originally posted by Nikkolas
Nihilus
-stuns him and slices off his head.
-drains him
-throws him around with TK.

He has -1,000,000 chances of defeating Nihilus.

Oh I love that craptastic arguments. Let me attempt to post something compareably ridiculous. "Ulic blows him into outer space with a blast of his Sith Amulet". Yes. I guess that fits.

She drains him. Dead Ulic...again.

Yes. Somebody who can jump through the attack of a rather powerful Sith Magician to cut him down will be stopped by some draining attempt. Kreia, for all we know, needed minutes to prepare that. Ulic might actually kick her sorry ass across the place before she's even capable of raising her hand.

Ulic doesn't come off as exactly that smart or manipulative and so the odds are he'd have no chance of killing Sion thanks to Sion's willful invincibility.

Which does totally matter as he can completely own Sion with force powers or lightsaber skill. I guess that would end like Arthurs confrontation with the black knight in "Monthy Python and the Holy Grail". Something like "Hey. Your arms are off" "Just a scratch"

Ulic loses again...this ain't his day.

Because the Exile's very nature limits the efficiency of her opponents in the game ? Because everything in the game is actually centered around that abilty ? Really...

Oh I love that craptastic arguments. Let me attempt to post something compareably ridiculous. "Ulic blows him into outer space with a blast of his Sith Amulet". Yes. I guess that fits.

A very ungraceful way to admit defeat.

I'm sorry if you have no real counter to the argument but you can at least accept you lose.

Everything I said about Nihius, he has done.

Yes. Somebody who can jump through the attack of a rather powerful Sith Magician to cut him down will be stopped by some draining attempt

Considering it dropped 3 Jedi Masters and is...ya know...INSTANT...I don't think it matters what Ulic can do. Unless he's The Flash.

Kreia, for all we know, needed minutes to prepare that.

So...you're assuming with no proof?

Which does totally matter as he can completely own Sion with force powers or lightsaber skill. I guess that would end like Arthurs confrontation with the black knight in "Monthy Python and the Holy Grail". Something like "Hey. Your arms are off" "Just a scratch"

Except Sion would just heal...and keep on healing....

I don't need a quote you retarded robot. When that happens Kreia says "I was cast down, stripped of my power, there are techniques in the force for which there is no defense". The funny thing is it's already been proven, and you're the only idiot on this forum calling it a force push.

She was cast down... She was their master. She was stripped of her power. She no longer led them. She also wasn't drained because she made the lightsaber move.

Stop using names like a 3rd-grader and learn to debate.

I'll ask again...since it doesn't look like a drain, it doesn't act like a drain and NOTHING says it was...why is it a drain?

You are the fanboy here. Btw, Nihilus lifted a ship, where is this mystical fleet?

It was stated to be a fleet.

"He tore [The Ravager] from the mass shadows of Malachor, along with his fleet... that is a measure of his power."

Says the mindless robot that needs things told to him or spelled out because he's too much of a dolt to use common sense. Guess what, common sense and logical deduction, not to mention the scene proves it was a force drain, try again.

Okay...I've endured this long enough.

****. YOU.

Okay?

I'm tired of you. I'm tired of being insulted. I'm tired of your immaturity.

I ask for something. You fail to provide it. Repeatedly. The scene, which I HAVE WATCHED, shows Nihilus pushing her into a wall. THAT'S IT. The animation for the Force Drain IS NOT PRESENT AT ALL. So, I ask you for the quote stating it was a drain. Your response is to insult me more.

I don't want to deal with you any longer. This is gong nowhere and it will go nowhere because all you have is assumtpions and anyone who disagrees with them is a retard.

So, goodbye.

Ulic was skilled enough to not only defeat the most powerful Mandalorian there was at his point in time but also have him go down on his knees and serve his new "master" without question. Wow. The Mandalorians "feared" the Exile ? They didn't drop down in front of her to serve her. Hell...they didn't even do that when Revan killed Mandalore.

Nice how you like to omit facts, part of the damn deal of the damn duel was for if Ulic won then Mandalore would bow to him and serve him. Revan on the other hand didn't wasn't the Mandalorians to bow to him. That thus renders your little point moot.

And Ulic's victory is nothing to go nuts over as it was expressly said that Mandalore may have more skill in battle then Ulic and he sent Ulic flying with one hit, and when Ulic did the same attack back Mandalore and the unfortunate luck of being at the edge of a cliff.

And the same would apply to Ulic who started of with more talent / potential for all we know. So what ?

And as I've said in the past the Great Sith Wars in an one on one battle comparison were NOTHING compared to the Mandalorian Wars, and really, I'm not doubting that Ulic was a prodigy as its implied but the Exile was also far from unskilled in her career as a Jedi, other then the fact that she was feared by the Mandalorians she was viewed as a champion amongst the order and a hero by Jedi Master Atris herself.

Whens the last time you've seen an average Jedi Knight viewed as a champion from Jedi Masters?

And the Jedi Masters don't use the Wall of Light attack against a Dark Side Exile...unfortunately for you this isn't canon.

Someone missed the point. You can still attain the canon lightside ending by killing one of the Jedi Masters, hence why I said they don't even attempt it on the Exile if she's a darksider or if they are missing one in their ranks. Logically it can be deduced that they CAN'T perform it to the Exile as she is to powerful without all three in their ranks.

And more knowledge ? Again: Lmao. Arca who trained Ulic had a freaking planet filled with Jedi and Sith Lore dating back 20,000 years and imparted that on Ulic for years

Wait, since when did Arkania turn into Ossus? Ulic was trained at Arca's Jedi Paraxeum on Arkania, moreover theres no proof they even made trips to Ossus or Ulic learned anything significant as Arca had two other padawans to teach his brother and Tott. Doubled to the fact that we rarely see Arca ever teach anything during TOTJ and he sends three green Jedi out to stabilize a civil war. Oh what wisdom.

Ulic according to the Tales of the Jedi companion book did not begin his training at birth but was held back for a number of years. Now you see unlike the Exile who was stated to be trained from a very young age we don't even know how long Ulic was on Arkania.

With a complete lack of offensive force abilities

So wait you need, to have "1337" Sith Magic to win duels with the force now and to even be powerful? Tell that to Yoda who's one main offensive force move was the force push. Or to Anakin Skywalker. Every Jedi has the skills to use basic telekinetic attacks, the Exile is no different.

she will tool Ulic who was "rippling with Dark Side energy"

Um no. Again you seem to like to omit facts to attempt to help your "argument". It was KUN and ULIC who were rippling with Dark Side energy.

exceeding everything that Aleema "I kill people for fun" Keto could have gained through her Sith magic.

Which amounted to what now? The few scraps of paper Naad left behind that Kun noted were incomplete that was owned by Nomi with just a few weeks of practice in how to beat it, the sith magic that was shrugged off by Exar? That Sith magic. Aleema "I kill people for fun" Keto was a joke.

Oh yes, baby. Lightsaber skill is directly linked to force ability. Hence Obi-Wan Kenobi is able to outduel Anakin Skywalker.

