Darkseid vs Anti Monitor(pre AM Universe absorption)

Originally posted by Tazer
Yo.

well this whole tale is a big retcon, so Y not go with it? since theres no evidence it was in the original, but as a retcon ANYTHINGS possible!

especially since yur using this as evidence over everything that we saw in the CoIE-mini proper.

Originally posted by Tazer
1) we have no evidence of him having any tech before or during his war w/Monitor; as a matter of fact we just see them blasting at each other apparently across the dimensional divide.

2) we know that both of them were unconscious, but Pariahs am-experiment woke him up, and he converted it into energy, re-focused it back into his realm to gather even MORE energy, and by his own testimony he wasnt freed from his prison UNTIL then.

and its not like he ever leaves the AM-'verse, so I dont see how any1 could think THAT was his prison.

Tazer

2. How do we know that he was unconscious until Pariah woke him up? Pariah is the one who said that, and he said it at the same time he said that his responsible for the destruction of his universe(which we later found out to be inaccurate), so that’s hardly a reliable testimony.

And since he wanted more to conquer but the Monitor kept him from taking over the Positive Matter Universes, I think it would seem like a prison to him.

Originally posted by Tazer
Yo.

Im not saying there was or wasnt a plot device used, cuz I dont know either way.

I, however, wont assume that there WAS 1 used.

Originally posted by Tazer
and Id like to see a picture of the machine that destroyed Pariahs home, or even the 1 that destroyed "Earth-D".

Tazer

Originally posted by Tazer
and the AM-feat is more valid by the fact that theres FAR MORE info given (even pictures along w/it) than simply the single line we get from Spidey for the other feat.

Originally posted by Tazer
Yo.

so Spidey beating FL doesnt get the same consideration of "resounding defeat" eh??

how about him beating Titannia?

or him beating Rhino??

Tazer

😆

Come on, how can we compare hyperbole bullshit like Sentry stalemating Galen, to the Am destroying a universe? One is just to ridiculous to take into consideration, the other is quit believable. It's like trying to compare a scientific theory, to a fart joke. It's that absurd.

Originally posted by starking
Come on, how can we compare hyperbole bullshit like Sentry stalemating Galen, to the Am destroying a universe? One is just to ridiculous to take into consideration, the other is quit believable. It's like trying to compare a scientific theory, to a fart joke. It's that absurd.

Originally posted by darthgoober
Why is AM destroying a universe with his own power more believable when he never actually demonstrated that level of power without either tech or a massive upgrade(like absorbing all the energy from the Antimatter Universe)? I mean, there's an equal amount of evidence to support both, and AM's only two combat showings before he absorbed the energy from the Antimatter Universe had him nearly killed by Supergirl and knocked around by his own Thunderers.

Originally posted by starking
Well I'm not sure, but I don't think the biggest threat the Dcu has [b]ever faced, would be that much more powerful just by absorbing his universe. Especially going by his fight with the Monitor. But that's just my take on it, I'm sure there's a much better answer to it. [/B]

Originally posted by starking
Well I'm not sure, but I don't think the biggest threat the Dcu has [b]ever faced, would be that much more powerful just by absorbing his universe. Especially going by his fight with the Monitor. But that's just my take on it, I'm sure there's a much better answer to it. [/B]

Yo.

Originally posted by quanchi112
correction he was sure he had a conversation just not whether he obliterated him or not. must i correct u all night?

http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa41/quanchi112/quasar24015.jpg

i could count infinity but i dont. she has no direct contact with thanos while maelstrom does. since she didnt appear in one of the main books and had no direct contact i never considered her for the ig vs coie debate.

U want a correction? how about this: "but...but....but....it was an IG-crossover!! it said so on the cover!"

does THAT ring any bells??

and that U'll single out a *single* chara simply due to a convo he had, even tho the book CLEARLY wasnt titled "crossover" just shows how far U'll sink to pad an argument. 😆

Tazer

Yo.

Originally posted by quanchi112
ur comparing rhino to firelord? 😆

these R all character who're MORE than a physical match for Spidey, yet he's beatn them all.

hell, Rhino goes head-up against the Hulk fer cryin' out loud.....

so, do any of those count as "resounding defeats" at all?

Tazer

Originally posted by Tazer
Yo.

these R all character who're MORE than a physical match for Spidey, yet he's beatn them all.

hell, Rhino goes head-up against the Hulk fer cryin' out loud.....

so, do any of those count as "resounding defeats" at all?

Tazer

Tazer?

Herochat?

