It's more complicated than that. Yes, Apocalypse can enter the Astral Plane through astral projection, but he needed Cable to teleport their PHYSICAL FORMS to the astral plane, a fairly impressive feat in and of itself...but one I don't think was ever supposed to be within Cable's power to do before. Kind of out of left field in regards to his level at the time.
Originally posted by Alfheim
Yes and manslaughter manipluates the functions of the body by making himself invisible. 😐
If he manipulates the nervous system which the optical nerves are connected to then he can render himself invisible that way.
If he can't read thoughts then he's not a true telepath.
Yes by why do you have to just be able to read peoples thoughts to gain access? If you can acess peoples mind even if you cant acess their thoughts you still have acess to their mental energy logically it should give you limited astral projection. Telepathy does not strictly have to be reading people thoughts but manipulating minds psionically and at the end of the day thats what gives people astral porjection so it should apply to all forms of telepathy.
He's manipulating peoples minds by manipulating their nervous system. He's not consciously controlling their thoughts. He's manipulating their biological functions via secondary means...while a telepath manipulates a persons functions directly at the source.
The Astral Plane is mental energy if you don't have direct control over mental then how are you supposed to access or manipulate the Astral Plane.
http://img147.imageshack.us/my.php?image=xmen07722um8.jpg
I'm sure he'd have some tiny link to the Astral Plane...but like Spiderman who also has a type of telepathic power and also a tiny link to the plane...he can't access it because he's not a true telepath.
Originally posted by Bad Ash231
It's more complicated than that. Yes, Apocalypse can enter the Astral Plane through astral projection, but he needed Cable to teleport their PHYSICAL FORMS to the astral plane, a fairly impressive feat in and of itself...but one I don't think was ever supposed to be within Cable's power to do before. Kind of out of left field in regards to his level at the time.
In X-Factor he needed baby Cable to access the Astral Plane as well. 😬
Originally posted by ExodusCloak
If he manipulates the nervous system which the optical nerves are connected to then he can render himself invisible that way.If he can't read thoughts then he's not a true telepath.
He's manipulating peoples minds by manipulating their nervous system. He's not consciously controlling their thoughts. He's manipulating their biological functions via secondary means...while a telepath manipulates a persons functions directly at the source.
The Astral Plane is mental energy if you don't have direct control over mental then how are you supposed to access or manipulate the Astral Plane.
Well this is the thing it was described as limited telepathy and the word "read" was used so we could assume he doesnt just merely manipulate the nervous system. I dont know exactly how it works but I think they called it telepathy for a pupose. Bedlam can affect peoples nervous systems but his power are not described as telepathic. So we can assume there is a raeson for describing Mansluaghters powers as telepathic and not Bedlams.
So it seems affecting peoples minds does not neccesarily give you a classification as a telepath.
Originally posted by ExodusCloak
http://img147.imageshack.us/my.php?image=xmen07722um8.jpgI'm sure he'd have some tiny link to the Astral Plane...but like Spiderman who also has a type of telepathic power and also a tiny link to the plane...he can't access it because he's not a true telepath.
How does Spiderman have any sort of telepathic ability? Well its like this if you have telepathic powers even if it not reading the mind you have access to mental energy, thoughts are mental energy in a more compliacted form so somebody like Manslaughter would have limited acess in theory.
P.S. Forget what I said about the word "read".
Originally posted by llagrok
What is more likely, Apocalypse mind-blasting Xavier or Xavier (with human durability) resisting an energy blast from a relatively powerful mutant?
Considering that only Apocalypses eyes glew red...it didn't look like he put much effort into it. And when you look at BoA Apocalypse energy attacks certainly seem to vary when he puts effort into it...eg scene with Havok in BoA.
Originally posted by Alfheim
Well this is the thing it was described as limited telepathy and the word "read" was used so we could assume he doesnt just merely manipulate the nervous system. I dont know exactly how it works but I think they called it telepathy for a pupose. Bedlam can affect peoples nervous systems but his power are not described as telepathic. So we can assume there is a raeson for describing Mansluaghters powers as telepathic and not Bedlams.So it seems affecting peoples minds does not neccesarily give you a classification as a telepath.
