Originally posted by starkingHe stabbed into Darkseid, block his beams before they came out, dragged him up into the air, blew up his armor, and then through him back onto the planet...
When I said Raker did shit, I meant he didn't do ANYTHING very impressive. Come on, he just knocked him down, held a shovel over him, and before he could do anything else, The Guardian interfer. I just said it that way, because it really wasn't, that big of a deal. Not a low showing for Ds, not a high one for Raker.And can't recall the Guardians attacking any one, but that wasn't my point, in the first place. The story STRONGLY implied, that Oa couldn't win a war against Apokolips. They were getting owned, pretty badly.
And yes, Ds pretty much lost against Doomsday, he kicked the crap out of him, then dragged him unconcious. As for the point I was trying to make, about the avatars, of course all of his losses would be avatars. When he stated so, he had no reason to lie about it, and he said his true form LIKELY cannot be beaten, on physical plane. It doesn't mean he never showed his true self in the comics, it just means he probally didn't use it, when he faced Doomsday, other characters who defeated him.
Oh, so you don't recall the Guardians attacking anyone, but the Guardians not standing up to Darkseid is supposed to be a good feat... right?
That's like saying the Watchers not fighting Wolverine or someone, is a good feat for Wolverine.
What it seemed like, was that the GLs couldn't win a war, not the Guardians...
Umm... you said that any story before New Gods #15 was retconned, and I quote:
"But it doesn't matter anyways, it was retconned, like any other story, that came before New Gods #15."
So, ya... mixed messages much?
Also, if you take the avatars words for much (not saying they're wrong, but they're not absolute proof either), then that means that real Darkseid is virtually unbeatable, and has near infinite power.
As for you pointing out that he can "likely" be beaten...
It says right on panel, that if his opponent is strong enough he can beat an avatar.
What that means, is that real Darkseid cannot be beaten, which is just a crock of shit in its own right.
Originally posted by starkingdarkseid has lost. i wil neevr buy this. that darkseid cannot lose but only win. that makes no sense. darkseid has gotten his clock cleaned in. first the argument is the guardians backed down now its that wasnt even the real darkseid anyways so who cares. face the facts. darkseids true form has been beaten down, why would i belive somehting darkseid said to anyone. 😆
When I said Raker did shit, I meant he didn't do ANYTHING very impressive. Come on, he just knocked him down, held a shovel over him, and before he could do anything else, The Guardian interfer. I just said it that way, because it really wasn't, that big of a deal. Not a low showing for Ds, not a high one for Raker.And can't recall the Guardians attacking any one, but that wasn't my point, in the first place. The story STRONGLY implied, that Oa couldn't win a war against Apokolips. They were getting owned, pretty badly.
And yes, Ds pretty much lost against Doomsday, he kicked the crap out of him, then dragged him unconcious. As for the point I was trying to make, about the avatars, of course all of his losses would be avatars. When he stated so, he had no reason to lie about it, and he said his true form LIKELY cannot be beaten, on physical plane. It doesn't mean he never showed his true self in the comics, it just means he probally didn't use it, when he faced Doomsday, other characters who defeated him.
Originally posted by Jebus rebornagree with u wholeheartedly. one minute it counts and darkseid let him live, next minute its not real darkseid so who cares. darkseid cannot be beaten physically. 😱 its like they try to have it both ways.
He stabbed into Darkseid, block his beams before they came out, dragged him up into the air, blew up his armor, and then through him back onto the planet...
That's not shit...
Oh ya, and the whole green weakness thing I think worked against Raker.Oh, so you don't recall the Guardians attacking anyone, but the Guardians not standing up to Darkseid is supposed to be a good feat... right?
couldn't win a war, not the Guardians...
That's like saying the Watchers not fighting Wolverine or someone, is a good feat for Wolverine.
What it seemed like, was that the [b]GLsUmm... you said that any story before New Gods #15 was retconned, and I quote:
"But it doesn't matter anyways, it was retconned, like any other story, that came before New Gods #15."
So, ya... mixed messages much?Also, if you take the avatars words for much (not saying they're wrong, but they're not absolute proof either), then that means that real Darkseid is virtually unbeatable, and has near infinite power.
As for you pointing out that he can "likely" be beaten...
