Jedi Exile vs Ulic Qel Droma

Started by Darth Sexy21 pages

Originally posted by Allankles
Any you do? Your arguments have been refuted with sound reason time and again in this one thread yet your still here repeating the same crap that was defeated on page 1.

My arguments have never been refuted in this thread, contrary to your denial. If anything, my arguments have been strengthened and backed up by others, but thanks for living in reality.

1)The Exile is average (Darthsaxy) - based on an old recording of Vrook on dantooine talking about the Exile as a PADAWAN.

And we've proven that the exile IS indeed average with a few special techniques.

Yet before tha Mando wars the Jedi masters said he was skilled in battle; and during the very same war the Mando's feared her.

For the millionth time, the Exile is a SHE. Now, define skill, and tell me how it's applicable to being a powerful force user and/or saber combatant, or if they automatically have any correlation.

And yet again, during Kotor she achieves feats that no average Jedi would accomplish. I've said it many times that "average" in reference to the Exile in Kotor 2, is meaningless. Yet you'll continue to argue with little reason as to why the opposite is true.

Like what, being a wound? Having a force bond? Good lord tool, you're using the typical "I'm right everyone else is wrong although my argument has been pwned" denial.

2) She lucked out being a wound (darthsaxy) - we're talking about fiction, every one lucks out.

Yet another absolutely stupid thing to say. Stop getting technical because doing it wrong makes you look stupid.

3) Nihilus isn't powerful he just has the force drain (darthsaxy) - the force drain makes him uber powerful genius.

No, the force drain makes him powerful, the fact that he has nothing special other than that technique and that anyone who can loop out of the force have a guaranteed victory over him, makes him mediocre with a special technique.

4) Irrelevant arguments about hull breaches in ships.

Translation: My points have been defeated but I'll make myself feel better by calling his arguments irrelevant.

5) Ulic's supposed superiority based on standing up to Kun in a duel that got interrupted by Ragnos. This is so inconclusive. He never showed himself to be anything more than a skilled combatant, which is the least you'd expect him to be considering he was supposed to be a great Jedi in his time. Let's not forget that Kun had just began growing into his role as Sith at the time.

Yes, a skilled combatant who beat Mandalore.. And this is what again? Oh that's right, a 1 on 1 match, where Ulic can use his "skilled combatant" abilities to destroy the exile.

By contrast the Exile killed an uber Sith, a physically immortal Sith, and one of the greatest force users of Kotor, in Kreia. [/B]

Lets see.. Assumption that Nihilus was uber, that Kreia was one of the greatest force users, that the Exile did it alone, etc. There's so much stupidity here it's not worth pointing out. Anyways, she defeated a someone powerful force user with the help of 2 other people, talked Sion to death, and defeated Kreia, who didn't want to fully kill her or go all out. Wonderful argument!

Originally posted by xxXAcStylesXxx
Great, and what you still don't get is your talking about a PADAWAN, and as said your obviously wrong, as Malak himself seems to think the Exile is pretty damn skilled, she was skilled to the point that she was as Kreia says, feared by the Mandalorians, whom as you seem to agree where at the strongest they'd ever been, That was confirmed don't argue against it.

No. What you don't get is that I'm talking about talent which doesn't grow over time so that "You're talking about a Padawan crap" is meaningless. You can just be what you are. And the Exile had no special talents - she was average. It doesn't matter what she experienced later on...that thing simply won't change.

And for the Kreia saying the Mandalorians feared her and Malak considering her a threat, please give me some quotes. Either proof up or shut up.


Again, had you been right about the average crap, you'd have a point, but as seen through in countless examples in Star Wars, war and conflict brings out the best in Jedi, serving to make them more powerful, what did the Exile face? Three years of one of the most bloody wars in galactic history against opponents as the KOTOR games note that one Mandalorian was equal to 10 Republic soldiers. Not to mention these same warriors had fear and respect for the Exile, so really your "she's average." argument is pretty damn bull shit.

Lmfao. In case you didn't notice it. Ulic did spent four years of his live fighting in the Great Sith War. He started with fighting Beast Riders, than the Dark Siders on Onderon (Amanoa, Ommin and followers like Warb Null), then the Krath in the Emperess Teta system (droids, warriors and Satal Keto), then Kun, then Mandalore. And he did already start off as extraordinary gifted student of the force and pretty skilled duellist due to the fact that his entire family tree is filled with Jedi Knights.

Now in that days he:
- tooled Warb Null (guy in magical Sith armor possessed by an ancient Sith spirit)
- killed King Ommin (technically) who managed to floor an entire group of Jedi with a single force attack and managed to hold Arca as prisoner using his Dark Side powers
- slaughtered Satal Keto
- stalemated Exar Kun
- defeated Mandalore

And the Jedi Exile did participate in the war how exactly ? Oh yes. As general which such great skill that the Battle of Dagary Minor under the command of the Jedi Exile which was viewed as "debacle" in later decades. There's nothing said about the actualy combat activities of the Exile in the Mandalorian War aside of that.


