Re: End up in Hell if you stole a Penny ?
Originally posted by Goddess Kali
The [b]basis of the question is would you End up in Hell if you steal a penny?Now..for the sake of avoiding repetitive and circular arguments, as well as semantics and loose circumstances, I will clarify the confines of the question, so i can get a straight answer:
Let's say a child grows up in a (Christian, Jewish, or Muslim) household, and this child specifically adheres to the teachings of either (the Torah, Bible, or Quran, whichever u beleive) to the best they can, always conciously, and this child's parents have a strict discipline to thier basis of Faith.
The child grows upto teenage years, having never disobeyed a rule, not conciously, always having the intent to serve thier God, to obey thier parents and live by thier Faith as best he or she can.
But one day, this teenager, sees a person drop thier penny on the floor, and steals it.
The stole.
They have sinned, with intention.
They die the day after, without having sed they are sorry, without the slighest bit of remourse, but knowing they have done something against the discipline of thier Faith.
Will this person end up in Hell ? For one sin ? Why or why not ?
* I sincerely Hope someone with brains gets the intent of this question....otherwise, I give up 🙄 [/B]
According to the Koran, God is full of infinite mercy, so I don't think Muslims would be too concerned
But in the Bible, its a big deal, so if stealing something as meager as a penny is enough to spend eternity in Satan's Hilton, then my reservation is prepped and waiting for me.
Originally posted by Sandai Kitetsu
Well, of course it's unjust, that's an obvious answer. You seem to be hell bent in making these type of threads. Just to play "Devils Advocate" with Christians, why? 😕
Just because I question Christianity does not mean I hate it. I've been Christian for 18 years of my life, and I feel the right to critisize it as much as I want.
I am critisizing idealogy, not people.
Secondly, the reason for this thread is simple. Many Christians, particularly Evangelicals, beleive that people deserve to go to Hell, eternal torment, even if they didn't kill or rape someone.
That means being a liar, homosexual, cheater, adulterer, heathen, or fornicator is enough to get you deserving of eternal torment, and somehow God is still supposed to be all loving.
Many Christians will argue that "All Sins are Equal in the Eyes of God", as an excuse to justify Hell.
That is the problem I have with the Christian concept of Hell...well, one of many. No one answered my other questions...
Originally posted by Goddess Kali
Just because I question Christianity does not mean I hate it. I've been Christian for 18 years of my life, and I feel the right to critisize it as much as I want.I am critisizing idealogy, not people.Secondly, the reason for this thread is simple. Many Christians, particularly Evangelicals, beleive that people deserve to go to Hell, eternal torment, even if they didn't kill or rape someone.
I never implied or stated that you hate Christianity, but your making these threads just for the sake of debate. I mean what's the point of constantly arguing a group of people that believe these kinda things?
What effect will it have on you that they believe in some magical place where all immoral people go after death. It's of no consequence to you what Christians believe. People will always have different beliefs, that's life. Why make threads to argue what someone believe's, just because it does not agree with yours? I'm not saying your wrong. But, it seems really pointless Especially if your whole reasoning behind it is to find an answer that justify's your contempt of Christian morals. 😬
Originally posted by Goddess KaliThat is the problem I have with the Christian concept of Hell...well, one of many. No one answered my other questions...
Your looking for an answer that justify's your belief versus an authentic one., though.
Originally posted by Sandai Kitetsu
I never implied or stated that you hate Christianity, but your making these threads just for the sake of debate. I mean what's the point of constantly arguing a group of people that believe these kinda things?
What effect will it have on you that they believe in some magical place where all immoral people go after death. It's of no consequence to you what Christians believe. People will always have different beliefs, that's life. Why make threads to argue what someone believe's, just because it does not agree with yours? I'm not saying your wrong. But, it seems really pointless Especially if your whole reasoning behind it is to find an answer that justify's your contempt of Christian morals. 😬
Christianity is a powerful idealogy which has shaped and influenced civilization for over a thousand years.
It is the greatest power in my country, actually in this continent, and effects my life every single day, as well as the lives of others.
It being a massive, influential phenomena, I have every right to challenge it, as do others.
Challenging Christianity is not pointless. Challening Greek mythology would be, however. I am sure you figure out why, and what the difference is.
Originally posted by Sandai Kitetsu
Your looking for an answer that justify's your belief versus an authentic one., though.
the what ?
Originally posted by Goddess Kali
Christianity is a powerful idealogy which has shaped and influenced civilization for over a thousand years.It is the greatest power in my country, actually in this continent, and effects my life every single day, as well as the lives of others.It being a massive, influential phenomena, I have every right to challenge it, as do others.
Christianity didn't spread because of it's ideology or it's belief for the most part. It spread by supressing rival cults at the time. Furthermore, your all over the place. First you claim your against Evangelical Christian ideals and now it's just Christian ideals?
Second of all, your no really different from Christians really. You disagree with Christian morals because they contradict your own. Furthermore, I don't you even understand said christian morals to begin with. These threads aren't pointless, but if your just looking to justify your own predisposed opinion of Christianity, what's the point?
Originally posted by Goddess Kali
Challenging Christianity is not pointless. Challening Greek mythology would be, however. I am sure you figure out why, and what the difference is.
It's pointless when the only answer your looking for is: "Yes, Christianity is wrong" 😬
Originally posted by Sandai Kitetsu
Christianity didn't spread because of it's ideology or it's belief for the most part. It spread by supressing rival cults at the time. Furthermore, your all over the place. First you claim your against Evangelical Christian ideals and now it's just Christian ideals?
I am not against Christianity. It is a religion which has right to exist, since it serves to make many people happy. But it is clearly not perfect or infallible by many of its followers claim.
If anyone challenges Buddhism, I encourage them to do so. Even I question my own religion, very often.
And it seems to me your are unaware of the influence Christianity has over much of the world, else you wouldn't have disagreed with my statement like you did here.
Originally posted by Sandai Kitetsu
Second of all, your no really different from Christians really. You disagree with Christian morals because they contradict your own. Furthermore, I don't you even understand said christian morals to begin with. These threads aren't pointless, but if your just looking to justify your own predisposed opinion of Christianity, what's the point?
What Christian morals do I disagree with ?
"Love Thy Neighbor" and "Treat others as thou wish to be treated" are morals I agree with very highly.
There are other aspects of Christianity that I do not agree with, but I bet you don't even know what they are.
And I am not the only person who challenges Christianity.
Originally posted by Sandai Kitetsu
It's pointless when the only answer your looking for is: "Yes, Christianity is wrong" 😬
I beleive it is just a religion, man made, a series of human history and wisdom put together. Nothing wrong with that. But until Christians stop claiming thier religion absolute truth, I will still challenge that, and I have every right to.
I don't wanna derail your thread, So, I'll get to the point. As far as I know, nowhwere in the Tanakh/Bible does it state that one will go to hell for commiting a certain sin. The Bible condemns certain Sins, but the only person that will judge is GOD. So, your premise is flawd because, even if it's a sin to steal. No one can decide who goes where, but the lord.
Originally posted by Sandai Kitetsu
I don't wanna derail your thread, So, I'll get to the point. As far as I know, nowhwere in the Tanakh/Bible does it state that one will go to hell for commiting a certain sin. The Bible condemns certain Sins, but the only person that will judge is GOD. So, your premise is flawd because, even if it's a sin to steal. No one can decide who goes where, but the lord.
However, Christians on KMC have claimed that all sins are equal. That is the point of this thread. So whether or not you murdered someone, or whether you stole a penny is irrelevant to some Christians, because God sees all sins as the same.
These Christians have supported thier claims through scripture, although one can easily dismiss thier claims using contradicting scripture.
