Hmm... Tell me one thing guys: actually nihilus>sidious in the force? No. Ok, but he killed an entired planet right? So, what would you answer me? It's a technique that allow him to do that. Ok so, kun freezing the senate, who actually are a bunch of non-sensitive, it's also a technique. Because, besides that, kun did nothing really impressive with the force...
Originally posted by Borbarad
@jollyjim:
For the record: Kun's double blade had an almost regular sized hilt and he was wielding it one-handed. It's completely different from any other double-bladed lightsaber we've seen so far. Just for the record.
Can you remind me when Asajj ever used a double-bladed lightsaber versus Mace Windu. Which again wouldn't matter as Exar's double-bladed lightsaber is a completely unique weapon in the SW universe going by the regular hilt and by the way Kun was using it.
I don't see Mace simply owning Kun in a lightsaber fight.
Originally posted by Borbarad
I've quoted Kas'im's statement from POD on that topic already. He basically said that to counter the advantage of a double-bladed lightsaber you technically have to master it yourself. I didn't see Mace ever using that weapon or gaining much experience in fighting somebody armed with a weapon like that.
And I did just say that Kun uses a weapon which is unfamiliar for Mace, which would be an advantage. Vaapad ? You are talking about the fighting style ? We don't know how good that is in comparison to Kun's own unique fighting style. So I was assuming that Mace and Kun would both encounter an opponent with a unique way to wield his lightsaber - basically a draw in the advantage area. That leaves the Shatterpoint ability VS the double-blade. The point is that there has to be an exploitable Shatterpoint that Mace can find when trying to use that ability against Kun. And that begs for proof that there is something like that...
Can you remind me when Asajj ever used a double-bladed lightsaber versus Mace Windu. Which again wouldn't matter as Exar's double-bladed lightsaber is a completely unique weapon in the SW universe going by the regular hilt and by the way Kun was using it.
I don't see Mace simply owning Kun in a lightsaber fight.
@Lightsnake:Erm. You have written that each of the Senators was representing a system which was your mistake here. For example the Techno Union and the Banking Clan or the Trade Federation clearing represinting more than one world had only one senator each. 😉
Nope. Asking for proof that something is "unblockable" means that you asking him for proof that the beams can [b]not be blocked. Hence asking to proof a negative.
Excuse me lightsnake. That Sithspawn Kun ripped apart was pretty damn huge and going by the holes that beams were tearing they are as big as a regular sized room. By the same instance they are also pretty damn powerful if they can do that.
And going by that size I don't see anybody "dodging" them and I also doubt that a lightsaber would offer a viable protection against a beam with that size.
Yeah Lightsnake. Can you again remind me when Kun should have used the amulets again ? He simply didn't need to do so going by the fact that he pretty much owned everyone in the comics that tries to challenge him in direct confrontation - with the exception of Ulic.
And the "absence of speed" going by the fact how fast Ulic was cutting through the Naddist in TFNU
and the fact that Kun was a match for an even more powerful version of Ulic, I doubt that Mace would have much of a speed advantage. Virtually every Jedi in the SW universe seems to move at speeds not perceiveable with the raw eye.
They still reformed the Senate and the Republic during the Ruusan reformations. That's a fact. It doesn't matter if the Republic ended there or not.
How many "large corporation groups" were present 4,000 years before the PT ? I didn't see the Techno Union or the Banking Clan around, much less the Trade Federation. Going by KotoR there is only the Czerka Corporation (later known as Czerka Arms) and they operated on star-systems independently.
I wouldn't call a 20,000 year old institution "young" exactly. And you really don't want to tell me that they had 4,000 worlds in 4,000 BBY and then that number increased to several millions in that few millenia where no compareable increase of worlds was there before ? Right...
It's a good thing that the building is also simply called "Senate" so I'd like to see where you're getting that idea that it referred to the institution and not to the building. Not to mention that you were drawing those numbers from the number of repulsor lifts in the new Senate building where the old one was far bigger so most likely holding more people.
You're talking about the same Exar Kun who was capable of using force lightning, was capable of toasting Gantoris from the inside out, projected "snakes" consisting out of pure dark side energy that ripped Luke's spirit from his body and who force choked Luke's students all at once ? The same Kun who was called "the darkest power in the Galaxy" by the omniscient narrator ? The same Kun who helped Kyp Durron to raise the Sun Crusher from the gas giant (*hint* pressure *hint*) Yavin ?
I really don't see where Mace force abilities are exceeding that of Kun.
And a saber contest between them is also far away from having a certain winner considering they are both among the best duellist the Galaxy has seen so far.
Notice how I didn't state that Kun would "destroy" or "own" Mace...I basically said "possible defeat him after a long fight". [/B]
kun has a unique weapon and style-like this;d help anyone against Mace- and stalemated ulic, and defeated a Jedi Master with absolutely nothing to his name besides hardening a stick.
Mace's accomplishments and shown feats far exceed Exar's
Originally posted by jollyjim311
Que pasa?My copy of the Ultimate Visual Guide has been misplaced, so I don't have that particular quote, but when I find it, I'll get back to you. However, we have seen Maul use his lightsaber one handed on many occasions. Also, where does it state that his style is completely unique?
swtimeline is not helping, so I don't have the name of the comic. However, it is after Mace pushes Sora into a pile of rocks, then Mace attacks Asajj because she had killed a bunch of padawans. Asajj connects her sabers and Mace says something along the lines of "your new weapon cannot defeat me," and Asajj jumps off of a cliff. Asajj has two separate curving lightsabers that connect and are completely individual other double bladed lightsabers. She was still beat.
