I don't see how that is the case. Count Dooku was about 70 when he submitted himself to the Dark Side and became "an even greater Sith Lord" as opposed to a Jedi. Yoda is 800 years old and submits himself to become the late Qui-Gon's apprentice, in which case he learns a technique that makes him "far more powerful than we can possibly imagine" to quote Obi-Wan.
Knowledge = technique. Technique refines potential power, and increases efficiency and strength in execution of power, making one a much more dangerous. Palpatine himself says in Dark Empire that he - like Luke - has grown "stronger" in the Force since they've last met, and Palpatine was about 83 in RotJ.
So... really... you'd need to provide some proof about that assertion.
I don't see how that is the case. Count Dooku was about 70 when he submitted himself to the Dark Side and became "an even greater Sith Lord" as opposed to a Jedi.
right, so dookus greatness as a sith lord eclipsed his greatness as a jedi...
that has... what to do with fulfilling your potential in the force?
Yoda is 800 years old and submits himself to become the late Qui-Gon's apprentice, in which case he learns a technique that makes him "far more powerful than we can possibly imagine" to quote Obi-Wan.
powerful in what context? certainly not the context were arguing in here, given the technique ur referring to (becoming a spirit) wouldnt have actually had any relation on his current power level
not really sure what point u were trying to make here gideon
Knowledge = technique. Technique refines potential power,
which counts for nothing once uve already reached your full potential
and increases efficiency and strength in execution of power, making one a much more dangerous.
never denied that, however technically speaking, it doesnt actually increase your power
sure, in the context of these versus battles, de sidious would take his earlier incarnations in a force battle due to his greater knowledge and techniques at his disposal, and in that sense he is more powerful, but thats not the sense im dealing with here
when a statement like 'Vader is 80% of Sidious in power' is made, it doesnt take into account such factors as knowledge and intelligence, or how deadly sidious would be in a fight, but purely how powerful he was, thats actually pretty obvious
that was the only point i was making, u seem to have missed it
Palpatine himself says in Dark Empire that he - like Luke - has grown "stronger" in the Force since they've last met, and Palpatine was about 83 in RotJ.
prove palpatine was speaking on a technical level, because he could have just as easily been speaking about how the new force techniques he had learnt had made him more powerful in the sense that he would be more deadly in a combat scenario
So... really... you'd need to provide some proof about that assertion.
well lets see; darth maul, in the tpm novelisation, was stated to have already reached his full potential, and he was only 24
palpatine, with far superior darkside knowledge to work from, a greater learning ability (due to his super genius level of intelligence), and about triple the amount of time to train and study would surely have reached his full potential by aotc, given the facts above
prove palpatine was speaking on a technical level, because he could have just as easily been speaking about how the new force techniques he had learnt had made him more powerful in the sense that he would be more deadly in a combat scenario
No, this is where you're wrong. You were the one who made the assertion that Palpatine was in the "zenith" of his power; potential fulfilled. The burden of proof is on you; you've yet to prove anything, but rather try to debunk my argument. Palpatine said that he grew "stronger" in the Force. Not "learned some nifty new techniques", but commented on his strength. In fact, nothing implies otherwise.
Welcome to the world of debating. When I get back, we'll deal with the other shit you posted. Have fun.
No, this is where you're wrong. You were the one who made the assertion that Palpatine was in the "zenith" of his power; potential fulfilled.
id advise that you learn how to read because i never once outright stated such a thing
if you actually payed attention, ud notice that i just brought up the possibility to go against a claim that jollyjim came up with
id suggest opening your eyes the next time you try and jump on one of my posts
The burden of proof is on you; you've yet to prove anything,
learn how to debate, i was simply just pointing out that jollyjims claim was inabsolute, nothing more to it
its not up to me to prove that his claim was absolutely without question wrong
but rather try to debunk my argument.
yeah, i really didnt have to try
Palpatine said that he grew "stronger" in the Force. Not "learned some nifty new techniques", but commented on his strength. In fact, nothing implies otherwise.
strength in the force is ambiguous
sometimes its used to describe potential, other times its used to describe ones current level of power
its not a stretch to assume that palpatine may have been speaking in regards to his rather large increase in knowledge, something that from a certain perspective would make him stronger with the force
Welcome to the world of debating. When I get back, we'll deal with the other shit you posted. Have fun.
lol, you hardcore sw geeks are cute when you try to act all badass, its real hilarious, looking forward to your reply
Palpatine said that he grew "stronger" in the Force
Palpatine said he grew stronger, but as far as i know, i think he was talking about his previous 83 years old self. Palpatine, since had all the knowledge from before and the same body he had, when reincarnated was automatically at full potential, and since vader killed him with 83 years old (he looks quite old), it's possible that his powers had started to decrease.