It says right on panel, that if his opponent is strong enough he can beat an avatar.What that means, is that real Darkseid cannot be beaten, which is just a crock of shit in its own right. [/B]
Originally posted by Soops220no that isnt my whole argument. those losses prove darkseid sucks at hand to hand. thanos in regards to this thread has prep to. thanos with prep has far more impressive deeds. thanos doesnt have a whole planet backing him up. he doesnt need it to be honest. darksied needs all the resoucres and all the advantages and thanos is still ahead of him. u people always want to talk of thanos using powerups as like a bad thing. darkseid needs powerups to conquer the universe to. dont penalize thanos because he gets hios while darkseid just sits on his ass picking his nose. wondering how hell plunder new genesis.
You can't put it much better than the above statement. With enough time Thanos would definitely prevail over DS. However, Quanchi's whole argument is based on Superman defeating DS, therefore Thanos could do it too is WEAK.
Originally posted by starkingnice scans jebus. i see darkseid is getting owned again. about to get killed by a shovel. i mean he had him beat down. this right here this comic is another reason why i say darkseid is weak at hand to hand. he took away his omeag effect and he got owned. and was about to be beheaded by a shovel 😆
I doubt Raker would've done much, if the it were not for the Guardians. I'm sure Ds, had the power to EASILY kill him, for in their first encounter, Raker was slapped aside and had his hand crushed. Not only that, but Ds kept him alive, for his own intentions.As for the war, it was obvious, that the corps couldn't win it. Lanterns were being slaughtered by the masses, even after sending in more. And the only reason they didn't continue any further, is because the Guardians made a truce, to keep Raker.
As for the story itself, it should take place BEFORE the events of New gods #15, for it apeared to be in the past.
Originally posted by Jebus rebornBeleive or not, but Ds having NEARLY infinite energy, IS NOT as ridiculous, as you may think. The fact that he caused time to collapse, with the abscence of his power, tells alot. Not only that, but his ability to create beings such as Takion, Validus, and Mantis, should speak for itself.
He stabbed into Darkseid, block his beams before they came out, dragged him up into the air, blew up his armor, and then through him back onto the planet...
That's not shit...
Oh ya, and the whole green weakness thing I think worked against Raker.Oh, so you don't recall the Guardians attacking anyone, but the Guardians not standing up to Darkseid is supposed to be a good feat... right?
couldn't win a war, not the Guardians...
That's like saying the Watchers not fighting Wolverine or someone, is a good feat for Wolverine.
What it seemed like, was that the [b]GLsUmm... you said that any story before New Gods #15 was retconned, and I quote:
"But it doesn't matter anyways, it was retconned, like any other story, that came before New Gods #15."
So, ya... mixed messages much?Also, if you take the avatars words for much (not saying they're wrong, but they're not absolute proof either), then that means that real Darkseid is virtually unbeatable, and has near infinite power.
As for you pointing out that he can "likely" be beaten...
It says right on panel, that if his opponent is strong enough he can beat an avatar.What that means, is that real Darkseid cannot be beaten, which is just a crock of shit in its own right. [/B]
See the thing is, it's not like the avatar was saying something completely outragous. Ds ACTUAL has the feats to back the statement up. Meaning it's not hyperbole bullshit, and there's no doubt in my mind, that he was is speaking the truth.
And about the Guardians, I wasn't TALKING, about them backing down from Ds. I was speaking on how they couldn't win a war, against Apokolips.
edit: Btw, it doesn't matter if Raker knocked down Seid, the fight was interrupted by the Guardians, and be serious, do you think a shovel would hurt Ds? In the same story, he destroyed Raker's Battery, with single blast. Unless the shovel was some kind of powerful weapon, then I doubt it would of done anything to Seid.
Originally posted by starkingYou know how ridiculous that sounds... don't you?
Beleive or not, but Ds having NEARLY infinite energy, IS NOT as ridiculous, as you may think. The fact that he caused time to collapse, with the abscence of his power, tells alot. Not only that, but his ability to create beings such as Takion, Validus, and Mantis, should speak for itself.See the thing is, it's not like the avatar was saying something completely outragous. Ds ACTUAL has the feats to back the statement up. Meaning it's not hyperbole bullshit, and there's no doubt in my mind, that he was is speaking the truth.