Originally posted by Goddess Kali
However, Christians on KMC have claimed that all sins are equal. That is the point of this thread. So whether or not you murdered someone, or whether you stole a penny is irrelevant to some Christians, because God sees all sins as the same.These Christians have supported thier claims through scripture, although one can easily dismiss thier claims using contradicting scripture.
What scriptures, I want see these scriptures that claim you will go to hell for stealing a penny.
Originally posted by Goddess KaliHe stole and didn't beg for forgiveness. He rots in hell.
The [b]basis of the question is would you End up in Hell if you steal a penny?Now..for the sake of avoiding repetitive and circular arguments, as well as semantics and loose circumstances, I will clarify the confines of the question, so i can get a straight answer:
Let's say a child grows up in a (Christian, Jewish, or Muslim) household, and this child specifically adheres to the teachings of either (the Torah, Bible, or Quran, whichever u beleive) to the best they can, always conciously, and this child's parents have a strict discipline to thier basis of Faith.
The child grows upto teenage years, having never disobeyed a rule, not conciously, always having the intent to serve thier God, to obey thier parents and live by thier Faith as best he or she can.
But one day, this teenager, sees a person drop thier penny on the floor, and steals it.
The stole.
They have sinned, with intention.
They die the day after, without having sed they are sorry, without the slighest bit of remourse, but knowing they have done something against the discipline of thier Faith.
Will this person end up in Hell ? For one sin ? Why or why not ?
* I sincerely Hope someone with brains gets the intent of this question....otherwise, I give up 🙄 [/B]
Originally posted by Sandai Kitetsu
What scriptures, I want see these scriptures that claim you will go to hell for stealing a penny.
Originally posted by Sandai Kitetsu
However, Christians on KMC have claimed that all sins are equal. That is the point of this thread. So whether or not you murdered someone, or whether you stole a penny is irrelevant to some Christians, because God sees all sins as the same.
Re: End up in Hell if you stole a Penny ?
*["...Let's say a child grows up in a (Christian, Jewish, or Muslim) household, and this child specifically adheres to the teachings of either (the Torah, Bible, or Quran, whichever u beleive) to the best they can, always conciously, and this child's parents have a strict discipline to thier basis of Faith.
The child grows upto teenage years, having never disobeyed a rule, not conciously, always having the intent to serve thier God, to obey thier parents and live by thier Faith as best he or she can.
But one day, this teenager, sees a person drop thier penny on the floor, and steals it.
The stole.
They have sinned, with intention.
They die the day after, without having sed they are sorry, without the slighest bit of remourse, but knowing they have done something against the discipline of thier Faith.
Will this person end up in Hell ? For one sin ? Why or why not ?...
***That person will end up in Hell...even if he kept ALL of the conditions above...and here is WHY:
(1)He/she is a BORN sinner because his/her parents were sinners and begat him/her. When Adam sinned in the garden of Eden, he was sentenced to DEATH by God because he became a SINNER by his disobedience: "In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou RETURN unto the GROUND; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou ART, and dust shalt thou RETURN" [Genesis 3:19]. Adam was innocent before he sinned and he walked with God in the garden. When he sinned, he LOST his "innocense"...he became a sinner. His NATURE changed and he passed this sin nature on down to his children...[i.e., his firstborn Cain slew his brother Abel]. Therefore, EVERY human being [i.e., with the EXCEPTION of Jesus Christ] is a born SINNER...for the Scripture confirms: "For ALL have sinned and fall SHORT of the glory of God" [Romans 3:23]...and again "As it is written, there is NONE righteous, no NOT ONE: There is NONE that understandeth, there is NONE that seeketh after God" [Romans 3:10-11].
When Adam sinned he died SPIRITUALLY immediately...he lost his SPIRITUAL LIFE before God [Genesis 3:3]. He also lost his PHYSICAL life in death years later..."For the WAGES of SIN is DEATH..."[Romans 6:23].
(2)You stated that the person died the day after he/she stole the penny..."without the slightest bit of remorse." But of course, he/she died without remorse...a testimonial of their lost SPIRITUAL condition before God...and acted out their true spiritual condition. They were sinners.
