Effects...just "icing" on the cake? (or) not comparable to playing Bach?

You expect us to answer your questions when you are literally dodging every question thrown at you?

Laughable.

Answer mine first, then I'll answer yours:

Could you write a song if I gave you JUST a pedal, with no guitar? Take a pedal into a room and write a song? Could you?

Question 2: When will you upload your music? You should do so, seeing as you keep calling everyone musically disinclined and claim you know about music.

Nobody reply until he's answered, otherwise he'll have reason to keep dodging.

-AC

AC...I think you're losing it.

I NEVER said I can write a whole song with a pedal, and I ALREADY SAID THAT...ARE YOU SERIOUS? I've ALWAYS been talking about PARTS of songs.

Either GET SERIOUS OR LEAVE because you're just being an annoying little pest again....

Originally posted by EPIIIBITES
We're talking about the PART...the guitar PART. And we're talking about writing PARTS for songs, and if those PARTS are what they are because of the playing of the instrument or because of the effects. And I said if you use an effect like multi-delay creatively enough, you can write the PART you want with it, and be musical with it, and be creative with it, and ESSENTIALLY be using it like an instrument (more so than the simple strummed chord you played on the guitar). I'm not saying you'd make the whole song!! Where does your reasoning come from? Seriously!

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
When will you upload your music?

AC, please get out of this thread. You're just being a pest. Seriously.

Why would you assume I have music that I could easily share, or even want to share with YOU of all people?

Well, I don't actually think you do assume that realy ...I think you're just being a pest.

Originally posted by EPIIIBITES
Just to clear 2D...the discussion started from this...

-"The effect itself won't make the song sound cool, how you use it will."

-"I know effects are not 'doing all the work' effects are 'icing on the cake'. Who cares if you have shit music and all the effects pedals (and can use them) in the world?"

So how was I supposed to get anything "song" out of that?

But whatever...it SEEMS we are in agreement now as to what's what.

So...now...how about the second part of the discussion 2D? The part about Depeche Mode, or whatever.

Originally posted by EPIIIBITES
AC...I think you're losing it.

I NEVER said I can write a song with a pedal...ARE YOU SERIOUS? I've ALWAYS been talking about PARTS of songs.

Then how does it create anything? It alters music, it doesn't create. Ergo; Tool, not instrument.

It alters music, doesn't create. All you respond saying is "I disagree.", once again proving that because you choose to not differentiate, that's "how it is.". You're wrong, and you're a terrible debate participant that this entire forum could do without.

Originally posted by EPIIIBITES
Either GET SERIOUS OR LEAVE because you're just being an annoying little pest again....
How would I do that considering it's not on an electronic medium.

AC, please get out of here. You're just being a pest. Seriously.

Why would you assume I have music that I could easily share, or even want to share with YOU of all people?

Well, I don't actually think you do assume thatrealy ...I think you're just being a pest.

Because you're swanning around accusing us of being musically disinclined, suggesting you know what it takes to write music, and the rest involved, it would only be fair that you either shut up making assumptions, or prove to us that you're not talking bullshit.

I think you KNOW you don't write or play, so you're covering your tracks by saying "I can't prove it.".

Don't tell us we're not inclined, then say you are, if you cannot prove it. It's rude, it's insulting and it has absolutely nothing to do with this debate.

Now to your request: What is a synthesizer?

Do you mean, what is it catagorised as, or literally what does it do? I can answer both, I just want to be sure which you're asking.

-AC

AC...answer my question or leave...what's a synthesizer? Is it an instrument?

A) Who are you to tell me to leave? Nobody wants you here. It took me PAGES to get you to answer.

B) Obviously you didn't read my post, I was trying to clarify your question.

Yes, it's an instrument. It's a musical instrument that you use to create music, notes or tones.

-AC

Well I think it's an instrument....but according to you it shouldn't REALLY be an instrument...it's just something that's manipulated a sound.

A lot of synths would just take samples and recordings of actual piano notes and use filters to create its sounds. They couldn't be there if it wasn't for the piano. So what you're doing is essentially using a sound that's been manipulated from the original instrument (what YOU say are effects with a guitar...using sound that's being manipulated from an instrument). BUT THAT'S WHAT A SYNTH IS AC.