I'm glad you brought that up"

"Blade-to-blade, they were identical. After thousands of hours in lightsaber sparring, they knew each other better than brothers, more intimately than lovers; they were complementary halves of a single warrior." -ROTS novel.

And other then Obi Wans plan was to give ground, and not letting Anakin strike with the full furry of his blows, and as he stated

"Anything to stop him, anything too slow him down."

And really do you have eyes? Anakin was dominating the duel in melee attacks and when they were grappling it continued as he exerted his "impossible strength" down on him aiding it with his "dark power" which inturn lead to:

"Obi Wan felt the bones of his forearms bending, beginning to feather toward the greenstick fractures that would become the final breaks."

Anakin was kicking the shit out of Obi Wan, due to his superior skills, superior physical power and superior connection to the force.

Oh yes baby, you do look like an ass clown now.

And again that Mandalorians who's more powerful brothers did bow down to Ulic Quel-Droma ?

Any proof they're stronger under Indomitable rather then Ultimate?None, yeah I thought so. And stop nutting your pants over this feat, it wasn't that as Ulic was not only being beaten by Mandalore in the comic, he was sent flying through the air and only "won" because he punched Mandalore and he fell of a cliff. Lame.

That surely was some sort of compliment that definetly is a testament for the Exile's strength. Or, given the rather sarcastic nature of the HK droids, this might have been some nice taunting.

Uh no, the Hk50 droid makes it clear he's speaking in metaphor to the Exiles strength, he even says it.

Oh. She held off a Sith Lord with unknown lightsaber skill or force abilty. Again I'm f*cking impressed by that.

It was enough to take on Jedi Masters, it was enough skill to enable him to cause Traya to quake in fear and lose her focus. And other then the sheer amount of will it takes to keep his body together which was said to have thousands of skeletal fractions and breaks, none the less he was being amplified by the dark power of Malachor, he was pretty damn powerful.

Of course it doesn't hold a candle to trashing some huge dude in Sith Armor possessed by the spirit of an Ancient Sith and the master of that dude who kicked Jedi around for fun with apparent ease using his Sith magic.

All he did was run up and slash, sure he resisted the dark side energies but thats about the only thing impressive in that whole scene as without the armour Warb was nothing.

Stalemating the "master duellist" who wiped Freedom Nadd from the galaxy with a wave of his hand is also not impressive.

He used the amulet against Naad:

http://www.swtimeline.ru/?comics=7&page=104

First off what the f*ck is a master swordsman? What the hell does that even mean? I can name you other "master swordsman" Plo Koon, Tinn, Kit Fisto, Sora Bluq, Darllig, Sora Keto (somewhat) Qui Gon Jinn, Depa, Anoon ect ect ect. The fact remains that Ulic has done nothing dueling wise outside of OHKOing Warb that makes him above and beyond all the others I've listed, so for you to even be toting his status as "masterswordsman" as the be all end all of this debate is quite silly.

The same goes for Exar Kun at that point in time, who's sole feat of lightsaber prowess rest in breaking his masters stick then getting planted on his ass. Which as we further see is far from a big deal as Vodo you know sucks and Padawans all across the galaxy about 6 months later were beating their masters asses.

Back to my original point, a master swordsman equates to what exactly? In other words I want you to quantify it.

Yeah. Of COURSE. Being capable of reproducing some movements turns you into the freaking uber duellist instantly.

In the case of the Exile depending on her opponents level of skill: It does, as she can mimic anything displayed to her perfectly, and turn it back on the user, again Ulics status as "master swordsman" is rendered useless.

I did read a book about Kung Fu and can reproduce the stances - I will render the fighting prowess of Bruce Lee and Chuck Norris useless because of that !

Horrid analogy.

1. Your not force sensitive.

2. You don't have very advanced precognitive abilities that allow you to do this in the first place

3. Other then your choice of martial artists is ridicules, neither of them do "Kung Fu"

4. To further show how bad your analogy is Bruce Lee practiced his own made up shit called Jeet Kun Do which is a "style with no style" there is no form, there are no stances.

And raw force power is of course the deciding factor in duels. I mean, aside of the fact that you don't have any proof how much "raw power" the Exile had

It was enough to resist be powerful enough that it took 3 Jedi Masters to perform the Wall of light on her.

listing Dooku VS Anakin in RotS is great: Especially since Anakin visibly overcame Dooku with superior physical strength and not "raw force power".

"And even now, he was holding himself back; even now, as he landed at Dooku's flank and rained blows upon the Sith Lord's defenses, even as he drove Dooku backward step after step, Dooku could feel how Skywalker kept his fury banked behind walls of will : walls that were hardened by some uncontrollable dread." (Revenge of the Sith, Ch. 3, Way of the Sith)

Its clearly speaking of his rage which translates in the star wars universe as Dark Side power which when he finally fully unleashed the duel ends abruptly with this:

"His firewalls have opened so that the terror and rage are out there, in the fought instead of in his head and Anakins mind is as clear as a crystal bell...there is only one thing he must do...decide...so he does...he decides to win."

Right after that the duel ends.

Then you ignored my other point of Bane vs Kas'im.

"The outcome was inevitable. bane was simply too strong in the force ." PoD pg 242

What was that now?

Lmao. We're talking about Ulic in his prime which is six months after we see him using the amulet (which he received minutes before) for the first time.

Guess dipshit forgot who made this topic: me, that means I pick when the characters are set ,not you . And when is it said that the passage of time from the union of Ulic and Kun and the battle of Corscant. I was under the impression it was a few weeks, not months.

One should suggest that if Kun is capable to master the power of that amulet in...erm...minutes Ulic should be capable of doing the same in half a year.

Or how about Kun was shooting DBZ sized blasts on his first try

http://www.swtimeline.ru/?comics=7&page=102

where as Ulic on his first try managed the stunning task of knocking down an defenseless Jedi. And having her get right back up two whole seconds later.

http://www.swtimeline.ru/?comics=7&page=144

They are not even comparable.

And of course Nomi was "off guard". Let's ignore how she was in depth Battle Meditation (so powered with most valueable defence as she just countered Aleema's attack before) and how she's warned when Ulic graps his amulet. Really "off guard" that is.

Other then she was specifically countering Aleema's Sith magic as the narrator made a point of saying:

"Nomi had prepared for this moment."

Where as when she's talking to Ulic in BM which Bastila has said leaves her defenseless and weakened to the point that average thugs can take her on in a fight.

And Cay warns her in the same shot as him shooting her.

Come on son, keep up.

Lmao. It's getting more funny with every line. Unless the Exile has multiple people jumping in to take the amulet from Ulic she would still be on the ground without defence if Ulic would use the amulet against her.

As the best Ulic can do with it is to knock down a defenseless weakened Jedi who recovers a second latter, I'd say he wouldn't need the help of such impressive and strong force users like Cay Qel Droma .

And estimating Ulic did most likely gained more control about the amulet in the six months after that incident we can conclude that he can use it with greater efficiency now.