Oh My, really of the marker with that one, the point was: you going off on how uber Ulic is simply because he wasn't called average as a padawan, which you pointed out gave him more "possibilities." The Exile however due to her bonding nature is not limited by her current status and there are no caps for her power, and she doesn't have to befriend people for the bond to be made all thats needed is an extended period of time being around her. That was the point.

No. The point that I was talking about is TALENT. You can't learn to be talented, neither through force bonds or force draining abilities. That might give you an (unknown) amount of raw force power but your talent determines with what degree of efficiency. And the only thing to counter talent is a) superior knowledge or b) superior control. Again I can side Anakin as example for both. He was extremely talented and also had the highest amount of raw force power in the PT era. Yet because Dooku had superior knowledge, he was capable of defeating him (AotC) and because Obi-Wan had superior control he was able to stalemate him in direct force contest and then defeat him in the lightsaber fight (RotS).

Now the Exile (via force bonds or draining opponents) might have a greater amount of raw force power than Ulic (and even that would be debateable) but she clearly doesn't have his knowledge, his control or his talent


Oh My, The Exile has her own reasons for as to why she followed Revans orders (they are in affect "your" reasons for as to whys he followed Revan) however you seem to have missed to fact that she was the ONLY person to disobey Revan and NOT follow him to the outer rim. And I've already dealt with the "average" crap.

That "reason" was that she completely lost her force connection in the destruction of Malachor V in case you didn't notice that. And you dealt with the "average crap" ? That's nice since you aren't capable of even understanding it.


Because its IMPOSSIBLE to due so. Nice Job.

Oh right. Nihilus in the cut content is simply whiping the floor with Sion rather easily and Sion therefore leaves him alone. Kreia is keeping Sion as her personal pet later on. Yet the Exile has to talk him into death to get beyond him. I wonder why ?


Which flows into the point of:

"He was at his prime at the end of his life."

Yeah, that of one Sith Lord, Naga Sadow, the same knowledge Naad had, and isn't it when he takes the knowledge from Ossus that he is stated with having attained:

"More knowledge then he can ever use."

Thus my point, all his "Leet" events occur AFTER his duel with Ulic which lead us to believe that he was only increasing in power, and when he fought Ulic he was not at his full potential.

How stupid can somebody be ?
First Nadd did never have the entire knowledge of Sadow since it was protected by that nice wormthing Exar tooled using the amulet in case you didn't notice it.

Nice how you ignored the fact that Kun didn't archieve new knowledge after the duel with Ulic until the point where he plundered Ossus. That means he was capable of performing all his "leet feats" at the time of the duel already as he learned nothing new. He at that point in time says himself that he learned everything about the powers of the Sith. Now what does he use to perform his "leet feats" ? His Sith knowledge which he already had at the duel. The only exception here would be his new weapon and the corresponding style. Wow. His knowledge and his amount of power in terms of force control didn't change.

Thats also super, but when where any of the three before mentioned to be ANYTHING special in combat? Oh yeah, they weren't.

Yeah. Everybody is able to tool Massassi with bare hands and has enough physical strength to shatter a helmet...


And that was BEFORE his training on Malachor, which after that he has the skill to beat Jedi Masters (Vash).

Uhh...yeah. He can't be killed. Must be hard for somebody to overcome a Jedi Master in that condition. Aside from the fact that you don't have any idea how Sion actually captured her or killed her. For all you know he could have invaded the academy on Korriban with a nice amount of Sith Assassins and together with them killed Lonna Vash.


And going by Sidious outward appearance he looks like he gotten the shit beat out of him, and like he's hadn't slept for years (which he hasn't). I think you get the point.

With the difference that we exactly know why Sidious looks like he does, right ? Aside of the fact that I didn't see Sidious eye falling out or some nice parts of his skin falling off. And he definetly didn't break his own bones.


Thats nice ,and yet there is, and she does the same thing he does.

Urm. You did notice that this ability did consume Nihilus himself ? He did need persons to drain otherwise he would have died which is pretty apparent. Yet you're making it look as if he simply drains and archieves new power. Obviously not the case as that power seems to vanish again - hence his need to drain again. There really is no power beyond his hunger.


Because of extenuating circumstances.

Lmao. That's actually a weak excuse for an argument. Either Nihilus is too stupid to apply basic tactics in confrontation (focus on the Exile's team realizing he can't drain her) or he's not skilled enough to take them out of the battle. It's exactly like I said: If his force drain fails him, he's nothing special anymore.


I really don't care, just cause he's not the greatest tactical mind in no way takes away from his power.

And since the display of his power is limited to lifting a starship from a planet aside from his force drain, he must be god ? Wow. He can sucessfully use telekinesis and aside of that he can...err...yes. What is it that he can do exactly aside of that ? If that is the testament of his power one might say that Kyp Duron already surpassed him in the JA trilogy by lifting the Sun Crusher out of the massive gravitational field of the gas giant Yavin.


And that would amount to...oh yeah The Exile and Luke. Nice list long list of people isn't it!

As the defence is to minimize or hide the own force presence the list would actually more likely include every Sith from Bane's time on (they practiced the corresponding technique), almost the entire NJO (Falanassi abilities taught by Luke) and certain people like Tholme (capable of switching his connection to the force on and off at will) or Thon (who apparently managed resist the drain attack that killed Ambria). Now you can write that people in a list - would be damn long actually.

