Jedi Exile vs Ulic Qel Droma

...cont.

Then why didn't she simply lay down her lightsaber and give in when the Exile beats her the first time? If she wasn't willingly to kill the Exile then what was the point of the test? Kreia had until that point spent almost every waking minute of the day with the Exile so its safe to say she had a pretty accurate gauge of her strength. So Kreia really didn't have to fight her, and if she wanted the Exile to get away scott free with all her little conflicts resolved so she could run off and fight the Sith, she could have just let the Exile detonate the remnant MSG and be done with it. But as it turns out she was directly opposed to that.

Was defeating your own argument willfully done or was that just some mistake on your sight. As you said: Kreia did spent almost every waking minute with the Exile and already knew how powerful the Exile was. So what should be the point of testing that strength again ? Kreia basically knows the result of that "test" before coming up with it. As I said: Kreia did want to fight the Exile because she didn't want to live any longer as she has grown tired of relying on the force which she did hate. That's what she says herself after the Exile did actually defeat her. Yet she did want to prepare the Exile for the journey into the outer regions once again. She did need that personal confrontation but I still don't see why she should have wanted to kill the Exile. Aside from the fact that she must have known that she couldn't do that it would have destroyed all effort she did put into the Exile.

In the final battle with Kreia, after you offer to redeem her, she denys this and says that their can only be one victor and that it can only end in death, and she threatens that if the Exile cannot win she would break her like she did Sion. After you beat her the first time and refuse to fight her she breaks of into a frenzy calling up her lightsabers to kill the Exile. Now I ask you: why is someone who is holding back going to such desperate measures to kill?

What desperate measures to kill ? She took desperate measures to ensure that the Exile will kill her / mortally wound her. She's eager not to survive this fight but that still doesn't mean she did want to kill the Exile.

Oh and to further prove my point on the Exiles skill, she does indeed beat Kreia in a lightsaber duel, as she hacks off Kreia's other hand, after the first defeat, you can clearly see her nursing her new found wound, thats the whole reason as to why she calls up the Telekinetic controlled sabers, then if you try to engage her in combat you clearly see two stumps and no fists, also its in the developers notes.

Yeah. I'm sure that Kreia is uber skilled in the art of lightsaber combat fencing with her offhand as Sion did already took her main weapon hand off.

Just an added note as to why this victory is so impressive, because of how damn powerful Kreia was, not only with her draining ability, her Telekinetic lightsaber control which she used to such an aptitude that they could behave independent of each other, not only cloaking her self in the force to such a degree that she could literally stand infront of force users and they wouldn't see her, but she had abilities that are only mimicked by Cade Skywalker in Legacy, that is the ability to bring someone back who is on the brink of death, she does this to Tobin:

"Though it has been some time since I exercised my healing powers, there is a shred of life within you still."
¯Kreia to Colonel Tobin

As said the only other time this is done (To my knowledge is by Cade) in which Luke himself admits he couldn't even do:

You have a talent to heal others unlike any I've ever known - Luke to Cade. [/B]

I wonder why Kreia did simply kept healing herself in the fight with the Exile if she absolutely wanted to kill the Exile then. Ups.

Aside of that Luke was capable to reanimate himself, get poisoned air out of his lungs and heals at least one almost mortal wound while being knocked of in the first book of the Callista trilogy. Then we have Cil'gal who obviously also has vast healing abilties considering how she cured Mon Mothma.

Aside of that, Kreia is still not compareable to somebody like Exar Kun. Moving objects independant from each other ? Luke was capable of doing this after some days or weeks of training under Yoda (several stones, R2D2 in ESB). Cloaking oneself in the force ? Asajj Ventress was capable of doing that before she even received training by Dooku (seen when she sneaks up to Dooku in the CW cartoons). Actually Kreia's most impressive feat is to kill the Jedi Masters on Dantooine which was pretty nice - no argument there. However...Kun managed to do pretty much the same to Odan Urr who, at this time, was one of the most powerful individuals in the Jedi Order. That aside from tossing people like Sylvar and Aleema around like ragdolls with his force abilities.

Originally posted by xxXAcStylesXxx
How do we know he didn't use the force passively to enhance his, physical strength, speed and agility to levels Mandalor couldn't match. As a matter of fact isn't that what he did when he cleaved through Mandalores weapon?