Um the f*ck we can't. We never see Ulic use it again outside of the incident in discussion, when he does have a perfect opportunity to use it and display it to the level that Kun does (ie: in his first part of the duel with Mandalore, and when he's out numbered by the Jedi above Coruscant) he doesn't, so we can logically conclude that he doesn't get any batter with it what so ever because after his duel with Kun we see NO dramatic increase in Ulics own personal power.

And this logic of passage of time = increased skill is in direct contradiction to your "Exile is average even after a decade plus" pick a damn argument.

See above

The above is wrong.

For this fight we should estimate that he mastered the use of the amulet at least to the extend Kun did.

No, I'm not giving him any powers he doesn't display in the source material. Simple as that.

If it's enough to wipe Nadd from the Galaxy "weak" isn't a fitting definition.

No, Ulics version when he was so damn angry he was sweating profusely was "rather weak."

You noticed how they tried to just pin down Ulic with both physical power and force power. So nice try comparing apples to oranges.

So wait let me get this straight...Cay Qel Droma and f*cking Qrrrl Toq have enough force power to hold down Uliq Qel Droma? LOL. Not only that Toq managed to overpower Ulic with ONE HAND:

http://www.swtimeline.ru/?comics=7&page=144

If he's as powerful as your trying to make him out to be he should have blasted them BOTH away with his rage alone, moreover he should have annihilated Nomi with one blast given the state of rage he was in.

And yet, it takes the collective force power of three Jedi Masters one being one of the most powerful in the galaxy, to even consider using the Wall of Light on the Exile. Puh-les Ulic in terms of force ability does NOT compare.

And it took a 600 year old Jedi Master and Nomi "the prodigy" Sunrider to affect Ulic with a wall of light attack. But of course this isn't compareable to three Jedi Masters trying this...hmm...

What are you talking about, it took an pissed of Nomi Sunrider ALONE to affect Ulic, thats it.

Give it up Nihilus fanboy.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Right, stalemating the best swordsman in the galaxy, worthless.

It wasn't a genuine stalemate, Ragnos interrupted their fight. As far as Kun being the best swordsman, he beat mostly average guys, so I wouldn't put too much weight on his swordmanship.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy

Really, I guess waiving 3 of them, fighting with 1 at a time, and talking to the exile, hell throughout the game and the fight, dead giveaway.

Great argument.

What game were you playing? They talked twice in the battle; before she unleashed the three sabers, and after the Exile defeated her. Leave your opinions out of this, address the facts.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy

Actually, your argument was utterly destroyed by myself and Nai, but as I've stated on numerous occasions, piss poor debaters have a way with denial.

You didn't have an argument to start with. Unlike Styles I'm unwilling to entertain your logical fallacies.

Moving on: Ulic can't beat Nihilus. Ulic wouldn't be a favourite against Traya. And Ulic doesn't have Kreia's love, for Sion to reveal his vulnerability. Maybe you should revisit the source material.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy

Yet another baseless opinion.

How? Who did Ulic beat that was as powerful as Kreia and Nihilus? Who did he beat that was as invulnerable as Sion? Baseless? It's sensible reasoning.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy

The exile had a lot more help fighting against people, while Ulic's battles showed his prowess and saber mastery, which he would use to annihilate the Exile.

She didn't have help beating Traya or Atris nor Sion. She didn't have help destroying the Sith forces on Trayus core. And none of Ulic's victories show him to be better than the Exile at dueling. In case you mention stale mating Kun again, I'd like to point out that this feat doesn't show the extent of Ulic's skills in battle.

As you can see below.

http://www.swtimeline.ru/?comics=7&page=149

They were both skillful, but how do you quantify that to mean that Ulic is better than the Exile? If anything the Exile's exploits on Malachor 5 are a lot more impressive i.e wiping out Trayus academy and then proceeding to fight an immortal in Sion and Traya.

Above.

Originally posted by Allankles
It wasn't a genuine stalemate, Ragnos interrupted their fight. As far as Kun being the best swordsman, he beat mostly average guys, so I wouldn't put too much weight on his swordmanship.

What game were you playing? They talked twice in the battle; before she unleashed the three sabers, and after the Exile defeated her. Leave your opinions out of this, address the facts.

You didn't have an argument to start with. Unlike Styles I'm unwilling to entertain your logical fallacies.

Moving on: Ulic can't beat Nihilus. Ulic wouldn't be a favourite against Traya. And Ulic doesn't have Kreia's love, for Sion to reveal his vulnerability. Maybe you should revisit the source material.

How? Who did Ulic beat that was as powerful as Kreia and Nihilus? Who did he beat that was as invulnerable as Sion? Baseless? It's sensible reasoning.

She didn't have help beating Traya or Atris nor Sion. She didn't have help destroying the Sith forces on Trayus core. And none of Ulic's victories show him to be better than the Exile at dueling. In case you mention stale mating Kun again, I'd like to point out that this feat doesn't show the extent of Ulic's skills in battle.

They were both skillful, but how do you quantify that to mean that Ulic is better than the Exile? If anything the Exile's exploits on Malachor 5 are a lot more impressive i.e wiping out Trayus academy and then proceeding to fight an immortal in Sion and Traya. [/B]

I'll ask again, what value does being called a master swordsman have in regards to Ulic when you can't justifiably quantify his skill? He never beat anyone of Sion or Kreia's pedigree. And his battle with Kun doesn't show as anything to be impressed by.

http://www.swtimeline.ru/?comics=7&page=149

For anyone who doesn't sacrifice rational assessment for outright irrational denial, it's quite obvious that the Exile has the more impressive feats. Plus, the Exile was a prodigy as well: and don't ask me to list a dictionary definition of the word.

And you and Nai haven't won a single argument here.

Kreia holding back. The Exile being average and "lucking out". Nihilus being average outside of his drain. You haven't had a single argument worth debating over. These (above) are laughable excuses for arguments.

For one, Kreia had no reason to hold back, in fact holding back would go against everything she believed in. She believed in strength through conflict.

She believed that the Exile should learn to rely on her own strength. What she called true strength, and that was strength and/or capability outside of the force. You haven't given one convincing reason why Kreia held back.

As for the Exile's average status, you can't make a convincing argument without considering the technicalities (this is fiction, origins are made up), as well as the context that is Kotor 2. You can't expect anyone with any sense to consider your argument if you willfully ignore the Exile's achievements in Kotor 2, as well as the Exile's power (as stated by Traya and the masters).

Nothing about the Exile's force abilities or feats suggest an average Jedi i.e. force bonding with tremendous ease, gaining strength with every kill, being able to utilize opponents techniques after brief observation.

You're basing your argument on an assessment from distasteful Vrook on a padawan Exile. What does "average" even mean in this context? Did you ever think of that? Vandar - who admits to be a poor judge of talent - admits in the same recording that the Exile has a unique strength.

So, what is average referencing specifically? Lastly, the Exile's exploits in Kotor 2 i.e. saving the galaxy etc, quite clearly suggest that she's one of the best Jedi in SW history let alone Kotor, and very much capable of handling the likes of Ulic.

She beat people tougher and more powerful than Ulic after all. As for Nihilus fighting 3 - one - 1, none of them (Visas and Mandalore) would have had a prayer if not for the Exile's presence. So it's predominantly the Exile's victory.

Originally posted by xxXAcStylesXxx
Nice how you like to omit facts, part of the damn deal of the damn duel was for if Ulic won then Mandalore would bow to him and serve him. Revan on the other hand didn't wasn't the Mandalorians to bow to him. That thus renders your little point moot.

You should have a look at the Mandalorian culture, idiot. "Mandalore" normally is the most powerful Mandalorian. If Mandalore falls in Battle, the most worthy Mandalorian left will archieve the "honor" to receive that title. Now really. If you are capable of destroying the most powerful Mandalorian in a fight, none of them should try to fight you after that. You have already taken out their best - what reason would there to continue fighting.

In fact, Mandalore at first demanded a duel to the death with the prize being the future of the seven worlds in the Teta System. Ulic could have accepted that, then he could have walked in, killed Mandalore and the Mandalorians would have been gone.

I wonder why a similar offer wasn't made to Revan or why he didn't try to challenge Mandalore in a duel like that.

And aside of that Aleema does tell Ulic that Mandalore fears him just before Ulic contacts the Mandalorian.

And Ulic's victory is nothing to go nuts over as it was expressly said that Mandalore may have more skill in battle then Ulic and he sent Ulic flying with one hit, and when Ulic did the same attack back Mandalore and the unfortunate luck of being at the edge of a cliff.

Yeah, dipshit. Let's ignore how Ulic sacrificed all his advantages to give Mandalore a fair fight. He could have force choked him to death easily as Mandalore didn't have defense against that. He could have cut him down easily with his lightsaber since no Mandalorian weapon would have been a match for that in melee combat. Instead he decided not to use offensive force powers (despite the fact that he can force choke people at least) and he threw away his lightsaber.
And yes...Mandalore sends Ulic flying...when Ulic was unarmed. Ulic did totally waste Mandalore's flying mount before and when he comes back with a weapon seconds later he defeats Mandalore with a single hit. Woohoo...Two attacks and Mandalore is down.

And it says that Mandalore's skill in battle might be greater. Yet still Ulic did totally waste him as long as he had a weapon in hand.

And as I've said in the past the Great Sith Wars in an one on one battle comparison were NOTHING compared to the Mandalorian Wars, and really, I'm not doubting that Ulic was a prodigy as its implied but the Exile was also far from unskilled in her career as a Jedi, other then the fact that she was feared by the Mandalorians she was viewed as a champion amongst the order and a hero by Jedi Master Atris herself.

Whens the last time you've seen an average Jedi Knight viewed as a champion from Jedi Masters?

Lmao.
How can you still compare some few battles against people who can't use the force to the terror unleashed by the Dark Side during the Great Sith War ?
The Mandalorians during the Mandalorian wars did glass a lot of planets yes. The very same is said about Ulic and his Mandalorian forces during the GSW. I don't see much difference there.

What I do see is:
a) That serveral of Kun's actions (organized slaying of the Jedi Masters called a "Jedi pogrom"😉 were descriped as "striking the hearts" of the Jedi. The omniscient narrator even goes so far that he says that "the light side of the force is struck down by evil Sith Magic".
b) That Kun came up with superweapons like the Dark Reaper and Sadow's ancient ship who claimed the lives of millions or even billions of people.
c) That Kun as well as people like Amanoa or Ommin did very well utilize the Dark Side to "break" Jedi in combat or let's say they either did draw them to the Dark Side or killed them with that.

And actually, for all we know, there we're just two notable confrontations between Revan's Jedi forces and the Mandalorians. That would be the second Battle of Dxun (which lasted months and claimed many lives) and the devastation of Malachor V. That's it.

Someone missed the point. You can still attain the canon lightside ending by killing one of the Jedi Masters, hence why I said they don't even attempt it on the Exile if she's a darksider or if they are missing one in their ranks. Logically it can be deduced that they CAN'T perform it to the Exile as she is to powerful without all three in their ranks.

No. You missed the point again. First "lightside is canon" means that the Exile would have chosen "lightside" every time, hence killing one of the Jedi Masters isn't an option. It has never happened. And all you can deduce it, that if the Exile drains the power from a (rather powerful) Jedi Master (and as you said, that would give her more power) only THEN it's above the possibilities of two Jedi to successfully use the Wall of Light attack against her. But since she did never kill a Jedi Master (canonically) you simply can't use this as an argument.

Wait, since when did Arkania turn into Ossus? Ulic was trained at Arca's Jedi Paraxeum on Arkania, moreover theres no proof they even made trips to Ossus or Ulic learned anything significant as Arca had two other padawans to teach his brother and Tott. Doubled to the fact that we rarely see Arca ever teach anything during TOTJ and he sends three green Jedi out to stabilize a civil war. Oh what wisdom.

Wow. What a nice use of double standarts.

a) Arca was trained on Ossus as you might have noticed so he had access to the knowledge there.

b) Arca trained Ulic, Cay and Tott for years. But somehow he can't teach them any significant but Kreia can teach the Exile anything she knows in mere weeks ? Of course. I wonder where Tott learned to block starship turbolaser fire with his bare hands or were Ulic learned to simply (as it seems) block the blasterfire from Mandalore's little battle plattform during their duel. Hell...I didn't see the Exile blocking blasterfire without a lightsaber. Especially NOT fire from spaceships. As Arca's students (as it seems) all could do. Hmm...

c) And rofl @ Arca not teaching during TotJ. You see him giving lectures to Ulic almost every time they meet and that's aside from the fact that Ulic's training is already over at that point in time. That's like saying Obi-Wan never taught something to Anakin because we never see them doing lessons during the movies.

Ulic according to the Tales of the Jedi companion book did not begin his training at birth but was held back for a number of years. Now you see unlike the Exile who was stated to be trained from a very young age we don't even know how long Ulic was on Arkania.

Urm. You did notice that Ulic's mother was a Jedi Master and that Ulic did constantly search for competition in every possible field and defeated anyone who opposed him before he started his Jedi Training ? And he wasn't descriped as "mediocre" or "average" but more as "local hero of the planet Alderaan".

So wait you need, to have "1337" Sith Magic to win duels with the force now and to even be powerful? Tell that to Yoda who's one main offensive force move was the force push. Or to Anakin Skywalker. Every Jedi has the skills to use basic telekinetic attacks, the Exile is no different.

No. But the Dark Side still remains the fast path to power, as Yoda once told to Luke. For a reason, obviously, if less than 30 year old Dark Siders can kick the asses of 1,000 year old Jedi Masters. The Exile can only use Jedi power who Ulic also knows. Yet Ulic can come up with Dark Side attacks the Exile doesn't know and (in case of the amulet) is most likely not even able to counter.