Originally posted by xxXAcStylesXxx
So wait she can't go all out because she's lost an ability? She can't want to KILL the Exile because she's lost an ability. Think about that for a second then get back to me.

What part of the "estimating you are right" was it you didn't get ? Assuming she wanted to kill the Exile she still had very limited capabilities to actually reach that goal.


Dxun filled with vicious creatures that even tore the Mandalore you nutting over apart. And as said visibly she performs at a master level.

Those creatures that aren't encountered in the game for unknown reason (possibly because an entire camp of Mandalorians is in that jungle to get rid of them ?). And wow. "She performs at a master level" really is a great argument.


Yeah at that point sure especially with her drain, but at the end of his life? f*ck no.

It's nice how you still didn't realize that Exar's knowledge about Dark Side abilities didn't increase from his duel with Ulic on.


And? He comments on her infiltration skills before she jumps into the fray, signaling that he knows she was there, if not, then if its that easy to sneak up and kill Dooku then why hadn't she already done it.

She still managed to get rather close and she still wasn't trained.


And that stopped him from passively using the force how? Unless your really expecting me to believe that Ulic who had just turned his back on his order, friends, master, and family is a man of his word. 😆

He obviously willfully deactivates his lightsaber and goes to fight Mandalore with a Mandalorian weapon after being taunted to fight unfair. I don't see why he should do that just to start and fight unfair again.


Great. Sith Magic obviously turns any scrub into a more powerful force user.

To the point where they can create illusions powerful enough to kill people ?


Vodo's actions speak MUCH louder then quotes. Lets start off with his biggest failure Exar Kun, instead of teaching Exar about how wrong the dark side is and what path he's moving down and how violence is wrong. What does he do? Trys to beat the shit out of him. Lets move on to Coruscant were he like a rtard only takes three Jedi with him to Ulic trial, 2 of them being losers (really was the entire Jedi order on vacation?). Then when Kun strolls in and he see's him freeze over a thousand people on a whim and announce he's a Sith Lord, he proceeds to take him on individually LOL , and with a f*cking stick. Let me spell this out for you: he tried to fight a Sith Lord with a STICK.

He's a dipshit.

Lmao. You did notice that Vodo didn't "take" any Jedi with him to Ulic's trial instead he arrives after Kun ? And you're talking about the same stick that was said to be more powerful than a lightsaber ? Go figure, idiot.


So wait the Jedi have to be angry now for it to be valid? 🙄

Giving into the anger does obviously boost a Jedi's fighting ability if only over a short time. Seen when Anakin beats Dooku and when Luke beats Vader. Want to argue that ? And Sylvar was damn strong.


Oh My, other then Kreia is dead wrong: Boba Fett being Mandalore proves that wrong right away. That speaks for every Mandalorians individual skill how?

Let's see. They went from being capable to take on Revan and his Jedi even to points where they were able to defeat Jedi on open field to being absolutely slaughtered by Jedi on Galindraan. And Jango ? Did you watch AotC ? He isn't able to overcome Obi-Wan despite the fact that Boba is even offering fire-support with the Slave I. And Boba himself was pretty much pwned by both Vader and Luke before and during the time of the OT. Obviously there skill did decline with their numbers. How should anything else be logical ?


So wait killing multiple Jedi with your bare hands (no gimmicks) is not as impressive as killing one relatively weak angry Jedi 🙄

Great. Did you actually have a look at the comic ? Jango defeats four Jedi exactly. The first one is attacked from behind, the second he assaults from the side kicking him to the chest. The third receives a stone into his face. And then Jango blinds the last one (throwing a hand full a snow into his face), dodges one saber swing of the blind (and surprised) guy and gives him a nice headbutt with his helmet right into the face. He did still have the element of surprise on his side as they obviously did either not even thought he might attack them or at least not successfully as he was not holding a weapon.


Zhar: We normally don't accept adults for training but you are a special case.

Vrook: its hard enough to mold the mind of an child and even harder in an adult.

Bastila: Maybe if you were younger... (Revan obviously being in his early twenties at the time)

Yeah. F*cking funny indeed as they are talking (and telling outright lies) to Revan as they do exactly know who he is. Seems to be more a test of persistance as Yoda does the same to Luke in ESB despite knowing that he has to train him at any cost. Same the masters did know about Revan as he was the only one able to stop Malak.


She was still a girl as she says when she started her Jedi training.

Ah well. She said that the second battle of Taris was that made her want to become a Jedi. That happened in 3,961 BBY and KotoR was set to 3,956 BBY. That means she can't have been at the academy for more than 5 years logically. Now she appears to be in her early 20s during KotoR meaning she joined the order when she around 15. I wouldn't call that a "kid" exactly. And child is also not the same as "baby" (which would be the description for people starting training in the PT era). Aside of that: Going by this obversation Revan must have been older than "in his early 20s" anyway.


Yes it does.

How ? Training time doesn't matter much when it comes to force users in the SW universe as you must very well know because of the blatant obvious evidence displayed for that in almost all SW comics, books and games. The prodigy always comes out as winner - Kun, Revan, Anakin, Luke, Kyle Katarn. It's pretty obvious unless they are put up against people that have qualities I sited above. Yet the Exile doesn't have said qualities, while Ulic is a prodigy who is also equipped with said qualities.

Conclusion: The Exile would die in a fight with Ulic.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
My arguments have never been refuted in this thread, contrary to your denial. If anything, my arguments have been strengthened and backed up by others, but thanks for living in reality.

You wouldn't know if someone refuted your arguments, too narrow minded. But sure I'm in denial, denying any assertion that you've won a single argument in this thread.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy

And we've proven that the exile IS indeed average with a few special techniques. .

Great work at disproving:-

Saving the galaxy and the republic from there powerful Sith. Ending a planetary civil war. Dismantling one of the biggest crime rings in the galaxy on Nar Shadda. Ending a mercenary incursion on colony world. Enabling the restoration of many war torn worlds and thereby preserving the Republic's rebuilding efforts.

Basically single handedly changing the fate of the galaxy and the republic and kick starting a new legacy of Jedi that would live on until the golden era of the PT period.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy

Now, define skill, and tell me how it's applicable to being a powerful force user and/or saber combatant, or if they automatically have any correlation.

Define skill?! For your benefit?! It basically means the Exile was skillful in battle. Do you need a dictionary definition, genius.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy

Like what, being a wound? Having a force bond? Good lord tool, you're using the typical "I'm right everyone else is wrong although my argument has been pwned" denial.

Yep! Like becoming increasingly more powerful through these abilities, now you're starting to get it.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy

Yet another absolutely stupid thing to say. Stop getting technical because doing it wrong makes you look stupid.

Hardly, considering that "lucking out" was supposed to be your idea of evidence that the Exile wasn't anything special, it's wise for me to point out (to the dumbasses out there) that lucking out doesn't exist in fiction. Otherwise, every character lucks out.

Your lack of logic is outstanding.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy

No, the force drain makes him powerful, the fact that he has nothing special other than that technique and that anyone who can loop out of the force have a guaranteed victory over him, makes him mediocre with a special technique.

Who says that anyone who can loop out of the force has guaranteed victory over him? I wasn't aware that being mortally vulnerable was a unique weakness to Nihilus. Even if you can loop out the force, you still have to contend with Nihilus lightsaber and his use of other force techniques besides drain. There's no guarantees, you simply get a chance at surviving more than a moment.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy

Translation: My points have been defeated but I'll make myself feel better by calling his arguments irrelevant.

You didn't even contribute to the hull debate. So what the hell are you talking about. The only thing I can expect from you is that your post's are legible, anything beyond that is asking for too much, it seems.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy

Yes, a skilled combatant who beat Mandalore.. And this is what again? Oh that's right, a 1 on 1 match, where Ulic can use his "skilled combatant" abilities to destroy the exile.

Wow! Kreia > Mandalore. Nihilus > Mandalore. Atris > Mandalore. Sion > Mandalore. Your arguments are laughable, stick with the Kun argument, at least it has more merit.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Lets see.. Assumption that Nihilus was uber, that Kreia was one of the greatest force users, that the Exile did it alone, etc. There's so much stupidity here it's not worth pointing out. Anyways, she defeated a someone powerful force user with the help of 2 other people, talked Sion to death, and defeated Kreia, who didn't want to fully kill her or go all out. Wonderful argument!

Let's see. Killing an entire planet is not uber now? What assumptions, dummy? The Exile defeated Kreia and Sion alone. The Exile didn't just talk to Sion, he engaged him in combat, at least three times in their last duel. Kreia never indicates that she didn't go all out. She pretty much tells the Exile that she'll die if she doesn't give Kreia a fight.

Laughable arguments honey, but I give you a gold star for persistence.

Originally posted by Borbarad

How ? Training time doesn't matter much when it comes to force users in the SW universe as you must very well know because of the blatant obvious evidence displayed for that in almost all SW comics, books and games. The prodigy always comes out as winner - Kun, Revan, Anakin, Luke, Kyle Katarn. It's pretty obvious unless they are put up against people that have qualities I sited above. Yet the Exile doesn't have said qualities, while Ulic is a prodigy who is also equipped with said qualities.

Conclusion: The Exile would die in a fight with Ulic.

How? A few unique examples, and training time doesn't matter? Kun was powerful let's not assume he was anything more than that i.e. uber like a Nihilus. Luke becomes more powerful given more you know... training time. As does Vader and Yoda and Mace Windu, Oppo Rancis, I could go on and on.

The prodigy also gets pwned if they get overzealous against a well trained and long trained opponent. Dooku v Anakin, Anakin V Obi, Luke v Sidious in ROTJ, Luke V Nightsister leader etc etc. Talent isn't all there is, there's will, training, and intelligence.

Also, the Exile has done more than many Jedi including Ulic, plus she possesses abilities that make her grow in power at a startling rate.The Exile was very much a prodigy of the force, first denying it's will by becoming the only Jedi of the Mando wars to turn from war, then by continually growing in power with every kill, with everyone she came into contact with. She was most certainly a wonder, a prodigy of the force.