(3)There is NO gradation of sin before God...for ALL sin is DEADLY no matter how "small"...for it is written: "For the WAGES of sin is DEATH, but the GIFT of God is ETERNAL life THROUGH Jesus Christ our Lord" [Romans 6:23].
BOTTOM-LINE: ALL men are SINNERS and ALL will surely DIE. Those who die in their sins WITHOUT Jesus Christ as their Saviour and Lord will die the DEATH in HELL [Romans 6:23]. It doesn't have to end that way though. The GOOD NEWS is...Jesus died for your sins and paid their penalty for you. He RANSOMED you FROM their PUNISHMENT and took that punishment FOR you...because He LOVED you Kali. NONE of your other "lovers" would actually give their lives for you...but Jesus DID so that you might have ETERNAL LIFE in Him. He will CHANGE your SINFUL NATURE and you will become a "New Creation" in Him. You then will be assured of Eternal Life instead of ETERNAL DEATH in HELL.
Marchello
Re: Re: End up in Hell if you stole a Penny ?
Originally posted by Marchello
[B]*["...Let's say a child grows up in a (Christian, Jewish, or Muslim) household, and this child specifically adheres to the teachings of either (the Torah, Bible, or Quran, whichever u beleive) to the best they can, always conciously, and this child's parents have a strict discipline to thier basis of Faith.The child grows upto teenage years, having never disobeyed a rule, not conciously, always having the intent to serve thier God, to obey thier parents and live by thier Faith as best he or she can.
But one day, this teenager, sees a person drop thier penny on the floor, and steals it.
The stole.
They have sinned, with intention.
They die the day after, without having sed they are sorry, without the slighest bit of remourse, but knowing they have done something against the discipline of thier Faith.
Will this person end up in Hell ? For one sin ? Why or why not ?...
***That person will end up in Hell...even if he kept ALL of the conditions above...and here is WHY:
(1)He/she is a BORN sinner because his/her parents were sinners and begat him/her. When Adam sinned in the garden of Eden, he was sentenced to DEATH by God because he became a SINNER by his disobedience: "In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou RETURN unto the GROUND; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou ART, and dust shalt thou RETURN" [Genesis 3:19]. Adam was innocent before he sinned and he walked with God in the garden. When he sinned, he LOST his "innocense"...he became a sinner. His NATURE changed and he passed this sin nature on down to his children...[i.e., his firstborn Cain slew his brother Abel]. Therefore, EVERY human being [i.e., with the EXCEPTION of Jesus Christ] is a born SINNER...for the Scripture confirms: "For ALL have sinned and fall SHORT of the glory of God" [Romans 3:23]...and again "As it is written, there is NONE righteous, no NOT ONE: There is NONE that understandeth, there is NONE that seeketh after God" [Romans 3:10-11].
When Adam sinned he died SPIRITUALLY immediately...he lost his SPIRITUAL LIFE before God [Genesis 3:3]. He also lost his PHYSICAL life in death years later..."For the WAGES of SIN is DEATH..."[Romans 6:23].
(2)You stated that the person died the day after he/she stole the penny..."without the slightest bit of remorse." But of course, he/she died without remorse...a testimonial of their lost SPIRITUAL condition before God...and acted out their true spiritual condition. They were sinners.
(3)There is NO gradation of sin before God...for ALL sin is DEADLY no matter how "small"...for it is written: "For the WAGES of sin is DEATH, but the GIFT of God is ETERNAL life THROUGH Jesus Christ our Lord" [Romans 6:23].
BOTTOM-LINE: ALL men are SINNERS and ALL will surely DIE. Those who die in their sins WITHOUT Jesus Christ as their Saviour and Lord will die the DEATH in HELL [Romans 6:23]. It doesn't have to end that way though. The GOOD NEWS is...Jesus died for your sins and paid their penalty for you. He RANSOMED you FROM their PUNISHMENT and took that punishment FOR you...because He LOVED you Kali. NONE of your other "lovers" would actually give their lives for you...but Jesus DID so that you might have ETERNAL LIFE in Him. He will CHANGE your SINFUL NATURE and you will become a "New Creation" in Him. You then will be assured of Eternal Life instead of ETERNAL DEATH in HELL.
