End up in Hell if you stole a Penny ?

When God was about to set Gomorrah on fire, Abraham petition God for at least 5 righteous. What is righteousness? Faith in God. If you have faith in God, then if you fear for your soul, maybe you need to ask God for forgiveness for ALL sins and to establish a faith relationship. And maybe skew the argument, instead of asking, "will you set me on fire for one penny?", maybe you petition or pray in view of a different mindset, "will you forgive me for stealing one?" The later question invokes a sense of remorse, the first question invokes the sense of deviance and taunt. And if you have faith in God, he'll guide your heart. I think the problem with the old testiment was that the law wasn't written in their hearts, God had asked them to do that, but the law was all they knew as well as some old fashion pagan spiritual rights that seemed to work, as that's why they continued falling back into it, which caused them to have faith in their own ability, have faith in the star/celestral system, rather then to have faith in the one who gave them those gifts, the one who set the order of the celestral system, and the one who gave them breathe or life. We can be very powerful, all of us, humans, and in that power, just like this good country, we know that power can corrupt, so we are careful. Power doesn't mean we are God, but power can make us feel drunk in the idea of being god, and playing god over the life of others. Faith, faith is righteous, and that's the only thing that God loved about Abraham, it's wasn't his bloodline or status or ability (as he used Moses too), it was Abraham's FAITH. Faith will cause you to seek God and that'll change your heart to do things that are right or righteous. But, sometimes, God does use situations that seem WRONG, such as adultery (Hagar, Bathsheba), and make us wonder why he cared for those women, and how could they be in the right? God does things that doesn't make sense to the very laws he gave us, what does that mean? Don't rest your faith solely on the laws (such as the laws of marriage, as that too can be manipulated to trap or intervene with God's plans, as if someone knows the celestral system, they can see or predict something of God's plan and work against it and then tell the world, it's an established "marriage" and get the entire clan to psychically or phsyically hurt that person), do follow the law to the best of your ability, we all have our strengths and weakness, that's why we are asked not to tempt our brothers/sisters, but don't rest your entire faith on it. Your faith is in God, then the law. That's all.

Originally posted by Czarina_Czarina
When God was about to set Gomorrah on fire, Abraham petition God for at least 5 righteous. What is righteousness? Faith in God. If you have faith in God, then if you fear for your soul, maybe you need to ask God for forgiveness for ALL sins and to establish a faith relationship.

Or maybe those are just stories that talk more about the people of the time they were written, and what they believed.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Or maybe those are just stories that talk more about the people of the time they were written, and what they believed.

My life is a story, and one day, if it's ever recited as a joke or gossip or fable, maybe parts of it will seem totally out of God's law or command depending on interpretation, but even if you don't find reminants of me in Carbon form (can't find essence of my dna anywhere), that doesn't mean that I didn't exist, nor does it exclude the act of God in my life or anyone elses.

Originally posted by Czarina_Czarina
My life is a story, and one day, if it's ever recited as a joke or gossip or fable, maybe parts of it will seem totally out of God's law or command depending on interpretation, but even if you don't find reminants of me in Carbon form (can't find essence of my dna anywhere), that doesn't mean that I didn't exist, nor does it exclude the act of God in my life or anyone elses.

Over time there have been hundreds of millions of people who believed with all their hearts in the Greek gods or the Egyptian gods. They gave all of their lives to this false belief. Why are you any better then they were? Even today, most of the population of the world, do not believe in Christianity. What makes them wrong and you right?

Originally posted by Marchello
[B]*["...Let's say a child grows up in a (Christian, Jewish, or Muslim) household, and this child specifically adheres to the teachings of either (the Torah, Bible, or Quran, whichever u beleive) to the best they can, always conciously, and this child's parents have a strict discipline to thier basis of Faith.

The child grows upto teenage years, having never disobeyed a rule, not conciously, always having the intent to serve thier God, to obey thier parents and live by thier Faith as best he or she can.

But one day, this teenager, sees a person drop thier penny on the floor, and steals it.

The stole.

They have sinned, with intention.

They die the day after, without having sed they are sorry, without the slighest bit of remourse, but knowing they have done something against the discipline of thier Faith.

Will this person end up in Hell ? For one sin ? Why or why not ?...

***That person will end up in Hell...even if he kept ALL of the conditions above...and here is WHY:

(1)He/she is a BORN sinner because his/her parents were sinners and begat him/her. When Adam sinned in the garden of Eden, he was sentenced to DEATH by God because he became a SINNER by his disobedience: "In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou RETURN unto the GROUND; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou ART, and dust shalt thou RETURN" [Genesis 3:19]. Adam was innocent before he sinned and he walked with God in the garden. When he sinned, he LOST his "innocense"...he became a sinner. His NATURE changed and he passed this sin nature on down to his children...[i.e., his firstborn Cain slew his brother Abel]. Therefore, EVERY human being [i.e., with the EXCEPTION of Jesus Christ] is a born SINNER...for the Scripture confirms: "For ALL have sinned and fall SHORT of the glory of God" [Romans 3:23]...and again "As it is written, there is NONE righteous, no NOT ONE: There is NONE that understandeth, there is NONE that seeketh after God" [Romans 3:10-11].

When Adam sinned he died SPIRITUALLY immediately...he lost his SPIRITUAL LIFE before God [Genesis 3:3]. He also lost his PHYSICAL life in death years later..."For the WAGES of SIN is DEATH..."[Romans 6:23].

(2)You stated that the person died the day after he/she stole the penny..."without the slightest bit of remorse." But of course, he/she died without remorse...a testimonial of their lost SPIRITUAL condition before God...and acted out their true spiritual condition. They were sinners.

(3)There is NO gradation of sin before God...for ALL sin is DEADLY no matter how "small"...for it is written: "For the WAGES of sin is DEATH, but the GIFT of God is ETERNAL life THROUGH Jesus Christ our Lord" [Romans 6:23].

BOTTOM-LINE: ALL men are SINNERS and ALL will surely DIE. Those who die in their sins WITHOUT Jesus Christ as their Saviour and Lord will die the DEATH in HELL [Romans 6:23]. It doesn't have to end that way though. The GOOD NEWS is...Jesus died for your sins and paid their penalty for you. He RANSOMED you FROM their PUNISHMENT and took that punishment FOR you...because He LOVED you Kali. NONE of your other "lovers" would actually give their lives for you...but Jesus DID so that you might have ETERNAL LIFE in Him. He will CHANGE your SINFUL NATURE and you will become a "New Creation" in Him. You then will be assured of Eternal Life instead of ETERNAL DEATH in HELL.

Marchello [/B]

LOL

Thanks for directly answering my question for once. This is where I was getting at.

So its true....Christianity, at its most fundamental basis, teaches that All Sins are Equal in the Eyes of God

-We inherit the sins of our fathers and mothers

-We automatically inherit the sins of Adam and Eve

-We will go to Hell for stealing a Penny

😆

Originally posted by Goddess Kali
LOL

Thanks for directly answering my question for once. This is where I was getting at.

So its true....Christianity, at its most fundamental basis, teaches that [b]All Sins are Equal in the Eyes of God

-We inherit the sins of our fathers and mothers

-We automatically inherit the sins of Adam and Eve

-We will go to Hell for stealing a Penny

😆 [/B]

No, even if we don't steal the penny, we will go to hell. 🙄

Originally posted by Marchello
BOTTOM-LINE: ALL men are SINNERS and ALL will surely DIE.

Originally posted by Da Pittman
Not fair, the women get all the breaks 😠

😆 No, women are just animals, and have no souls. 🙄

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
😆 No, women are just animals, and have no souls. 🙄

Originally posted by Da Pittman
My wife is going to hunt you down for that, but then again she is an animal in bed naughty

I'm just reporting. 😱

*["...But I am questioning what "sinfulness" actually means, and at what point does sinfulness warrant Hell ?..."]

***SINFULNESS is any transgression against God and is delineated in the Bible. All transgressions are wicked and sinful.

Adam committed the sin in the garden that resulted in the SINFULNESS and DEPRAVITY of the WHOLE human race. We are BORN in SIN and LOST the MOMENT we are BORN...and on our way to Hell. That is why God promised to send a REDEEMER [i.e., the PROTO EVANGELIUM Genesis 3:15]...through the "woman" [i.e., Israel]...a people He chose through whom He would send the Messiah. This is what prompted King David to say: "Behold, I was shapen in INIQUITY, and IN SIN did my mother CONCEIVE me" [Psalm 51:5]. David knew he was a sinner from the DAY he was BORN and needed a Saviour." From his loins was His REDEEMER gggggggggrandson Jesus come. Jesus was His grandfather David's Saviour. David knew He would come.

************************************************

*["If someone did nothing their entire life, and then stole a penny, would they end up in Hell?"]

***Yes...for the reasons I stipulated in the previous post.

************************************************

*["If someone was in a coma from age 7 to age 21, and then he stole something, then died right after, would he go to Hell ?"]

***If he was saved before he was 7 years old, he would go to heaven. If he did not know Jesus as Saviour, he would be lost. It all comes down to what you do with the Lord Jesus Christ. Only He can save the sinner.

************************************************

*["Christians like yourself, JIA, and Marcello, and others will often argue that because of our "sinfulness" we are on a path to Hell."]

***We do NOT argue that...we REPEAT what the Scriptures DECLARE about the "sinfulness" of MANKIND. Our AUTHORITY is the Word of God and NOT our own REASONINGS.

************************************************

*["People like myself, and others, have not committed murder, rape, or anything warranting eternal suffering.

The worst any of us have ever done was insult someone, lie, or maybe even steal, not to mention have "immoral" sex out of marriage..."]

***Unfortunately, for you, it is NOT you who makes the FINAL determination of what the PENALTY will be for your wanton WICKEDNESS. God will make His decision predicated on what you will do or NOT do with His SON whom He sent to redeem you. If you REJECT His graciousness and mercy toward you...you will DIE the DEATH in HELL.

************************************************

*["You won't get severe punishment or the death penalty for any of those things by Law. You won't get tortured either.

So how do you end up in Hell for those things ?"]

***Sinful man's laws are irrelevant and often at enmity with God's laws.

************************************************

*["Christianity poses so many logical issues..."]

***Nay...tis unrepentant sinners that pose the problems.

Marchello

Originally posted by Marchello
[B]*["...But I am questioning what "sinfulness" actually means, and at what point does sinfulness warrant Hell ?..."]

***SINFULNESS is any transgression against God and is delineated in the Bible. All transgressions are wicked and sinful.

Adam committed the sin in the garden that resulted in the SINFULNESS and DEPRAVITY of the WHOLE human race. We are BORN in SIN and LOST the MOMENT we are BORN...and on our way to Hell. That is why God promised to send a REDEEMER [i.e., the PROTO EVANGELIUM Genesis 3:15]...through the "woman" [i.e., Israel]...a people He chose through whom He would send the Messiah. This is what prompted King David to say: "Behold, I was shapen in INIQUITY, and IN SIN did my mother CONCEIVE me" [Psalm 51:5]. David knew he was a sinner from the DAY he was BORN and needed a Saviour." From his loins was His REDEEMER gggggggggrandson Jesus come. Jesus was His grandfather David's Saviour. David knew He would come.

************************************************

*["If someone did nothing their entire life, and then stole a penny, would they end up in Hell?"]

***Yes...for the reasons I stipulated in the previous post.

************************************************

*["If someone was in a coma from age 7 to age 21, and then he stole something, then died right after, would he go to Hell ?"]

***If he was saved before he was 7 years old, he would go to heaven. If he did not know Jesus as Saviour, he would be lost. It all comes down to what you do with the Lord Jesus Christ. Only He can save the sinner.

************************************************

*["Christians like yourself, JIA, and Marcello, and others will often argue that because of our "sinfulness" we are on a path to Hell."]

***We do NOT argue that...we REPEAT what the Scriptures DECLARE about the "sinfulness" of MANKIND. Our AUTHORITY is the Word of God and NOT our own REASONINGS.

************************************************

*["People like myself, and others, have not committed murder, rape, or anything warranting eternal suffering.

The worst any of us have ever done was insult someone, lie, or maybe even steal, not to mention have "immoral" sex out of marriage..."]

***Unfortunately, for you, it is NOT you who makes the FINAL determination of what the PENALTY will be for your wanton WICKEDNESS. God will make His decision predicated on what you will do or NOT do with His SON whom He sent to redeem you. If you REJECT His graciousness and mercy toward you...you will DIE the DEATH in HELL.

************************************************

*["You won't get severe punishment or the death penalty for any of those things by Law. You won't get tortured either.

So how do you end up in Hell for those things ?"]

***Sinful man's laws are irrelevant and often at enmity with God's laws.

************************************************

*["Christianity poses so many logical issues..."]

***Nay...tis unrepentant sinners that pose the problems.

Marchello [/B]

But you are also a sinner, therefore you cannot know the truth.

I just love it when the hypocrites show their arrogance.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
I just love it when the hypocrites show their arrogance.

I love you Shakyamunison.

I have question(s) though.

When someone is arrogant, which measuring stick are you using, theirs or yours? I can see a person as a hypocrite when using their own measuring stick/cup against themselves, that's like the duality argument of symmetry. However, for arrogance, seems like that's using your own system of importance against their own, and then, finding them "lacking" based on your subjective view(s) of how they should value themselves (too self important in your eyes = arrogance, but in all appearances, the observation appears meek/humble, and yet, the motive may still be out of arrogance, which would make that person a hypocrite).

How many extra cups are they over before they are arrogant, and are the cup they are filling from their own glass or your own? (you may have only assigned them a gracious 1/2 glass, and they are filling it up to the rim/very top, well, how did they get to do that (the person observing that they should have stopped at half glass), how arrogant of them to continue to pour above the level prescribed, but how did one get to the judgment of arrogance, another observer may wonder "how hypocritical"😉.