But I, ME, I think a synth is an instrument...and I think ANYTHING that makes a sound and has something you can turn, push, or press can be used as an instrument (if used creatively enough).

YOU don't.

It's easy AC. You can play a simple note on a guitar, and now that note has been captured with the effects unit or whatever you're using (basically what's happened with a synth and its original piano sound...that's the process)...and then you can modify the guitar sound in real time to change its pitch, or change its rythm, or do a BILLION things to it that constitue writing or creating music.

So YOU'RE WRONG. YOU'RE DEAD WRONG. Because you don't know what constitues making music.

Originally posted by EPIIIBITES
Well I think it's an instrument....but according to you it shouldn't REALLY be an instrument...it's just something that's manipulated a sound.

Don't start this bs again. "According to you...", no, according to your interpretation of what I'm saying. For the love of the forum, don't start that again.

Synths can be used to create (Not JUST alter.) music, ergo; They are instruments.

Originally posted by EPIIIBITES
A lot of synths would just take samples and recordings of actual piano notes and use filters to create its sounds. They couldn't be there if it wasn't for the piano. So what you're doing is essentially using a sound that's been manipulated from the original instrument (what YOU say are effects with a guitar...using sound that's being manipulated from an instrument). BUT THAT'S WHAT A SYNTH IS AC.

I've used a synth, I know what they are, and there are many kinds of synths. Some that are tools, used primarily and only for manipulation, some that CREATE the actual notes and sounds, you should know this.

Apply the knowledge as needed. If it creates, it's an instrument. If you cannot make music with it, it's not an instrument. Can you make music with synths or certain synths? Yes.

Originally posted by EPIIIBITES
But I, ME, I think ia synth is an instrument...I think anything that makes a sound and has something you can turn, push, or press can be used as an instrument.

Something that makes and sound AND has something you can turn, push or press? Pedals don't make sounds. Vocoders do not make sounds.

Originally posted by EPIIIBITES
YOU don't.

If it cannot create sounds, if it cannot be used to create music, it's not a musical instrument.

THAT is what I'm saying. Do not get into the "You think...you say." again, EP.

Originally posted by EPIIIBITES
It's easy AC. You can play a simple note on a guitar, and now that note has been captured with the effects unit or whatever you're using (basically what's happened with a synth and its original piano sound)...and then you can modify the guitar sound in real time to change its pitch, or change its rythm, or do a BILLION things to it that constitue writing or creating music.

The GENERAL PROCESS is creating music, the pedal is NOT creating anything. YOU do not make a distinction between the two, that is not our problem, that's YOUR ineptitude. It's not creating anything.

It's not creating an altered sound, it's altering an existing one.

Originally posted by EPIIIBITES
So YOU'RE WRONG. YOU'RE DEAD WRONG. Because you don't know what constitues making music.

Do you? Can you prove it? No.

I know what constitutes making music, EP. Once again, nobody here is agreeing with you, everyone is disagreeing with your initial point, but because you do not see beyond "This is what I believe, this is how it is.", you are an idiot in debates.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Because you're swanning around accusing us of being musically disinclined, suggesting you know what it takes to write music, and the rest involved, it would only be fair that you either shut up making assumptions, or prove to us that you're not talking bullshit.

Don't tell us we're not inclined, then say you are, if you cannot prove it.

I said YOU.

Originally posted by EPIIIBITES
What's this "us", "we" stuff?

I said YOU.

And I said you.

You are not musically inclined. There. You are not musically inclined, I can tell from your posts.

Are you going to prove me wrong? No? Then stop making claims. First rule of debating: Do not say things simply to back yourself up but cannot prove.

Being inclined or disinclined has NOTHING to do with this discussion and it's rude, insulting and discourteous of you to bring such a thing up in a debate. Prove you write and compose music or stop bringing it up.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Pedals don't make sounds. Vocoders do not make sounds.
.

I said effects units CAN be used as instruments if they are used creatively and innovatively enough, and not simply slapped on...and they can be used as instruments once the sound from the guitar or the voice has been captured.