And about the Guardians, I wasn't TALKING, about them backing down from Ds. I was speaking on how they couldn't win a war, against Apokolips.
Um, he created Stayne, not Takion.
DS has feats to back up that he can't be beaten? I'm intrigued...
Because I remember DS getting smashed by Spectre...
And don't tell me that was an avatar, because an avatar can barely hurt Superman, and now one hurts Spectre?
So, what exactly are you trying to get at with this anyway:
"As for the Guardians, they DIDN'T want a war, with Apokolips. That alone should tell you something."
Seeing as how it's completely irrelevant, since Guardians don't naturally fight.
Also, I'm not sure about them not winning a war, since, in the same scene Raker had the master down, and a Guardian broke it up.
Now, I don't care if it's pis, or other shit, but the scene really doesn't help what you're saying.
Originally posted by Jebus reborn"You know how ridiculous that sounds... don't you?
You know how ridiculous that sounds... don't you?
You mean to tell me that the Source can't create another DS out of thin air, to save existence?Um, he created Stayne, not Takion.
DS has feats to back up that he can't be beaten? I'm intrigued...
Because I remember DS getting smashed by Spectre...
And don't tell me that was an avatar, because an avatar can barely hurt Superman, and now one hurts Spectre?So, what exactly are you trying to get at with this anyway:
"As for the Guardians, they DIDN'T want a war, with Apokolips. That alone should tell you something."Seeing as how it's completely irrelevant, since Guardians don't naturally fight.
Also, I'm not sure about them not winning a war, since, in the same scene Raker had the master down, and a Guardian broke it up.
Now, I don't care if it's pis, or other shit, but the scene really doesn't help what you're saying.
Did I it say that he posses, true infinite power? Of course not. I'm not trying to pair Darkseid, with beings such as the fp Galactus, and the Spectre. I KNOW that even the real Ds, cannot defeat the Spectre.
And don't call me ridiculous, because of his power collapsed time, that's what happened, in Legion of superheroes:Foundation. Not only that, but Ds was STILL alive, so there was no point, in making another one, he just needed to return to that timeline.
"Um, he created Stayne, not Takion."
Yes I know Ds created Stayne, not Takion, it was merely a typo
See there's a difference between infinite power, and nearly infinite power. Ds is a god, but he's no Eternity or someone of that nature, he's closer(or possibly equal) to someone of Odin's calibur. It's very beleivable, that every time Ds lost to a Superman level being, it wasnt the real deal.
"Also, I'm not sure about them not winning a war, since, in the same scene Raker had the master down, and a Guardian broke it up.
Now, I don't care if it's pis, or other shit, but the scene really doesn't help what you're saying."
Yes Jebus, Apokolips WAS winning, Gl's were being slaughtered, by the masses. No, I don't consider it pis, for it wasn't that big of a deal, in the first place. I mean be for real, do you honestly think, that a shovel, could of harmed him? I'm sure that's not what the writers intended, for Darkseid even admitted, that he wanted to keep Raker alive, for his own purposes.
Originally posted by starkingI called the sentence ridiculous, and the story ridiculous, because how can a being only Odin level (according to later statements), cause time to collapse just by not being there?
Did I it say that he posses, true infinite power? Of course not. I'm not trying to pair Darkseid, with beings such as the fp Galactus, and the Spectre. I KNOW that even the real Ds, cannot defeat the Spectre.
And don't call me ridiculous, because of his power collapsed time, that's what happened, in Legion of superheroes:Foundation. Not only that, but Ds was STILL alive, so there was no point, in making another one, he just needed to return to that timeline.
Plus (following this), Source could have stopped this easily by creating an equal to DS.
Originally posted by starkingOK... Odin's caliber?
See there's a difference between infinite power, and nearly infinite power. Ds is a god, but he's no Eternity or someone of that nature, he's closer(or possibly equal) to someone of Odin's calibur. It's very beleivable, that every time Ds lost to a Superman level being, it wasnt the real deal.
Originally posted by starkingMeh, I wrote a response to this, but damn edit wasn't working properly, and it got erased...