Have you read Shatterpoint or the ROTS Novel?
JJ, you're not understanding. Maul cannot use his weapon with one hand without slicing himself into pieces. The weapon is too big and it's not possible. His weapon and the double bladed sabers in KOTOR times are NOT like Kun's lightsaber. Kun's hilt was the size of a normal saber and he could alter the intensity of both blades. As a result his form and his style was unique and they died with him.
Originally posted by Darth Sexy
JJ, you're not understanding. Maul cannot use his weapon with one hand without slicing himself into pieces. The weapon is too big and it's not possible. His weapon and the double bladed sabers in KOTOR times are NOT like Kun's lightsaber. Kun's hilt was the size of a normal saber and he could alter the intensity of both blades. As a result his form and his style was unique and they died with him.
Maybe you or I cannot use that weapon one handed, but I doubt it's a problem for someone who has "mastered" it, seeing as how he has used it one handed.
Now, because Exar is more limited by having a smaller handle, I don't see how that helps his case. Also, what was the quote for Exar being able to modify the intensity of the blade mid fight?
Originally posted by Lightsnake
Vaapad is literally the worst thing for Kun to face, bar none. It's going to channel the Dark Side right back in his face, and I don't think an unfamiliar weapon will hold off one of the best swordsmen who ever lived.
and a shatterpoint doesn't even have to be a flaw in the style, remember? In fat, Mace's own skill vs. Kun's own?
Mace has shown us more speed, strength and skill
I simply don't see Kun winning
and by negating the negative, it becomes a positive. Therefore, there's no problem.
Wonderful. How many blasts did it take exactly? The last and most powerful one that killed the Sith Wyrm was hardly that large anyways. Nothing Mace would be incapable of dodging
What SIZE? In the last panel, they're what....a bit more than the span of Kun's body? Early on they're hardly wider than his arm? Read the comic again, Nai.
Someone who's able to move as fast as Mace would alreayd be moving before Kun even gets that shot off.
No, Nai. No. Either show me WHERE he used them again, or the point should be dropped. There is ZERO proof they are useful whatsoever against a force User of Mace's caliber.
Maybe it's KJA's bad writing. But that's as far as I'll give it.
And Mace is much faster than virtually every Jedi, remember? Perhaps I could bring up the comic where Mace kills a huge warlord with a stab to the heart and the guy doesn't even notice Mace attacked him until he sees the smoking hole
Btw you see I deleted your ridiculous crap on trying to tell us there were 4,000 members when common sense and logical deduction state otherwise.
The same Mace Windu who blocked force lightning from Kun's better, who isn't a pissy apprentice, who won't be double teamed from both sides while underpreared and uneducated on the danger...and yeah, Kun as the Darkest Power in the galaxy? When the other Dark Powers consist of Ulic "Crawling in My Skun" Qel-Droma and the Krath, I fail to see how that's such a terrific distinction.
And the Sun Crusher was...how big? Bigger than the strfighters Mace was taking down?
I don't see where Kun's own force abilities are significant whatsoever,
kun has a unique weapon and style-like this;d help anyone against Mace- and stalemated ulic, and defeated a Jedi Master with absolutely nothing to his name besides hardening a stick.
Mace's accomplishments and shown feats far exceed Exar's [/B]
Except in force usage and personal combat, Mace has not shown ANYTHING that would put him on the level of, or above Kun. Feat Wars don't translate into personal combat, sorry lightsnake.
Originally posted by jollyjim311
Maybe you or I cannot use that weapon one handed, but I doubt it's a problem for someone who has "mastered" it, seeing as how he has used it one handed.
Now, because Exar is more limited by having a smaller handle, I don't see how that helps his case. Also, what was the quote for Exar being able to modify the intensity of the blade mid fight? [/B]
Originally posted by Lightsnake
Despite the Jedi Brutes hanging around the temple and Mace being an avid believer in bettering himself?
Yay. Jedi Brutes. One of the three best duellist in the Order would surely try to improve his skills by fighting people vastly inferior to him in any department. That makes so much sense, Lightsnake. In fact it makes as much sense as the "Jedi Brutes" themselves. Whoever invented them should be shot on the moon.
Vaapad is literally the worst thing for Kun to face, bar none. It's going to channel the Dark Side right back in his face, and I don't think an unfamiliar weapon will hold off one of the best swordsmen who ever lived.
and a shatterpoint doesn't even have to be a flaw in the style, remember? In fat, Mace's own skill vs. Kun's own?
Mace has shown us more speed, strength and skill
And what Dark Side is it going to channel it back in Kun's face. Notice how it was creating a "loop" between Mace and Sidious in the Dark Side novel and not throwing something back into Sidious face as you claim.
And a Shatterpoint can be anything. Yes. Sidious Shatterpoint was Anakin. Are we going to assume that Kun's Shatterpoint is Ulic who will move into the fight right in time to allow Mace to exploit that Shatterpoint ? Urm. No ?