OBVIOUSLY a guitar is an instrument...and even a mouth is an instrument...but then an effects pedal or a vocoder can also be USED...USED as an instrument because you can be creative with IT, melodic with IT, rhythmic with IT, apart from what might have been initlialy done simply by playing a single guitar note or saying some words.

How about another question AC...WHAT'S A TRUMPET? ISN'T IT AN INSTRUMENT?

You make a sound with your mouth (LIKE IN A VOCODER) and then you use IT TO MAKE SOUNDS!!!

The sound that you're making with your mouth (an instrument in itself), is being manipulated (LIKE WITH A VOCODER) by the buttons and sliders on a trumpet.

SO A TRUMPET IS AN INSTRUMENT AND A VOCODER ISN'T?

Get it through you're head...You're WRONG!

Stop arguing, because you're WRONG!

I just PROVED... you're WRONG!

Originally posted by EPIIIBITES
I said effects units CAN be used as instruments if they are used creatively and innovatively enough, and not simply slapped on...and they can be used as instruments once the sound from the guitar or the voice has been captured.

But...that's all you can do with a pedal, step on it. Ohh, but you probably didn't know that. Pedals and vocoders NEVER make sounds, ever. So how CAN they SOMETIMES be instruments? Oh, because you lack the ability to make the distinction between an instrument and a tool.

Originally posted by EPIIIBITES
OBVIOUSLY a guitar is an instrument...and even a mouth is an instrument...but then an effects pedal or a vocoder can also be used as an instrument because you can be creative with IT, melodic with IT, rhythmic with IT, apart from just doing something initlaly simple with the guitar or mouth.

Yes, so that means it's just a useful additional tool, it's not an instrument, you cannot create music with it.

Originally posted by EPIIIBITES
How about another question AC...WHAT'S A TRUMPET? ISN'T IT AN INSTRUMENT?

You make a sound with your mouth (LIKE IN A VOCODER) to SO IT CAN MAKE A SOUND!!!

The sound that you're making with your mouth (an instrument in itself), is being manipulated (LIKE WITH A VOCODER) by the buttons and sliders on a trumpet.

You can write music for a trumpet, you cannot write music for a vocoder. Trumpets do not alter existing music, they make the music sounds, vocoders do not, pedals do not.

You've never actually seen an instrument before have you? Let alone composed music.

Originally posted by EPIIIBITES
SO A TRUMPET IS AN INSTRUMENT AND A VOCODER ISN'T?

Get it through you're head...YOU'RE WRONG!!!

If I gave you a trumpet, you COULD (Not you, but someone who plays trumpet.) write music for it and create music WITH it.

If I gave you a vocoder, could you write a song USING the vocoder? No, you'd write music using the voice, and the vocoder would alter it.

Simple.

Question: Have you EVER heard anyone say "I play the mic."?

I best copy that, I have a feeling I'll have to paste it a lot.

-AC

AC...I just proved you're wrong. You got nothing. You NEVER did.

Is that all you've got left?

Have you EVER heard anyone say "I play the mic."?.

-AC

You are so incredibly, incredibly nonsnesical.

That's seriously your question? Seriously.

Well AC...The difference is, a mic itself (and not talking about anything you can add to it), just amplifies the voice...it doesn't have buttons you can push, knobs you can turn, things you can press, and it doesn't have BUILT IN filters such as delay, flange, etc...therefore you couldn't use it as an intrument.

What a silly silly question.

But if it did have all that stuff I mentioned...then it'd be a vocoder...and it could be used like an instrument.

Wow...i can't believe I actually had to just exaplain that.

AC. You're WRONG!. If a TRUMPET is an intstrument, then a VOCODER is an instrument. It's the same thing.

You shot yourslef in the foot, and you're dead wrong.

I'll post this again...might help you to read it once more.

Originally posted by EPIIIBITES
You make a sound with your mouth (LIKE IN A VOCODER) and then you use THE TRUMPET TO MAKE IT A DIFFERENT SOUND!!!

With a trumpet, the sound that you're making with your mouth (an instrument in itself), is being manipulated (LIKE WITH A VOCODER) by the buttons and sliders on a trumpet.