Yes Jebus, Apokolips WAS winning, Gl's were being slaughtered, by the masses. No, I don't consider it pis, for it wasn't that big of a deal, in the first place. I mean be for real, do you honestly think, that a shovel, could of harmed him? I'm sure that's not what the writers intended, for Darkseid even admitted, that he wanted to keep Raker alive, for his own purposes.
Anyway, Apok might have been winning, but one singular GL (who by all nature, is far lower than a Guardian), had DS down.
If we follow the level DS was at there, then a Guardian could have easily ended the war there and then.
Therefore, making it pointless to bring up anything along the lines of a Guardian not wanting war.
Also, not I don't believe it could have harmed him (unless it was steel... those things hurt), but, the main point is, that Raker had the upper hand, and the fight was interrupted when Raker had down, and all scratched up.
Originally posted by Jebus rebornyes raker did have the upper hand the scan proves it. it proves everything i have been saying as well. when darkseid cant rely on the omega effect against apowerful opponent he gets owned. this just is more evidence of that. superman on multiple occasions,doomsday brought apokolips down singlehandedly, and raker hand him down and was winning. its time for people to quit making excuses for darkseid and to start giving thanos the credit he deserves. thanos would have darkseid down quicker than raker the guy who beat him with a shovel. 😆
I called the sentence ridiculous, and the story ridiculous, because how can a being only Odin level (according to later statements), cause time to collapse just by not being there?
Even Galactus level shouldn't cause this disturbance, which is why I believe that it was DS's importance that had this impact, rather than his power level.
Hell, it's been shown he's important before (by being killed, and simply coming right back), so if we follow this, if we remove an important aspect of the universe by time, then by all theory, time should collapse.Plus (following this), Source could have stopped this easily by creating an equal to DS.
OK... Odin's caliber?
That's it?
That's what near infinite power means? And that's what being unbeatable means?Meh, I wrote a response to this, but damn edit wasn't working properly, and it got erased...
Anyway, Apok might have been winning, but one singular GL (who by all nature, is far lower than a Guardian), had DS down.
If we follow the level DS was at there, then a Guardian could have easily ended the war there and then.
Therefore, making it pointless to bring up anything along the lines of a Guardian not wanting war.Also, not I don't believe it could have harmed him (unless it was steel... those things hurt), but, the main point is, that Raker had the upper hand, and the fight was interrupted when Raker had down, and all scratched up.
thanos with prep is far greater than darkseid with prep.
their hisotries also prove this. people say darkseid doesnt have enough artifacts in dcu. take the universes as they are. no universe is easier to conquer than the other. we can just go by who has conquered or been more successful in each of their own universes is all we can do.
Originally posted by quanchi112
thanos with prep is far greater than darkseid with prep.
their hisotries also prove this. people say darkseid doesnt have enough artifacts in dcu. take the universes as they are. no universe is easier to conquer than the other. we can just go by who has conquered or been more successful in each of their own universes is all we can do.
this is the most rediculous thing I have ever read. Thanos doesn't have highfather and new genesis on his ass. Thanos Also doesn't have meddling Cosmics in his way. Marvel's cosmics dont' meddle nearly as much as DC's do. Thanos Can't prep for shit if he had to do it on his own. For all his prep, he's always stealing somebody else's shit to accomplish something. I tell you this much, DS with prep was able to actually freeze the Multiversal power of the Godwave. When has Thanos even had multiversal power over anything? Even when he had the IG he never showed it. I don't count the heart becuz that may or may not be cannon to 616 thanos. And even if it is, he didn't do shit. he got used. He was just a pawn. It wasn't even his plan. So exactly what prep is thanos king at? Stealing Morg's power ball? Beating the elders who everyone says is not impressive? even tho I used to think they were until that pc vs PP thread. So what has he done On his own with his own resources that is just all the rage? With his own power he's smacked around a stupid Silver Surfer who fights like a 5 year old girl when he's around Thanos. Surfer=> Thor but thor does better against Thanos? WTF. Thanos pimp smacks a smart hulk, the Thing, a crummy version of Thor and He's just all that. LOL. He's got to do better in my book. And DC's handling of DS is WORSE!! Avatars and all the bullshit. But at least DS has uber High end feats on his own with no power ups. And even DS with prep Beats Thanos. IT was DS with prep that took the multiversal AM down for the count. lets not forget that. Thanos has never shown that lvl of prep. Nuff said. Good night.
