Apocalypse' Telepathy.

Originally posted by Bad Ash231
So, someone like Spider-Man could "deflect" Jean Grey's "energy" back at her?

Nope...but seeing as how Apocalypse is a Telekinetic and the energies are similar (eg Emma blocking TK with her TP) then it seems plausable...

Sure...

Since it was a Cable issue...

Anyway, Jeph Loeb probably wasn't aware that Apocalypse had capacity of Telepathy... [/B]

To be fair to Loeb...if that X-Factor Jean can hurt Apocalypse telepathically...to the stage where he's weakening...then that says a lot about his telepathy.

Originally posted by ExodusCloak
Nope...but seeing as how Apocalypse is a Telekinetic and the energies are similar (eg Emma blocking TK with her TP) then it seems plausable...

So, Apocalypse can block Telepathy... with Telekinesis?

Originally posted by Creshosk
Do you have anything to prove that he can access the Astral Plane?

There's really no proof he can't.

He needed Cable to teleport their PHYSICAL FORMS to the astral plane. Which is a different matter...

Originally posted by Creshosk
To be fair to Loeb...if that X-Factor Jean can hurt Apocalypse telepathically...to the stage where he's weakening...then that says a lot about his telepathy.

Wait, what?

Originally posted by Bad Ash231
There's really no proof he can't.

He needed Cable to teleport their PHYSICAL FORMS to the astral plane. Which is a different matter...

That's why the default is the negative. Now then, do you have any proof that he CAN.

Originally posted by Bad Ash231
[B]So, Apocalypse can block Telepathy... with Telekinesis?

He can deflect her psionic energy, back at her. She used her psionic energy to apply pressure onto his mind. He can deflect energy...I assume that's how he managed to deflect her attack back at her...whatever it was he deflected her attack back at her. That particular instance doesn't demonstrate telepathy I'm afraid.

There's really no proof he can't.

He needed Cable to teleport their PHYSICAL FORMS to the astral plane. Which is a different matter...

He needed Cable to transport him to the Astral Plane...so they could access a pathway that would lead them to Onslaughts Solidified Telepathy Citadel undetected. Where are you getting this physical form thing from? See the New X-Men Nuff said issue and X-Men 77 and 78...people usually look solid when the access the Astral Plane.

If they weren't phyiscally on the astral plane, how do you explain the part with the Invisible Woman?

Also, I have to say that your explanations against Apocalypse's telepathy are pretty rediculous and far fetched. It's like you're desperately trying to find some other solution.

Originally posted by llagrok
If they were on the astral plane, how do you explain the part with the Invisible Woman?

Cable brought her along and telepathically cloaked her from Apocalypse,

This is the Astral Plane:

http://img502.imageshack.us/my.php?image=cable03510wl3.jpg

From the Astral Plane they accessed Onslaughts Citadel Undetected..
This is outside the Astral Plane(As the panel states) where the IW reveals herself.

http://img142.imageshack.us/my.php?image=cable03514nx9.jpg

Originally posted by ExodusCloak
He needed Cable to transport him to the Astral Plane...so they could access Onslaughts Citadel undetected. Where are you getting this physical form thing from? See the New X-Men Nuff said issue and X-Men 77 and 78...people usually look solid when the access the Astral Plane.

Someone at HeroChat actually told me.

And people have access to their powers at the Astral Plane?

Apocalypse showed firing energy blasts and Invisible Women used her shields...

And in what issue was this:

Originally posted by ExodusCloak
To be fair to Loeb...if that X-Factor Jean can hurt Apocalypse telepathically...to the stage where he's weakening...then that says a lot about his telepathy.

Originally posted by ExodusCloak
Cable brought her along and telepathically cloaked her from Apocalypse,

This is the Astral Plane:

http://img502.imageshack.us/my.php?image=cable03510wl3.jpg

From the Astral Plane they accessed Onslaughts Citadel Undetected..
This is outside the Astral Plane(As the panel states) where the IW reveals herself.

http://img142.imageshack.us/my.php?image=cable03514nx9.jpg

Not the part I was referring to but....

Originally posted by Bad Ash231
[B]Someone at HeroChat actually told me.

And people have access to their powers at the Astral Plane?

Apocalypse showed firing energy blasts and Invisible Women used her shields...

Psychics usually do...non-telepaths usually don't. They were not on the Astral Plane when the IW and Apocalypse were firing blasts.

http://img142.imageshack.us/my.php?image=cable03514nx9.jpg
Look at the scan...Onslaughts Citadel is outside the Astral Plane.

And in what issue was this:

The scan you posted..the one where he deflected her energy back at her.

Originally posted by llagrok
Not the part I was referring to but....

You're refering to the part where they enter Onslaughts Citadel to rescue Franklin right?

Onslaughts Citadel is outside the Astral Plane as the scan states.

http://img142.imageshack.us/my.php?image=cable03514nx9.jpg

That was a weakened Apocalypse that had been woken up too early. Not to mention Mr. Sinister had poisoned him with a plague.

How can you take someone into the astral plane and physically move them without physically taking them into the astral plane?

Originally posted by llagrok
How can you take someone into the astral plane and physically move them without physically taking them into the astral plane?

Originally posted by Creshosk
You can go into the astral plane non-physically and do battle that results in physical damage to the body. Its how Xavier lost use of his legs one time when the Shadow King crushed his legs.

Yeah, because you damage someone's nerve center or something. That actually makes sense, you receive physical injuries.

However, how do you physically MOVE someone into a fortress that can only be accessed through the astral plane, without physically moving into the astral plane?

Originally posted by llagrok
Yeah, because you damage someone's nerve center or something. That actually makes sense, you receive physical injuries.

However, how do you physically MOVE someone into a fortress that can only be accessed through the astral plane, without physically moving into the astral plane?

I'm not following. Cable took Apocalypse onto the Astral Plane for two pages...they both were solid. We're saying that Apocalypse needed someone to access the Astral Plane...just like Storm needs someone to access the Astral Plane. Shadow King forced Storm and Cecilia Reyes onto the Astral Plane they both were solid and free to move on it. They both just didn't have their powers and were helpless. When Sinister was attacking Jeans mind during the Inferno all the non-psychics were all solid and free to move, they just didn't have their powers. Psylocke was the only useful one.

Originally posted by ExodusCloak
I'm not following. Cable took Apocalypse onto the Astral Plane for two pages...they both were solid. We're saying that Apocalypse needed someone to access the Astral Plane...just like Storm needs someone to access the Astral Plane. Shadow King forced Storm and Cecilia Reyes onto the Astral Plane they both were solid and free to move on it. They both just didn't have their powers and were helpless. When Sinister was attacking Jeans mind during the Inferno all the non-psychics were all solid and free to move, they just didn't have their powers. Psylocke was the only useful one.

They couldn't enter Onslaught's fortress without entering the astral plane.

How did they move their physical bodies into his fortress, without moving their physical bodies into the astral plane? I've never seen anyone use their powers like that on the astral plane anyways, I could be wrong about that.

Originally posted by llagrok
They couldn't enter Onslaught's fortress without entering the astral plane.

How did they move their physical bodies into his fortress, without moving their physical bodies into the astral plane? I've never seen anyone use their powers like that on the astral plane anyways, I could be wrong about that.

Huh? 😕 They were standing outside Onslaughts Citadel at the beginning of the issue before they even entered the Astral Plane. They could have entered it head on...but they would have been caught.
The idea behind entering the Astral Plane was to enter his fortress undetected as Apocalypse said. But as shown below they failed...they were noticed the moment they entered Onslaughts fortress.

Onslaughts Citadel is located "Outside the Astral Plane"

Onslaughts Citadel was unique in the sense that...it was built out of Solidified Telepathic Energy and could be accessed both from the Physical Realm and The Astral Realm. It was lying in an inbetween...that's presumbly how Susan and Apocalypse could use their powers in their as that inbetween realm consisted of solidified thought... I mean Onslaught in his citadel created solid thought manifestations of the Hulk and Magneto...I'm not entirely sure how that worked...
When Onslaught throws them out, they land back in the same place they started:

Originally posted by ExodusCloak
It's his force field though so he could control it however he wants to control it...and they don't show you the field when they show his eye go red..or his hand for that matter

His force field?

If he could control it, then he would have sealed the hole Cable caused...

Originally posted by ExodusCloak
We aren't shown apocalypses hands when his eyes glow...or his body or his field...so it could be a energy blast...especially when you consider that the blast connected with Xaviers upper body not just his head.

Maybe we're specifically shown Apocalypse's eye because he does not project an attack from his hands? ermm The entire page shows Apocalypse not lifting a finger in any panel because he's busy merging with Nate Grey.

The ONLY time Apocalypse was shown firing an energy blast from his hand, was after Cable had breached a hole in the field, and he blasted Jean away with, apparently (according to you) telekinesis.

Originally posted by Bad Ash231
His force field?

If he could control it, then he would have sealed the hole Cable caused...

That's assuming the force-field is meant to block outgoing energy...I could ask the same thing in reverse...how did psionic energy manage to exit the field? Maybe the field actually allows outgoing energy?

The point of the machine was meant to transfer the energies of the twelve and Nate Grey into Apocalypse. That generated the field. Maybe he was too busy sucking the energy out of Nate Grey..the X-Men kept on attacking him and the field. He was trying to hurry on the procedure. The field started to diminish as the procedure was nearing completetion. Either way the point is moot...because in both our theories energy has to leave the field.

Maybe we're specifically shown Apocalypse's eye because he does not project an attack from his hands? ermm The entire page shows Apocalypse not lifting a finger in any panel because he's busy merging with Nate Grey.

The ONLY time Apocalypse was shown firing an energy blast from his hand, was after Cable had breached a hole in the field, and he blasted Jean away with, apparently (according to you) telekinesis. [/B]

Or maybe not...or he shot something from his eyes...or he hit Xavier with telekinesis...or he he generated a surge from his body...there's an endless amount of speculation that could be made but:

How would you explain the position of Jeans arms(Shielding herself from the impact) from Apocalypse blast at Xavier if it was a mental blast?

http://static.mojefotke.si/1ddaf62cdef62ccb2b33fc87e80c52a32887b5f7.JPG

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