SO A TRUMPET IS AN INSTRUMENT AND A VOCODER ISN'T?

Hey AC...By the way...you're dead wrong.

Oh yeah and AC...I play the trumpet too.

BAGPIPES...another example. Or a didgeridoo.

What's the real difference between a vocoder and a didge?

Not a heck of a lot is there AC?

Yet AC maintains a vocoder can't be used an instrument.

Silliness

ANYTHING that can contain sound either physically or electronically can be used as an instrument if there's buttons, knobs or whatever to press, push etc...as long of course it's done in a creative and innovative way

Originally posted by EPIIIBITES
Well AC...The difference is, a mic itself (and not talking about anything you can add to it), just amplifies the voice...it doesn't have buttons you can push, knobs you can turn, things you can press, and it doesn't have BUILT IN filters such as delay, flange, etc...therefore you couldn't use it as an intrument.

Yes, you can actually edit microphones, but more importantly:

Does it make music? Does a microphone make music?

Originally posted by EPIIIBITES
But if it did have all that stuff I mentioned...then it'd be a vocoder...and it could be used like an instrument.

LIKE AN...not ACTUALLY one, because it does not CREATE music.

So...it's NOT an instrument, it's an additional tool.

Originally posted by EPIIIBITES
AC. You're WRONG!. If a TRUMPET is an intstrument, then a VOCODER is an instrument. It's the same thing.

You can write music specifically using a trumpet.

Can you write songs using a vocoder? Can you CREATE music with the vocoder itself?

You can with a trumpet, an instrument you can write, create and perform music for. Can you with a vocoder? No, you can't. You create and write for the voice, you write the vocal lines, melody lines, vocal notes, then if you WISH, you can alter them with a vocoder.

You do not CREATE with a vocoder, you ALTER with a vocoder.

Originally posted by EPIIIBITES
You shot yourslef in the foot, and you're dead wrong.

It won't be true if you keep saying it. You have to prove it, and it won't be true if you keep saying "I've proven it." either.

Originally posted by EPIIIBITES
[B]BAGPIPES...another example. Or a didgeridoo.

What's the real difference between a vocoder and a dig?

Not a heck of a lot is there AC?

Yet AC maintains a vocoder can't be used an instrument.

Silliness [/B]

Hahaha, panic boy. Stop refering to me as "AC" in that person perspective. You're not talking to anybody else.

Secondly, you can write music for bagpipes, CREATE music with bagpipes.

You cannot create with a vocoder. If I sent you into a room with bagpipes, a trumpet and a vocoder, you could only CREATE with bagpipes and trumpet. They are not altering already existing music, they are CREATING it. The VOICE creates the music, the vocoder ALTERS it.

Do you understand? Or shall I open paint and draw you a picture in bright colours?

-AC

AC. I'm afraid I don't have any respect for your opinion on this stuff.

And I also don't have respect for your weak tactics either:

"If I gave you a trumpet, you COULD...create music WITH it.

If I gave you a vocoder, could you write a song USING the vocoder?"

So I have to write a SONG with a vocoder, and just MAKE MUSIC music with a trumpet.

Wow. Nice ultimatum!

You're great (and most importantly, fair) at this stuff.

But to answer in the only way that could be answered, I COULD make music with a vocoder. I just grab it and talk into it...the MUSICALITY can come from the VOCODER, not necessarily the voice (which could simply be just TALKING).

You've lost. Face it.

Originally posted by EPIIIBITES
AC. I'm afraid I don't have any respect for your opinion on this stuff.

To quote Gloria Gaynor: I will survive.

Originally posted by EPIIIBITES
And I also don't have respect for your weak tactics either:

I'm sure I'll sleep.

Originally posted by EPIIIBITES
But to answer in the only way that could be answered, I COULD make music with a vocoder. I just grab it and talk into it...the MUSICALITY can come from the VOCODER, not necessarily the voice (which could simply be just TALKING).

No, your VOICE is making the sound, the vocoder is altering it. Speaking into it, singing into it, your VOICE is creating that, the vocoder is altering it.

The vocoder is not creating sound, it's altering it.

Originally posted by EPIIIBITES
You've lost. Face it.

Is that all you've got?

-AC