Clone Wars volume 1
Which doesn't matter as I said because Kun's weapon is unique and Asajj Ventress is not even remotely close to Kun's own lightsaber skill.
Eh? I saw the Trade Federation delegates in TPM...the large corporations like the TU or TF or BC were mentionned as having senate representation
Which was what I was trying to state: Those coperations were representing more than a single world / system which was what you've stated.
and by negating the negative, it becomes a positive. Therefore, there's no problem.
Right, Lightsnake. I guess you go back to elementary school. First there is no negation of a negative here (unblockable still does have the negative inside the word). Second: Two wrongs don't add up to one right. This is logical reasoning and not mathematics.
Wonderful. How many blasts did it take exactly? The last and most powerful one that killed the Sith Wyrm was hardly that large anyways. Nothing Mace would be incapable of dodgingWhat SIZE? In the last panel, they're what....a bit more than the span of Kun's body? Early on they're hardly wider than his arm? Read the comic again, Nai.
Someone who's able to move as fast as Mace would alreayd be moving before Kun even gets that shot off.
Yeah. Right. Of course, Lightsnake.
http://swtimeline.ru/?comics=7&page=102
Simply watch what areas are affected by the blasts and then you can stop that rediculous claims. Kun's clearly ripping a nice part of the ceiling away as well as you can see that the beam aimed to the ground is blasting several Massassi away and the next page shows how Kun simply obliterates a hand ful of Massassi with a single beam.
No, Nai. No. Either show me WHERE he used them again, or the point should be dropped. There is ZERO proof they are useful whatsoever against a force User of Mace's caliber.
Maybe it's KJA's bad writing. But that's as far as I'll give it.
Hilarious, Lightsnake. So it's Kun fault that he was in his own league and hence he never had to use that amulets again ? They are at least useful enough to obliterate the spirit of a force user powerful enough to floor people on the other side of the Galaxy, force pull the lightsaber out of Kun's hands and strip King Ommin from his power ? Right. Notice by the way how Nadd who could move through the Galaxy at will was not able to dodge that attack coming from Kun who was ramming his fist right into Nadd. Can Mace also move faster than somebody who can technically teleport himself to any place in the Galaxy ? That would indeed be impressive.
A huge guy in armor who moved how fast? I recall the art displaying the exact speed in a training session, IE: it's kinda hard to judge such speed in a comic unless there's narraration
I was referring to the Naddist that Ulic was cutting down before he took on Warb Null.
http://swtimeline.ru/?comics=4&page=015
Notice the line of that motion blurs...
As you might figure out Ulic was cutting through that five Naddist with a single movement before Null even turned his face towards him and that movement blurs still present indicate that he did so with a quite nice speed as well as the narrator does by stating that his lightsaber was "flashing".
And Mace is much faster than virtually every Jedi, remember? Perhaps I could bring up the comic where Mace kills a huge warlord with a stab to the heart and the guy doesn't even notice Mace attacked him until he sees the smoking hole
You mean like Kun was crossing the distance between Nadd's spirits and himself and rammed the fist with the amulet into Nadd's spectral body so fast, that Nadd, who technically could disappear at will, was not capable of moving out of the way ?
Is it just me who thinks that is more impressive than being able to move so fast that a non-force user isn't able to react ?
Yeah. And 'at its height', there were still just over 3000 Delegates
Says who ?
I said 'as of 20,000 thousand years ago.'
I'm saying that they would probably have the same delegation system as to before.
Which isn't correct...they reformed it...
Oh, come on, this is ridiculous.
Not only does it mention that at its height, the galactic senate consisted of just over 2000 delegates, there's nothing even hinting it talks about the building
And there's nothing even hinting that the Senate never had more members than that. Since the reformed the delegation system to fit all people in the new Senate Chamber there obvious once were more Senators in the Senate. Not to mention that the audience seems to have been public so you would have had more people than just the Senators in the building.
The same Mace Windu who blocked force lightning from Kun's better, who isn't a pissy apprentice, who won't be double teamed from both sides while underpreared and uneducated on the danger...
Since when does force lightning burn victims from the inside out ? And I was talking about Kun's knowledge about certain attacks. You think that Mace Windu has a higher force defence skill than post-DE Luke Skywalker ? That's pretty much debateable.
and yeah, Kun as the Darkest Power in the galaxy? When the other Dark Powers consist of Ulic "Crawling in My Skun" Qel-Droma and the Krath, I fail to see how that's such a terrific distinction.
Last time I checked we still had those ancient Sith spirits dwelling on Korriban in that point in time. At the very least. That would be ignoring the Star Forge, Malachor, the Unknown World (Lehon) and various other Dark Side infected places already...
And the Sun Crusher was...how big? Bigger than the strfighters Mace was taking down?
Rather amusing. I just brought up the fact that the ship was resting within the gravitational field of a gas giant and you simply ignore it. Wonderful.
I don't see where Kun's own force abilities are significant whatsoever,
Sure. But Mace's force abilities are. Let's see. He was capable of using force crush on somebody who had no defence against it and aside of that he demonstrated some telekinesis and speed / strength enchance here and there. That's totally impressive compared to Kun's various offensive abilities.