You know, someone can think an ant is arrogant for riding on their arm too, as whom he thinks he is, being on a human being and all. But, to the ant, it may be a compliment to walk on/along the all-mighty human being or he's going to bite. Arrogance, hypocrisy, which cup belongs to whom and which is being judged relative to the other, and in that judgment alone, does that make the observer(s) either one or both?

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Billions of dollars don't amount to shi*t in the big picture.

Originally posted by Czarina_Czarina
I love you Shakyamunison.

I have question(s) though.

When someone is arrogant, which measuring stick are you using, theirs or yours? I can see a person as a hypocrite when using their own measuring stick/cup against themselves, that's like the duality argument of symmetry. However, for arrogance, seems like that's using your own system of importance against their own,and then, finding them "lacking" based on your subjective view(s) of how they should value themselves (too self important in your eyes = arrogance, but in all appearances, the observation appears meek/humble, and yet, the motive may still be out of arrogance, which would make that person a hypocrite).

How many extra cups are they over before they are arrogant, and is the cup they are filling from their own glass or your own? (you may have only assigned them a gracious 1/2 glass, and they are filling it up to the rim/very top, well, how did they get to do that (the person observing that they should have stopped at half glass), how arrogant of them to continue to pour above the level prescribed, but how did one get to the judgement of arrogance, another observer may wonder "how hypocritical"😉.

You know, someone can think an ant is arrogant for riding on their arm too, as who does he think he is, being on a human being and all. But, to the ant, it may be a compliment to walk on/along the all-mighty human being or he's going to bite. Arrogance, hypocracy, which cup belongs to whom and which is being judged relative to the other, and in that judgement alone, does that make the observer(s) either one or both?

I’m sorry, but I don’t really understand what you are getting at. Could you make it simple for me? To help, I am including the definition for the words, hypocrite and arrogance.

Hypocrite = somebody who gives a false appearance of having admirable principles, beliefs, or feelings.

Arrogance = a strong feeling of proud self-importance that is expressed by treating other people with contempt or disregard

*["...So its true....Christianity, at its most fundamental basis, teaches that All Sins are Equal in the Eyes of God..]

***No...that is NOT what I said...nor does Christianity teach that. What I said was there is no gradation of sin...for all sin results in Death in Hell. There is NO "venial" sin...ONLY "deadly sin"..."For the WAGES of SIN [i.e., it doesn't specify big or small...ONLY the RESULT] is DEATH..."
[Romans 6:23].

************************************************

*["We inherit the sins of our fathers and mothers

***I did NOT say this either. What I said is we inherit the SIN NATURE of our parents. Our parents were Sinners...and they passed down their SINFUL NATURE to us. Everyone is responsible for his OWN sin.

************************************************

*["...We automatically inherit the sins of Adam and Eve..."]

***I did NOT say this either. We inherited the SIN NATURE from Adam. All men are responsible for their OWN sins.

************************************************

*["We will go to Hell for stealing a Penny"]

***Nah...You'll go to Hell because you're an unrepentant sinner who has rejected God's ONLY provision for your sins.

************************************************

*["laugh"]

***God will have the last "laugh."

Marchello

Originally posted by Marchello
[B]*["...So its true....Christianity, at its most fundamental basis, teaches that All Sins are Equal in the Eyes of God..]

***No...that is NOT what I said...nor does Christianity teach that. What I said was there is no gradation of sin...for all sin results in Death in Hell. There is NO "venial" sin...ONLY "deadly sin"..."For the WAGES of SIN [i.e., it doesn't specify big or small...ONLY the RESULT] is DEATH..."
[Romans 6:23].

************************************************

*["We inherit the sins of our fathers and mothers

***I did NOT say this either. What I said is we inherit the SIN NATURE of our parents. Our parents were Sinners...and they passed down their SINFUL NATURE to us. Everyone is responsible for his OWN sin.

************************************************

*["...We automatically inherit the sins of Adam and Eve..."]

***I did NOT say this either. We inherited the SIN NATURE from Adam. All men are responsible for their OWN sins.

************************************************

*["We will go to Hell for stealing a Penny"]

***Nah...You'll go to Hell because you're an unrepentant sinner who has rejected God's ONLY provision for your sins.

************************************************

*["laugh"]

***God will have the last "laugh."

Marchello [/B]

But what if you are wrong?

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
But you are also a sinner, therefore you cannot know the truth.

***Au Contrare...I am a FORGIVEN sinner and Jesus remembers my sins NO MORE.

Marchello

Originally posted by Marchello
***Au Contrare...I am a FORGIVEN sinner and Jesus remembers my sins NO MORE.

Marchello

But what if you are wrong?