Yet, the fact is that AOTC and ROTS Palpatine is most likely stronger then ROTJ since he had 20 years less and had much time to train too, so DE Palpatine could be most likely on the level from AOTC and ROTS Palpatine in force power...
Originally posted by kamhalThats nonsense. Novels indicated that he studied the holocrons after the PT and that would equate to him getting stronger in the force, In the EU around the OT era he killed 50 storm troopers will a single blast of lightning and reduced 3 sith acolytes to ashes instantly.
Palpatine said he grew stronger, but as far as i know, i think he was talking about his previous 83 years old self. Palpatine, since had all the knowledge from before and the same body he had, when reincarnated was automatically at full potential, and since vader killed him with 83 years old (he looks quite old), it's possible that his powers had started to decrease.
Yet, the fact is that AOTC and ROTS Palpatine is most likely stronger then ROTJ since he had 20 years less and had much time to train too, so DE Palpatine could be most likely on the level from AOTC and ROTS Palpatine in force power...
And kamhal age wont weaken your strength in the force, vader luke palpatine and dooku are all old men yet they are still strong in the force.
And DE sidious is miles ahead of any other incarnation of sidious
Why is that? First, knowledge is not the same as force power. Dooku had more force knowledge then anakin but sidious himself said anakin was more powerful.
Then, yeah, i know sidious blasted 50 storm troopers but this doesn't show nothing, really. Who strong he was before? And after this? And which was his age? Also, i didn't say a 83 years old palpatine was weak, simple said he could be weaker then when he was at his best.
Who do you know that age wouldn't weaker your strength in the force? Vader said Obi-wan's powers were weak, yoda seems quite weak when he died too. Besides, i don't see in which DE Sidious could have gotten that strong from before.
Originally posted by kamhalAnakin is weaker in the force than dooku at that time despite having less knowledge but why anakin > dooku? Anakin has the greatest force potential of all force users
Why is that? First, knowledge is not the same as force power. Dooku had more force knowledge then anakin but sidious himself said anakin was more powerful.
And common sense points out that force users actually get stronger as time passes, provided they are doing it consistently which in this case sidious does, The visual guide already stated how DE sidious got so powerful and that is due to him studying holocrons. You cant raise your strength in the force like that, you got to learn something which is what sidious has been doing since the End of ROTS
Originally posted by kamhalIt does, and blasting 3 sith acolytes powerful enough to bring maul from the dead also speaks for his power
Then, yeah, i know sidious blasted 50 storm troopers but this doesn't show nothing,
Originally posted by kamhalThe fact is palpatine is stronger when he reached the OT, His lightning couldnt even killed an off guard mace windu during the PT
really. Who strong he was before? And after this? And which was his age? Also, i didn't say a 83 years old palpatine was weak, simple said he could be weaker then when he was at his best.
Originally posted by kamhalComplete and utter bullshit, Yoda was in a near death stage and obi wan lost strength in the force due to him not fighting for 20 years. And dooku is 80 years old yet he is described as being one of the strongest jedi in the PT while luke being 60 years old did impressive feats with the force, Yoda was 800 years old by the time the PT came yet he fought sidious head to head
Who do you know that age wouldn't weaker your strength in the force? Vader said Obi-wan's powers were weak, yoda seems quite weak when he died too. Besides, i don't see in which DE Sidious could have gotten that strong from before.
Bottom line is age doesnt weaken your strength in the force
Anakin is weaker in the force than dooku at that time despite having less knowledge but why anakin > dooku? Anakin has the greatest force potential of all force users
Sidious said to Grievous that "Soon i will have a new apprentice, one far younger and more powerful".
That's why dooku never used the force to beat anakin, because he couldn't...
Also, all you said is not ubber important, really, since you are comparing Windu with some acolytes or storm troopers. Besides, windu actually died and this don't proof that sidious' force lighting got stronger...
Tell me one thing, hadn't dooku said in the ROTS novelization that he was getting older and that his time to big fights was passing? I remember to read dooku's thoughts in which he pretty much admits that the age is getting on him. And he had the same age as sidious in ROTJ.
Also, we don't exactly know yoda's species, so yoda could naturally be able to live much time, whose ability was augumented by his huge connection with the force...
No offence but you indeed are an idiot
Originally posted by kamhalAnakin had more force potential than dooku hence why sidious chose him, And why the far younger part? Dooku is 83 years old. And he is going to die due tp his old age sooner or later and yet that didnt effect his connection to the force.
Sidious said to Grievous that "Soon i will have a new apprentice, one far younger and more [b]powerful".[/B]
Originally posted by kamhalCorrect, dooku couldnt use the force due to anakin constantly beating him with a lightsaber
That's why dooku never used the force to beat anakin, because he couldn't...
Originally posted by kamhalIt does, in the PT his lightning couldnt kill any body and in the EU it did,
Also, all you said is not ubber important, really, since you are comparing Windu with some acolytes or storm troopers. Besides, windu actually died and this don't proof that sidious' force lighting got stronger...
You are actually making the stupidest assumption of all that palpatine actually got weaker than he was at ROTS which absolutely has no proof to back up with nor can you even back up your arguements. Palpatine is a genius, he wouldnt allow his strength or skills to get rusty as time goes on. Vader got stronger in his state as time went by and as well as he ages, He didnt actually get weaker. Palpatine also grew stronger in the force as time went by for he was studying every aspect in the force.
The ultimate visual guide states how he became more powerful and guess what? It said he did through holocrons which is what he has been doing between the PT and OT
Originally posted by kamhalIf so please provide the quote,
Tell me one thing, hadn't dooku said in the ROTS novelization that he was getting older and that his time to big fights was passing? I remember to read dooku's thoughts in which he pretty much admits that the age is getting on him. And he had the same age as sidious in ROTJ.
Because and luke skywalker who is human also got old during the NJO era and LOTF era and guess what? He didnt lose strength in the force!
And big fights could refer to lightsaber dueling as dooku couldnt handle anakin. Please provide a better back up kamhal, No body evertakes you seriously. Palpatine was already beginning his quest to start
Originally posted by kamhalYou totally argued out of point,
Also, we don't exactly know yoda's species, so yoda could naturally be able to live much time, whose ability was augumented by his huge connection with the force...
You were rambling that people would get weaker in the force as they age which isnt the case as luke and yoda demonstrated to us, The fact that they can live long or not is not the damm point. Its the baseless assertion you were making
No offense but you are a truly *******.
Sidious said anakin was more powerful, point taken. Anything to arg? Second, you said sidious prefered anankin because he was younger since dooku was too old and could soon die. So, haven't yoda connection weakened when he was close to his death?
Besides, what i said is that when someone start getting REALLY old his connection may start weaken. Vader die in his 40's so his connection hadn't start weakened. Now someone like palpatine, who is an human and has like 86 yaers old (almost 90) it's natural that his connection may not have been as high as at least 10 years before...
Also, as i said, he don't know yoda's race and besides we see that, by the fact he survived 22 more years, he was not close to his death during ROTS for example. Also luke is like 60 years old so he also isn't close to his death...
By the way, did sidious' force lightning killed luke? Just to know...
About dooku i had to get the quote from swtimeline and it's dificult right now. I give you later.
Originally posted by kamhalDont attempt to parrot me muthafu*er You ARE what i described
No offense but you are a truly *******.
Originally posted by kamhalTrue, quit parroting me here
Sidious said anakin was more powerful, point taken. Anything to arg? Second, you said sidious prefered anankin because he was younger since dooku was too old and could soon die.
Originally posted by kamhalNope, 800 years old and he used the force better than people who were younger than him. When he was about to die he couldnt fully command the force due to him being physically WEAK, Not due to his age
So, haven't yoda connection weakened when he was close to his death?
Originally posted by kamhalMay huh? Seems even you arent convinced by your own arguements
Besides, what i said is that when someone start getting REALLY old his connection may start weaken.
Originally posted by kamhalAge doesnt determine your connection to the force unless you want to prove it.
Vader die in his 40's so his connection hadn't start weakened. Now someone like palpatine, who is an human and has like 86 yaers old (almost 90) it's natural that his connection may not have been as high as at least 10 years before...
Prove up or shut the hell up which you have yet to do either
Originally posted by kamhalSo huh now its close to death which so called weakens your connection to the force? Guess what? Sidious wasnt dying and his clone body was dying in DE and yet he still could pull out force storms.
Also, as i said, he don't know yoda's race and besides we see that, by the fact he survived 22 more years, he was not close to his death during ROTS for example. Also luke is like 60 years old so he also isn't close to his death...
Again age doesnt determine your strength in the force. If you are too weak to do so its because you are weak physically
Originally posted by kamhalSidious tortued luke, didnt even tried to kill him till vader stepped in
By the way, did sidious' force lightning killed luke? Just to know...
Originally posted by kamhalI say again :Big fights: could refer to saber dueling or the energy to go on fighting
About dooku i had to get the quote from swtimeline and it's dificult right now. I give you later.