The only difference is, Mace has actually proved that visually
Yay. I guess Kun's rather fancy lightsaber wielding and the fact that nobody ever came close to sucessfully chalenge him in a lightsaber fight (notice that he improved heavily after duelling Ulic who, at that point, has demonstrated the greatest dueling abilities of all Jedi in the comics) doesn't mean anything.
kun has a unique weapon and style-like this;d help anyone against Mace- and stalemated ulic, and defeated a Jedi Master with absolutely nothing to his name besides hardening a stick.
Really...you are the only person that I know that can seriously come up with a statement like that. Oh...Kun has a fighting style unknown to Mace and uses a weapon design unknown to Mace. But that won't help against Mace because Mace is Mace...
So much geniousity in the art of debating. Impressive.
Mace's accomplishments and shown feats far exceed Exar's
Yeah. Accomplishments and feat wars. The way to win a direct confrontation. ANH Luke is going to wipe his ass with everybody in the SW universe because he killed more than 100,000 beings with a single attack (blowing the Death Star up). FEAT WARS FOR TEH WIN !
Um because wielding a double blade with one hand is a unique style that died with him, because nobody else was familiar with it, and because it gives him advantage of using it as a double bladed style, or using it as a single bladed style, while both blades are on. Not to mention he can alter the intensity of both beams to confuse opponents.
You mean like what Shado Vao does in Legacy #6:
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Image😖hado_vs_Talon_1.JPG
Just because his shirt is blocking the full saber this is how long it is:
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Image😖hado_Vao%27s_Lightsaber.JPG
And this is about 4000+ years after Exar Kun.
Really though what in the hell puts Exar Kun on Mace Windus level, or any of the lightsaber greats for that matter?
He admits in DLOTS that he hadn't even completed his lightsaber training, he then joins the dark side for a few weeks and is now labeled a master swordsman? That doesn't even make sense. Other then that quantify master swordsman, Plo Koon was a master swordsman as was Qui Gonn do they even hold a candle to Mace Windu? Hell no.
Other then that theres his DBL that you all keep going on about, pray tell how he is a "super badass beast" in lightsaber dueling with that thing when he only had AT BEST a few months to train with it, and on top of that he no one but lackeys who were an pathetically far weaker then him to train with.
Really how does being the originator of a style that was taken to new heights (see: Darth Maul and Shado Vao shows more skill then Kun EVER did in with a DSL) thats like saying the original computer is better then a Macbook.
Finally the limit of skill we see Exar Kun use the DBL is banging down on a stick like a retard hitting a pinata. And that somehow is equal too Mace freakin Windu? The man who has a style tailor fit to whoop Kun's ass, the man who layed the smackdown on Darth Sidious who just a few minutes before murked three "Master Swordsmen" in about 4 seconds. Kun is in no way the "top 5" or the "top 10" shit he'd barley even make a "top 20" in lightsaber skills, I'd rank friggin Darth Talon above him in pure lightsaber skills.
replace the little face with an "S" on those links
Originally posted by Gideon
You didn't answer my question: how does this compare to Vaapad and Shatterpoint? If we're to take Kas'im's statement as the gospel, am I to assume that Darth Maul and Bastila Shan are now among the elite duelists of the Star Wars mythos?
Oh...Maul wasn't among the elite duelists of the SW mythos ? Nice to know that. And Bastila was a Padawan and, going by this, most likely not a master of a certain lightsaber style. They were both certainly skilled enough to give some of the most powerful beings in their respective times some trouble.
I never denied that. But you're making it sound as if that somehow compares to Mace's own advantages, which is kind've funny since there's no reason to believe it's up to par.
And there is also no reason to believe something different. Let's look at Mace "advantages".
We do know that Vaapad is the "deadliest" lightsaber form. One would think that that would make Vaapad superior to Kun's form.
Yes. The deadliest of the seven forms known to the PT era Jedi which wouldn't include Kun's style. Hence you can't draw the conclusion that Vaapad is superior to Kun's unique lightsaber style from that statement.
That's assuming that Kun's style equals Mace's own, which, as you say below "begs for proof".
They both were extremely skilled lightsaber wielders and they certainly both were deadly. Both of them were equipped with knowledge (if not mastery) of several lightsaber combat forms. So how do you want to determine who's lightsaber style (being the respective own invention of one of them) is the better ?
Begs for proof? Unless Kun is perfect or otherwise 100% flawless, he has weaknesses. Since Mace was able to detect the weakness of a guy who is proven to be more powerful than Kun [Sidious], I find it grotesquely hard to believe that he wouldn't be able to do the same for Kun.
Once more: Since when does "more powerful" mean "better combatant" ? That premise has already been proven wrong multiple times and the fight between Mace and Sidious would be one instance for that. Another example would be Mara Jade vs Jacen or Bane vs Kas'im. The most powerful force user isn't the 100 % winner.
And aside of that: That "weakness" of Sidious if we go by the RotS novel was Anakin who was moving right into the room and it's even stated that Mace disarmed Sidious because the Sith Lord had to focus on the slippery ground (standing outside in the rain). If you want to go by the movie I just see the superior swordsmen disarming the inferior. And now ?
Neither Vaapad nor the Shatterpoint ability grant Mace the instant victory in a lightsaber fight. In fact we've seen the Shatterpoint ability failing and we also know that despite of using Vaapad Mace wasn't able to outduel Dooku when Dooku was a member of the Jedi Order, meaning that those style also doesn't mean guaranteed victory. As long as you don't want to say that creating a loop of Dark Side energy between the two combatants would lead to Kun's certain demise.
Kun's hilt was the size of a normal saber and he could alter the intensity of both blades. As a result his form and his style was unique and they died with him
In that case i must say Kun would be beat pretty fast by any good duelist. Why? So, kun basicly a double lightsaber in the hilt of a single one. Had you seen Darth Maul, the MASTER of the double lightsaber dueling, fighting in TPM? Most of his movements, attacks, defenses, parries, and all kind of movements need both of his hands grabing and moving the lightsaber, which would be MUCH more dificult to him if his lightsaber was almost 3 times smaller... And you see, you can't just fight with a double lightsaber in the same way you fight with a single one or you would slash yourself quite fast...
Mace wins. He showed much more then kun with his saber and his vaadpad, and even his force powers and force knowledge is showed wider then kun's one. I am not seeing kun wining against this mace...
Neither Vaapad nor the Shatterpoint ability grant Mace the instant victory in a lightsaber fight. In fact we've seen the Shatterpoint ability failing and we also know that despite of using Vaapad Mace wasn't able to outduel Dooku when Dooku was a member of the Jedi Order, meaning that those style also doesn't mean guaranteed victory. As long as you don't want to say that creating a loop of Dark Side energy between the two combatants would lead to Kun's certain demise.
Thats silly.
Other then this incident was before Mace perfected Vaapad and by his own admission in the ROTS novel:
There was a time when Mace had feared the dark; there was a time when he had feared the darkness within himself."
That takes place YEARS before Mace perfects Vaapad.
Originally posted by xxXAcStylesXxx
He admits in DLOTS that he hadn't even completed his lightsaber training, he then joins the dark side for a few weeks and is now labeled a master swordsman? That doesn't even make sense. Other then that quantify master swordsman, Plo Koon was a master swordsman as was Qui Gonn do they even hold a candle to Mace Windu? Hell no.
Coming back with the same crap again, Styles ? You're never going to understand what you read, correct ? Kun says that he has almost completed his lightsaber training. Vodo then decides to test it with the result that Kun defeats Crado, Sylvar and finally Vodo himself. Right after this Vodo says that Kun is the "most formidable student" he ever trained clearly refering to nothing else but Kun's lightsaber skills. So being the best lightsaber wielder a 600 year old Jedi Master who dedicated his life to training Jedi on two different planets (Dantooine and Ossus) has ever had doesn't make Kun something special ? Right.
Can you please stuff that stupid bullshit to the place it belongs ?
Other then that theres his DBL that you all keep going on about, pray tell how he is a "super badass beast" in lightsaber dueling with that thing when he only had AT BEST a few months to train with it, and on top of that he no one but lackeys who were an pathetically far weaker then him to train with.
Wow. Just wow. How can Nomi Sunrider wield a lightsaber like a master when picking the weapon up for the first time ? One might suggest that Kun did build (!) that weapon for a reason and Advent has already provided proof that with that weapon and his unique style he was better than during the time he dueled Ulic. And in that time he was already better with the saber than at the day Vodo told him he was the most formidable lightsaber duelist he had ever trained. So what ?
Really how does being the originator of a style that was taken to new heights (see: Darth Maul and Shado Vao shows more skill then Kun EVER did in with a DSL) thats like saying the original computer is better then a Macbook.
What was it you didn't get about "unique fighting style" ? How many people have you seen wielding a double-bladed lightsaber one-handed ? Maul ? Nope ! Shado Vao ? Ah yes. But despite of your claims his blade is far from being "regular size"
http://swtimeline.ru/?comics=646&page=121
And how should he use the same style that Kun did use ? Kun has invented the style and taught it to nobody. With his dead those style was lost to the Galaxy.
Finally the limit of skill we see Exar Kun use the DBL is banging down on a stick like a retard hitting a pinata.
Wow. Again the same crap you came up with some weeks ago. Watch Luke in ROTJ. Watch Mace fighting in ROTS. Lmao. If that's the great Jedi skill and speed I'll rather bet on Kun trashing Mace "Old Man" Windu.
And that somehow is equal too Mace freakin Windu? The man who has a style tailor fit to whoop Kun's ass, the man who layed the smackdown on Darth Sidious who just a few minutes before murked three "Master Swordsmen" in about 4 seconds. Kun is in no way the "top 5" or the "top 10" shit he'd barley even make a "top 20" in lightsaber skills, I'd rank friggin Darth Talon above him in pure lightsaber skills.
Yeah. And I'd rank the intelligence of a dead starfish above yours. But unlike you I would be correct with my ranking. By the way. I've heared they make a movie about your life ?
And just to shorten this debate: Kamhal seems to agree with you. That certainly means you're wrong. 🙄
Originally posted by Borbarad
Yay. Jedi Brutes. One of the three best duellist in the Order would surely try to improve his skills by fighting people vastly inferior to him in any department. That makes so much sense, Lightsnake. In fact it makes as much sense as the "Jedi Brutes" themselves. Whoever invented them should be shot on the moon.
And what Dark Side is it going to channel it back in Kun's face. Notice how it was creating a "loop" between Mace and Sidious in the Dark Side novel and not throwing something back into Sidious face as you claim.
And a Shatterpoint can be anything. Yes. Sidious Shatterpoint was Anakin. Are we going to assume that Kun's Shatterpoint is Ulic who will move into the fight right in time to allow Mace to exploit that Shatterpoint ? Urm. No ?
Which doesn't matter as I said because Kun's weapon is [b]unique and Asajj Ventress is not even remotely close to Kun's own lightsaber skill.
<I>
Which was what I was trying to state: Those coperations were representing more than a single world / system which was what you've stated.</I>
Was I saying that the corporations just represented a single world? I just said they represented their own group in the Senate...
Right, Lightsnake. I guess you go back to elementary school. First there is no negation of a negative here (unblockable still does have the negative inside the word). Second: Two wrongs don't add up to one right. This is logical reasoning and not mathematics.
Yeah. Right. Of course, Lightsnake.
http://swtimeline.ru/?comics=7&page=102
Simply watch what areas are affected by the blasts and then you can stop that rediculous claims. Kun's clearly ripping a nice part of the ceiling away as well as you can see that the beam aimed to the ground is blasting several Massassi away and the next page shows how Kun simply obliterates a hand ful of Massassi with a single beam.
Hilarious, Lightsnake. So it's Kun fault that he was in his own league and hence he never had to use that amulets again ? They are at least useful enough to obliterate the spirit of a force user powerful enough to floor people on the other side of the Galaxy, force pull the lightsaber out of Kun's hands and strip King Ommin from his power ? Right. Notice by the way how Nadd who could move through the Galaxy at will was not able to dodge that attack coming from Kun who was ramming his fist right into Nadd. Can Mace also move faster than somebody who can technically teleport himself to any place in the Galaxy ? That would indeed be impressive.
So, hm. Nadd caught off guard....vs. a full out ready Mace. Yeah, all Kun has to do is twitch his fist and everyone dies. Somehow I'm skeptical.
I was referring to the Naddist that Ulic was cutting down before he took on Warb Null.
http://swtimeline.ru/?comics=4&page=015
Notice the line of that motion blurs...
As you might figure out Ulic was cutting through that five Naddist with a single movement before Null even turned his face towards him and that movement blurs still present indicate that he did so with a quite nice speed as well as the narrator does by stating that his lightsaber was "flashing".
Also, that's three Naddists, and he kills them as Warb Null looks VERY ready to fight him in that panel
You mean like Kun was crossing the distance between Nadd's spirits and himself and rammed the fist with the amulet into Nadd's spectral body so fast, that Nadd, who technically could disappear at will, was not capable of moving out of the way ?
s it just me who thinks that is more impressive than being able to move so fast that a non-force user isn't able to react ?
Says who ?
Which isn't correct...they reformed it...
So, it was reformed. Did they magically change everything?
And there's nothing even hinting that the Senate never had more members than that. Since the reformed the delegation system to fit all people in the new Senate Chamber there obvious once were more Senators in the Senate. Not to mention that the audience seems to have been public so you would have had more people than just the Senators in the building.
And 'at its height, the senate consisted of just over 3000 delegates of the worlds and systems of the Republic.' More details, of course.
Now, then, Nai, instead of trying to twist things around, how about actually accepting what's there?
Since when does force lightning burn victims from the inside out ? And I was talking about Kun's knowledge about certain attacks. You think that Mace Windu has a higher force defence skill than post-DE Luke Skywalker ? That's pretty much debateable.
Last time I checked we still had those ancient Sith spirits dwelling on Korriban in that point in time. At the very least. That would be ignoring the Star Forge, Malachor, the Unknown World (Lehon) and various other Dark Side infected places already...
And wait a sec....WORLDS count as 'darkest powers?' I wasn't aware Malachor was a sentient place, nor Lehon....let alone 'Dark Powers'....
That seems a very, very liberal and stretching definition
Rather amusing. I just brought up the fact that the ship was resting within the gravitational field of a gas giant and you simply ignore it. Wonderful.
Sure. But Mace's force abilities are. Let's see. He was capable of using force crush on somebody who had no defence against it and aside of that he demonstrated some telekinesis and speed / strength enchance here and there. That's totally impressive compared to Kun's various offensive abilities.
[Quote[
Yay. I guess Kun's rather fancy lightsaber wielding and the fact that nobody ever came close to sucessfully chalenge him in a lightsaber fight (notice that he improved heavily after duelling Ulic who, at that point, has demonstrated the greatest dueling abilities of all Jedi in the comics) doesn't mean anything. [/Quote]
Wow, people who were weaklings compared to Mace and failed to show anytihng of significance to Mace couldn't beat Kun when they fought him.
Really...you are the only person that I know that can seriously come up with a statement like that. Oh...Kun has a fighting style unknown to Mace and uses a weapon design unknown to Mace. But that won't help against Mace because Mace is Mace...
So much geniousity in the art of debating. Impressive.
Wow, Nai! Could it be POSSIBLE that ACTUAL DEMONSTRATIONS OF POWER AND SKILL would be relevant to deciding who's better?