Since that wasn't an option when the TOTJ comics were written as the fighting was based on the craptastic choreography of the OT where nobody does actually exhibit superhuman speed in a duel and were superhuman strength is just given to Vader because of his cyborg body.

Hence why I ignored it, I've never disputed Kun's power, but the majority of those feats you went on about in your other post happened to Kun AFTER his duel with Ulic when he had reached his status as "Most powerful being of the age." and at that point had they duel Kun would have tooled him.

Oh my. When Kun did go to fight Ulic he had already destroyed Nadd's spirit and read through whatever Sadow left behind. He also did defeat Vodo at that point in time already and he was capable of simply blasting Aleema aside as if she were nothing. After that he does what to improve his power ? He obviously is busy designing his new weapon, the corresponding fighting style, teaching some people and have some nice war going on. But I didn't see him doing actually "training" much after his duel with Ulic.

Because after there initial lightsaber clash which I surmise took a few seconds in the very next panel Ulic is in a full sprint down the corridor. Thus why I said it was him running away and "fending off" would be a rather, wrong term to use. As it was likely Ulic running and parrying the blows that he could using his physical strength and remnant skill so he DOESN'T get owned in seconds.

The point is that he was fighting an enraged Jedi. Now look at what happens when Jedi that lost control do enter actual combat. Luke kicks Vaders sorry ass across the place in seconds, Anakin does the same with Dooku pretty much. Ulic pretty much did the same to Cay just before. Now given the natural advantages of a force user over a non-force user (reflexes, minor forsight and so on) it's pretty impressive that he lasted more than seconds. And of course he did run away at one point. He's still shown to defend against Sylvar who obviously did come to kill him over a rather long time.

If thats the case Jango Fett, kills multiple Jedi at the same time with his bar hands. Go figure.

Yeah. The deadliest man in the Galaxy which later did become Mandalore. Now you can judge how impressive it was that Ulic did actually defeat the Mandalore at a time where the Mandalorians where in their prime and not on the edge of extinction as they were in Jango Fett's time.

I'll admit he has physical strength over the Exile, in Redemption the dudes a damn brute.

Actually those people in the TOTJ comics are all pretty damn brutes. Kun simply pushing Sylvar down was especially funny.

And can we save the insults and useless sarcasm, I don't want to have anther pointless flame war, with kids who have ego problems.

I guess that doesn't apply to me as I'm seven years older than you and don't have ego problems. 😛

"It is a technique that is almost as old as the Sith themselves... it is a means of severing connections between life, the Force, and feeding upon the death it causes. It cannot be taught ... it can only be gained through instinct, through experiencing its effects, first-hand."
¯Kreia

Its about Nihlius, and his drain, and it blows a hole (I think) in the whole "The power is nothing special and can be learned" argument.

Erm. Actually Kreia says it cannot be taught but it can be gained through instinct and EXPERIENCING it. So obviously it can be learned and somehow obviously Nihilus as well as Kreia did learn it.

"Because Atris' path is one I walked long ago, and it is a chapter of my life that has been read and closed. She has taken the first steps, I think -we shall see. Surely you felt the righteous anger, the spoken judgments, the lack of forgiveness. I was a historian once, gathering the relics of the Jedi, learning the ancient mysteries. Always, there were more questions." - Kreia

The long ago is still no exact definition and aside of that I already told you why it doesn't matter.

Originally posted by Borbarad
Sion does himself say his attraction to the Exile is a weakness and he senses (his own) death in said weakness. I wonder how this doesn't matter. And for Nihilus: Having Mandalore and Visas helping out in that fight is already enough, don't you think so ?

Again. It's the killing of that person which might give her a temporary power boost but how exactly should that make her stronger ? If anything she could have received some very minor boosts in terms of force energy (which minor I mean that even the game doesn't realize them in the form of additional force energy everytime you slay an opponent).

That being said the only "viable" sources for power would be other fully trained Jedi and the Sith Lords. As the Exile canonically didn't slay the Jedi Masters, didn't "slay" Sion and wasn't able to receive power from Nihilus (seen when Nihilus tries to train her and is weakened) - the only viable source for power would be Kreia herself. So I wonder where this "gift" is of any matter in a match of Ulic VS the Exile, especially when Ulic did already start with being an exceptional student of the force when the Exile started as "average Jedi".