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirlthe most ridiulous thing i have ever heard is that dc is a tougher universe. u say he has high father on his ass. ares killed his high ftaher. the same ares who beat him to the godwave. he snuck right in there and absorbed is godwave. its funny u dont count thanos with the heart becuz u know he beat everyone in the known universe pretty much. u count darksieds futursistuic deeds with great darkness yet we cant couint something thanos refernced in his own series, lol. 😆 . it doesnt make any sense. for one thing also in great darkness saga darkseid amped himself up by absorbing all these powers and stealing all these superbeings powers. its a powerup. darksied used powerups. deal with it. but when thanos beats the elders u say people say its not that impressive. who are these mysterious people u speak of. its just someone trying to downplay thanos accomplish,ents that far outweigh darkseid accomplishments. dc with prep with everyone else with luthor took down antimonitor. did i miss soemthing i diddnt know darkseid alone saved the day. thanos helped defeat and fool the magus and defeat goddess to. just like darkseid along with eevryone else beat antimonitor. u make it seem like darkseid did it singlehandledy. thanos with prep conqueres the universe something darkseid has been out to do since he was created by jack kirby. and oh yeah conquer new genesis, two goals he has yet to reach. but oh yeah hes so great with prep. 😆
this is the most rediculous thing I have ever read. Thanos doesn't have highfather and new genesis on his ass. Thanos Also doesn't have meddling Cosmics in his way. Marvel's cosmics dont' meddle nearly as much as DC's do. Thanos Can't prep for shit if he had to do it on his own. For all his prep, he's always stealing somebody else's shit to accomplish something. I tell you this much, DS with prep was able to actually freeze the Multiversal power of the Godwave. When has Thanos even had multiversal power over anything? Even when he had the IG he never showed it. I don't count the heart becuz that may or may not be cannon to 616 thanos. And even if it is, he didn't do shit. he got used. He was just a pawn. It wasn't even his plan. So exactly what prep is thanos king at? Stealing Morg's power ball? Beating the elders who everyone says is not impressive? even tho I used to think they were until that pc vs PP thread. So what has he done On his own with his own resources that is just all the rage? With his own power he's smacked around a stupid Silver Surfer who fights like a 5 year old girl when he's around Thanos. Surfer=> Thor but thor does better against Thanos? WTF. Thanos pimp smacks a smart hulk, the Thing, a crummy version of Thor and He's just all that. LOL. He's got to do better in my book. And DC's handling of DS is WORSE!! Avatars and all the bullshit. But at least DS has uber High end feats on his own with no power ups. And even DS with prep Beats Thanos. IT was DS with prep that took the multiversal AM down for the count. lets not forget that. Thanos has never shown that lvl of prep. Nuff said. Good night.
Originally posted by Jebus reborn" I called the sentence ridiculous, and the story ridiculous, because how can a being only Odin level (according to later statements), cause time to collapse just by not being there?
I called the sentence ridiculous, and the story ridiculous, because how can a being only Odin level (according to later statements), cause time to collapse just by not being there?
Even Galactus level shouldn't cause this disturbance, which is why I believe that it was DS's importance that had this impact, rather than his power level.
Hell, it's been shown he's important before (by being killed, and simply coming right back), so if we follow this, if we remove an important aspect of the universe by time, then by all theory, time should collapse.Plus (following this), Source could have stopped this easily by creating an equal to DS.
OK... Odin's caliber?
That's it?
That's what near infinite power means? And that's what being unbeatable means?Meh, I wrote a response to this, but damn edit wasn't working properly, and it got erased...
Anyway, Apok might have been winning, but one singular GL (who by all nature, is far lower than a Guardian), had DS down.
If we follow the level DS was at there, then a Guardian could have easily ended the war there and then.
Therefore, making it pointless to bring up anything along the lines of a Guardian not wanting war.Also, not I don't believe it could have harmed him (unless it was steel... those things hurt), but, the main point is, that Raker had the upper hand, and the fight was interrupted when Raker had down, and all scratched up.
It was SPECIFICALLY said in that story, that if you pull one as powerful as Darkseid, from the time stream, then time itself would collapse. Maybe Ds's power balances out the universe, or something of that matter. It's not an out this world statement, his power and Highfather's, where potent enough, to repair the Source. And you know, the Source is supposed to be, everything in the universe.