Um no. Again you seem to like to omit facts to attempt to help your "argument". It was KUN and ULIC who were rippling with Dark Side energy.

That means, individually, none of them was but only together they were ? Laughable. Not to mention that the narrator manages the "astonishing transformation" of Ulic in that scene specifically.

Which amounted to what now? The few scraps of paper Naad left behind that Kun noted were incomplete that was owned by Nomi with just a few weeks of practice in how to beat it, the sith magic that was shrugged off by Exar? That Sith magic. Aleema "I kill people for fun" Keto was a joke.

This is really hilarious. Because a force prodigy (Nomi) and the Dark Lord of the Sith himself (Kun) did manage to resist her attacks (and Nomi did have some problems doing that), Aleema must be weak ? Yay. You did notice how she fooled pretty much any other Jedi with the first illusions she created (space grazers) when the Republic tried to attack the Krath ? That's like saying because Yoda is capable of blocking the force lightning of Dooku and Sidious they both must be weaklings. Pfft...

And it was incomplete knowledge, yes. Compareable to what Kun had which was just all knowledge of the Ancient Sith. And that "scraps of paper" actually were a complete book filled with Sith knowledge.

Anakin was kicking the shit out of Obi Wan, due to his superior skills, superior physical power and superior connection to the force.

Oh yes baby, you do look like an ass clown now.

And who lost the battle despite of vastly superior force powers ? Ups. Who is the "ass clown" now, idiot ? Which doesn't even have bearing on this debate because you can in no way proof that the Exile's raw force power is superior to that of Ulic. Oh wait. That earns you the ass clown award for the most retarded poster I've ever seen.

cont...

...cont.

Any proof they're stronger under Indomitable rather then Ultimate?None, yeah I thought so. And stop nutting your pants over this feat, it wasn't that as Ulic was not only being beaten by Mandalore in the comic, he was sent flying through the air and only "won" because he punched Mandalore and he fell of a cliff. Lame.

Yes. Your beloved Kreia does actually state that they were becoming weaker and weaker. The Mandalorians did obviously lose troops during the GSW and they followed a less powerful leader. Do I have to draw you a picture with the obvious conclusion ?

And woohoo...Mandalore send Ulic flying with that single hit. And that hit was only landed because Ulic did throw his weapon away. Nice how you still fail to notice that.

It was enough to take on Jedi Masters, it was enough skill to enable him to cause Traya to quake in fear and lose her focus. And other then the sheer amount of will it takes to keep his body together which was said to have thousands of skeletal fractions and breaks, none the less he was being amplified by the dark power of Malachor, he was pretty damn powerful.

Oh. It was enough to slay a single Jedi Master of unknown power or duelling skill. Impressive. Traya "quaked in fear" ? Yeah. That's why she's confronting him at the very beginning of the game and why he always taunts him for not having learned anything. And of course...DA DARK POWAAAA OF MALAACHOOOR ! Is this compareable to the Dark Power of Iziz summoned by Amanoa ? The Darkness that was real darkness meaning the lights went out once it was summoned ? That Darkness that clouded the minds of thousands of warriors and left them with feelings of "fear and despair" ? The Darkness which was called the "ultimate weapon" ? The Darkness that rendered Jedi unable to even think properly ? I wonder...

All he did was run up and slash, sure he resisted the dark side energies but thats about the only thing impressive in that whole scene as without the armour Warb was nothing.

Where did you f*cking see Warb Null "without the armor" ? He runs onto the battle fields, proceeds with owning the sorry asses of Cay and Ulic and next time we see him he can only watch Ulic slaughtering a nice amount of Ommin's soldiers before finally cutting Warb's head off.

And yes. Ulic did "just" overcome the Dark Side energies of Ommin who totally kicked Arca's ass and clouded the minds of all person on the battlefield to an extend that they were barely able to fight. This while torturing Arca with Dark Side energies. Ommin was owning Jedi Knights and Master with mere gestures. Ulic did overcome him almost too easily. And this is Ulic more than a year before reaching his "best shape".

He used the amulet against Naad:

http://www.swtimeline.ru/?comics=7&page=104

Oh. You genious. Did he also have the amulet with him when confronting Ulic ? Yes. Does Ulic possess an exact copy of said amulet obviously capable of doing the same ? Yes. Go figure...

First off what the f*ck is a master swordsman? What the hell does that even mean? I can name you other "master swordsman" Plo Koon, Tinn, Kit Fisto, Sora Bluq, Darllig, Sora Keto (somewhat) Qui Gon Jinn, Depa, Anoon ect ect ect. The fact remains that Ulic has done nothing dueling wise outside of OHKOing Warb that makes him above and beyond all the others I've listed, so for you to even be toting his status as "masterswordsman" as the be all end all of this debate is quite silly.

It's quite obvious that Ulic was a prodigy of his era. Given that he was unmatched, except by Kun. Aside of that: Yes he killed Warb Null. The same guy that tossed Oss and Cay around with apparent ease. The guy that was possessed by an Ancient Sith. You know...one of the same Ancient Sith that would make people like the Exile and Kreia herself look like "children playing with toys" because of their "prowess in battle". And Ulic did take one of them down. Again: Go figure...

The same goes for Exar Kun at that point in time, who's sole feat of lightsaber prowess rest in breaking his masters stick then getting planted on his ass. Which as we further see is far from a big deal as Vodo you know sucks and Padawans all across the galaxy about 6 months later were beating their masters asses.

Oh yes. We've seen so many people in the SW universe coming up with completely unique weapons (oh no. That was just Kun) and designing completely new fighting styles (oh wait. That would be limited to Mace and Kun). Obviously the guy has no idea about swordfighting. And Masters were killed by their padawans. Yay ! As you might have noticed said "Padawans" were infused with power / knowledge of Ancient Sith as Kun says directly before sending them off. Indeed when finding the last killed master the comment given by the Jedi is that the assassin "must have had powerful weapons" in order to kill that Master. And she even died in that process.

Back to my original point, a master swordsman equates to what exactly? In other words I want you to quantify it.

Going by the single fact alone that Kun was capable of coming up with a completely unique weapon and a corresponding style in the matter of months I'd say he must at least be on par with Mace Windu in sheer lightsaber combat. And Ulic must still come rather close to that as they were descriped as equal. So I personally view Ulic as a mixture of Dooku (blade work) and Anakin (brutality). That would be leagues above the Exile, actually.

Originally posted by xxXAcStylesXxx
In the case of the Exile depending on her opponents level of skill: It does, as she can mimic anything displayed to her perfectly, and turn it back on the user, again Ulics status as "master swordsman" is rendered useless.

What does it take to become a master swordsman or even master one single form of lightsaber combat ? People are actually training that art over decades. If you take somebody like Ulic or just a single style, you would notice that one style alone includes dozens or hundrets of different movements, on top of that improvisation. Really...how should the Exile "mimic" that all before Ulic cuts her into pieces ? This is no training session.

Horrid analogy.

