The probem lies in the belief that the difference in numbers will be Superman's downfall. When in fact Superman's powerset enables him to tango with numerous opponents. Specially characters that are grounded to strength & durability only. They fail to grasp the concept that Superman is too fast for any of the bricks to pose a threat to him. They will either be paralized, one-shotted out of orbit for a BFR, or get thrown into the sun before they can react. And even if they manage to somehow gain reactin times on par with Superman they will still have to deal with his intangibility & numerous other powers.
So the bricks are inconsequential in this match up. That leaves us with 3 characters: Sersi, Vision & Mrs. Marvel.
Mrs. Marvel is more versatile than the bricks, well duh, but she is just not on par with Superman's speed, strength and durability.
Vision's intangibility is the reason he might survive longer than the bricks, but considering Supes superior speed he won't get a chance to activate it before Supes dismantles him; unless he is already intangible before the match started which would indicate he had prep time, and the rules for the thread state there is no prep.
Sersi is the one true threat, but even she is eclipsed by his speed. Not to mention Superman has proven himself very resistant to matter manipulation.
Originally posted by JuntaiSeveral of the fanboys here and you are making a mistake with regards to bloodlust. If he has proven to show the ability, then you should assume he could do it in a hypothetical fight. However, he's never speedblitzed a near top-tier durable opponent and beat him within a second. Ever. Nobody's coughed up a scan. Equus, who's durability is far below the levels of several of the team characters here wasn't even defeated by a speedblitz in a second. So once you prove that Superman can speedblitz and defeat an opponent of higher or comparable durability, then you can assume he could do it here because he is fighting to his greatest capacity.
Just because he doesn't always do it, doesn't mean he can't.Check out the forum rules on bloodlust;
"That means they will use any powers at their disposal. For example, even though The Flash doesn't clock each of his own opponents in the first picosecond in his own comic, it is assumed that is a viable tactic on this board since it is a proven fact that he possesses that level of speed."That is how his speed is to be treated.
His combination of strength and speed here, will blow many of these slow heavy hitters away, despite showings of slowing down for opponents or what-have-you, it is within his characters power under forum rules, to fly up and demolish Hulk in a fraction of a second, for example.
As always the outcome is opinion, I've yet to decide myself, I tend not to like posts with so many characters.
I'm not arguing that he wouldn't try it. Others are making that argument. Others have argued that he doesn't normally do it, so he probably wouldn't do it here. I don't agree with them. He will probably speedblitz in this fight. But just because he will try, doesn't mean that it will end this fight in a second. Because for crimminy's sake, it hasn't ended his other 1v1 fights with similar opponents in a single second, let alone against four-five.
Many of you homoerotic fanboys say he could end this in a second. Fact is, he's never done it to foes with the kind of durability listed here and defeated them as quickly as you all want to conclude. You're assuming, even in the face of evidence to the contrary. So stop, backtrack a second and realize that bloodlust counts for what proven capabilities are, not for what unproven capabilities are.
Or if you can't, then look at the other characters and prove that they have been speedblitzed before and lost in a fraction of a second. Then we could probably more safely assume that Superman could do it. But give me a break. Gladiator speedblitzed Wonderman from behind and he was still fighting hard. He wasn't defeated in a second. Northstar and Gladiator have speedblitzed Hulk but that only annoyed and hurt him, respectively. They didn't defeat Hulk in a split second.
Originally posted by TricksterPriestAnd then there is this fool, who acts like he's looking at the scans and still doesn't realize how utterly wrong he is. Go ahead and put up that Mongul scan ot that Equus scan, you nimrod.
This seems kind of like a fool's errand. I don't think they're gonna admit how wrong they are, and they won't listen to reason or scans. 😬Why is it so hard to accept how much more powerful DC is in some categories? It's just a fact, there's no getting around it.
Originally posted by UniOmni
Forum Superman wins.Then again, Forum characters are mere powersets, not characters in truth.
Comic Superman would lose, since this team isn't full of no name fodder villains like Ending Battle was.
Tho, it was an impressive showing.
I agree with that. Forum Superman will win. Comic Superman will slug it out with them, take a couple out, and then lose.