Marchello [/B]
I'm sure glad this is not the truth.
Re: Re: End up in Hell if you stole a Penny ?
Originally posted by Marchello
[B]*["...Let's say a child grows up in a (Christian, Jewish, or Muslim) household, and this child specifically adheres to the teachings of either (the Torah, Bible, or Quran, whichever u beleive) to the best they can, always conciously, and this child's parents have a strict discipline to thier basis of Faith.The child grows upto teenage years, having never disobeyed a rule, not conciously, always having the intent to serve thier God, to obey thier parents and live by thier Faith as best he or she can.
But one day, this teenager, sees a person drop thier penny on the floor, and steals it.
The stole.
They have sinned, with intention.
They die the day after, without having sed they are sorry, without the slighest bit of remourse, but knowing they have done something against the discipline of thier Faith.
Will this person end up in Hell ? For one sin ? Why or why not ?...
***That person will end up in Hell...even if he kept ALL of the conditions above...and here is WHY:
(1)He/she is a BORN sinner because his/her parents were sinners and begat him/her. When Adam sinned in the garden of Eden, he was sentenced to DEATH by God because he became a SINNER by his disobedience: "In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou RETURN unto the GROUND; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou ART, and dust shalt thou RETURN" [Genesis 3:19]. Adam was innocent before he sinned and he walked with God in the garden. When he sinned, he LOST his "innocense"...he became a sinner. His NATURE changed and he passed this sin nature on down to his children...[i.e., his firstborn Cain slew his brother Abel]. Therefore, EVERY human being [i.e., with the EXCEPTION of Jesus Christ] is a born SINNER...for the Scripture confirms: "For ALL have sinned and fall SHORT of the glory of God" [Romans 3:23]...and again "As it is written, there is NONE righteous, no NOT ONE: There is NONE that understandeth, there is NONE that seeketh after God" [Romans 3:10-11].
When Adam sinned he died SPIRITUALLY immediately...he lost his SPIRITUAL LIFE before God [Genesis 3:3]. He also lost his PHYSICAL life in death years later..."For the WAGES of SIN is DEATH..."[Romans 6:23].
(2)You stated that the person died the day after he/she stole the penny..."without the slightest bit of remorse." But of course, he/she died without remorse...a testimonial of their lost SPIRITUAL condition before God...and acted out their true spiritual condition. They were sinners.
(3)There is NO gradation of sin before God...for ALL sin is DEADLY no matter how "small"...for it is written: "For the WAGES of sin is DEATH, but the GIFT of God is ETERNAL life THROUGH Jesus Christ our Lord" [Romans 6:23].
BOTTOM-LINE: ALL men are SINNERS and ALL will surely DIE. Those who die in their sins WITHOUT Jesus Christ as their Saviour and Lord will die the DEATH in HELL [Romans 6:23]. It doesn't have to end that way though. The GOOD NEWS is...Jesus died for your sins and paid their penalty for you. He RANSOMED you FROM their PUNISHMENT and took that punishment FOR you...because He LOVED you Kali. NONE of your other "lovers" would actually give their lives for you...but Jesus DID so that you might have ETERNAL LIFE in Him. He will CHANGE your SINFUL NATURE and you will become a "New Creation" in Him. You then will be assured of Eternal Life instead of ETERNAL DEATH in HELL.
Marchello [/B]
***ADDENDA: If the "pennystealer" is a saved person and subsequently stole the penny, he will not lose his salvation but will have to give an accounting of this sin and may lose some of his rewards at the Bema Seat of Christ for believers. This does not apply to other faiths, however, for they know not Jesus and are not saved.
Marchello