1. Your not force sensitive.

2. You don't have very advanced precognitive abilities that allow you to do this in the first place

3. Other then your choice of martial artists is ridicules, neither of them do "Kung Fu"

4. To further show how bad your analogy is Bruce Lee practiced his own made up shit called Jeet Kun Do which is a "style with no style" there is no form, there are no stances.

Oh my...
The point is that no matter how much force sensitivity or precognition you have, you do have to learn how to handle a blade properly unless you want to declare that Jedi training in general is useless and so are practice sessions. Because everyone and their mothers can simply "learn a style by viewing" in the matter of seconds. This is especially a senseless argument if you consider that the Exile would only know what Ulic shows her and she has to know it before Ulic does so to avoid getting tooled. Not possible.

It was enough to resist be powerful enough that it took 3 Jedi Masters to perform the Wall of light on her.

Bullshit. See above.

Then you ignored my other point of Bane vs Kas'im.

"The outcome was inevitable. bane was simply too strong in the force ." PoD pg 242

What was that now?

As I said. That has no impact on the debate unless you proof that the Exile is vastly superior to Ulic in terms of force power which, given the Sith amulet and Ulic's prodigious talents again, is speculative if not completely wrong.

Guess dipshit forgot who made this topic: me, that means I pick when the characters are set ,not you . And when is it said that the passage of time from the union of Ulic and Kun and the battle of Corscant. I was under the impression it was a few weeks, not months.

And here comes the last resort of the loser. Changing the battle. You have not defined any time frame for the characters, thus meaning that they are in their top shape. Don't ridicule yourself.
And the time passage is mentioned in the introduction of "The Sith War": "It has been six months since former enemies Exar Kun and Ulic Qel-Droma have joined forces..."

Or how about Kun was shooting DBZ sized blasts on his first try

http://www.swtimeline.ru/?comics=7&page=102

where as Ulic on his first try managed the stunning task of knocking down an defenseless Jedi. And having her get right back up two whole seconds later.

http://www.swtimeline.ru/?comics=7&page=144

They are not even comparable.

Aside of the fact that said comics were drawn by different artists which would actually explain that incident completely: Kun had advice from Nadd how to use the amulet. And the first blast Kun did shoot. Erm...doesn't look much greater than that what Ulic produced otherwise it should have obliterated the beast instantly as he was shooting right into the beast's mouth. Compare that to the second blast that tears the temple wall apart or the ones following which tear giant holes into the beasts. So Kun's amulet blasts did grow stronger in the matter of mere seconds, after the fight (some minutes, maybe some hours) he had enough control over the amulet to exterminate Nadd's spirit. To assume that Ulic has not mastered the amulet to a compareable extend after six months is pretty stupid.

cont...

...cont.

Other then she was specifically countering Aleema's Sith magic as the narrator made a point of saying:

"Nomi had prepared for this moment."

Haha. This is getting better and better. So Nomi had even prepared to counter Aleema's attack but still Aleema is weak. Uh-hu. Smartass.

Where as when she's talking to Ulic in BM which Bastila has said leaves her defenseless and weakened to the point that average thugs can take her on in a fight.

Wow. WTF ? I must have missed Nomi sitting on her ass, her eyes closed and totally focused to change the outcome of a freaking battle when using her Battle Meditation - which happens to be the case with Bastilla. Hell...Arca Jeth was using this power while navigating his ship. Urm. The Exile even RUNS AROUND while using Battle Meditation and destroys people. Somehow Bastilla seems to be the only person who is vunerable in that situation. While it makes everyone else stronger.

And Cay warns her in the same shot as him shooting her.

Come on son, keep up.

Obviously Nomi's battle meditation did STRENGTHEN her defence as she used it to DEFEND herself against Aleema's deadly attack just seconds before. Yet she was not capable of stopping the amulet blast. Again: Go figure...

As the best Ulic can do with it is to knock down a defenseless weakened Jedi who recovers a second latter, I'd say he wouldn't need the help of such impressive and strong force users like Cay Qel Droma .

One second is enough for Ulic to cut the Exile into small pieces. Seen when the slaughters the soldiers in front of Warb Null before said Dark Sider is even capable of turning around.

Um the f*ck we can't. We never see Ulic use it again outside of the incident in discussion, when he does have a perfect opportunity to use it and display it to the level that Kun does (ie: in his first part of the duel with Mandalore, and when he's out numbered by the Jedi above Coruscant) he doesn't, so we can logically conclude that he doesn't get any batter with it what so ever because after his duel with Kun we see NO dramatic increase in Ulics own personal power.

LMFAO. Are you freaking blind.
No. Ulic's power isn't increasing after the duel with Kun. Hence the narrator notices an "astonishing transformation" which happened to Ulic in terms of power. And where should he haved used the amulet ? In the duel with Mandalore ? Considering he even threw his lightsaber away because he considered it to be "unfair" using the amulet was not an option. And when confronting the Jedi ? Notice how he was almost instantly hit by the Wall of Light coming from Nomi and Vodo. I guess it's hard to use some force based amulet when you have no connection to the force any longer...

And this logic of passage of time = increased skill is in direct contradiction to your "Exile is average even after a decade plus" pick a damn argument.

And as you always forget she didn't use the force or a lightsaber for five years of this "decade" not to mention he just "rediscovered" her connection to the force some weeks (months) at best before the end of KotoR 2 and had to relearn everything from the start on (basically).
So we aren't talking about a power increase over years but a power increase from "non force user" to "Jedi" over the courtesy of some weaks / months.

And Ulic did actually perform most of his feats before he even duelled Kun when after the duel his increase of power was "astonishing".

No, I'm not giving him any powers he doesn't display in the source material. Simple as that.

Haha. If you don't want to use logical reasoning: okay. So I don't give the Exile any power that hasn't been demonstrated in cut scenes. Guess we can end the debate then since that would amount to almost ZERO force power demonstrated.

So wait let me get this straight...Cay Qel Droma and f*cking Qrrrl Toq have enough force power to hold down Uliq Qel Droma? LOL. Not only that Toq managed to overpower Ulic with ONE HAND:

http://www.swtimeline.ru/?comics=7&page=144

If he's as powerful as your trying to make him out to be he should have blasted them BOTH away with his rage alone, moreover he should have annihilated Nomi with one blast given the state of rage he was in.

Yay. They were using physical strength + force power. Qrrrl Toq doesn't exactly appear to be a weakling and Cay does have a artificial arm in case you didn't notice that. And the extend of their force powers is still unknown. And they didn't manage to hold Ulic (who was also wounded in that situation if you didn't notice the bandages) down exactly. They hardly managed to force him down on his knees and hold him for how long ? 5 seconds ?

And yet, it takes the collective force power of three Jedi Masters one being one of the most powerful in the galaxy, to even consider using the Wall of Light on the Exile. Puh-les Ulic in terms of force ability does NOT compare.

