Originally posted by Juntai
We all have the same opportunities to do whatever we want to do in life. You can find white people in the hood, alongside the minorities, and you can find minories in the gated communities... or even running for President, such as my states senator.
Thats the sort of thing masterbruce is talking about that sounds really naive. Things have improved alot though.
Originally posted by Symmetric ChaosThe panel in question for reference.
That was the racist comment?
Originally posted by Symmetric ChaosBP has the cure for cancer... he won't let the rest of the world have it, and he didn't have it for Mar-Vell. 131
I dunno. Maybe it's the incredibly advanced technology that puts them well ahead of every other nation?
Originally posted by AlfheimI never said things were equal, even in a workplace were people do the same shit for the same pay, complain about stuff not being equal. That's completely subjective.
Thats the sort of thing masterbruce is talking about that sounds really naive. Things have improved alot though.
However, what I said holds true. You can be whatever you want, if you want it bad enough.
Originally posted by xmarksthespot
The panel in question for reference.
Ah he didnt just say Wakandan he said African...what a load of crap.
Originally posted by Juntai
I never said things were equal, even in a workplace were people do the same shit for the same pay, complain about stuff not being equal. That's completely subjective.However, what I said holds true. You can be whatever you want, if you want it bad enough.
Ok I agree.
Originally posted by masterbruceEuropeans originally sourced slave labour through indigenous African slavery. AFAIK the majority of slave trade as a result of European conquest was towards the end of transatlantic slave trade.
6. While a small group of White people ruled, they still REPRESENT white people. Did these 'Rich,White Males from countries such as England and France, Netherlands, and that region" enslave other whites from other regions...NO. They only enslaved blacks.
Originally posted by SpunkySmurph
Oh, really? Notify me the next time a white character accuses Falcon, Mr. Terrific, or Psylocke of being racist. Or some other character that has never been shown to be influenced through ethnicity, nationality, race, or plain skin color. It's not neccessarily for overwriting him, as it is for highlighting every single black character in comics, and downplaying every single white character, on top of accusing well known caucasian characters of being racist, as well as have every single event this character is involved in be racially motivated.That's Hudlin.
Are you suggesting that, because Hudlin may have been through events in his own life that were scaring, and/or racially motivated, that he should have a right to take a well known comics character, with a history all his own, and bastardize him because Hudlin has a grudge against the world?
Or that he should be able to portray all of caucasian Marvel to be racist, because he's prejudice?
And, you saying that he rightfully has a prejudice means nothing. Most people who have posted so far have been saying that he is a racist, or is strongly racially influenced in his writing. You saying that he has aright to be that way is pointless.
I could easily see them written as being prejudice, or slightly uncomfortable around white characters, but racist? Not at all.
Sorry to break it to you, but nearly everyone has in some way been influenced ethnically, nationally, or racially. Every writer has written a comic in a manner that in some way reflects the things he or she has seen in life. Hudlin is doing the same, but in a different and more controversial way. He's put a new twist in comics that apparently offends the white consumer.
Is that not the same thing that has been done to African American characters throughout the duration of the industry? In the majority of titles African Americans are portrayed "as side kicks, and smart mouthed "punching bags". We're either written as Angry Black Man, Token Man, or Jive Guy. So, as you complain about how your people are represented in this single book. Consider how a Black kid feels reading any other book except this one." From BlueMightyd
He did nothing that contradicted Dooms history. The statement doom made is the same sort of statement I've heard from white many white people who aren't that familiar with black people. Doom didn't make a racist statement rather an ignorant one.
Everyone has a prejudice, rather it be justified or unjustified. All Hudlin is doing is writing comics in a manner that mirrors that way he views the world. This is something all writers do, and I have no problem with Hudlin doing so.
Originally posted by His AirnessYou know there are things called unbiased writing which Hudlin could learn to do.
I could easily see them written as being prejudice, or slightly uncomfortable around white characters, but racist? Not at all.Sorry to break it to you, but nearly everyone has in some way been influenced ethnically, nationally, or racially. Every writer has written a comic in a manner that in some way reflects the things he or she has seen in life. Hudlin is doing the same, but in a different and more controversial way. He's put a new twist in comics that apparently offends the white consumer.
Is that not the same thing that has been done to African American characters throughout the duration of the industry? In the majority of titles African Americans are portrayed "as side kicks, and smart mouthed "punching bags". We're either written as Angry Black Man, Token Man, or Jive Guy. So, as you complain about how your people are represented in this single book. Consider how a Black kid feels reading any other book except this one." From BlueMightyd
He did nothing that contradicted Dooms history. The statement doom made is the same sort of statement I've heard from white many white people who aren't that familiar with black people. Doom didn't make a racist statement rather an ignorant one.
Everyone has a prejudice, rather it be justified or unjustified. All Hudlin is doing is writing comics in a manner that mirrors that way he views the world. This is something all writers do, and I have no problem with Hudlin doing so.