"Plus (following this), Source could have stopped this easily by creating an equal to DS."
This may sound like speculation, but it's possible that creating another Seid, wasn't necessary. All that was needed to be done, was to return Seid, back to that said timeline.
"OK... Odin's caliber?
That's it?
That's what near infinite power means? And that's what being unbeatable means?"
Well Odin has done some pretty wild stuff, in his appearances, so the comparison isn't that crazy. Seriously, wouldn't you say Odin possed NEAR infinite power? That word can mean anything, for all we know.
"Anyway, Apok might have been winning, but one singular GL (who by all nature, is far lower than a Guardian), had DS down.
If we follow the level DS was at there, then a Guardian could have easily ended the war there and then.
Therefore, making it pointless to bring up anything along the lines of a Guardian not wanting war."
Meh, doesn't matter anyways, if Raker's and Seid's scruffle had continued, I doubt it would've tip the favor, for Oa. Like I said, Raker only knocked Seid down, and held a shovel over him. It's not like he was beating the utter crap out of him, and really don't consider that a low showing, on Ds's behalf.
Originally posted by starkingraker had darkseid on his ass on the ground. the fight ended with darkseid showing nothing to the effect of doing anything to raker. its obvious that when he took away ds omega effect that darkseid lost.
" I called the sentence ridiculous, and the story ridiculous, because how can a being only Odin level (according to later statements), cause time to collapse just by not being there?
Even Galactus level shouldn't cause this disturbance, which is why I believe that it was DS's importance that had this impact, rather than his power level."It was SPECIFICALLY said in that story, that if you pull one as powerful as Darkseid, from the time stream, then time itself would collapse. Maybe Ds's power balances out the universe, or something of that matter. It's not an out this world statement, his power and Highfather's, where potent enough, to repair the Source. And you know, the Source is supposed to be, everything in the universe.
"Plus (following this), Source could have stopped this easily by creating an equal to DS."
This may sound like speculation, but it's possible that creating another Seid, wasn't necessary. All that was needed to be done, was to return Seid, back to that said timeline.
"OK... Odin's caliber?
That's it?
That's what near infinite power means? And that's what being unbeatable means?"Well Odin has done some pretty wild stuff, in his appearances, so the comparison isn't that crazy. Seriously, wouldn't you say Odin possed NEAR infinite power? That word can mean anything, for all we know.
"Anyway, Apok might have been winning, but one singular GL (who by all nature, is far lower than a Guardian), had DS down.
If we follow the level DS was at there, then a Guardian could have easily ended the war there and then.
Therefore, making it pointless to bring up anything along the lines of a Guardian not wanting war."Meh, doesn't matter anyways, if Raker's and Seid's scruffle had continued, I doubt it would've tip the favor, for Oa. Like I said, Raker only knocked Seid down, and held a shovel over him. It's not like he was beating the utter crap out of him, and really don't consider that a low showing, on Ds's behalf.
Originally posted by quanchi112Your stupid, Raker didn't beat Ds in anyway, he knocked him down and had him on the ground. I doubt Raker, would have defeated him, for Seid whooped the utter SHIT out of Raker, earlier on, in that story. And how could Ds do anything? The fight was interrupted TARD. Even Jebus, doesn't consider that a big deal. Now buzz off, you suck.
raker had darkseid on his ass on the ground. the fight ended with darkseid showing nothing to the effect of doing anything to raker. its obvious that when he took away ds omega effect that darkseid lost.
Originally posted by starkinghe had him on the ground, thank goodness for darkseids sake the fight was interrupted becuz he wasnt getting trashed, and was kept down by a shovel 😆 . fight was all raker before darkseid was saved. darkseid lost to doomsday. darkseid lost to superman recenlty multiple times. it just supporst what i say. take the omega effect out and darkseid isnt so special. a shovel 😆
Your stupid, Raker didn't beat Ds in anyway, he knocked him down and had him on the ground. I doubt Raker, would have defeated him, for Seid whooped the utter SHIT out of Raker, earlier on, in that story. And how could Ds do anything? The fight was interrupted TARD. Even Jebus, doesn't consider that a big deal. Now buzz off, you suck.