Dumb argument. Already dealt with. And you really want to put the KotoR 2 Jedi Master on one level with one 600 year old Jedi Master and an prodigious force user that, some years after starting her training, had already advanced to the de-facto-leader of the Jedi Order.

What are you talking about, it took an pissed of Nomi Sunrider ALONE to affect Ulic, thats it.

Yeah. When Ulic was sitting on the ground crying because he had just slaughtered his own brother. He didn't even want to stop Nomi

Originally posted by Allankles
I'll ask again, what value does being called a master swordsman have in regards to Ulic when you can't justifiably quantify his skill? He never beat anyone of Sion or Kreia's pedigree. And his battle with Kun doesn't show as anything to be impressed by.

For anyone who doesn't sacrifice rational assessment for outright irrational denial, it's quite obvious that the Exile has the more impressive feats. Plus, the Exile was a prodigy as well: and don't ask me to list a dictionary definition of the word.

And you and Nai haven't won a single argument here.

Kreia holding back. The Exile being average and "lucking out". Nihilus being average outside of his drain. You haven't had a single argument worth debating over. These (above) are laughable excuses for arguments.

For one, Kreia had no reason to hold back, in fact holding back would go against everything she believed in. She believed in strength through conflict.

As for the Exile's average status, you can't make a convincing argument without considering the technicalities (this is fiction, origins are made up), as well as the context that is Kotor 2. You can't expect anyone with any sense to consider your argument if you willfully ignore the Exile's achievements in Kotor 2, as well as the Exile's power (as stated by Traya and the masters).

Nothing about the Exile's force abilities or feats suggest an average Jedi i.e. force bonding with tremendous ease, gaining strength with every kill, being able to utilize opponents techniques after brief observation.

You're basing your argument on an assessment from distasteful Vrook on a padawan Exile. What does "average" even mean in this context? Did you ever think of that? Vandar - who admits to be a poor judge of talent - admits in the same recording that the Exile has a unique strength.

So, what is average referencing specifically? Lastly, the Exile's exploits in Kotor 2 i.e. saving the galaxy etc, quite clearly suggest that she's one of the best Jedi in SW history let alone Kotor, and very much capable of handling the likes of Ulic.

She beat people tougher and more powerful than Ulic after all. As for Nihilus fighting 3 - one - 1, none of them (Visas and Mandalore) would have had a prayer if not for the Exile's presence. So it's predominantly the Exile's victory. [/B]

Originally posted by Allankles
I'll ask again, what value does being called a master swordsman have in regards to Ulic when you can't justifiably quantify his skill? He never beat anyone of Sion or Kreia's pedigree. And his battle with Kun doesn't show as anything to be impressed by.

Oh my. I don't know how often I have to state this again:

a) Kreia compares herself and the people of her time (at least the Exile) to children playing with toys compared to the Ancient Sith and their "prowess in battle".

b) Warb Null was an Ancient Sith possessing another person. Kun in terms of abilities has been noted to be on par if not above the Ancient Sith (at least most of them)

c) Ulic did destroy Warb Null in a duell. And he stalemated Kun.

By Kreia's own statement there is no reason to even debate here. Ulic defeated an individual that belonged to a group of individuals that Kreia says to be vastly superior to herself and the Exile. And this is Ulic far away from the "top" of his power.

For anyone who doesn't sacrifice rational assessment for outright irrational denial, it's quite obvious that the Exile has the more impressive feats. Plus, the Exile was a prodigy as well: and don't ask me to list a dictionary definition of the word.

Where the HELL does the Exile have more impressive feats, eh ?

Ulic destroyed an Ancient Sith. One of the people Kreia bascially views as godlike beings. Ulic destroyed Ommin who had enough Dark Side power to shroud Iziz completely with powers that made it hard to even think for the Jedi. Then he jumped through a Dark Side attack that just floored 4 or 5 Jedi instantly or - as it appears in the comic - sends them flying. Again coming from the person that tooled Arca Jeth with apparent ease and kept him as prisoner torturing him without having to care about him much.

And this is before Ulic duels Kun. And after that duel (being marked by Ragnos) he must have gained some giant load of power as the narrator descripes what happened to Ulic as "astonishing transformation" that made him and Kun "rippling with Dark Side energy". Which is nice given that he already was damn powerful before that incident happened.

Kreia holding back. The Exile being average and "lucking out". Nihilus being average outside of his drain. You haven't had a single argument worth debating over. These (above) are laughable excuses for arguments.

Woah. Even you should actually see that if the Exile hasn't been a "wound in the force" both Nihilus and Kreia would have been able to kill her on the spot rather easily. So I consider it "lucky" that, without her even knowing, she developed that unique nature.

For one, Kreia had no reason to hold back, in fact holding back would go against everything she believed in. She believed in strength through conflict.

Man. It doesn't matter. The fact that is not deniable is, that Kreia was limited because she wasn't able to use her "instakill" against the Exile. A normal force drain would also have failed her. Yet the only testament of Kreia's actual skill is exactly that instakill used against the Jedi Masters on Dantooine that wouldn't work against the Exile. And this is (canonically) the only powerful Dark Side technique she did know.

This is not even remotely compareable to Kun who mastered all knowledge available on Sith magic / alchemy before he came to kill Ulic.

As for the Exile's average status, you can't make a convincing argument without considering the technicalities (this is fiction, origins are made up), as well as the context that is Kotor 2. You can't expect anyone with any sense to consider your argument if you willfully ignore the Exile's achievements in Kotor 2, as well as the Exile's power (as stated by Traya and the masters).

Nothing about the Exile's force abilities or feats suggest an average Jedi i.e. force bonding with tremendous ease, gaining strength with every kill, being able to utilize opponents techniques after brief observation.

You're basing your argument on an assessment from distasteful Vrook on a padawan Exile. What does "average" even mean in this context? Did you ever think of that? Vandar - who admits to be a poor judge of talent - admits in the same recording that the Exile has a unique strength.

So, what is average referencing specifically? Lastly, the Exile's exploits in Kotor 2 i.e. saving the galaxy etc, quite clearly suggest that she's one of the best Jedi in SW history let alone Kotor, and very much capable of handling the likes of Ulic.

Oh. You want CONTEXT ? I'll give you some context.
Exar Kun has been descriped as the single most powerful entity in the entire Galaxy. His own creator did state (and this after the release of Kotor 2) that Kun is one of the two most powerful Sith Lords ever (the other one would be DE Sidious). That directly puts Kun above or at least on par with people that grasp on the Dark Side Kreia descriped as "frightening" and of which she said that she would make herself and the Exile look like children playing with toys because of their "prowess in battle".

And Ulic did stalemate Kun and defeated one of said Ancient Sith who hover in heaven above Kreia in terms of force powers and combat skill - according to her own words. But the Exile should be able to handle Ulic Qel-Droma ? Because she defeated some people that even the minor Dark Siders in the TOTJ comics would wipe the floor with ?

She beat people tougher and more powerful than Ulic after all. As for Nihilus fighting 3 - one - 1, none of them (Visas and Mandalore) would have had a prayer if not for the Exile's presence. So it's predominantly the Exile's victory.

