Darth Bane vs Darth Sion

Originally posted by Thousand
You can't just instantly loop back into the force. It takes training, as shown with the Exile.

The exile was cut off from the force it is a completely different situation then this technique. Which I take you are not familiar with.

Nihilus drained her in that instant, he had the opportunity to kill her. She was stripped of her Lightsaber and the force. She was absolutely defenseless.This could also mean Nihilus has another technique for draining the force, seeing as it was not visually noticeable. Maybe he can dish out a drain that eliminates the force THAT is completely unstoppable.

If she was drained than Nihilus and Sion are retards for not killing her. And if the force was eliminated from her shouldn't regain through the course of the game because it is a diff. situation than what happened to the exile. And besides once u go to telos she does have force powers because i remember using them while on route to atris's hidden academy. And he has only one drain until proven otherwise by a source.

And I mean to disrespect at all to you Darth Sexy but thousand u say u have little time to respond but u responded to sexy who has entered in later than me and janus but we having arguing/waiting for your response from you for a while now.

The "Only advantage"? What ... Stripping Revan of the force is Nihilus' "Only advantage"? You're a funny guy.

Yes thousand that is Nihilus's only advantage if it one at all. You said Nihilus was a "physical beast" yet he has been in one known duel/battle and he lost it. So how exactly is he a physical beast. Meanwhile Revan has been in more duels and won. He defeated Madanlore the Ulitmate in single combat, he defeated Yusanis the legendary echini genral, he went on to defeat a star forged powered Bastilla 4 times and then he went on to defeat a Star Forged power Malak who is described as nearly unstoppable that should give an idea on Revan's skills in combat.

And now I will quote myself

And in the force department Nihilus only has the one technique and better tk then revan. Revan as sexy said has all of korriban and malachor V. In PoD Bane says that he had learn more from Revan's holocron than he learned on Korriban.(or something along those lines). Not only that but Bane was scarred of some of the techniques Revan knew. And he told Kaan about the thought bomb (which he also learned from Revan's holocron) so I doubt he would tell Kaan an attack that he was frightened of especially since Bane viewed kaan and the brotherhood as weak. This leads me to believe that the thought bomb was not the attack Bane was referring to that he was scared. And not to mention Revan's version of the force storm that killed several rakatan scouting parties at once in an instant.

And I mean to disrespect at all to you Darth Sexy but thousand u say u have little time to respond but u responded to sexy who has entered in later than me and janus but we having arguing/waiting for your response from you for a while now.

I meant to no disrespect to u sexy my bad 🙁 i just noticed the typo but i find it annoying that thousand says he has no time to respond yet he responds to u even if me and janus have been arguing with this guy form page 1 and still havent gotten a repsonse

lol

OMGZ0RRRRR

The Exile beat Nihilus!!!111

He must be SOOOO weak!!

But wait!

Obi-Wan Kenobi beat AnakiN Skywalker!!!!!

Anakin must be SO weak!

There's really no point in posting anything new. I've proven this BS wrong time and time again.

See the part in bold to thoroughly trash the idea the Exile beat him is even close to representing his power.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EogIiuZI9PQ
"This ship… is it his weakness? It should not exist, yet it cruises the darkness between the stars. He tore it from the mass shadows of Malachor, along with his fleet… that is a measure of his power."
--Tobin

So, can Revan move a ship with his TK? Or an entire fleet?

Can he make the ship move when it is completely unspaceworthy with breaches in the hull?

http://www.swtimeline.ru/comics/Tale...lume_6_191.jpg

"When my Lord spoke, every living thing on Katarr died."

So, we got killing a planet full of Jedi and a Force-sensitive race “with a word.” Plus lifting his ship out of Malachor.

Now to address a minor issue someone will probably raise and further detial his power.

Nihilus Was Beaten By The Exile

This is true but Obi-Wan beating Anakin is true as well. We must actually look at what we know - the factors involved to understand the context in which this fight took place.