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Several of the fanboys here and you are making a mistake with regards to bloodlust. If he has proven to show the ability, then you should assume he could do it in a hypothetical fight. However, he's never speedblitzed a near top-tier durable opponent and beat him within a second. Ever. Nobody's coughed up a scan. Equus, who's durability is far below the levels of several of the team characters here wasn't even defeated by a speedblitz in a second. So once you prove that Superman can speedblitz and defeat an opponent of higher or comparable durability, then you can assume he could do it here because he is fighting to his greatest capacity.I'm not arguing that he wouldn't try it. Others are making that argument. Others have argued that he doesn't normally do it, so he probably wouldn't do it here. I don't agree with them. He will probably speedblitz in this fight. But just because he will try, doesn't mean that it will end this fight in a second. Because for crimminy's sake, it hasn't ended his other 1v1 fights with similar opponents in a single second, let alone against four-five.
Many of you homoerotic fanboys say he could end this in a second. Fact is, he's never done it to foes with the kind of durability listed here and defeated them as quickly as you all want to conclude. You're assuming, even in the face of evidence to the contrary. So stop, backtrack a second and realize that bloodlust counts for what proven capabilities are, not for what unproven capabilities are.
Or if you can't, then look at the other characters and prove that they have been speedblitzed before and lost in a fraction of a second. Then we could probably more safely assume that Superman could do it. But give me a break. Gladiator speedblitzed Wonderman from behind and he was still fighting hard. He wasn't defeated in a second. Northstar and Gladiator have speedblitzed Hulk but that only annoyed and hurt him, respectively. They didn't defeat Hulk in a split second.
And then there is this fool, who acts like he's looking at the scans and still doesn't realize how utterly wrong he is. Go ahead and put up that Mongul scan ot that Equus scan, you nimrod.
You lose all credibility when you start calling people homoerotic fanboys.
Originally posted by OneDumbG0However, instead of looking for an instace, consider this.
Several of the fanboys here and you are making a mistake with regards to bloodlust. If he has proven to show the ability, then you should assume he could do it in a hypothetical fight. However, he's never speedblitzed a near top-tier durable opponent and beat him within a second. Ever. Nobody's coughed up a scan. Equus, who's durability is far below the levels of several of the team characters here wasn't even defeated by a speedblitz in a second. So once you prove that Superman can speedblitz and defeat an opponent of higher or comparable durability, then you can assume he could do it here because he is fighting to his greatest capacity.I'm not arguing that he wouldn't try it. Others are making that argument. Others have argued that he doesn't normally do it, so he probably wouldn't do it here. I don't agree with them. He will probably speedblitz in this fight. But just because he will try, doesn't mean that it will end this fight in a second. Because for crimminy's sake, it hasn't ended his other 1v1 fights with similar opponents in a single second, let alone against four-five.
Many of you homoerotic fanboys say he could end this in a second. Fact is, he's never done it to foes with the kind of durability listed here and defeated them as quickly as you all want to conclude. You're assuming, even in the face of evidence to the contrary. So stop, backtrack a second and realize that bloodlust counts for what proven capabilities are, not for what unproven capabilities are.
Or if you can't, then look at the other characters and prove that they have been speedblitzed before and lost in a fraction of a second. Then we could probably more safely assume that Superman could do it. But give me a break. Gladiator speedblitzed Wonderman from behind and he was still fighting hard. He wasn't defeated in a second. Northstar and Gladiator have speedblitzed Hulk but that only annoyed and hurt him, respectively. They didn't defeat Hulk in a split second.
And then there is this fool, who acts like he's looking at the scans and still doesn't realize how utterly wrong he is. Go ahead and put up that Mongul scan ot that Equus scan, you nimrod.
Has Superman showed the speed enough to blitz this basically non moving team, comparatively?
Could he do so, and swing several times before they react, based on his speed and combat feats?
Has he shown that he has the strength to put down top tiers if he doesn't hold back punches?
If one wasn't enough, would 500 of them be?
Originally posted by UniOmni
His post does have merit tho.Has Superman ever dropped someone with elite top tier durability in a second?
Never said his post had no merit. However he can argue without insulting those who disagree with him.
I'd have to search Superman's god-damned huge respect thread. But IMO it still matters not if he can actually KO them or not in a second. Because as I stated earlier and ignored by everyone, olympian excluded, he can simply paralyze them with super speed.