LMAO. Yay. You did notice how Nihilus first weakend himself when trying to drain the Exile and was then further weakened by Visas. The Exile alone had NOT A CHANCE to take Nihilus down on her own despite her "wound in the force" abilty. So it's not "the Exile's victory". Without Visas at last she would have died right there which is pretty obvious. You can leave that battle out of this debate.

And Sion and Kreia a both not compareable to people Ulic either fought (Kun) or defeated (Ommin, Warb Null), considering what powers they demonstrated in the comics. Especially since Kreia's only impressive ability (the instakill) is totaly worthless agains the Exile.

Originally posted by Borbarad
Oh my. I don't know how often I have to state this again:

a) Kreia compares herself and the people of her time (at least the Exile) to children playing with toys compared to the Ancient Sith and their "prowess in battle".

b) Warb Null [b]was an Ancient Sith possessing another person. Kun in terms of abilities has been noted to be on par if not above the Ancient Sith (at least most of them)

c) Ulic did destroy Warb Null in a duell. And he stalemated Kun.

By Kreia's own statement there is no reason to even debate here. Ulic defeated an individual that belonged to a group of individuals that Kreia says to be vastly superior to herself and the Exile. And this is Ulic far away from the "top" of his power.[/B]

First of all we've already adressed this argument.

Kreia was clearly talking about lightsaber combat and none of the anceint Sith we've encountered used lightsabers. So your point as regards the ancient Sith here is moot. Ragnos' Sith didn't use lightsabers, so Kreia never admitted to be inferior to Ragnos' Sith. Get your facts straight before using quotes.

Second, Warb Null was nothing special. He's armor was his trump card yet it wasn't even resistant to lightsabers as Ulic proved. Are you trying to compare Warb Null to Traya and Sion? I hope not, because that would be sheer stupidity.

Warb Null was the spirit of an ancient Sith, who possesed the body of a lightsaber wielding dark Jedi. So he'd obviously use his victims weapon.

Secondly, if Kreia is to be believed then Kun and Ulic wouldn't have a chance either against the ancient lightsber users, seeing as Kreia was part of Kun and Ulic's generation. You never thought of that did you genius?

Originally posted by Borbarad

Where the HELL does the Exile have more impressive feats, eh ?

You know. Beating a planet eating Sith Lord. Beating a powerful Sith capable of destroying three of the most powerful Jedi Master of her time with one application of the force. Beating a virtual immortal. Destroying a plethora of Sith Lords, Sith troopers and Sith acolytes in the Trayus academy. She's a beast in comparison to Ulic. Not to mention disabling criminal syndicates, ending civil wars virtually single handedly and saving the galaxy etc etc

Originally posted by Borbarad
Ulic destroyed Ommin who had enough Dark Side power to shroud Iziz completely with powers that made it hard to even think for the Jedi. Then he jumped through a Dark Side attack that just floored 4 or 5 Jedi instantly or - as it appears in the comic - sends them flying. Again coming from the person that tooled Arca Jeth with apparent ease and kept him as prisoner torturing him without having to care about him much.?

Are you talking about this King Ommin.

http://www.swtimeline.ru/?comics=4&page=045

Sure it was impressive of Ulic to resist Ommin's powers with the light side of the force but outside of the that, Ommin was a push over. It is in no way more impressive than the Exile's top feats.

Arca Jeth was powerful, relatively speaking, but I seriously doubt he was anything to shout about. He was no Kreia that's for sure.

Originally posted by Borbarad

Woah. Even you should actually see that if the Exile hasn't been a "wound in the force" both Nihilus and Kreia would have been able to kill her on the spot rather easily. So I consider it "lucky" that, without her even knowing, she developed that unique nature.

This is the dumbest pro Ulic argument on this thread, yet you insist on repeating it time and again.

Technically, there's nothing lucky about the Exile's powers and abilities, they were carefully crafted to fit into the Kotor 2 plot and as such the Exile is far from "lucky". By this logic Ulic was lucky to be force sensitive. I mean, are you really this thick?

Originally posted by Borbarad

Man. It doesn't matter. The [b]fact that is not deniable is, that Kreia was limited because she wasn't able to use her "instakill" against the Exile. A normal force drain would also have failed her. Yet the only testament of Kreia's actual skill is exactly that instakill used against the Jedi Masters on Dantooine that wouldn't work against the Exile. And this is (canonically) the only powerful Dark Side technique she did know.

This is not even remotely compareable to Kun who mastered all knowledge available on Sith magic / alchemy before he came to kill Ulic. [/B]

Why would Kreia's knowledge be limited to force drain? Secondly, when did Sith magic constitute the entirety of Sith knowledge. Traya performed and demonstrated knowledge of techniques Kun never demonstrated and vice versa. I wouldn't say Kun was more knowledgable, in fact on evidence of the stories, Kreia has shown more knowledge.

Originally posted by Borbarad

Oh. You want CONTEXT ? I'll give you some context.
His own creator did state (and this after the release of Kotor 2) that Kun is one of the two most powerful Sith Lords ever (the other one would be DE Sidious)

😂

An authors comments on his own character?
Are you aware at how absolutely worthless Anderson's comments are?! You sound like SW Legend talking about the POD authors comments on Revan. Seriously, stop displaying the depths of your stupidity. Leave fan comments, as fan comments. And yes, outside of his novels Anderson is just another fan.

Originally posted by Borbarad
And Ulic did stalemate Kun and defeated one of said Ancient Sith who hover in heaven above Kreia in terms of force powers and combat skill - according to [b]her own words. But the Exile should be able to handle Ulic Qel-Droma ? Because she defeated some people that even the minor Dark Siders in the TOTJ comics would wipe the floor with [/B]

Of course, Totj minors would handle the likes of Nihilus and Sion? 🙄 Easy there bro, we know you like Ulic but this is getting ridiculous. Nihilus is more powerful than Kun. Traya is more powerful than Ulic. The Exile would be favourite to handle a Ulic Qel Droma.

Originally posted by Borbarad

LMAO. Yay. You did notice how Nihilus first weakend himself when trying to drain the Exile and was then further weakened by Visas. The Exile alone had [b]NOT A CHANCE to take Nihilus down on her own despite her "wound in the force" abilty. So it's not "the Exile's victory". Without Visas at last she would have died right there which is pretty obvious. You can leave that battle out of this debate.

And Sion and Kreia a both not compareable to people Ulic either fought (Kun) or defeated (Ommin, Warb Null), considering what powers they demonstrated in the comics. Especially since Kreia's only impressive ability (the instakill) is totaly worthless agains the Exile. [/B]

Yeah! You clearly got my point. 🙄

I said if not for the Exile Nihilus woudn't have gone down to anyone (at least not in a face to face battle), and that's why it's predominantly the Exiles' victory.

Kreia and Nihilus are both more powerful than Ulic. Sion is more dangerous than Ommin and Warb Null is about as impressive as Darth Bandon. Stop with the madness.