I'm not saying that Hudlin shouldn't be able to write about race but I think that he needs to take a moment to understand the character he is writing nad better yet the concepts behind a character.
Hudlin's style of writing would have been much more acceptable and better ahd it been done with someone like Luke Cage or Blade or Falcon. Not Black Panther.
Originally posted by masterbruce
1. We are talking about white/black racism because we're talking about Doom/Black Panther.2. Anyone that votes have some form of power, absolutely correct. Whites are majority, so they naturally have MORE power.
3. No one ever said a majority of white people were racist.
4. Slavery ended after OUR COUNTRY FOUGHT A WAR OVER IT. Had the south won, we might have a very different country today.
5. No one ever said all white people had power. In America, it's anglo WASPs who used to have most of power, now with a shift towards Jewish people.
6. While a small group of White people ruled, they still REPRESENT white people. Did these 'Rich,White Males from countries such as England and France, Netherlands, and that region" enslave other whites from other regions...NO. They only enslaved blacks.
Whats funny is slavery wasn't ended because people believed slavery to be bad but rather because it was believed that it would be best for the Union. Lincoln himself made the statement that if slavery would have aided the Union that he would have surely allowed it to remain.
Originally posted by Newjak
You know there are things called unbiased writing which Hudlin could learn to do.I'm not saying that Hudlin shouldn't be able to write about race but I think that he needs to take a moment to understand the character he is writing nad better yet the concepts behind a character.
Hudlin's style of writing would have been much more acceptable and better ahd it been done with someone like Luke Cage or Blade or Falcon. Not Black Panther.
Ture, but couldn't every other writer do the same? He's not perfect, but neithe is anybody else.
Fine by me.
How so?
Originally posted by His AirnessFeel free to name any specific comic book writer who displays the same level of personal prejudice in their comics today, that Hudlin does. doped
Ture, but couldn't every other writer do the same? He's not perfect, but neithe is anybody else.
I heard on the grapevine Lincoln's stovepipe hat was really a robot in disguise that transformed and changed colour into a cone shaped white hood.
Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Feel free to name any specific comic book writer who displays the same level of personal prejudice in their comics today, that Hudlin does. doped
How many other writers work titles that star a Black character or team?
How can a white writer display any prejudice to the opposite race when 99% of the characters he writes are white or alien?
he can become a better writer, but I see no problem with him writing comics as so mirror the events he's been through in life.
Originally posted by His AirnessBefore you were claiming a non-descript "everyone else" does the same thing Hudlin does. Now you're claiming the non-descript "everyone else" only writes white characters (or aliens) therefore can't display the same level of personal biases Hudlin does. Incongruity.
How many other writers work titles that star a Black character or team?How can a white writer display any prejudice to the opposite race when 99% of the characters he writes are white or alien?
he can become a better writer, but I see no problem with him writing comics as so mirror the events he's been through in life.
Originally posted by His AirnessYes but then again I generally dislike everyone writing with a certain bias that goes against a character.
Ture, but couldn't every other writer do the same? He's not perfect, but neithe is anybody else.Fine by me.
How so?
How so?
Because why would Racism really be that relevant to Black Panther.
Lets take a second to break down BP.
He is Black born into a nation of all blacks. Also a country in Africa.v Also in a country that is gnereations ahead of the world. He would never have known racism in his life. Much less racism on the level of American Slavery.
He is a King of an Isolationist country that doesn't trust anyone or anything. So why should he be worried about racism when he already has fought alongside people of all races, nation, and ethnic groups. Seriously as a King you would think he would worry more about "Nations" trying to take over his "country". Then worrying about sticking it to the White man for his fellow Black Brothers and risk sending his entire country into war.
While lets look at Luke Cage. The guy was born in the mean streets and lived there is whole life. He has policed them with his life. He has to see the many faces of racism.
So then why would someone like Luke Cage be a better pick for Hudlin's concepts then a Rich King in a Nation more worried about keeping every nation from getting thier resources.
Originally posted by His Airness
I could easily see them written as being prejudice, or slightly uncomfortable around white characters, but racist? Not at all.Sorry to break it to you, but nearly everyone has in some way been influenced ethnically, nationally, or racially. Every writer has written a comic in a manner that in some way reflects the things he or she has seen in life. Hudlin is doing the same, but in a different and more controversial way. He's put a new twist in comics that apparently offends the white consumer.
Im black and it offends me I grew up on Marvel and I dont want well known characters to be twisted into racist ones.
Originally posted by His Airness
Is that not the same thing that has been done to African American characters throughout the duration of the industry? In the majority of titles African Americans are portrayed "as side kicks, and smart mouthed "punching bags". We're either written as Angry Black Man, Token Man, or Jive Guy. So, as you complain about how your people are represented in this single book. Consider how a Black kid feels reading any other book except this one." From BlueMightyd
I thought people are supposed to learn from other peoples mistakes?