Yeah. Accomplishments and feat wars. The way to win a direct confrontation. ANH Luke is going to wipe his ass with everybody in the SW universe because he killed more than 100,000 beings with a single attack (blowing the Death Star up). FEAT WARS FOR TEH WIN ! [/B]
Originally posted by Lightsnake
They were firmly canonized in 'Purged' and I'd be amazed if Mace became a saber prodigy overnight, rather than through years of training, which'd probably include against people using double blades
"Firmly canonized". What a statement, Lightsnake. Are you ever listening to yourself ? Purge doesn't canonize them it just shows one Jedi looking like one of the brutes wielding a dual-blade. That's it. No mention of "Jedi Brutes".
Yeah, and the loop it created would've 'kept the fight going forever if Vaapad were Mace's only talent
So what ? Do you want me to assume that Sidious, who didn't have a lightsaber in hand for more than a decade, is on par with / above Kun when it comes to sheer bladework ? I hope you don't. Because that wouldn't make any sense.
Sidious was using the Dark Side to keep up with a younger opponent who had more skill in the lightsaber department than himself. Kun, for all we know, wouldn't need to resort to something like that. The usual force use in combat (speed / strength enchantment) can be done without touching the Dark Side and both are basic abilities.
Are we going to assume that there's only a single shatterpoint in any situation? As Mace observed, they can change. His ability locks on the most readily availible
Are we going to assume that there's even a single Shatterpoint in any situation ? I hope not because that would be a wrong premise since Mace had already faced situations where his Shatterpoint ability was useless. Yes, they can change and the ability shows him the most readily available but first there is to need to have even one and if none is there it again takes Mace usual skills to change the situation in a way that a exploitable Shatterpoint is created.
The point is, Mace isn't going to be taken down by virtue of Kun's weapon and style being unique. IF this were the criteria, Kharys should've>Vader by a longshot
Yeah. Let's do the good old comparison of apples to oranges again. Not only did Vader train Kharys he was vastly superior to her with the lightsaber and the force considering the fact that pre-ESB Luke did kill her in lightsaber combat. Really. Totally compareable to Kun VS Mace.
For starters, just about anything can be reduced to negative form. If they make the claim that something is indeed unblockable, I expect it to be backed up with actual evidence.
Not just 'LOOK AT THE BEEMS!"
Oh. Trying to look smart, Lightsnake ? And you're trying that with me. Dumb mistake.
Of course everything can be reduced to a negative form. But in this case you're simply stating that a Jedi can dodge or block that beams without proof and instead of presenting some proof you simply come up with asking for proof that those beams are "unblockable". Nobody did ever claim that they are unblockable. The thing is that Jedi have been shown to fall to less destructive blaster bolts (block ?) which don't even come remotely close to the size of that beams (dodge ?). There is a reason they put their lightsabers in the way of blaster shots, Lightsnake and still get gunned down if they aren't fast enough.
And in this case, just to show you how rediculous that is, you are pretty much assuming that Mace will jump out of the way before Kun hits him. First mistake: Mace doesn't even know what that amulet does so why shall he jump out of the way. Second mistake: Even if he know what the amulet does he has to react on Kun's movement to use that amulet and he might be as fast as possible. Stating that he's faster than an energy beam would be a little bit of a stretch. I guess that makes the "dodging" scenario rather unlikely. Third mistake: Let's assume that Mace takes the more likely road and tries to block that beams. How ? I fail to see how a lightsaber will stop that energy and going by the sheer destructive power of the beams and the fact that Mace was hardly able to defend himself against Sidious force lightning (and that also required his lightsaber) I doubt that blocking them is an option.
A handful? Um, no. He kills one Massassi, then shoots another. two. LOOK AT THE SIZE OF THE BLASTS IN THE PICTURE YOU JUST POSTED.
The blast he fires into the Wyrm's mouth is barely bigger than his arm, and no matter what the destructive power it has on a stone wall, the size won't change.
So, no. I'm not seeing any 'disintegration'-hey, is that debris? I'm not seeing all powerful, unblockable, gargantuan blasts...I'm seeing something that Exar's fanboys blew out of proportion long, long ago.
The blast he fires to kill the Sithwyrm is actually almost as big as the wyrms mouth. Just to give you an idea:
http://swtimeline.ru/?comics=7&page=095
Small room, Lightsnake, is a description that actually fits.
You know, if Kun hadn't caught Nadd off guard and actually fought him, that might hold weight. Instead, Exar attacked a gloating Freedon Nadd, catching him totally off guard, and destroyed him with weapons capable of that and which has absolutely zero bearing on a fight with a living being he's actually fighting.
http://swtimeline.ru/?comics=7&page=104
Yeah. Telling somebody that you have enough off him and then raise your new found weapon is not enough of a warning. No. Crossing the rather huge distance between your victim and yourself (have a look at the third frame) also doesn't give enough time to react because...aww...well...because you're so fast ?
So, hm. Nadd caught off guard....vs. a full out ready Mace. Yeah, all Kun has to do is twitch his fist and everyone dies. Somehow I'm skeptical.
You know that I was still refering to speed and not talking about Kun hammering his amulet into Mace's body ?
Yeah, I notice I SEE LINES INDICATING MOVEMENT AND NOTHING MORE, or is Ulic leaving after images while he's training? And last I checked, Mace ha done the 'shiny lightsaber path' in the Republic comics when he killed Harrll, and so did Quinlan Vos.