Like I said I don't know much of Manslaughter so I can't be 100% sure...but I assumed since you would know more about him since you're bringing the character up? Either way though...he'd be similar to spidey.(See below)
How does Spiderman have any sort of telepathic ability? Well its like this if you have telepathic powers even if it not reading the mind you have access to mental energy, thoughts are mental energy in a more compliacted form so somebody like Manslaughter would have limited acess in theory. [/B]
Look at the scan....Spidermans Spider sense is also telepathic like...his power was switched off during Psi-War...all telepathic-like characters on Marvel Earth were effected by Psi-War. Spiderman can't access the Astral Plane because he has a special type of telepathy.
He would be like Spidey in theory...
Either way though. There's little to suggest that Apocalypse uses telepathy apart from the Ozymandius incident where he looked at the "Tapestry in Ozymandius mind" and Zzzrak Scan. And his more recent appearances suggest that he doesn't when you consider that Ozymandius managed to hide things from his master.
You'd think a character like Apocalypse would have more telepathic feats then that? And less ambiguous ones to say the least. As said before Emma Frost has demonstrated Telekinesis more times then Apocalypse and his telepathy. Even Magneto has more concrete instances with telepathy then Apocalypse.
You'd also think Exodus would have mentioned him in his Telepathic Ranking. Since Apocalypse is the one who augmented him and all.
Originally posted by ExodusCloak
X-Factor #68 where he was hooked up to a machine. An avatar of him fought Jean on the Astral Plane, he was merged with Baby Cable...Scott and Jean defeated him.
That wasn't him.
It was the techno organic virus in the form of Apocalypse.
Originally posted by ExodusCloak
Considering that only Apocalypses eyes glew red...it didn't look like he put much effort into it.
Apoc's energy blasts in the issue were blue...
I still don't see why it wasn't a mind blast. Considering Apocalypse's eyes glow at all....
Originally posted by ExodusCloak
Considering that only Apocalypses eyes glew red...it didn't look like he put much effort into it. And when you look at BoA Apocalypse energy attacks certainly seem to vary when he puts effort into it...eg scene with Havok in BoA.
You mean when Apocalypse was depowered?
Originally posted by Bad Ash231
That wasn't him.It was the techno organic virus in the form of Apocalypse.
He was organically linked to Baby Cable before though. Meh...either way though even in the Onslaught Saga Apocalypse didn't demonstrate anything telepathic on that Astral Plane. Cable was the one who refered to all the advantages he had on the Astral Plane being a telepath and all...not one time did they mention that Apocalypse had the same advantages.
Apoc's energy blasts in the issue were blue...
He created a blue energy field when he was merging with Nate Grey....that wasn't his energy blast.
I still don't see why it wasn't a mind blast. Considering Apocalypse's eyes glow at all....
The Zzzrak...and the fact that Jean Grey had her hands up as if she was trying to block her face from the yellow blast.
Originally posted by llagrok
You mean when Apocalypse was depowered?
That doesn't change the fact that Apocalypse didn't put much effort into the blast.
I'll ask you your question in reverse...how does a character as old as Apocalypse have telepathy when he's hardly demonstrated any concrete telepathy on panel? Two instances...one of which is ambiguous. While a character like Sinister who appears less then Apocalypse has TK and TP listed in his OHOTMU bio..and has been called a telepath on panel and has demonstrated TP on panel is? It doesn't make any sense.
BTW So would you consider Emma a telekinetic?
Originally posted by ExodusCloak
That doesn't change the fact that Apocalypse didn't put much effort into the blast.
How could Apoc have projected an energy blast at Xavier? There was a force field around him...
Originally posted by ExodusCloak
I'll ask you your question in reverse...how does a character as old as Apocalypse have telepathy when he's hardly demonstrated any concrete telepathy on panel? Two instances...one of which is ambiguous.
Here he looks like possibly mind controlling one of his creatures and talking through it to Exodus...
Originally posted by Bad Ash231
How could Apoc have projected an energy blast at Xavier? There was a force field around him...
It's his force field though so he could control it however he wants to control it...and they don't show you the field when they show his eye go red..or his hand for that matter
Here he looks like possibly mind controlling one of his creatures and talking through it to Exodus...
[/B]
He's deflecting Jeans Greys attack back at her..
But I'll concede to the Lackey...one...that does look like he's speaking through the monster....so he does have some type of telepathy then. But it's limited...and he hardly ever uses it. The Zzraak thing still doesn't look like a mind blast though. And they seem to have forgotten about his telepathy as well. And for some reason he can't access the Astral Plane.
Originally posted by ExodusCloak
He's deflecting Jeans Greys attack back at her..
Uh, doesn't that show a psionic ability?
Originally posted by ExodusCloak
The Zzraak thing still doesn't look like a mind blast though.
Originally posted by ExodusCloak
And they seem to have forgotten about his telepath as well.
"They"?
Originally posted by ExodusCloak
And for some reason he can't access the Astral Plane.
I haven't really seen anything that says he can't.... 😬
Originally posted by Bad Ash231
[b]Uh, doesn't that show a psionic ability?[b]
He deflected Havoks and Storms energy attacks back at them...in this particular case its not actual telepathy. Oh and Apocalypse had TK so I never said he didn't have psionic abilities.
What's wrong with the sound zzraak?
Mindblasts don't make that sound...that sounds like an energy blast. Zzraak sounds like someone was shocked with a low dosage of static electricity. We aren't shown apocalypses hands when his eyes glow...or his body or his field...so it could be a energy blast...especially when you consider that the blast connected with Xaviers upper body not just his head.
"They"?
Writers.
I haven't really seen anything that says he can't.... 😬
The instance with Cable...he took them to the Astral Plane first...then they went to Onslaughts realm where telepathy was turned solid...or something along those lines. Also Apocalypses reaction to the Astral Plane seemed like he has never been there before.
Originally posted by ExodusCloak
He deflected Havoks and Storms energy attacks back at them...in
...a What If issue...
And Jean Grey outright stated that she attacked his mind.
Originally posted by ExodusCloak
Mindblasts don't make that sound...
What sounds do they make?
Originally posted by ExodusCloak
Apocalypses reaction to the Astral Plane seemed like he has never been there before.
He said "Glorious, is it not?" like he had seen it before...
Originally posted by Bad Ash231
[B]...a What If issue...And Jean Grey outright stated that she attacked his mind.
And then he deflected her pink energy back at her. Like Xmarks said at the beginning of the thread that doesn't show telepathy. He deflected her energy back at her. That particular instance doesn't show telepathy.
What sounds do they make?
They don't make sounds.
He said "Glorious, is it not?" like he had seen it before...
He's praising the damage Onslaught caused.
Here:
Apocalypse needed Cable to take him to the Astral Plane..
The Narrative says that only a select few of telepaths can access the Astral(Which is actually the majority of X-telepaths, in this particular case Apocalypse was an exception.) This was down to Cable. Apocalypse needed Cable for this...
From the Astral Plane they access Onslaughts physical Citadel
Originally posted by ExodusCloak
And then he deflected her pink energy back at her. Like Xmarks said at the beginning of the thread that doesn't show telepathy. He deflected her energy back at her. That particular instance doesn't show telepathy.
So, someone like Spider-Man could "deflect" Jean Grey's "energy" back at her?
Originally posted by ExodusCloak
They don't make sounds.
Neither was Apoc's energy blast here... shock
http://img134.imageshack.us/my.php?image=xmen05185en1.jpg
Originally posted by ExodusCloak
The Narrative says that only a select few of telepaths can access the Astral(Which is actually the majority of X-telepaths, in this particular case Apocalypse was an exception.) This was down to Cable.
Sure...
Since it was a Cable issue...
Anyway, Jeph Loeb probably wasn't aware that Apocalypse had capacity of Telepathy...
Originally posted by Bad Ash231I wasn'taware of spiderman's ability to deflect energy.
So, someone like Spider-Man could "deflect" Jean Grey's "energy" back at her?
Originally posted by Bad Ash231Do you have anything to prove that he can access the Astral Plane?
Sure...Since it was a Cable issue...
Anyway, Jeph Loeb probably wasn't aware that Apocalypse had capacity of Telepathy...