It's nice how you simply ignored what I've actually written. Kreia does admit in the end that she did love the Exile and yet she still wanted the Exile to join Revan. As I said: This statement was most likely done to cheer the Exile up. Aside of that: How would Kreia know the full extend of Revan's power ? She did recognize him as a Sith Lord and wasn't really close to him for all we know during that time. Yet Malak in the end of KotoR does say that Revan had become more powerful than he was ever before.

No. She can not go and help Revan herself because she's so easily affected through the Dark Side. She doesn't even dare to leave the ship when the group visits Korriban because of that. How should she stay "tuned" in a place filled with Ancient Sith ? She wanted to die. That's why she's bothering with the Exile.

How would the victory be pointless if Kreia wasn't willing to give the Exile all she could ? The Exile did practically earn everything at the same moment she managed to defeat Nihilus, which Kreia herself wasn't capable of. It's not as if I said that Kreia simply stood there and did let the Exile kill her easily. Obviously that wasn't the case. Yet how should Kreia be able to actually kill a person who she loved, as she did admit herself after the fight ? For the sake of her philosophy which in this circumstances would have let her a) kill a beloved being that was b) her only hope for archieving the goals she had ? That's illogical.

Oh my. Did you ever suffer from a broken bone ? If you break your arm: Does it fall off instantly ? Obviously not. If your skin is burned, does that mean your body falls apart ? I don't think so. Sion kept the overall structure of his body intact using his willpower. Yet he still haven't answer how he would be able to keep limbs or his head attached to his body if somebody cuts them off. And he doesn't have any wounds on his body that would result in his body parts falling off if he stopped with that influence. Or did he fall into pieces after finally being defeated by the Exile ? He just drops dead on the ground. Using your logic he should have ended up in different corners of the room after the Exile sliced him into pieces multiple times.

Learn how to use some logic and common sense. Or at least how to use the quote function on this board.

Where exactly is it stated that the boost is temporary? Nowhere the boost is permanent. That's why it is such a great power. You have not provided any evidence to support your statement while I and others such as xxXAcStylesXxx have provided plenty of evidence to support our points. Until you do I don't see why I or anyone else should trust your opinion on the Exile's power.

The Exile did slay Sion it's just that he keeps coming back. You keep claiming that the Exile was talking to Sion during their duel but there is no evidence supporting your claim. Truth is that they talked between duels. That has been shown in the game your opinion cannot override what has been shown and stated in the game. Unless someone breaks Sion's will he can't be killed. I'm sure Ulic Qel Droma could break his will but if he doesn't than he can't win. In fact if Sion's will was "unbreakable" than no one except Nihilus would have been able to kill him.

It's nice to see you confirm yet again that you have not paid attention to the game. Kreia didn't send the Exile to join Revan, she gave him/her a choice whether to stay on Malachor, return to exile or go search for Revan. She didn't know what the Exile would choose (evidenced by the DS and LS endings). Kreia "loved" the Exile because she saw in him/her that the will of the Force can be denied but not in the true sense of love. Malak does indeed state that Revan has become stronger but Kreia still knows his power (Revan's) quite well. Who would know Revan's power better his ex-apprentice or his Master ? Even if Revan has grown a bit stronger and Kreia only knows his level of power before his "rebirth" her's statement still confirms that the Exile is far beyond the overage Jedi/Sith. Oh and have actually seen Kreia cheer up someone in the entire game? Did she cheer up the Exile when he/she was choking in the Jek Jek Tarr? "Don't worry Exile you'll be just fine. I'll teach you a new Force power and you'll kick some alien ass." No I don't remember it that way. No Wait I remember! When he/she was facing Sion on Korriban she said "Don't worry Exile, you can do it! You can beat him! Just break his will!" No Wait that didn't happen either. Show me a moment where Kreia cheers the Exile or anyone else. However I am sure you can't because Kreia doesn't cheer anyone she manipulates people and usually by some cruel means (just like with Atton).

Easily affected by the Dark Side? Really? Or maybe she didn't want to face Sion. Because if she did he could have reveal her identity to the Exile. If she is so Easily affected by the DS then why did she continue to be herself on Malachor V (also a Dark Side world) at the Trayus Academy? She wasn't affected at all.

How could victory be pointless if she didn't give him/her all she could? It would be because he/she didn't earn it and for her that is cheapening the victory. If someone gets something that they haven't earned (be it victory, money or whatever) Kreia feels "it is like poring sand in their hands." Kreia would have killed the Exile it is stated by both Sion and Kreia and refusing to do otherwise would be against everything she believes in. When the Exile says that he is willing to sacrifice himself/herself for any of his friends including her, Traya states that she would rather die than allow the Exile to demean him self /herself. This again proves that Kreia wouldn't let the Exile win without giving everything she's got. For Kreia that is betrayal of the self. And as I have stated before Traya doesn't feel true kind of love. Or do you remember some moment in the game where Kreia is hitting on the Exile?! It was more like a metaphor because as Atris stated the Exile is the only thing that matters to Kreia (because of his unique ability to defy the will Force).

His skin isn't burnt it's full of cuts. If you can't see it than you should know Atton stated that he looks like he "sleeps with vibroblades". Why do you think the cuts are only skin deep? Do you know how deep they are? No you do not. Neither do I but I at least have something to fall back on. The medical officer's words for example I don't know why you keep ignoring them but when she says she doesn't know "what's even keeping him together" it definitely means something. Besides why is it that every time the Exile defeats him (both on Korriban and Malachor V) Sion's limbs are still on his body. You can say that applies to everyone in the game but they die, Sion doesn't.

Originally posted by the_satan32
There exactly is it stated that the boost is temporary? Nowhere the boost is permanent. That's why it is such a great power. You have not provided any evidence to support your statement while I and others such as xxXAcStylesXxx have provided plenty of evidence to support our points. Until you do I don't see why I or anyone else should trust your opinion on the Exile's power.

The Exile did slay Sion it's just that he keeps coming back. You keep claiming that the Exile was talking to Sion during their duel but there is no evidence supporting your claim. Truth is that they talked between duels. That has been shown in the game your opinion cannot override what has been shown and stated in the game. Unless someone breaks Sion's will he can't be killed. I'm sure Ulic Qel Droma could break his will but if he doesn't than he can't win. In fact if Sion's will was "unbreakable" than no one except Nihilus would have been able to kill him.

It's nice to see you confirm yet again that you have not paid attention to the game. Kreia didn't send the Exile to join Revan, she gave him/her a choice whether to stay on Malachor, return to exile or go search for Revan. She didn't know what the Exile would choose (evidenced by the DS and LS endings). Kreia "loved" the Exile because she saw in him/her that the will of the Force can be denied but not in the true sense of love. Malak does indeed state that Revan has become stronger but Kreia still knows his power (Revan's) quite well. Who would know Revan's power better his ex-apprentice or his Master ? Even if Revan has grown a bit stronger and Kreia only knows his level of power before his "rebirth" her's statement still confirms that the Exile is far beyond the overage Jedi/Sith. Oh and have actually seen Kreia cheer up someone in the entire game? Did she cheer up the Exile when he/she was choking in the Jek Jek Tarr? "Don't worry Exile you'll be just fine. I'll teach you a new Force power and you'll kick some alien ass." No I don't remember it that way. No Wait I remember! When he/she was facing Sion on Korriban she said "Don't worry Exile, you can do it! You can beat him! Just break his will!" No Wait that didn't happen either. Show me a moment where Kreia cheers the Exile or anyone else. However I am sure you can't because Kreia doesn't cheer anyone she manipulates people and usually by some cruel means (just like with Atton).

Easily affected by the Dark Side? Really? Or maybe she didn't want to face Sion. Because if she did he could have reveal her identity to the Exile. If she is so Easily affected by the DS then why did she continue to be herself on Malachor V (also a Dark Side world) at the Trayus Academy? She wasn't affected at all.