I dunno, your double standards are beginning to show. In the Surfer thread, you were talking about how Surfer was going to fly around in 300x lightspeed and chop Superman in half, while creating black holes and emiting kryptonite and red sun.. bla bla bla. Such multitasking, or tactics he's never done on panel.
Then argue if that Superman can't fly fast and hit hard at the same time. When it's basically a part of the character with how common it is.
Originally posted by TricksterPriest
In DC? Are you kidding? DC guys are too powerful to drop that fast. 🙄 But he has soloed the JLA and other groups, so, the answer is probably yes. Someone can check the respect thread, but given that it's Superman, it'll be there.
Wow, bias much?
And you're way too dependent on respect threads.....read the actual comics sometime, yea?
Originally posted by JuntaiDon't add the two together and compound them on top of each other without recognizing that he has to sacrifice one for the other to a certain extent. You're assuming that he could bring his fullest super-strength and his speed at the same time in a successive flurry of 500 full-strength punches. Even batdude123 and nvrbeenwthagrl don't go that far. They understand that his strongest punches require concentration and effort and have never been combined with a speedblitz. Superman pauses momentarily to gather his strength to blow apart Stewart's forcefield in 'Sacrifice.' That is an example of him not holding back and note that it takes time.
However, instead of looking for an instace, consider this.Has Superman showed the speed enough to blitz this basically non moving team, comparatively?
Could he do so, and swing several times before they react, based on his speed and combat feats?
Has he shown that he has the strength to put down top tiers if he doesn't hold back punches?
If one wasn't enough, would 500 of them be?
Each of the punches in his speedblitzing against Mongul are nowhere near his full strength punches. How do I know this? Other than the obvious fact that the already exhausted Mongul could never survive that many full-strength punches? Superman fights him again in 'Infinite Crisis' and knocks him down after cutting loose with a few full strength punches and heat vision shots. So there are two choices we have to make here regarding these scenes. And even though logic dictates how obvious my point is, I'll go through it painstakingly:
1) Superman was indeed using full-strength punches in his speedblitzing in the former fight. Every single one of those punches were full-strength. Result: Mongul must have gotten pretty frigging weak by the time the latter fight happened because he only gets hit a few times and we have here a contradictory conundrum.
2) Superman was not using full-strength punches in his speed-blitzing in the former fight because he had to sacrifice some strength for speed. Result: He uses full strength punches later on and lays Mongul down with several of them and there is no contradiction between the two fights.
Okham's razor at it's finest. Or if you want it to be simpler, when you punch in a flurry, are all those punches as strong as one punch that is fully realized and not holding back? The obvious answer is no. I can keep this up all day. But I would appreciate it that when you want to change the topic by suggesting that I am not "considering bloodlust" or suggesting a different way to "look at it," that you concede the points when I counter them.
The course of this argument, for anybody who is keeping track has progressed from:
1) Superman can speedblitz them in one second. My reply: No he can't. He's never done so.
2) Superman is fighting with bloodlust, therefore if he could do it, he ought to be assumed to do it here. My reply: I told you, you haven't proven he could do it. So you can't assume he could do it here.
3) Yes, but maybe if he just think hypothetically and ignore past scans and instances, you could intuit that he could do it. My reply: Okham's razor and the scans illustrate how powerful his punches are during a speedblitz. They are below his "no-holding back top-tier" punches he is capable of unleashing. Look at Mongul fight #1 and Mongul fight #2. You can see the difference. And in the end, what he's done on-panel is FAR more telling then what you want him to be able to do.
Flash does not have super strength, and yet a high-speed punch is still capable of knocking out a Superman level White Martian.
Same thing is applied here.
Tell me how the bricks will stop Superman from:
a) paralizing them
b) punching them out of orbit
c) bombing them with heat vision from afar
Also tell me how will the bricks manage to land a single blow on an opponent that vibrates his body so fast he renders himself intangible?
Originally posted by OneDumbG0Hence, what I'm speaking of with your double standard, comparing your stance in the Surfer thread, to here.