First and foremost, what shape was Nihilus in prior to the fight with the Exile?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EogIiuZI9PQ

1:49

"The Master suffers... If he can not feed, then the hunger begins to consume him The planet Telos... He may feed on something upon its surface to sustain himself a while longer."

2:33
"[Kreia] spoke of the Jedi academy here on Telos...and my Master was forced to come here." -Tobin

2:54
"If there are no Jedi here, then my Lord cannot feed his hunger. He will destroy the planet, the station... he will cleanse it of life. ...and if there are no Jedi below, he will have no other choice."

So...this is the shape Nihilus is in. He “suffers” and is “forced” to come to Telos to try and “sustain him[self] a while longer.”(2:01)

So, the Exile, Visas and the Mandalore all proceed to the bridge of The Ravager and confront Nihilus.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OV8iniopJ3U

The subtitles aren’t in English but it’s the clearest vid I could find of this.

At 00:34, Nihilus stuns the Exile. Exile is totally defenseless. Nihilus already won the fight you could say. He can just chop of the Exile’s head here and now.

But he chooses not to. He chooses, because he “suffers”, to try and drain the Exile. (1:08) He then falls down before getting back up, withdrawing his saber and preparing to fight.

So, let’s go over what we know.

-Nihilus “suffers” because he needs to feed and was “forced” to come to Telos as a desperate attempt to “sustain him[self] a while longer.”

-He had the Exile at his mercy and chose to try and drain her, thus further weakening himself.

Jump to the end of the fight. After the Mandalore, Visas and the Exile have been assaulting him.

What were the results of that initial conflict?

Visas: “He... is too powerful...” (1:56)

So, the only canon account we have of how that first skirmish went was that apparently he was either beating the crap out of all of them or whatever they did had no effect. And this is him doubly weakened.

So, that’s all there is to it.

Yes, the Exile beat him but the circumstances and facts more than make that a wholly pointless blackmark on Nihilus’ power. Also, geniuses, it was 3 on 1. So it be better to say the Exile, Visas and the Mandalore beat Nihilus.

Now to Darth Traya’s/Kreia’s recollection of her downfall.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D2bcS4uZWtY

As we see, Nihilus easily tosses around a Jedi Master and his former tutor but that is not all.

What Traya later says happened to her:

"And there would be those, like me, who have had the Force stripped from them."

So, tallying up all of Nihilus displayed powers:

-the ability to destroy every living thing on a planet “with a word.”
-the ability to pull starships away with telekinesis.
-the ability, while weakened, to stun people with a gesture. Can Revan, going by canon showings, resist such a power?
-the ability to make a wrecked old skeleton starship fly through space while simultaneously keeping the crew all alive.

And and how can I forget.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Wt4fwDx1lE

Force Choke.

Let us also not forget this tidbit from the god awful Legacy Comics.

http://www.swtimeline.ru/?comics=646&page=070

He could move his consciousness into a set of armor to “escape death”

If you want quotes to match Kreia’s BS about looking at Revan is like looking at the heart of the Force....

Something with a bit more substance.

Kreia on Nihilus:
"One cannot have power of that magnitude and still think and perceive the universe as we do."

"his mere presence kills all around him, slowly, feeding him."

This is actually a large interest of mine. They place an emphasis somewhat on how Nihilus sees things. It’s different from normal people as clearly stated by Traya and then further explained by Tobin. Ote this exchange.

Visas: I do not believe he knows his ship has been boarded. And if he did, he would not care. The extent of his power can not be put into words. And his perceptions have grown as well. To him...

Tobin: You are dust motes in a storm. A grain upon the beach and as insignificant as a body that orbits the graveyard of Malachor.

Canderous: If he’s so powerful, why hasn’t he stopped us, then?

Tobin: It is because he sees planets, stars...not people. To him, the planet below, the station with its teeming life, only that is massive enough to demand his attention.

So...Revan is stronger than Nihilus? WHy?

GIVE ME ONE FEAT OF HIS THAT MATCHES NIHILUS' POWER.

Do it or concede.

Nihilus has displayed more power and more abilities than Revan.

OMG! Revan knows so much! He studied on Malachor and Bane was scared of his techniques!!

This sounds like the baseless gibberish of the Ancient Sith overraters who use nothing more than various quotes as a foundation for their arguments. Un-quantified statements at that.
He knows a lot of techniques. Great. Will yoU ASSUME with NO BASIS that the ability to defeat Nihilus is in that knowledge?

Will yoU ASSUME from these statements that Revan is stronger than Nihilus? When we flatly see powers far above Revan's displayed? Hell, we see MORE from Nihilus than Revan. Nihilus by showings knows more abilities than Revan.

End of discussion till someone presents a reason why Revan wins. Either they show proof he knows an ability to block Nihilus' drain, or has power enough to fight off Nihilus' TK or anything like that.

You know we arent just arguing about nihilus here? Thousand has stated that all members of the triumvirate were greater than revan which i highly doubt and that was what i was arguing. Than thousand said nihilus is a physical beast which he hasnt shown anything to be one. I was arguing that Revan knew a greater variety of force powers than nihulis like the force storm and thought bomb. And even u have to agree that revan has shown more in duels than nihilus has which leads me to believe in a sabers only battle revan>nihilus. And just to point i did originally state that nihilus is probably the only one that could beat revan Sorry if it didnt sound like that. And u just need to calm down a little.

You know we arent just arguing about nihilus here? Thousand has stated that all members of the triumvirate were greater than revan which i highly doubt and that was what i was arguing.

Then that is wrong.

Traya clearly acknowledges Revan as her superior and Sion knows nothing of techniques, as she also notes.

And even u have to agree that revan has shown more in duels than nihilus has which leads me to believe in a sabers only battle revan>nihilus

Do we even have any showings of Nihilus in a lightsaber duel?

And u just need to calm down a little.

I'm sorry.

I was a bit bitter from another forum where people aslo said Revan was stronger and no one listed a single feat to prove it. Gets aggrivating y aknow. When you spend a lot of time making proof and a case and the other side ignores it.

Sorry again. Didn't mean to take it out on you.

Originally posted by Nikkolas
Then that is wrong.
Traya clearly acknowledges Revan as her superior and Sion knows nothing of techniques, as she also notes.

Do we even have any showings of Nihilus in a lightsaber duel?

We dont but thousand has called nihilus as "physical beast" when he hasnt shown much in that department. So i was posting what revan has done in duels.

I'm sorry. I was a bit bitter from another forum where people aslo said Revan was stronger and no one listed a single feat to prove it. Gets aggrivating y aknow. When you spend a lot of time making proof and a case and the other side ignores it.

Sorry again. Didn't mean to take it out on you.

And no problem man, i suggest u read the entire thread to know where me and others were coming from.

Originally posted by Nikkolas
lol

OMGZ0RRRRR

The Exile beat Nihilus!!!111

He must be SOOOO weak!!

But wait!

Obi-Wan Kenobi beat AnakiN Skywalker!!!!!

Anakin must be SO weak!

End of discussion till someone presents a reason why Revan wins. Either they show proof he knows an ability to block Nihilus' drain, or has power enough to fight off Nihilus' TK or anything like that.

They aren't the same things Nihilus fanboy.

Um, yes they are. They are both fights with a thing called circumstance which renders the victor pointless.

Obi-Wan beat Anakin not because he was superior but because Anakin was not in his right mind. Plus Obi knew him very well.

Exile beat Nihilus because Nihilus was double-weakened plus the Exile had 2 people helping her, one of them an apprentice of the person the Exile was fighting.

And yet I've proven your Tobin remark is nothing more than a fallible 3rd party character.

And yet, you didn't prove it wrong. So..you proved nothing except to say you'll ignore the quote and say it's wrong based on your own bias.

GOlly Gee what an argument. Because Character X hasn't shown to perform the same feat as Character Y, character X MUST be inferior.

I can see where you're coming from.

I mean...just because Nihilus shows more power than Revan doesn't mean anything.

We shouldn't use feats and showings to prove things.

I've seen the light.

Did Nihilus perform a thought bomb?

Did Revan?

In fact, Nihilus did something more powerful than a Thought Bomb all on his own power.

Did Nihilus have techniques that would make other sith shit their pants?

I dunno.

Is a guy on a ship in orbit killing a planet and every thing on it with a word an ability that would make Sith shit their pants?

But who would find that terrifying?

Techniques that surpass all the teachings on Korriban? Hell no.

A. List me these "teachings on Korriban". Do any of them show the ability to kill an entire planet's inhabitants and make the whole planet an echo in the Force?

B. Did Revan show this technique you speak of?

Except nothing is known about the jedi on Katarr. THere may have been 5 of them for all you know.

So now you're attacking the feat 'cause there weren't that many Jedi on the planet?

I mean, when you have to lower yourself to sayin g"but there wasn't even that many people on the planet he killed!" it shows you're really reaching.

You can quote all of this nonsense but in the end the Exile beat him because she was a wound in the force, which is the way to beat Nihilus..

Exactly. The Exile beat Nihilus because he was double-weakened and the Exile had two helpers.

Also, you conveniently skipped the part I showed where Nihilus, with a gesture, had the Exile at his mercy.

Except if everything died when he spoke, then Traya, Visas, Sion, and all of of Nihilus slaves would be dead. Try again.

Take it up with what the comic depicts.

It's not my duty to argue with someone who blatantly ignores canon.

Furthermore I have proven that it is more than likely Revan also knows this force eating technique, which could have been the one Bane was terrified of. Revan plundered Korriban and the cities of Malachor V.. It's a logical conclusion.

Except it's nothing more than baseless theory. Thus, I don't care. I deal with facts.

Explain why we have to see Revan perform feats for us to logically deduce he is uber powerful?

Because none of the quotes you people use are quantifiable.

They do not say "he is the strongest Sith to this date or ever"

They do not list the abilities he has.

They just say he's strong and knows crap.

What crap? That's not clarified and is thus worthless.

We don't have a what or a how.

How can you say Revan is the strongest without an actual detailing of what he can do?

He plundered the CITIES ON MALACHOR V while Nihilus didn't

Um...Nihilus didn't want to...that's like saying Person A beat up a a3-year-old and you didn't. It's not a feat. It just shows one person didnt' bother.

and Nihilus learned one technique

STOP EFFING LYING.

For God's Sake DS, you just quotes from a list of abilities and you said Nihilus only knows one technique and you've been parroting that lie for months.

Originally posted by Nikkolas
Um, yes they are. They are both fights with a thing called circumstance which renders the victor pointless.

Obi-Wan beat Anakin not because he was superior but because Anakin was not in his right mind. Plus Obi knew him very well.

Exile beat Nihilus because Nihilus was double-weakened plus the Exile had 2 people helping her, one of them an apprentice of the person the Exile was fighting.

[B]STOP EFFING LYING.

For God's Sake DS, you just quotes from a list of abilities and you said Nihilus only knows one technique and you've been parroting that lie for months. [/B]

Except it's nothing more than baseless theory. Thus, I don't care. I deal with facts.

It is not exactly baseless i did put reason into my thinking when i said that, but Im not saying what it could be that the attack that bane was afraid but im fairly positive it was not the thought bomb as i said here

And in the force department Nihilus only has the one technique and better tk then revan.That we know of anyway Revan as sexy said has all of korriban and malachor V. In PoD Bane says that he had learn more from Revan's holocron than he learned on Korriban.(or something along those lines). Not only that but Bane was scarred of some of the techniques Revan knew. And he told Kaan about the thought bomb (which he also learned from Revan's holocron) so I doubt he would tell Kaan an attack that he was frightened of especially since Bane viewed kaan and the brotherhood as weak. This leads me to believe that the thought bomb was not the attack Bane was referring to that he was scared. And not to mention Revan's version of the force storm that killed several rakatan scouting parties at once in an instant.

I would also say that it would make little sense for Bane to give them an attack that he was scarred of because it must have been a threat to him if it were used at all and bane didnt seem that scared of the thought bomb to me. And he felt that he was the one that need to reorganize the sith so he wouldnt give them an attack that could be used against him.

dude is it just me or did nikkolas go on 3 forums and under cut and dissagree on each of them?......huh.

No. The Exile beat Nihilus because Nihilus needs to feed to survive, and the Exile was a wound in the force, creating a reverse affect against Nihilus. This is NOT a circumstance, therefore it has no comparison to the other fight. Nihilus would NEVER defeat the Exile if he tried to drain her.

Yep. So, like I said, Exile beat Nihilus by 3-on-1 and Nihilus being double-weakened.

Oh and of course, Nihilus could have killed her effortlessly.

Wrong fanboy, I've proven that your quotes are coming from fallible 3rd party sources and most of them are contradictory with what actually happened.

So, like I said, he's canon. You're not.

Show me where the thought bomb requires more than 1 person. As I recall Revan was doing force storms all by himself, whereas Bane used the entire BOD..

From Wookie
"Formed through an ancient ritual requiring the combined will of many powerful Sith Lords"

Except I've disproved your "with a word" theory. Stop adding it..

Shown canon > what you think.

Well gee, considering the technique DERIVED FROM THE ANCIENT SITH, YES. Revan plundered Korriban, where the greatest of the ancient sith were buried, where the technique was created. Revan plundered Malachor V, where Nihilus learned the technique. But all of a sudden he doesn't know it and Nihilus does.

Quote saying what he did was derived from the Ancient Sith/

You've said this many times but never proved it.

Why would he have to show it to know it? That's like saying Palpatine has to show his instakill for people to think he has it.

Since when does Palpatine have an instakill?

No, I corrected your exaggeration.

Nope. As canon shows, he killed every living being on a planet and the planet itself effortlessly.

Except Nihilus lost because the Exile was a wound and when he tried feeding on the wound, he became weak. His companions had nothing to do with it. Stop making excuses for your hero.

Yep. Like I proved, he was double-weakened and still was pwning 3 opponents.

Apparently it's not your job to argue period, since you have no idea what canon policy is. I'd stop right here if I were you.

I know it's not my theories and opinion.

Unlike you who has nothing for anything you say.

Except it's not baseless just because you don't want to believe it fanboy.

Then PROVE it.

SHOW ME the quote saying it was the drain.

If not, IT IS BASELESS.

Either put up or shut up.

Show me why Revan could beat Nihilus. Show me how he is more powerful.

Show me how he is superior to a guy who kills planets with a word as seen in canon. Show me how Revan is stronger than a guy who lifts a fleet from a gravity well as said by canon.

nikkolas u and ds have used what i said in the wrong context.See my post 2 above yours for what i originally said.

This is why I don't argue with Nikkolas. His logic consists of "Show me a quote where character X is stated better than Character Y or it's not true". Please Nikkolas, nobody is going to dig up something that specific because you want it. I've already proven through logical deduction that Revan knowing Nihilus' technique was not a possibility, but more than likely, a certainty. Now stop bitching.

Well, pardon me.

I mean...I'm really unethical today.

First I bring up showings of power as evidence.

Then I ask you to back up your claims.

I'm being downright ridiculous!

I gave you my evidence based on logical conclusion, while you gave a bunch of 3rd party crap. Again I ask you fanboy. How is it illogical to deduce that Revan, who plundered ALL of the cities of Malachor V, doesn't know the technique that Nihilus learned WHILE BEING ON THE SURFACE FOR A SHORT TIME. Argue that one fanboy.

Because techniques require power.

Darth Maul is not gonna pull off a Force Storm, even if he knows it.

If Revan knew the technique, he might not be strong enough to use it.

Or can you provide a quote or action that shows Revan being stronger in the Force than Nihilus?

Originally posted by Nikkolas
Because techniques require power.

And revan was described to be the strongest force user of his era

Proof? Source?

Anything?

Was this made in KOTOR I, before Nihilus was even thought of or in power?