And before you begin slamming me over the use of the word prodigy, maybe you should check up on the meaning of the word.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
And we've proven that the exile IS indeed average with a few special techniques.

After becoming a Wound in the Force and getting all that advanced training from several Jedi Masters including Kriea, Exile was no longer an average Jedi. She proved herself more then enough by defeating 3 unstoppable Sith Lords and ending the Sith Triumvirate.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
For the millionth time, the Exile is a SHE. Now, define skill, and tell me how it's applicable to being a powerful force user and/or saber combatant, or if they automatically have any correlation.

One meaning of word skill is "proficiency". Exile's proficiency in Saber Combat and Force was great by the end of KOTOR II.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
No, the force drain makes him powerful, the fact that he has nothing special other than that technique and that anyone who can loop out of the force have a guaranteed victory over him, makes him mediocre with a special technique.

And how can anybody loop out of the Force? I asked this very same question in my "Fallanassi" thread and no one gave a proper reply?

And any action that Nihilus did, it was extreme in intensity. He is among the most powerful Force-users in Star Wars history.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Yes, a skilled combatant who beat Mandalore.. And this is what again? Oh that's right, a 1 on 1 match, where Ulic can use his "skilled combatant" abilities to destroy the exile.

And how do you know this? Exile is no push-over in Combat.

And so what if Ulic defeated Mandalore in a 1 vs 1 match? Exile defeated a far more powerful combatant or enemy in a 1 vs 1 match in the end of KOTOR II.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Anyways, she defeated a someone powerful force user with the help of 2 other people

Visas and Mandalore got incapacitated by Nihilus. Exile actually scored victory over Nihilus.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
talked Sion to death

Fought against him as well.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
defeated Kreia, who didn't want to fully kill her or go all out. Wonderful argument!

And that's why she pulled out 3 Light Sabers to ensure that Exile would fail to break through her defenses and fall?

She was a Dark Lord and held the title of "Lord of Betrayal" for a reason. She did had a soft spot for Exile but that did not stopped her from attacking Exile in the end.

Hey Nai, ever heard of the term 'late bloomer?' Really, you're basing everything off of the preliminary thoughts of someone who openly admits to finding it difficult to judge the talent of those who are young (Vandar, in the KotOR comics) and someone who openly disliked The Exile (Vrook, I think AC already provided the quote), who are hardly 100% reliable in this instance, and you're ignoring the possibility that the Exile may have discovered her talent a bit later on.

Uic beats the hell out of the Exile. Why can't people understand Sexy's damn point??

Bcos he's too dumb to debate.

Originally posted by Apollo Cloud
Bcos he's [b]too dumb to debate. [/B]

Nebaris, were you even ever here to witness the days of Tdtd/Janus/Illustrious/Faunus/IKC/Old-Nai?

Of course not, I registered on January 21st, silly one.

Originally posted by Apollo Cloud
Of course not, I registered on January 21st, silly one.

No, you registered on KMC long before January 21st. Not that it matters, anyways, Nebaris, 'cuz no one cares that you sock. We're on good terms anyways.

Anyways, experiencing the old days is a lot different from reading it. If DS is Tdtd, he's just as bad as you are, for not admitting he socked. But it doesn't matter. If he is Tdtd, his old theories got WTFpwnt. DS is a bit ruthless, but he's a cool guy. Same goes for you.

Originally posted by Apollo Cloud
Bcos he's [b]too dumb to debate. [/B]

Uh, no. Then explain me why I did understood his point.

I'm going to agree with Nai here, the Exile dies against Ulic.

No. What you don't get is that I'm talking about talent which doesn't grow over time so that "You're talking about a Padawan crap" is meaningless. You can just be what you are. And the Exile had no special talents - she was average. It doesn't matter what she experienced later on...that thing simply won't change.

Really, your talking about a padawan who could be at the time 12 or 13 years old, she could be a late bloomer to the force, look at Ben Skywalker who distanced himself mentally from the force, the same could apply here, or even Scout.

And really this average padawan goes on to become a Jedi Knight (and the normies don't get knighted as Zayne Carrick can atest to) then proceeds to go off in the Mando Wars, and is feared by the people your nutting your pants over. But yeah she's average. 🙄

And for the Kreia saying the Mandalorians feared her and Malak considering her a threat, please give me some quotes. Either proof up or shut up.

Kreia: Ah yes, the Mandalorians were right to fear you.

She says this when you talk about skills

HK's I don't have the exact quote for.

Lmfao. In case you didn't notice it. Ulic did spent four years of his live fighting in the Great Sith War. He started with fighting Beast Riders, than the Dark Siders on Onderon (Amanoa, Ommin and followers like Warb Null), then the Krath in the Emperess Teta system (droids, warriors and Satal Keto), then Kun, then Mandalore. And he did already start off as extraordinary gifted student of the force and pretty skilled duellist due to the fact that his entire family tree is filled with Jedi Knights.

And how does any of that compare to the Mando Wars in which one battle was enough to break some Jedi (Dxun)

And the Jedi Exile did participate in the war how exactly ? Oh yes. As general which such great skill that the Battle of Dagary Minor under the command of the Jedi Exile which was viewed as "debacle" in later decades. There's nothing said about the actualy combat activities of the Exile in the Mandalorian War aside of that.

Your judging her based off one event? Nice. Other then she was noted as feared among the Mando's, was Revans lead general of the entire fleet of Malachor, and was a you know " General " all of this implies she spent heavy time on the front lines.

Now the Exile (via force bonds or draining opponents) might have a greater amount of raw force power than Ulic (and even that would be debateable) but she clearly doesn't have his knowledge, his control or his talent

While raw talent I agree with, Knowledge and control, no.

Knowledge:

They both had the same amount of access as Jedi to the knowledge about the light side and I for one can't see Ulic who is combat heavy, and a natrual at everything sitting down to study. Why would he as it comes to him as second nature. As a Sith he had the few scraps from the Karath, but that amounts to what now? The Exile however has Kreia who was a historian for many years and new both the Jedi and Sith more in depth then Ulic as his personal teacher.

Control:

You mean the control Ulic exhibited when didn't turn his back on his family, order, friends, master and woman, or you mean when he didn't kill his brother, or when he didn't disobey Kun and got his ass handed to him because of it. Really now.

Oh right. Nihilus in the cut content is simply whiping the floor with Sion rather easily and Sion therefore leaves him alone.

Great and you'll notice he didn't die, and that its CUT CONTENT. By this logic Kreia has a wide array of force powers and can apply them to such a magnitude that she can own all the Exiles allies at the same time. But oh wait thats all stuff that was CUT.

Kreia is keeping Sion as her personal pet later on.

Because she too can break him mentally.

Yet the Exile has to talk him into death to get beyond him. I wonder why ?

You do "get" where talking about physical combat?

Nice how you ignored the fact that Kun didn't archieve new knowledge after the duel with Ulic until the point where he plundered Ossus. That means he was capable of performing all his "leet feats" at the time of the duel already as he learned nothing new. He at that point in time says himself that he learned everything about the powers of the Sith. Now what does he use to perform his "leet feats" ? His Sith knowledge which he already had at the duel. The only exception here would be his new weapon and the corresponding style. Wow. His knowledge and his amount of power in terms of force control didn't change.

So wait, let me get this straight...Ulic who wasn't able to correct me if I'm wrong combat the force attack of Nomi and Vodo is all of a sudden on the level of a guy whom toyed with Vodo, murked the Jedi Master who taught Nomi her little trick with one force attack and shrugged of the Wall of Light like it was a joke. Regardless of Kuns dark side knowledge at the time when he dueled Ulic he:

A. Didn't bother to use any of it.

B. Engaged him with a saber

C. Attains even MORE knowledge at the end of his life.

Thus the conclusion is: Kun was at his best AT the END of his life.

Yeah. Everybody is able to tool Massassi with bare hands and has enough physical strength to shatter a helmet...

Um who else trys to take on Massassi like that, and you'll notice how Kun tools her as a padawan then tosses her aside then doesn't even bother with her on Ossus. Yeah tough chick right there!

Uhh...yeah. He can't be killed. Must be hard for somebody to overcome a Jedi Master in that condition. Aside from the fact that you don't have any idea how Sion actually captured her or killed her. For all you know he could have invaded the academy on Korriban with a nice amount of Sith Assassins and together with them killed Lonna Vash.

Other then she comments on how he overwhelmed her and how strong he was...

With the difference that we exactly know why Sidious looks like he does, right ? Aside of the fact that I didn't see Sidious eye falling out or some nice parts of his skin falling off. And he definetly didn't break his own bones.

And your guess is as good as min in this situation they could have easily been inflicted by Traya while training him in the art of pain.

Urm. You did notice that this ability did consume Nihilus himself ? He did need persons to drain otherwise he would have died which is pretty apparent. Yet you're making it look as if he simply drains and archieves new power. Obviously not the case as that power seems to vanish again - hence his need to drain again. There really is no power beyond his hunger.

And again, even when he is starving he retains his drain thus if your try to f*ck with him while he's starving he'll still be able to murk you. Get it?

[

Lmao. That's actually a weak excuse for an argument. Either Nihilus is too stupid to apply basic tactics in confrontation (focus on the Exile's team realizing he can't drain her) or he's not skilled enough to take them out of the battle. It's exactly like I said: If his force drain fails him, he's nothing special anymore.

And when will his drain fail him? Oh yeah against people who can completely become an absence presence in the force. Which is NOT Ulic.

And since the display of his power is limited to lifting a starship from a planet aside from his force drain, he must be god ? Wow. He can sucessfully use telekinesis and aside of that he can...err...yes. What is it that he can do exactly aside of that ? If that is the testament of his power one might say that Kyp Duron already surpassed him in the JA trilogy by lifting the Sun Crusher out of the massive gravitational field of the gas giant Yavin.

IRRELEVANT.

The force drain is the only power he needs as only a select few can resist it.

As the defence is to minimize or hide the own force presence

No the defense is to have no force presence to feed on. And upon further inspection the Immersion power it says according to Wookie that it can be pierced upon scrutiny. Now considering Nihlius's drain rips pretty much any living thing with even a hint of the force in it (It ripped the force from grass...) and he has the control for that colossus of power to NOT kill one select person further proves that he could pierce it. So pretty much unless your Luke using that tech (I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt) your dead.

Tholme (capable of switching his connection to the force on and off at will)

If he can make himself a dead spot in the force then yes.

or Thon (who apparently managed resist the drain attack that killed Ambria). Now you can write that people in a list - would be damn long actually.

Not really, any proof it was the same thing? And no its a VERY short list.

What part of the "estimating you are right" was it you didn't get ? Assuming she wanted to kill the Exile she still had very limited capabilities to actually reach that goal.

Well I am right as your logic contradict the character, and moreover as I said: It still does stop her intent to kill. And her trying her hardest to do it.

Those creatures that aren't encountered in the game for unknown reason (possibly because an entire camp of Mandalorians is in that jungle to get rid of them ?).

Except for the Mandalorians specifically say that they don't venture out far into the jungle, hence why they had no clue of the Sith presence on the moon.

And wow. "She performs at a master level" really is a great argument.

Yup, I know!

It's nice how you still didn't realize that Exar's knowledge about Dark Side abilities didn't increase from his duel with Ulic on.

Except they visibly do, as he visibly gets stronger, as he goes from stalemating Ulic, having his former master being a match for him to toying with Vodo, creating new styles, pwing masters with a flick of his hand, shrugging off the most powerful lightside technique.

She still managed to get rather close and she still wasn't trained.

Except she clearly was, and she was taught by a Jedi before he died. And again Dooku was aware it was her.

He obviously willfully deactivates his lightsaber and goes to fight Mandalore with a Mandalorian weapon after being taunted to fight unfair. I don't see why he should do that just to start and fight unfair again.

Sorry I still don't see how that excludes passive use of the force, being as though he's smaller physically then Mandalore and still manages to overwhelm him, and again taking account that its second nature to him and that it is ULIC were talking about. I wouldn't put it past him.

To the point where they can create illusions powerful enough to kill people ?

Obviously, which sadly completely shits on Naga Sadows feats.

Lmao. You did notice that Vodo didn't "take" any Jedi with him to Ulic's trial instead he arrives after Kun?

And? You refuted one thing in a cluster f*ck of incompetence.

And you're talking about the same stick that was said to be more powerful than a lightsaber ?

That was easily broken by Kun, would that have happened to a lightsaber? No, go figure, idiot.

Giving into the anger does obviously boost a Jedi's fighting ability if only over a short time. Seen when Anakin beats Dooku and when Luke beats Vader. Want to argue that ? And Sylvar was damn strong.

A huh. Taking on Multiple Jedi with bare hands > taking on one throwing a tissy fit.

Let's see. They went from being capable to take on Revan and his Jedi even to points where they were able to defeat Jedi on open field to being absolutely slaughtered by Jedi on Galindraan. And Jango ? Did you watch AotC ? He isn't able to overcome Obi-Wan despite the fact that Boba is even offering fire-support with the Slave I. And Boba himself was pretty much pwned by both Vader and Luke before and during the time of the OT. Obviously there skill did decline with their numbers. How should anything else be logical?

I haven't watched AOTC in a while so I won't comment on it, and wasn't he trying to run and not fight? And Vader and Luke would have beaten Mandalore too. Whats your point?

Great. Did you actually have a look at the comic ? Jango defeats four Jedi exactly. The first one is attacked from behind, the second he assaults from the side kicking him to the chest. The third receives a stone into his face. And then Jango blinds the last one (throwing a hand full a snow into his face), dodges one saber swing of the blind (and surprised) guy and gives him a nice headbutt with his helmet right into the face. He did still have the element of surprise on his side as they obviously did either not even thought he might attack them or at least not successfully as he was not holding a weapon.

And that > running from one Jedi throwing a tantrum, and really the element of surprise was lost once he started attacking.

Yeah. F*cking funny indeed as they are talking (and telling outright lies) to Revan as they do exactly know who he is. Seems to be more a test of persistance as Yoda does the same to Luke in ESB despite knowing that he has to train him at any cost. Same the masters did know about Revan as he was the only one able to stop Malak.

Well other then the fact Carth too knows that Jedi don't accept adults for training, he notes that its extremely strange, and really why the hell would they lie as they openly tell him BEFORE they talk about the age requirements that he will be accepted for training.

Ah well. She said that the second battle of Taris was that made her want to become a Jedi. That happened in 3,961 BBY and KotoR was set to 3,956 BBY. That means she can't have been at the academy for more than 5 years logically. Now she appears to be in her early 20s during KotoR meaning she joined the order when she around 15. I wouldn't call that a "kid" exactly. And child is also not the same as "baby" (which would be the description for people starting training in the PT era).

No, She fled Cathar in 3974 which she says she was still a baby, in 3961 apparently she joins the order after being freed by Revan, that would make her 13, still isn't an adult mind, still an adolescent and were not taking into account the Cathar probably don't have the same ageing rates as humans. Give a take a year she's still a kid when she starts.

Aside of that: Going by this obversation Revan must have been older than "in his early 20s" anyway.

Not really. I make this assumption as Revan even during KOTOR was often noted to be young, implying he's in his early twenties and considering his status as child prodigy, it wouldn't be hard for him to be knighted at say the age of 18.

This is my last post for a few days.

Originally posted by Allankles
You wouldn't know if someone refuted your arguments, too narrow minded. But sure I'm in denial, denying any assertion that you've won a single argument in this thread.

Actually, I would know of someone refuted my argument. If you look at the Anakin vs. Kun post, I fully conceded my argument to Advent. You aren't half the debater I am, so not only do your arguments blow chunks, I don't even give you the time of day anymore.

reat work at disproving:-

Saving the galaxy and the republic from there powerful Sith. Ending a planetary civil war. Dismantling one of the biggest crime rings in the galaxy on Nar Shadda. Ending a mercenary incursion on colony world. Enabling the restoration of many war torn worlds and thereby preserving the Republic's rebuilding efforts.


Wow, please explain to me how feat wars make any difference, seeing as how they are absolutely irrelevant to a 1 on 1 combat.. Dumbass.

Basically single handedly changing the fate of the galaxy and the republic and kick starting a new legacy of Jedi that would live on until the golden era of the PT period.

No, what Revan did was single handidly, not the exile. Not that it matters, feat wars are irrelevant but I can see you're at the end of your rope.

Define skill?! For your benefit?! It basically means the Exile was skillful in battle. Do you need a dictionary definition, genius.

You do know that skill is relative when being compared to another person right?

Hardly, considering that "lucking out" was supposed to be your idea of evidence that the Exile wasn't anything special, it's wise for me to point out (to the dumbasses out there) that lucking out doesn't exist in fiction. Otherwise, every character lucks out.

You said the same thing about Revan, lucking out blah blah. You don't have a point.

Your lack of logic is outstanding.

Your incessant denial and extremely pathetic arguments are hilarious.

Who says that anyone who can loop out of the force has guaranteed victory over him? I wasn't aware that being mortally vulnerable was a unique weakness to Nihilus. Even if you can loop out the force, you still have to contend with Nihilus lightsaber and his use of other force techniques besides drain. There's no guarantees, you simply get a chance at surviving more than a moment.

Lets see, the exile is an example that should drive home my point, but obviously you're incapable of understanding simple concepts. COntend with Nihilus lightsaber? Oh because he was proficient with it? Or that's right, there is nothing special about his lightsaber skills nor is there anything mentioned. Nihilus' other techniques? Oh you mean the basic force techniques.. Good one.

You didn't even contribute to the hull debate. So what the hell are you talking about. The only thing I can expect from you is that your post's are legible, anything beyond that is asking for too much, it seems.

Considering I started the debate with AC and you butted in, I did contribute my share of the debate. Nai obviously topped it off and did better because he's a better debater with more SW knowledge.

Wow! Kreia > Mandalore. Nihilus > Mandalore. Atris > Mandalore. Sion > Mandalore. Your arguments are laughable, stick with the Kun argument, at least it has more merit.

This coming from the guy who still hasn't won an argument. If my arguments are laughable, what does that make yours?

Laughable arguments honey, but I give you a gold star for persistence. [/B]

Awww that's so cute, speaking of persistance, you've been wtfpwned for how many pages and you keep continuing. But please, repeat what I said back to me, it's funny.

Originally posted by Apollo Cloud
Of course not, I registered on January 21st, silly one.

This is funny, coming from the worst debater on this forum. The day you become a better debater than myself, or even in my league, is the day you can attempt to talk shit. However, I enjoy your nonsense because you're the only one on this planet who believes he makes any kind of sense whatsoever.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
After becoming a Wound in the Force and getting all that advanced training from several Jedi Masters including Kriea, Exile was no longer an average Jedi. She proved herself more then enough by defeating 3 unstoppable Sith Lords and ending the Sith Triumvirate.

Yet again, gameplay mechanics and canon facts elude you.

One meaning of word skill is "proficiency". Exile's proficiency in Saber Combat and Force was great by the end of KOTOR II.

That's nothing more than a baseless opinion which has been torn to shreds by Nai and myself.

And any action that Nihilus did, it was extreme in intensity. He is among the most powerful Force-users in Star Wars history.

No, he's a regular force user with one incredible technique/

And how do you know this? Exile is no push-over in Combat.

Sure

And that's why she pulled out 3 Light Sabers to ensure that Exile would fail to break through her defenses and fall?

Is that why she kept talking to the exile during the fight and told the exile the future?

She was a Dark Lord and held the title of "Lord of Betrayal" for a reason. She did had a soft spot for Exile but that did not stopped her from attacking Exile in the end. [/B]

Kreia was never a dark lord, wtf are you babbling about?

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
This is funny, coming from the worst debater on this forum. The day you become a better debater than myself, or even in my league, is the day you can attempt to talk shit. However, I enjoy your nonsense because you're the only one on this planet who believes he makes any kind of sense whatsoever.