Don't add the two together and compound them on top of each other without recognizing that he has to sacrifice one for the other to a certain extent. You're assuming that he could bring his fullest super-strength and his speed at the same time in a successive flurry of 500 full-strength punches. Even batdude123 and nvrbeenwthagrl don't go that far. They understand that his strongest punches require concentration and effort and have never been combined with a speedblitz. Superman pauses momentarily to gather his strength to blow apart Stewart's forcefield in 'Sacrifice.' That is an example of him not holding back and note that it takes time.Each of the punches in his speedblitzing against Mongul are nowhere near his full strength punches. How do I know this? Other than the obvious fact that the already exhausted Mongul could never survive that many full-strength punches? Superman fights him again in 'Infinite Crisis' and knocks him down after cutting loose with a few full strength punches and heat vision shots. So there are two choices we have to make here regarding these scenes. And even though logic dictates how obvious my point is, I'll go through it painstakingly:
1) Superman was indeed using full-strength punches in his speedblitzing in the former fight. Every single one of those punches were full-strength. Result: Mongul must have gotten pretty frigging weak by the time the latter fight happened because he only gets hit a few times and we have here a contradictory conundrum.
2) Superman was not using full-strength punches in his speed-blitzing in the former fight because he had to sacrifice some strength for speed. Result: He uses full strength punches later on and lays Mongul down with several of them and there is no contradiction between the two fights.
Okham's razor at it's finest. Or if you want it to be simpler, when you punch in a flurry, are all those punches as strong as one punch that is fully realized and not holding back? The obvious answer is no. I can keep this up all day. But I would appreciate it that when you want to change the topic by suggesting that I am not "considering bloodlust" or suggesting a different way to "look at it," that you concede the points when I counter them.
The course of this argument, for anybody who is keeping track has progressed from:
1) Superman can speedblitz them in one second. My reply: No he can't. He's never done so.
2) Superman is fighting with bloodlust, therefore if he could do it, he ought to be assumed to do it here. My reply: I told you, you haven't proven he could do it. So you can't assume he could do it here.
3) Yes, but maybe if he just think hypothetically and ignore past scans and instances, you could intuit that he could do it. My reply: Okham's razor and the scans illustrate how powerful his punches are during a speedblitz. They are below his "no-holding back top-tier" punches he is capable of unleashing. Look at Mongul fight #1 and Mongul fight #2. You can see the difference. And in the end, what he's done on-panel is FAR more telling then what you want him to be able to do.
Superman has shown he can blitz.
Superman has shown that when he moves, he is fast enough to make Hulk[I'll use him as an average there] seem like he's standing still.
Superman has shown the physical strength required to down Hulk.
Just because he doesn't do it in comics, doesn't mean he's incapable. Read the forum rules again. They speficially state what I'm speaking of, in regards to Flash instead of Superman. "It's a viable tactic, because we know he posseses this level of speed".
I don't get how you don't accept this.
I'm not conceeding any countered points, because you haven't countered any in a satisfactory manner. Only disregarded in complete hypocrisy.
Originally posted by JuntaiThe fact that you pretty much quoted my response before I could even type it shows to me that you were anticipating my response beforehand. That tells me, that even you recognize the fallacy of your hypothetical.
I dunno, your double standards are beginning to show. In the Surfer thread, you were talking about how Surfer was going to fly around in 300x lightspeed and chop Superman in half, while creating black holes and emiting kryptonite and red sun.. bla bla bla. Such multitasking, or tactics he's never done on panel.Then argue if that Superman can't fly fast and hit hard at the same time. When it's basically a part of the character with how common it is.
But your response to the Surfer is something I will address. Surfer has been seen to be multitasking a lot. Indeed, the fight he has with Red Shift in the blackhole? Another Galactus herald? Let me explain to you the full circumstances of the fight:
Surfer is travelling with Alicia Masters in space. Surfer has transmuted Alicia's clothing into a nanotech armor. He also is using his power at the same time to heal her blindness and allow her to see. Red Shift attacks her and hurts her gravely. He creates a healing barrier to save Alicia Masters. The black hole is created, he uses his power to create another barrier to protect her from the gravitational forces of the black hole and re-energizes her armor. At the same time, he powers his board to hypervelocity to escape the black hole and uses his concentration to guide it back to Earth. He throws a blast at Red Shift, causing them to be both forced into the black hole. Fights him inside, shunts himself into the Microverse, leaving Red Shift there.
All that pretty much at the same time he has diverted all those energies already. This scan sums up his multitasking pretty well. So no, I don't think I'm taking a double standard in the least:
