As requested - The argument about crap music...and a (fair) poll

I've been here for a while, answering everything you throw at me and even things you don't, so the least YOU can do is answer the question:

Can you prove that a song is objectively shit? Any song. Pick one.

Or good.

Originally posted by EPIIIBITES
I'm not TALKING ABOUT OBJEVTIVE MUSIC.

WHEN IN THE LAST 3 DAYS HAVE I BEEN DISCUSSINIG OBJECTIVE MUSIC?

I'm TALKING ABOUT WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT...

Hahahahaha, and you accuse ME of switching the topic.

This whole debacle is about you proving an objective standard, and knowing you've lost, you've come back to play a semantics game about how I choose my words, and if a song can be shit or not, based entirely on a misinterpretation of what I said.

Idiot.

-AC

Originally posted by EPIIIBITES
I am talking about how RIDICULOUS it is to say "this songs is crap" when you also say "there is no such thing as crap music"

But I never said such a thing. So, why the hell would I care? Because I don't care.

The whole reason I came to this thread was to debate whether the "goodness" or "badness" of music was a matter of taste and opinion, or if it was moored to some kind of objective standard. Now, if that isn't what we've been talking about then I must be very confused. Because I was under the impression that you did believe what constitutes good music is not simply a matter of personal opinion.

If you read the three threads he's based this around, that is his main point, that's the point that started this.

He's dropped it because even he realised how futile it was.

Not he's moved onto asking you questions regarding a statement I made, that he misinterpreted.

-AC

Originally posted by Ytse
No, I don't care what someone else said shit meant. Tell me:

I believe music is objective because...

and then explain your reasoning.

How can AC say something like this regarding what it means to say "this song is crap"....when he claims there is no such thng as "crap" music. I said that statement can only mean "I like it" or "I hate it"...and that it can't be "personal opinion" for him that it's "crap."

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
No, it is personal opinion. Whether it's shit or not depends on if you think it's shit or not.

He is contradicting his very own beliefs regarding no good/crap music.

If you stopped ignoring me and started reading my explanations you wouldn't have to keep asking everyone else what I mean.

I'm sitting here telling you that I believe shit songs exist, but only in opinion. Same with good songs.

What you are ignoring is that they only exist on a subjective level, that's what I'm telling you. A song is only shit or good depending on how it's perceived, it is not either of those by default.

There is no pre-set quality level, each person determines their own view and opinion on the quality of a song, it's all opinion.

Stop saying "BUT THEN HOW CAN YOU HAVE SAID THIS?!", because the quote you keep refering to, you keep misinterpreting.

-AC

I wouldn't care to speculate on that at all. AC and I may share the some opinion ultimately but I'm not on some team with him, I'm not privy to his thoughts, I don't know him at all. I've only been on this forum for a few days now.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
I'm sitting here telling you that I believe shit songs exist, but only in opinion.

He totally doesn't get it.

If you're going to sit there misinterpreting my quotes and not listening to me explaining them, but ask others what I mean, then I'll civilly request you stop referencing me as a debate.

-AC

Originally posted by Ytse
I wouldn't care to speculate on that at all. AC and I may share the some opinion ultimately but I'm not on some team with him, I'm not privy to his thoughts, I don't know him at all. I've only been on this forum for a few days now.

Tell me what you think about what he just said again...and I'll discuss the other topic with you.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
I'm sitting here telling you that I believe shit songs exist, but only in opinion. Same with good songs.

So...does that make sense. Yes or NO.

What do YOU think?

Answer, and then we'll talk

Originally posted by EPIIIBITES
this coming from someone...who like you...says there is NO SUCH THING as crap and good music.

So...does that make sense. Yes or NO.

What do YOU think?

Answer, and then we'll talk

Yes, of course it does.

There is no such thing as OBJECTIVELY good or bad music, OBJECTIVELY. Of course there's such a thing as good and bad music subjectively, because that's individual, all our opinions on music.

Objectively shit or good would mean undeniable to everyone, and that's not true.

-AC

Haha.

Not cooperating my ass. I've answered a dozen of your questions already. And after all that you're telling me what I think? Yeah, then this argument is futile because that's the most ludicrous nonsense to pull.

I've tried to be civil and I've been more than fair. But you simply cannot back up what you claim. I'm totally convinced of that.

Have it your way then

I can see what you're trying to do...and it's because you think I'm onto you.

But whatever...I'm willing to let it slide...if you tell me what you think is wrong with this picture...(and then we'll talk about objectivity of music)

Someone who claims there is no such thing as "good"/"crap" songs or music or wine. Says this

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
I'm sitting here telling you that I believe shit songs exist, but only in opinion. Same with good songs.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
No, it is personal opinion. Whether it's shit or not depends on if you think it's shit or not.

What is he trying to prove? He can't prove anything...because there's no such thing as a shit song or music according to him.

...but then he says "It's 'shit' to me"..."it's 'shit' in my opinion"...and (and this is the kicker) says that syaing this means something apart from just expressing LIKE or DISLIKE of the music

IT DOESN'T MAKE SENSE!

Are you doing this on purpose now?

I don't think there is no such thing as a shit song, subjectively, as in...opinion. There IS no such thing as objectively shit songs, which is what YOU tried to explain.

Do you understand? If you ignore me this time I'll report you for constantly twisting my posts. Either discuss MY posts with ME, or don't bring them up.

-AC

Originally posted by EPIIIBITES
Have it your way then

I can see what you're trying to do...and it's because you think I'm onto you.

No, I have no idea what you're thinking about anything. I don't understand half of your posts since they're all confusing references to other posts which say something I could care less about.

If you want to have a conversation with me and address my points seperately...fine. But I'm not getting involved in the conversation between you and AC.

And stop telling me what I do or don't think. That's childish.

Dude...it's not that hard.

Just read the last post I made...forget eeeeverything else...and give me an answer

Then, I will be more than happy to discuss with you my theory on the objectivity of music

The post is very simply laid out...it doesn't say anything that needs an abundance of backround or knowledge of what others have said.

The quotes that are there are totally self-explanatory.

Just read it and give an answer...and then we can begin

BEAUTIFUL!

Another GEM of a quote by AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
There is no pre-set quality level, each person determines their own view and opinion on the quality of a song, it's all opinion.

I'll give someone a cookie if they point out the obvious flaw in AC's reasoning

BEAUTIFUL!

Another GEM of a quote by AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
There is no pre-set quality level, each person determines their own view and opinion on the quality of a song, it's all opinion.

Well...

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
There is no pre-set quality level, each person determines their own view and opinion on the quality of a song, it's all opinion.

I'll give someone a cookie if they point out the obvious flaw in AC's reasoning...remember this is coming from a person who (like most of you) claims there is no such thing as truly good/bad or crap/non-crap music, and who often says stuff like "this song sucks".

I'll even break it down for you...

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
...on the quality of a song...

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
...opinion on the quality of a song...

Come on Ytse...I know you can do it.

Originally posted by EPIIIBITES
Just read it and give an answer...and then we can begin

Begin? Haha. You've sent me like two PMs saying you're getting to you point and you still haven't.

As far as I'm concerned the discussion is over until you can figure out how to be reasonable. I've provided more than enough support for my position.

I am being reasonable...because you can't UNDERSTAND what I mean when I say music is objective if you don't understand THIS.

So...a new post is above. MUCH simpler than ANY other one I've made.

Read it...tell me what you think...and then we'll continue

...and remember...him saying "I think this song is crap" doesn't ONLY mean he LIKES or DISLIKES it...he's made this very clear. It means more than that...that "it's crap to HIM" or that it's "good to HIM"