Originally posted by His Airness
He did nothing that contradicted Dooms history. The statement doom made is the same sort of statement I've heard from white many white people who aren't that familiar with black people. Doom didn't make a racist statement rather an ignorant one.
Dr Doom maybe a basterd but hes not ignorant.
Originally posted by His Airness
Everyone has a prejudice, rather it be justified or unjustified. All Hudlin is doing is writing comics in a manner that mirrors that way he views the world. This is something all writers do, and I have no problem with Hudlin doing so.
I dunno man making every white character into a racist isnt a good thing.
Originally posted by NewjakSo then why would someone like Luke Cage be a better pick for Hudlin's concepts then a Rich King in a Nation more worried about keeping every nation from getting thier resources.
I tell you what though. Marvel are partially to blame. Its positive discrimnation they probably thought that because Hudlin wrote House Party that he would be a good writer for BP.
Originally posted by masterbruceThe war wasn't fought over slavery, it shows your ignorance of the subject. The war, as all wars, was fought over money.
1. We are talking about white/black racism because we're talking about Doom/Black Panther.2. Anyone that votes have some form of power, absolutely correct. Whites are majority, so they naturally have MORE power.
3. No one ever said a majority of white people were racist.
4. Slavery ended after OUR COUNTRY FOUGHT A WAR OVER IT. Had the south won, we might have a very different country today.
5. No one ever said all white people had power. In America, it's anglo WASPs who used to have most of power, now with a shift towards Jewish people.
6. While a small group of White people ruled, they still REPRESENT white people. Did these 'Rich,White Males from countries such as England and France, Netherlands, and that region" enslave other whites from other regions...NO. They only enslaved blacks.
The south produced and still produce most all goods in the united states, the north wanted their money. The South wanted to cut them out. The North in an act of aggression began to attack the south as a result. That's why the "Civil War" is also commonly known as "The Act of Northern Aggression". They unknowingly and unrightfully went to war with the south, because the Northern society was beginning to fall apart.
Some might have you believe it was over slavery, but that's mostly a smokescreen to the facts at hand. But, the winner is who writes history and write the textbooks that tell of such history.
But putting a few things into perspective. The South had free minorities before the North ever did, though a majority of slaves did belong to rich folks in the south. Minorities joined the south in war before they joined the north, on their own terms, and the south also had larger amounts of blacks in their ranks through the entirety of war.
Slavery, although the entre idea of it is wrong as a whole in my opinion, actually did a few good things as well. It created an advancement in a society at a rate that hasn't been seen before or since. Though as Hollywood favors tragedy over realism, you only hear of the worst case scenarios involving bad slave owners.
Though they didn't fully have equal rights yet, most families treated their slave as family. And most families only had 1, rather than the dozens or hundreds one might have you believe. The President of the south left a large portion of his fortune to a black man when he died. A black man he considered family.
Lincoln and the other rich men of the North decided proclaiming equal rights to the blacks in the North, while painting the south as evil, would be a shot to hurt the money and the workforce of those in the south, who at the time, were winning the war. It was an act of desperation more than anything, only solidified by the fact many of the rich men in the North, some of President Lincolns family members included, as well as many of the northern lawmakers owned slaves as well. Rich men of the North vs Rich men in the south.
White people also aren't the ones who created slavery of the blacks, the slaves were slaves in Africa first. The laws there depicted them as under ownership of their rulers. They were traded as goods, feeling it was the only thing they had to offer rich countries as compensation for other goods.
And none of this even touches base with the fact that Africans, even farther back in history, as they built their empires, had other blacks, whites, chinese, and people from nearly every culture in slavery.
The very reason that the topic is so big in America -- besides it being rather recent history, though not as recent as other countries [Yeah I'm looking at you Australia, etc].. and "Big Media" ramming it down our throats until it hurts -- is because it went against the very reason people established the United States to begin with.
Historians will still argue that the Civil War was the moment that both brought realisation to the true ideal of America, as well as lost it, at once.
In todays American society, its not "Whites" or "Blacks" or a race that holds power, its Big Media, Big Corporate, and government parties[who are obviously supported and are loosely elected by the previous two.]
People also commonly overlook the fact that women of all races went through a lot of the same. They had no rights either. Luckily we learn from the mistakes of our past and continuously make attempts to change it. It's the job of each generation to tear down the beliefs and ideals of the last as we move forward.
Originally posted by His Airness
Whats funny is slavery wasn't ended because people believed slavery to be bad but rather because it was believed that it would be best for the Union. Lincoln himself made the statement that if slavery would have aided the Union that he would have surely allowed it to remain.
In England it's a whole different story. What this guy in the link below did to oppose the slave trade is remarkable ✅