How could victory be pointless if she didn't give him/her all she could? It would be because he/she didn't earn it and for her that is cheapening the victory. If someone gets something that they haven't earned (be it victory, money or whatever) Kreia feels "it is like poring sand in their hands." Kreia would have killed the Exile it is stated by both Sion and Kreia and refusing to do otherwise would be against everything she believes in. When the Exile says that he is willing to sacrifice himself/herself for any of his friends including her, Traya states that she would rather die than allow the Exile to demean him self /herself. This again proves that Kreia wouldn't let the Exile win without giving everything she's got. For Kreia that is betrayal of the self. And as I have stated before Traya doesn't feel true kind of love. Or do you remember some moment in the game where Kreia is hitting on the Exile?! It was more like a metaphor because as Atris stated the Exile is the only thing that matters to Kreia (because of his unique ability to defy the will Force).

His skin isn't burnt it's full of cuts. If you can't see it than you should know Atton stated that he looks like he "sleeps with vibroblades". Why do you think the cuts are only skin deep? Do you know how deep they are? No you do not. Neither do I but I at least have something to fall back on. The medical officer's words for example I don't know why you keep ignoring them but when she says she doesn't know "what's even keeping him together" it definitely means something. Besides why is it that every time the Exile defeats him (both on Korriban and Malachor V) Sion's limbs are still on his body. You can say that applies to everyone in the game but they die, Sion doesn't. [/B]

Nai, don't expect a full response from me till Saturday night from me cause, I'll be out having a life.

Originally posted by xxXAcStylesXxx
Nai, don't expect a full response from me till Saturday night from me cause, I'll be out having a life.

I hope so, because you're making a fool out of yourself on the internet.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Are you kidding me? Neither you nor AC have shown any shred of proof in terms of the exile being above Average. You're right though, nobody trusts Nai's opinion on here, dumbass. And nowhere is it stated that the boost is permanent as well.

Yet again, the concept of gameplay mechanics eludes both you and AC. What do you mean there's no evidence supporting the claim that the Exile was talking to Sion. Of course there's evidence, that's the only way you can beat him is by talking him to death. It's funny how you guys use gameplay mechanics in one part to further your argument, and deny it in another part. Double standards are a ***** huh?

This crap doesn't warrant any kind of response except for "bullshit".

"
She didn't want to face Sion? The same Sion that still listens to her when the Exile is on Malachor V? Try again. It's more than obvious that she doesn't want to be affected by the dark side, which is why she doesn't get off on the ship on Korriban.

All of this nonsense is irrelevant to a 1 on 1 fight with Ulic.

Good lord, nowhere in your pointless rambling did you state or prove how the exile would have any chance against Ulic in a saber duel.

No shred of evidence!? I have to ask you something can you read?
I have provided plenty of evidence and I will write them again. If the Exile isn't above average then why does she/he defeat three Sith lords, end a civil war (Onderon), defeat waves of Dark Jedi and Sith troopers (again Onderon and Trayus Academy) and many others. Kreia states the the Exile is greater than any she has ever trained and even Mandalore admits that even their greatest warriors are no match for him/her.

I never said they don't talk I said they don't talk the way Borbarad speculated. They talk the way you see in the game in between duels.

"Bullshit" ? Of course you will say that. You are no debater when you don't have a response all you can do is insult. How old are you 10?

Of course she wouldn't want to face Sion. If she does he can reveal her identity as a Sith Lord and ruin her plans. And besides he is trying to kill her.

Of course is irrelevant in a fight against Ulic but I was debating with Borbarad who unlike you doesn't insult people when he is wrong and can't answer.

Just put him on ignore, like me and Lightsnake have done, I can guarantee you nothing he says is important enough to even view.

Originally posted by xxXAcStylesXxx
Just put him on ignore, like me and Lightsnake have done, I can guarantee you nothing he says is important enough to even view.

I see why you would do that. His arguments are ridicules and his insults further discredit him.

Originally posted by xxXAcStylesXxx
Just put him on ignore, like me and Lightsnake have done, I can guarantee you nothing he says is important enough to even view.

Speak for yourself, I don't see lightsnake having me on ignore. Don't be upset because you can't win a debate and lack any kind of common sense.

Originally posted by the_satan32
I see why you would do that. His arguments are ridicules and his insults further discredit him.

A. Ridiculous
B. For someone who thought that being either male or female for the Exile was the same thing, you sure like to talk. You've offered less facts and more bullshit than AC has thus far.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
A. Ridiculous
B. For someone who thought that being either male or female for the Exile was the same thing, you sure like to talk. You've offered less facts and more bullshit than AC has thus far.

1 English isn't the first language I've learnt so it's normal for me to make mistakes.
2 Bullshit ? Really? Can you show us some specific examples? At least I don't insult people when I'm losing a debate.

At least you acknowledge losing the debate, most poor debaters have a problem doing that and instead project their bullshit on the better debaters.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
At least you acknowledge losing the debate, most poor debaters have a problem doing that and instead project their bullshit on the better debaters.

I'm not losing. You are. I never said I'm losing this one.

Darth Sexy I want to ask you something, if you are such a good debater why do you either come up with some ridiculous and obviously wrong answers or you just call the other debater's posts bullshit and don't answer at all. Why do you insult people when they are debating with you? I'll tell you why it's because you are poor debater you said yourself that most poor debaters can't admit that they are wrong. Looks like you're right.

Originally posted by the_satan32
Where exactly is it stated that the boost is temporary? Nowhere the boost is permanent. That's why it is such a great power. You have not provided any evidence to support your statement while I and others such as xxXAcStylesXxx have provided plenty of evidence to support our points. Until you do I don't see why I or anyone else should trust your opinion on the Exile's power.

You did realize that Nihilus did have to travel through the Galaxy to find new people to still his hunger ? You did realize how the guy was weakened on the spot twice (by trying to drain the Exile and by having Visas acting against him) ? If the power he trained a Katarrh was something permanent he should have slaughtered the Exile, Mandalore and Visas no matter what. Yet apparently he was powerful but not as powerful as he should have been if he kept formally drained force energy constantly. And the Exile is technically the same so I don't see why it should work different for her.

The Exile did slay Sion it's just that he keeps coming back. You keep claiming that the Exile was talking to Sion during their duel but there is no evidence supporting your claim. Truth is that they talked between duels. That has been shown in the game your opinion cannot override what has been shown and stated in the game. Unless someone breaks Sion's will he can't be killed. I'm sure Ulic Qel Droma could break his will but if he doesn't than he can't win. In fact if Sion's will was "unbreakable" than no one except Nihilus would have been able to kill him.

Where shall I start ? First: I wasn't questioning the scene - I just said that given the normal happening in the SW universe it would be more logical that they talked while fighting (which can't be displayed the way the game was programmed). Second: For the sake of an argument it doesn't matter how often the Exile did beat Sion down. The actual question here would be: How powerful is Sion ? Is there anything special about this guy except for the fact that he managed to hold his body together by hatred ? And third: Since Sion relies on the force to stay alive everyone capable of performing a "Wall of Light" attack against him (meaning cutting him off from the force) would be capable of killing him on the spot.

It's nice to see you confirm yet again that you have not paid attention to the game. Kreia didn't send the Exile to join Revan, she gave him/her a choice whether to stay on Malachor, return to exile or go search for Revan.

Actually going back into Exile and staying on Malachor weren't real "choices" exactly. Not for a lightside Jedi.

Malak does indeed state that Revan has become stronger but Kreia still knows his power (Revan's) quite well. Who would know Revan's power better his ex-apprentice or his Master ? Even if Revan has grown a bit stronger and Kreia only knows his level of power before his "rebirth" her's statement still confirms that the Exile is far beyond the overage Jedi/Sith.

How the hell would Kreia know Revan's power quite well ? She said herself that she was one of his first masters (given that she was present when his potential awakened) but after that ? We know that Revan did study from many different masters. We know that he, while searching for the Star Forge for the first time, was just accompanied by Malak. So Kreia's knowledge of Revan's power must be limited to a point in time prior to the "destruction" of Malachor V. And that's actually a nice amount of time to learn stuff for somebody like Revan.

And aside of that, as far as I remember Kreia just says that the Exile is the "greatest" student she has ever trained and not "the most powerful". Nice difference.

Oh and have actually seen Kreia cheer up someone in the entire game? Did she cheer up the Exile when he/she was choking in the Jek Jek Tarr? "Don't worry Exile you'll be just fine. I'll teach you a new Force power and you'll kick some alien ass." No I don't remember it that way. No Wait I remember! When he/she was facing Sion on Korriban she said "Don't worry Exile, you can do it! You can beat him! Just break his will!" No Wait that didn't happen either. Show me a moment where Kreia cheers the Exile or anyone else. However I am sure you can't because Kreia doesn't cheer anyone she manipulates people and usually by some cruel means (just like with Atton).

Yeah. Kreia happens to be constantly near her own death during the entire game. Oh wait...

"Know that much may happen here, but above all, do not forget this—you may trust in me. We cradle each other's lives, and what threatens one of us, threatens us both. And if you find you cannot trust me, trust in your training. Trust in yourself. Never doubt what you have done. All your decisions have brought you to this point." (Kreia to the Exile just before the meeting with the masters in the Jedi Enclave)

Yeah. Indeed she's not cheering the Exile up before possible confrontations. Like telling the Exile that there is no strength beyond Nihilus hunger when the Exile things about a possible confrontation with him. Or the quote above before confronting the Jedi Masters. Of course she doesn't send the Exile on suicide missions like "Yeah. Go and try to slay the guy who can only be defeated via force techniques you don't know and manipulation you aren't capable of."

His skin isn't burnt it's full of cuts. If you can't see it than you should know Atton stated that he looks like he "sleeps with vibroblades". Why do you think the cuts are only skin deep?

Oh my. It's pretty clear that the cuts don't go through his bones so he would fall into pieces if it wasn't for his willpower.

[img]http://images.wikia.com/starwars/images/thumb/3/3a/Sionkorriban.jpg/374px-Sionkorriban.jpg[/quote]

Where do you see cuts that are going right through his body here in a mannor that would make him fall into pieces if it wasn't for his willpower ?

Do you know how deep they are? No you do not. Neither do I but I at least have something to fall back on. The medical officer's words for example I don't know why you keep ignoring them but when she says she doesn't know "what's even keeping him together" it definitely means something.

Yes. I do know since I can freaking see them on the picture above and I don't see why his arms should suddenly fall off. In turn what you keep ignoring is the fact that obviously some parts of his body are missing (the right side of his face, a bot of his chest) which pretty much speaks against you assertion that he would simply keep his body parts where they are in case one of them is completly cut off.

And the medical officer is referring to the quite huge amount of broken bones Sion has inside of his body. Yet since when does a body fall into pieces because of broken bones ? Do words like "skin" and "muscles" ring a bell ?

Besides why is it that every time the Exile defeats him (both on Korriban and Malachor V) Sion's limbs are still on his body. You can say that applies to everyone in the game but they die, Sion doesn't.

Yeah. Jedi are constantly in some sort of bloodlust which drives them to cut limbs off whenever they have a chance to do so. Really. If Sion would have been able to keep removed (or nastily injured) parts of his body working and at his body, I'd really like to have an explanation for the obvious blind right eye, his missing skin in the same area and so on.

And I still wonder where that discussion should actually lead to as still none of the Exiles opponents comes close to Exar Kun in actual confrontation. That won't change no matter how long we keep talking about Kreia, Sion or Nihilus.

Originally posted by the_satan32
Darth Sexy I want to ask you something, if you are such a good debater why do you either come up with some ridiculous and obviously wrong answers or you just call the other debater's posts bullshit and don't answer at all. Why do you insult people when they are debating with you? I'll tell you why it's because you are poor debater you said yourself that most poor debaters can't admit that they are wrong. Looks like you're right.

As I told AC, the poor debater's biggest friend is denial. You are not an authority on good debating or even logical debating since judging by your hilarious posts, you are an expert in neither. I suggest you sit back, take your medicine, and learn something, or embarass yourself like AC has been doing.

Originally posted by Borbarad
on.

And I still wonder where that discussion should actually lead to as still none of the Exiles opponents comes close to Exar Kun in actual confrontation. That won't change no matter how long we keep talking about Kreia, Sion or Nihilus.

That's where you're wrong, Nihilus was more powerful than Kun, he's uber.

I can't beleive you're making a case for Ulic based on stale mating a relatively green Jedi turned Sith, who at that point probably hadn't reached his peak (peak being he's power level at the end of his life).

Face it, there are Sith who's powers and knowledge have surpassed Kun, namely Nihilus (in power) and Traya (in knoweldge). I don't need an omniscient narrator to tell me that Kun had more knowledge than he knew what do with (in 6 months time)..., no shit. I mean he was encountering Sith knowledge that had taken Sadow almost a life time to learn.

Knowldege: Traya > Kun

Power: Nihilus > Kun
Let's not forget Sion who'd achieved nigh immortality in his physical body. Let's not forget that the Exile didn't just stale mate these Sith, he beat every one of them.

The Exile over Ulic.

Let me put Nihilus' power into perspective: outside of the Exile (the wound), Luke and Sidious, there's probably no one that can stand up to him in a one-on-one square off, that's how overwhelming his power is.

Originally posted by Borbarad
Want to argue against canon again ? Go and watch RotS. Watch the opening sequence. Anakin and Obi-Wan just before entering Grievous ship do destroy the shield that is in front of the hangar entrance. And the shield...obviously kept the air [b]inside the hangar as Anakin and Obi-Wan are both breathing their which should be possible in...a vacuum. And notice how the air didn't leave the hangar in the same moment the shield was destroyed. The same principle also works for the Death Star hangars in ANH and ROTJ where nothing but an energy shield is between the hangar bay and outer space.

So if you knew anything about ship tech in Star Wars, you would have noticed that shields actually do keep the air inside a room.

See above. Simply wrong.
[/B]

You don't know what the hell you're talking about.

I'll give you an example in ROTS. Remember when Grievous escaped by breaking one of the windows in the bridge, disrupting the internal atmosphere of the bridge? What did Obi and Anakin have to do? They had to close off and seal the windows with an emergency lock down to avoid getting sucked into the vacuum of space.

This destroys your completely illogical argument. The Ravager needed seals to keep the internal atmosphere normal yet somehow, it functioned without them, clealry Nihilus' influence. And as far as the hangar is concerned, it's filled with force fields not energy shields.

That whole rant on the structural intergrity of the Ravager was amusing. Have you forgotten hyperspace? A ship that beaten up has no place in hyperspace, where ships supposedly bypass dimentions (and you don't want what's outside the ship to get inside which would be disastrous), yet the Ravager was quite clearly capable of traveling through hyperspace.

Originally posted by Borbarad

You mean the same force drain that is an extend of his "hunger". The same thing that Kreia comments with "There is no power behind his hunger" ? Woah. Nihilus was beaten by an [b]average Jedi (quote of Vrook about the Exile) who was lucky enough to have some sort of resistance against the force drain. That's exactly how "powerful" he is.

[/B]

Why use the word luck? There's no real luck in fiction and the Jedi Exile is far from being an average Jedi. Your argument is weak because, "Average Jedi" in the context of Kotor 2 is very much meaningless. Maybe if the Exile had had average achievements, but that didn't happen in Kotor 2.

Originally posted by Borbarad

Name some.

Being able to learn techniques very quickly from observation, unpredictability, great strength in the force, enigmatic force connection, and like Ulic, skilled in battle (according to Malak and some of the Exile's masters).

Originally posted by Borbarad
Oh genious. You do notice that there are certain techniques that [b]every Jedi is capable of using while there are some which are restricted to person who learned corresponding force techniques. For example: Every force user can use telekinesis. Basic. Not every force user can use force lightning. Hence it's not a "basic" ability.
[/B]

That's beside the point, Nihilus "choked" Visas with the force, for all we know the technique may not be as "basic" as you assume. For instance, when Vader choked the officer while situated in an entirely different part of the ship. Now, it might be assumed that choke is just an aggressive form of TK, but for Vader to create a connection through the force, along the many corridors and contours of a large star destroyer seems pretty complex. This was an irrelevant argument anyway.

Originally posted by Borbarad

Yet Kun did utterly destroy people who, following your own definition, should have been leagues above Kreia in terms of knowledge and power. And while having no access to the force any longer he was capable of fending off an enraged Jedi for minutes in a lightsaber duel. Rather interesting because [b]nobody else with the exception of Grievous, has pulled something like this off before or after.

Compared to that the Exile did what exactly ? Killing people that were previously weakened ? Yeah. Great. [/B]

Not at all, Kreia was an unconventional Jedi, she studied both the dark side and the light with equal vigor, Odan and Vodo were very much Jedi in the conventional mode, so no they were not as powerful in the force as Kreia.

The Exile's accomplishments easily trample over Ulic's, so don't even bother going there.

I thought the Exile generally wasn't used in vs. threads because she was an unknown?