And that tells you what ? That they all are pretty fast ? Thanks. That was exactly what I told you.
And Mace cut his way through many more bounty hunters before dodging a blast at point blank range and beheading the shooter.
How does a crappily drawn comic=speed?
And his flashing lightsaber finds it mark? That's speed? I assumed 'flashing' is just a reference to what lightsabers do-flash.
That's wonderful, Lightsnake. May I remind you of your original statement saying that "Mace did at least display his speed visually". So did Kun. And notice how Ulic has still killed the next two Naddist before the first one he killed did even hit the ground.
Also, that's three Naddists, and he kills them as Warb Null looks VERY ready to fight him in that panel
And if you take a look at the page before that you would see that it were five Naddist which somebody had to kill because after the fight Ulic was the last man standing and actually that lightsaber-after-images show another two "hits" (similar to that explosion like contact marks you see where Ulic was hitting the other three Naddists).
I mean, how about you stop changing events to make them what you want?
Lemme give a quote: "Catching Nadd off guard, Kun destroys the spirit of the Fallen Jedi forever."
Yeah. Wow. Kun can deliver a punch to someone too busy gloating about his new life and doesn't expect to be attacked by a guy he believes he has in his power.
Shocking.
http://swtimeline.ru/?comics=7&page=051
And he can also move his lightsaber into his hand, ignite it and kill somebody who holds a blaster right into his face before his opponent can pull the trigger, than move to the other before he can take a shot and kill him also. You were saying ?
It would be if you didn't turn the event into something it wasn't:
Nadd got arrogant and sloppy, didn't see the blow coming, and died for being arrogant. Nothing more complicated.
I guess you can't argue the picture above in the same way.
So? The Republic still had a continuous 20,000 year history, at the height of which, the senate consisted of just over 3000 delegatesSo, it was reformed. Did they magically change everything?
This is getting boring, Lightsnake. That the Republic was in his height doesn't mean that the number of Senate members also was. Wrong premise, Lightsnake. Go figure. In fact they increased the number of worlds while, through the reformations, they decreased the number of Senators going from one Senator per planet over one per system and one per 50 systems to one senator for a sector (about 1,000 inhabited planets). More or less.
Since when does the public get invited to the Senate's trial of a known war criminal? When was the Public HINTED at being there?
In a democracy I don't see a problem for "the public" entering a trial of a known war criminal. Do you ? And "the public" ?
http://swtimeline.ru/?comics=5&page=055
You did notice that Nomi and Cay were running to a nice crowd and did arrive in the Senate just in time when the audition started ? Not to mention that the hall seems to be compareable in size to a football stadium and is completely filled. By just 3,000 people ? Right, Lightsnake.
And 'at its height, the senate consisted of just over 3000 delegates of the worlds and systems of the Republic.' More details, of course.
And clearly there are more people present at Ulic's audition. And you might also tell me why some source claim that up to 50,000 people would have been able to comfortably fit into that building. 3,000 does simply not match the sheer dimensions of the building which ranks were filled during Ulic's trial.
Who mentioned ANYTHING about force lightning frying someone from inside out? I'm just gonna guess Mace is a little stronger than Gantoris, and Mace definitely has more knowledge in the Force than Luke, who spent very little time with any Master.
Same as how Kol Skywalker died, when we know he could reflect lightning. Only Kun won't have the added advantage of a double team on a surprised Mace, will he?
Kun did fry Gantoris from the inside out which you obviously have mistaken as Kun using force lightning. Which Mace can't block bare-handed for all we know. And please...every defence Yoda did show Luke against force attacks failed against Kun's attack. I doubt that Yoda sent Luke out to confront the Emperor without knowledge on how to deflect force attacks and I also doubt that Luke learned nothing in the 7 years between ROTJ and the JA trilogy.
Actually, those spirits would've vanished into Chaos until a darkness strong enough called them back, etc etc
Hence why they are talking to Nadd when he and Kun do visit Korriban ? Hence Bane, even 3000 years later, still notices how strong the Dark Side is in that place ? Hence why they are sitting around and are talking to Sidious in the DE comics ?
And again: So what?
Kun had to overcome the gravitational powers of the Gas Giant to pull the ship out of it's core and he did the main part of the job, considering how Kyp on his own archieved nothing there.
Wow, people who were weaklings compared to Mace and failed to show anytihng of significance to Mace couldn't beat Kun when they fought him.
Yes, sir. Outright prodigies like Nomi Sunrider or Ulic Qel-Droma a weaklings compared to Mace. Based on what ? On the fact that they managed to survive a war for several years when constantly challenging some Dark Side adepts ?
I've let this bullshit 'unique weapon and style' stuff slide so far, but Mace also has his unique style and ability, so I don't see a master swordsman panicking and breaking down when we've seen even a NOVICE account for this 'unqiue style/weapon' ludicrous trash
Oh. It's nice that you've let this slide so far, great Lightsnake. As I don't see you arguing the point I will assume that you will let it slide even further or were that words of utter nonsens your take on that ? Pathetic.
Wow, Nai! Could it be POSSIBLE that ACTUAL DEMONSTRATIONS OF POWER AND SKILL would be relevant to deciding who's better?
Nice misdirection, though.
As you've still not mentioned any demonstrations of power and skill that put Mace above Kun I don't see your point.
