Who is the Second Most Powerful Sith?

Originally posted by Nikkolas
I have the evidence, actually.

I've proven multiple things while you've proven nothing.

1) Nihilus was horribly weak when he fought the Exile thus already rendering any result of the battle inaccurate for assessing his power.
2) Even with this, Nihilus could have killed the Exile but chose to drain her instead.
3) Nihilus was FURTHER weakened by trying to drain the Exile but, even so and with THREE opponents attacking him, he was "too powerful."

I have proven everything I've said. All you do is resort to verbal attacks because you have nothing better.

I'm surprised you havent' been banned. [/B]

Originally posted by Apollo Cloud
Simply calling him a fallible source is great and all, but until you can prove that he'd either have a reason to be lying, or a reason to be misinformed, we just have to accept that what he's saying is the truth.

Good lord, I thought after being banned 6 times, you'd learn some common sense. Let's try this again Noobaris. Tobin IS a fallible 3rd party character because he knows nothing about Nihilus, nor is he a force sensitive or an authority on how Nihilus is supposedly holding the ship up. Common sense would tell you that if he was holding the ship up, it would have crumbled when he died. We HAVE evidence of sith using their will to hold stuff up, like Sidious did on the second death star. When Sidious died, his fleet went to hell, but suddenly Nihilus can hold a ship up by some mystical technique because fanboys want to believe it.

Yeah, and I thought after 4323 posts, you'd finally learn how to read.

Originally posted by Kadesh
*yawn* it came from tobin, in universe fallible source as you claimed. He was never there when he pulled his ship out while the loading screen stated he only pulled the ravager

Originally posted by Apollo Cloud
Simply calling him a fallible source is great and all, but until you can prove that he'd either have a reason to be lying, or a reason to be misinformed, we just have to accept that what he's saying is the truth.

What's that you see there Sexy? I'll answer for you: it's me replying to Kadesh questioning whether Nihilus pulled an entire fleet, or just the Ravager out of the gravity wells. Nothing about holding his entire ship together, so yet again, all that whining has achieved nothing. Good job buddy.

Originally posted by Nikkolas
Consciousness transferal, I guess. We don't know when or how he learned it.

Originally posted by Nikkolas

You talking about the one Ancient Sith who said Palpatine had become the greatest?

If not, I'd like to see the quote you're speaking about... It be useful to shoot down the Ancient Sith > all.

Originally posted by Nikkolas

Did he try?

Originally posted by Nikkolas

If his attack didn't even kill Vodo...then yes, Nihilus is still above it. The range of the technique hardly means anything.

Originally posted by Nikkolas

Who said he intended to kill her?

You made it quite clear that scene with Sion is non-canon.

So, give me the canon quote saying Nihilus intended to kill her.

Yes and I made it clear it wasn't canon....

Sion's quote proves nothing. Nihilus has no reason to assume he killed Traya when she was CLEARLY still alive after he threw her into the wall.

Originally posted by Nikkolas

Um...no you didn't?

Originally posted by Nikkolas

Fallible? Yes. Can you prove he's wrong? No. He says he did and there's nothing to contradict it so...he did.

Originally posted by Nikkolas

Quality over quantity as they say.

Nihilus has one attack that puts him above anyone with dozens of techniques.

Originally posted by Nikkolas

Prove she was off-guard? She's the one who is approaching him...while his back is turned. He turns around, raises a hand and stuns her. So...how is she off-guard again?

Originally posted by Nikkolas

I spend 70% of my time on this site going through old threads and topics. I enjoy the search engine and I've prettty much exhausted everything I can find in any character I have an interest in or need to know about.

I do plenty of homework.

Originally posted by Nikkolas

Huh? i have no faith in it? A man without faith in his argument would not give a damn. He would not defend it every step of the way as I have done. Prove it's right every step of the way as I have done.

Originally posted by Nikkolas

I'm giving Vader my #5 spot.

So not only does Nihilus have to constantly feed,

Because of his power.

No, you've proven absolutely nothing and your fanboyish arguments have been destroyed. I'm resorting to insults because I don't have the time nor patience to deal with stupid people.

The pot calling the kettle black Mr. "Nihilus drained Kreia though there's no evidence of it as neither the scene nor the dialogue classify it a drain and Kreia's lightsaber moved."

but he can't defeat anybody who's a wound in the force

I've already told you about you DS about your refusal to acknowledge facts wholly defeats your own purpose.

Nihilus could have beaten the Exile, as I showed on the last page. Now if you were to say "he can't drain anyone who is a wound in The Force" it be accurate. But he can defeat them.

and yet he can stand up to Kun or Revan.

He's stand up and smack them like bitches, then they'd sit down, yes.

Denial from a poor debater.

Well, thank you for the varification of the statement you responded to. I didn't really need it.

But I have proven everything I've said with quotes and evidence. unlike you.

If Rex banned for stupidity, you'd have been out weeks ago.

...are you like 2-years-old? Jesus Christ, grow up.

Tobin IS a fallible 3rd party character because he knows nothing about Nihilus, nor is he a force sensitive or an authority on how Nihilus is supposedly holding the ship up.

Tobin knows nothing about Nihilus?

He tells us most of what we know about Nihilus. And a lot of it is confirmed by Visas.

Common sense would tell you that if he was holding the ship up, it would have crumbled when he died.

Except that common sense doesn't tell us how he is holding the ship up and nothing in dialogue says it is a constant use of his power to keep the ship up.

We HAVE evidence of sith using their will to hold stuff up, like Sidious did on the second death star. When Sidious died, his fleet went to hell

That's vastly different. Palpatine was using (or one of his Grand Admirals was using) Battle Meditation. The fleet went to hell when they lost their coordination through this. It has nothing whatsoever in common with TK.

Well you yourself destroyed ancient sitt > all so why do i need to prove to you something you already defeated? And yes im talking about the sith who saluted palpatine, for what other reasons will they build a throne for vader there?

True enough.

Trying can be the first step to failure, Would it matter? mind tricks dont work on jedis as several sources proven

Well we can't just assume if he tried to mindrape her he would fail. It has no support unless the Exile has shown mental resistance feats?

Ironic you mentioned that, its pretty amazing to attack somebody lightyears away

Yes but, as you said of Nihilus keeping the Ravager's inhabitants alive, it's irrelevant as it has no use in a versus.

Can you prove that he is right? 1)He wasnt there when nihilus dragged his ship 2)The loading screen(out of universe) stated that nihilus only pulled his ship from the well 3) In-universe characters can be fallible

Tobin might not have been there but he's the main source of info on Nihilus...moreso than even Kreia. Most of what he says is supported by Visas who would know. In-universe characters can be fallible but aren't their quotes useable if they aren't contradicted?

It wouldnt matter if somebody strikes first with a technique that can kill, examples are amulet blasts, force crush, emerald lighting and deadly sight, Its a matter of chance sometimes

Emerald Lightning only ever killed non-Force Users with no defense... i fail to see how is is a real insta-kill until an actual Furce user is killed instantly by it.

You seem to lack alot of knowledge on vader it seems...

'cause I've never been a big Vader fan. I like Palpatine more.

Originally posted by Apollo Cloud
Yeah, and I thought after 4323 posts, you'd finally learn how to read.

What's that you see there Sexy? I'll answer for you: it's me replying to Kadesh questioning whether Nihilus pulled an entire fleet, or just the Ravager out of the gravity wells. Nothing about holding his entire ship together, so yet again, all that whining has achieved nothing. Good job buddy.

As the leader in posts overall, you still have no common sense whatsoever. And your question is stupid considering Nikkolas considers the ravager AS the entire fleet, so who's the one with the reading comprehension problems. Way to prove your stupidity yet again Noobaris..

Nikkolas, give it up.

What the hell? You make ZERO sense, I'm done with you.

And your question is stupid considering Nikkolas considers the ravager AS the entire fleet,

"He tore it from the mass shadows of Malachor, along with his fleet... that is a measure of his power."

Definition of "along"-
# with a forward motion; "we drove along admiring the view"; "the horse trotted along at a steady pace"; "the circus traveled on to the next city"; "move along"; "march on"
# in accompaniment or as a companion; "his little sister came along to the movies"; "I brought my camera along"; "working along with his father"
# to a more advanced state; "the work is moving along"; "well along in their research"; "hurrying their education along"; "getting along in years"
# in addition (usually followed by `with'😉; "we sent them food and some clothing went along in the package"; "along with the package came a bill"; "consider the advantages along with the disadvantages"
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&defl=en&q=define:along&sa=X&oi=glossary_definition&ct=title

So...what you just said makes no sense. I never once said Ravager is the "entire fleet." You said that and it's wrong.

so who's the one with the reading comprehension problems.

You. You're saying things I never said.

MARKA RAGNOS! KREIA EVEN SAID THAT HE WAS the Best saberist there was in his time

Originally posted by darthsith19
Who said that?

Nihilus did. I wouldn't think he's the second best, though.

Originally posted by MasterAshenVor
MARKA RAGNOS! KREIA EVEN SAID THAT HE WAS the Best saberist there was in his time

Also, how the Hell would she know?

People like to say that Nihilus is one of the “children” compared to the Ancient Sith, going by Kreia’s statements. But let’s look at two quotes from Kreia. One about the Ancientsa nd one about Nihilus.

"If you were to face an ancient Sith Lord in combat, you would learn that we are as children playing with toys compared to the prowess of the old Masters.”

"One cannot have power of that magnitude and still think and perceive the universe as we do."

So, we have her saying “we” twice. “We” are children compared to the Ancient Sith but “we” are also below Nihilus; his power so above “we” that he sees the universe differently.

This is actually a large interest of mine. They place an emphasis somewhat on how Nihilus sees things. It’s different from normal people as clearly stated by Traya and then further explained by Tobin. Ote this exchange.

Visas: I do not believe he knows his ship has been boarded. And if he did, he would not care. The extent of his power can not be put into words. And his perceptions have grown as well. To him...

Tobin: You are dust motes in a storm. A grain upon the beach and as insignificant as a body that orbits the graveyard of Malachor.

Canderous: If he’s so powerful, why hasn’t he stopped us, then?

Tobin: It is because he sees planets, stars...not people. To him, the planet below, the station with its teeming life, only that is massive enough to demand his attention.

So, can I ask someone...why would anyone put Revan above Nihilus? Nihilus has far more canon powers and abilities. Two of which put him above anythign Revan has done.

How does PoD put Revan above Nihilus? Does it say he was the strongest Sith of his time or something?

Originally posted by Apollo Cloud
What the hell? You make [b]ZERO sense, I'm done with you. [/B]

Boohoo, you're doing us a favor.

Originally posted by Nikkolas
People like to say that Nihilus is one of the “children” compared to the Ancient Sith, going by Kreia’s statements. But let’s look at two quotes from Kreia. One about the Ancientsa nd one about Nihilus.

"If you were to face an ancient Sith Lord in combat, you would learn that we are as children playing with toys compared to the prowess of the old Masters.”

"One cannot have power of that magnitude and still think and perceive the universe as we do."

So, we have her saying “we” twice. “We” are children compared to the Ancient Sith but “we” are also below Nihilus; his power so above “we” that he sees the universe differently.

This is actually a large interest of mine. They place an emphasis somewhat on how Nihilus sees things. It’s different from normal people as clearly stated by Traya and then further explained by Tobin. Ote this exchange.

Visas: I do not believe he knows his ship has been boarded. And if he did, he would not care. The extent of his power can not be put into words. And his perceptions have grown as well. To him...

Tobin: You are dust motes in a storm. A grain upon the beach and as insignificant as a body that orbits the graveyard of Malachor.

Canderous: If he’s so powerful, why hasn’t he stopped us, then?

Tobin: It is because he sees planets, stars...not people. To him, the planet below, the station with its teeming life, only that is massive enough to demand his attention.

So, can I ask someone...why would anyone put Revan above Nihilus? Nihilus has far more canon powers and abilities. Two of which put him above anythign Revan has done.

How does PoD put Revan above Nihilus? Does it say he was the strongest Sith of his time or something?

Well, for starters, clear quotes saying he's the strongest.

Second, quotes saying he knows all the Ancient Sith techniques and abilities.

Third, feats like destroying starfleets by ripping apart space-time, making wormholes, lburying a Super Star Destroyer, mindraping all of Coruscant, killing 3 Dark Side Adepts who had revived Darth Maul, draining the people of Byss (in moderation) and a lot more.

Originally posted by Nikkolas
Well, for starters, clear quotes saying he's the strongest.

Second, quotes saying he knows all the Ancient Sith techniques and abilities.

Third, feats like destroying starfleets by ripping apart space-time, making wormholes, lburying a Super Star Destroyer, mindraping all of Coruscant, killing 3 Dark Side Adepts who had revived Darth Maul, draining the people of Byss (in moderation) and a lot more.

Originally posted by Nikkolas
Tobin knows nothing about Nihilus?

Originally posted by Nikkolas

He tells us most of what we know about Nihilus. And a lot of it is confirmed by Visas.

Originally posted by Nikkolas

Except that common sense doesn't tell us how he is holding the ship up and nothing in dialogue says it is a constant use of his power to keep the ship up..

Originally posted by Nikkolas

Well we can't just assume if he tried to mindrape her he would fail. It has no support unless the Exile has shown mental resistance feats?

Originally posted by Nikkolas

Yes but, as you said of Nihilus keeping the Ravager's inhabitants alive, it's irrelevant as it has no use in a versus.

Originally posted by Nikkolas

Tobin might not have been there but he's the main source of info on Nihilus...moreso than even Kreia. Most of what he says is supported by Visas who would know. In-universe characters can be fallible but aren't their quotes useable if they aren't contradicted?

Originally posted by Nikkolas

Emerald Lightning only ever killed non-Force Users with no defense... i fail to see how is is a real insta-kill until an actual Furce user is killed instantly by it.

Originally posted by Nikkolas

'cause I've never been a big Vader fan. I like Palpatine more.

The only person I was really arguing with was DS. And that's over with right now.

I think Nihilus is the second most powerful. This is not a slight on Exar or Vader or anyone. I just think his feats put him above them. Yes, it is primarily the feat of draining Katarr that puts him above them but he's done other impressive things with The Force to make me think he's far more than a one-trick pony.

but shwozers! cant Nihlus jus use his amazin awsum wikidnes on Sidos and drian him of teh force?

We know Sidous learned all the teachniques of the Ancients. Now admittedly, his drain didn't have nearly the devastation of Nihilus' but this is mainly because he didn't need the whole planet's energy. Just the people in it.

Nihilus' drain also seems to strip skin from bones and wreck buildings...

But logic dictates Palpatine most likely has a defense for the technique.

This is yet another reason why I disliked KOTOR 2 so much. The big bad guy is a demi-god in his own right. Sure there's conniving in Kreia, there's a visible threat in Sion, but then they throw in a planet eater? Jesus Christ, what next? A Galaxy Muncher?

At least the first game was reasonable in its antagonists.

On-topic though, aside from Nihilus's Draining techniques (A Deus ex machina frankly), does anyone honestly believe he would be second?