Canada's rich get richer while it's poor get poorer, new study shows.

Originally posted by Starhawk
They will leave anyways, it will always be cheaper for them to be in one of those countries. Canada cannot afford to give them what it takes to make it cheaper for them to stay. And as I said companies have been making record profits and they still downsize and eliminate jobs.

This is going to be an endless repeating circle isn't it? Where you won't admit your wrong no matter what? I showed you that company's like Ikea moved their headquarters to Holland because it made it cheaper for them. That's not a third world nation it's one of the richest nations in the world capita wise.

Canada could do the same and get a lot of money from it. Socialist nations like Sweden are stagnating, prove of this has been given, none socialist nations like the rest of Europe are growing faster then country's like Sweden for a reason. Socialism isn't a good way to make your country grow. You need to find a balance between the two, and what you are suggesting to do is not creating a balance it's destroying it even more then it already has been. You want company's to stay and to do that you need to offer them advantages for staying. Your way will just work to push them out faster, and will only hurt those that stay even more as they have to pay even more money. The result will be that they will either go bankrupt, have a weakening marketing position internationally, be taken over by a foreign company or will leave eventually anyway as they have no choice. How hard is that to understand?

Just try to imagine that you have a neighbor in your street and you need the neighbors car for a day, do you a.) proceed to beat up said neighbor, or b.) ask him nicely and give him something for his trouble?

If a, what would the effect be? The neighbor would sue you and get you in jail (impossible with nations) or the neighbor would leave (very possible with company's.) then the next time you would need the neighbors car you would be out of luck because he is gone. If you would have thanked him for his services however and gave some kind of reward the neighbor would likely have stayed and given you his car again next time you asked.

And what about the people who lose their jobs when these companies downsize? And while they may stay in your country for the benefits , they will ALWAYS outsource. And hard working people are left out in the cold with nothing.

What about the disabled population? What are they supposed to do while you are giving the money for their social programs to big business? As I said Canada's economy has been great for the last decade, we eliminated the federal deficit, and yet wages for the low tax brackets have gone down, social programs have been cut again and again.

So what is your solution to those problems?

Originally posted by Starhawk
And what about the people who lose their jobs when these companies downsize? And while they may stay in your country for the benefits , they will ALWAYS outsource. And hard working people are left out in the cold with nothing.

What about the disabled population? What are they supposed to do while you are giving the money for their social programs to big business? As I said Canada's economy has been great for the last decade, we eliminated the federal deficit, and yet wages for the low tax brackets have gone down, social programs have been cut again and again.

So what is your solution to those problems?

Yes they might outsource, but you wouldn't give them the rewards if they did. Or a smaller one at least. That way you would try to reward company's for staying. If they would leave anyway they would feel it in their wallet, and they would less likely leave.

You still wouldn't be able to prevent outsourcing or them creating more factory's in other country's, but at least they would stay in Canada and still have people on their paycheck, people they would then be forced to pay. People who would in turn support the economy, if the company's would leave then this would disappear entirely.

The disabled the poor, the homeless they would still be able to get money. Canada also still has a debt of 684.7 US dollars. The interest on this loan alone is probably easily a billion dollars. That could pay for a lot, increasing the debt by spending more would in the end just hurt Canada's economical situation so I wouldn't suggest that. The surplus should primarily be used to reduce debt, and secondly to bring up the welfare of the country.

Bringing up the welfare can be primarily done by increasing economical growth. The economy is after all the backbone of the country. My solution wouldn't help people right away. It would however work on the long run, where as yours would bankrupt Canada.

Originally posted by Starhawk
And what about the people who lose their jobs when these companies downsize? And while they may stay in your country for the benefits , they will ALWAYS outsource. And hard working people are left out in the cold with nothing.

What about the disabled population? What are they supposed to do while you are giving the money for their social programs to big business? As I said Canada's economy has been great for the last decade, we eliminated the federal deficit, and yet wages for the low tax brackets have gone down, social programs have been cut again and again.

So what is your solution to those problems?

You never gave solutions.

Canada has been following your plan and it hasn't helped. The poor still don't have enough to live on, jobs are still being lost all over the place. The disabled still live in poverty when they shouldn't. Your way isn't working.

Originally posted by Starhawk
Provide figures for all of that.

Originally posted by Starhawk
You never gave solutions.

Canada has been following your plan and it hasn't helped. The poor still don't have enough to live on, jobs are still being lost all over the place. The disabled still live in poverty when they shouldn't. Your way isn't working.

Prove for that? Statistics that show it? Laws?

I find it hard to believe it won't work, might not work as well as you hope, that can be true but it should do something. It did in the rest of the world, it makes the country richer. Sure it makes people suffer at first but in the long run it's for the best of the economy. It doesn't even have to take that long. 4 years of reforms can start giving you the fruits you wanted, then it's just a matter of holding on to this until the economy gets boosted enough to change things around again and get more money to people. Which will be easy seeing as you will have more money.

Socialism to the scale that you suggest won't work either, it has never worked in any country, sure there are country's that managed to hold on long but all their economy's stagnated. It hurt their businesses and many of them left. You want to prevent that? Then stop punishing them for making money but reward them for making money in Canada.

Originally posted by Fishy
Prove for that? Statistics that show it? Laws?

I find it hard to believe it won't work, might not work as well as you hope, that can be true but it should do something. It did in the rest of the world, it makes the country richer. Sure it makes people suffer at first but in the long run it's for the best of the economy. It doesn't even have to take that long. 4 years of reforms can start giving you the fruits you wanted, then it's just a matter of holding on to this until the economy gets boosted enough to change things around again and get more money to people. Which will be easy seeing as you will have more money.

Socialism to the scale that you suggest won't work either, it has never worked in any country, sure there are country's that managed to hold on long but all their economy's stagnated. It hurt their businesses and many of them left. You want to prevent that? Then stop punishing them for making money but reward them for making money in Canada.

It's not enough to just do something, you have to fix the problem itself. And we should reward them for downsizing in the face of record profits to increase their profit margins even more? Regardless of the fact that they will outsource no matter what you do?

You want to punish disabled people and the extremely hard working poorer classes. Do you understand that I value people over business?

Originally posted by Starhawk
It's not enough to just do something, you have to fix the problem itself. And we should reward them for downsizing in the face of record profits to increase their profit margins even more? Regardless of the fact that they will outsource no matter what you do?

You want to punish disabled people and the extremely hard working poorer classes. Do you understand that I value people over business?

Again, sources for any of those previous statements? You can't go out and say shit without sources.

And once again how hard is it to understand this.

Company's leave because of taxes, because it's to expensive

They outsource because people are to expensive

Your solution: Fine them thus making things more expensive.

My solution: Make things cheaper, allowing them to stay.

Giving company tax benefits allowing them to write of expenses will make it less profitable to leave to another country. With all the risks that come with leaving like unknown local laws. The people in the country wanting something more, growing economy there thus rising wages, the huge expense of building more factory's, the expense of keeping your old factory's empty, transport costs and all that crap they have a very good reason to stay. The costs and the risks are still far lower then the costs for staying. Change that and leaving just won't be a good idea anymore.

It worked over here. It will work in Canada, unlike your BS way of taking more money from company's hoping that, that won't make them leave.

Originally posted by Starhawk
You never gave solutions.

Canada has been following your plan and it hasn't helped. The poor still don't have enough to live on, jobs are still being lost all over the place. The disabled still live in poverty when they shouldn't. Your way isn't working.

Canada has the fastest growing economy in the G8 nations, and has for many years (maybe not the last couple, I'm not all that up to date on it). Maybe you want wealth redistribution.

Oh, and another point, in Canada we are very lucky that, aside from natural resource guys, the companies here like, for whatever reason, operating in Canada. We have a rather patriotic corporate sector.

However, as you said, outsourcing and other issues have forced these companies to cut costs or go broke, and even thought they would rather operate in Canada they have to leave.

This would be more of a general principal, I'm sure you can find anti-Canadian companies operating here.

What statements are you referring to?

And I don't wanna hear about how your going to help companies, I want to hear how your going to help those in poverty and the disabled.

"You're" not "your," as in "You're not a law student."

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
"You're" not "your," as in "You're not a law student."

"Your lie stating you're a law student is laughable"

Originally posted by Bardock42
Take a sentence that makes it even more clear, like:

"Your lie stating you're a law student is laughable"

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Rhythmic, with a hint of alliteration. I like it. Gold star.

Thank you, I aim to please.

Reported for trolling

Originally posted by Starhawk
What statements are you referring to?

And I don't wanna hear about how your going to help companies, I want to hear how your going to help those in poverty and the disabled.

Originally posted by Starhawk
What statements are you referring to?

And I don't wanna hear about how your going to help companies, I want to hear how your going to help those in poverty and the disabled.

Read my post, you aren't going to help them either. You are going to destroy the economy and who are the first to suffer from a weak economy? The weak people, the poor and the disabled. Those will be screwed first with your plans.

no statements, just thinking aloud

tax incentive driven wealth redistribution?

Why is it my job to have a solution, I'm not ranting about the problem?

I don't think your assessment of the Canadian economy is accurate and thus the majority of your points are almost irrelevant.

Originally posted by Starhawk
Reported for trolling

Where are the scans you wanted to provide us with?

Originally posted by inimalist
no statements, just thinking aloud

tax incentive driven wealth redistribution?

Why is it my job to have a solution, I'm not ranting about the problem?

I don't think your assessment of the Canadian economy is accurate and thus the majority of your points are almost irrelevant.

It's your job to have a solution because you are claiming mine won't work, so then I come to you and ask if you have a better idea.

And what exactly do you thing is wrong about my assesment, don't speak in abstractions. And which points do you think are irrelevent?