Good to se you buddy. You don' reconise me withthe name but you know me. 😉

Originally posted by Tazer
Yo.

U want a correction? how about this: "but...but....but....it was an IG-crossover!! it said so on the cover!"

does THAT ring any bells??

and that U'll single out a *single* chara simply due to a convo he had, even tho the book CLEARLY wasnt titled "crossover" just shows how far U'll sink to pad an argument. 😆

Tazer

Originally posted by quanchi112
correction he was sure he had a conversation just not whether he obliterated him or not. must i correct u all night?

[/IMG]

i could count infinity but i dont. she has no direct contact with thanos while maelstrom does. since she didnt appear in one of the main books and had no direct contact i never considered her for the ig vs coie debate.

Yo.

Originally posted by quanchi112
no response to my correction to ur earlier statement eh tazer?

U got me square here, I can admit when Im wrong.

Tazer

Originally posted by Tazer
Yo.

U got me square here, I can admit when Im wrong.

Tazer

😉

Yo.

Originally posted by quanchi112
i thought it was on the cover. im surprised it wasnt.
but he still had direct contact with thanos in his enhanced state. i was the thread maker so why do u continue to argue with me. would u rather of me said ok lt counts but maelstrom doesnt. i didnt count infinity either. i have given u reasons why i included maelstrom so get over it. i made the thread so i choose, i was fair but im sick of arguing about this. i was correct in including maelstrom whether it said ig crossover or not.

I gotta say, I found it funny that U posted that scan faster than U admitted the cover lacked an x-over notice.

and no-one said he didnt have direct contact, but the question posed was whether or not it was an IG-crossover title, and since we see that that is lacking we can say it wasnt.

Tazer

Yo.

Originally posted by TheTick
Tazer?

Herochat?

Good to se you buddy. You don' reconise me withthe name but you know me. 😉

U wouldnt be the guy known for BUNGLING things up, would ya?? ermm

Tazer

Yo.

Originally posted by quanchi112
as can i. 😉

ok, if thats true then how about answering the following:

Originally posted by Tazer
these R all character who're MORE than a physical match for Spidey, yet he's beatn them all.

hell, Rhino goes head-up against the Hulk fer cryin' out loud.....

so, do any of those count as "resounding defeats" at all?

Tazer

Originally posted by Tazer
Yo.

ok, if thats true then how about answering the following:

Tazer

Yo.

Originally posted by darthgoober
I don’t get what you’re saying, go with what?

since yur basing yur whole stance off of a retcon'd story, we might as well go with the notion that 1 of the 2 devices we saw in the original telling are the culprit.....even tho theres no evidence to show it was so.

becuz in a retcon, ANYTHING can happen!! Jumpy

Originally posted by darthgoober
1. He had already conquered the Antimatter Universe and had his Thunder’s available, so I don’t see why he wouldn’t have tech. They certainly had tech on Oa, and since Quard was a mirror of Oa…

and when did we 1st see the Thunderers?? was it ish #1, or #8?

and between issues #1 to #7, how much tech did we see??

Originally posted by darthgoober
2. How do we know that he was unconscious until Pariah woke him up? Pariah is the one who said that, and he said it at the same time he said that his responsible for the destruction of his universe(which we later found out to be inaccurate), so that’s hardly a reliable testimony.

it was Harbinger who said that they were both rendered unconscious from that simultaneous atk, and Pariah was clued in to wat was behind the AM-wave by the Monitor in ish #4 or #5 just b4 he died (and I would think *he* knows.)

Originally posted by darthgoober
And since he wanted more to conquer but the Monitor kept him from taking over the Positive Matter Universes, I think it would seem like a prison to him.

but even *after* freeing himself HE NEVER LEFT THE AM-'VERSE except to goto the Creation Point. simply put: the AM *wasnt* trapped the way yur making it out to be.

Originally posted by darthgoober
But is the lack of evidence that there WASN’T a plot device enough to state that Sentry fought him to a standstill without it? Because that’s what you’re saying in regards to AM, you’re saying that since no tech was directly mentioned in regards to Pariah’s universe we can’t assume that he used it even though it was established that he needed tech to destroy the other Positive Matter Universes, and that without his machines the heroes would achieve [B]"ultimate victory" (and that's by AM's own admission).[/B]

1) since he went to the Creation Point on his own, I dont see how we need to think he needed machines to do so.

2) the Sentry feat is so nebulous as a statement, it couldve played out ANY WAY U WANT at this point, and U have just as much a chance of being right as of being wrong.

3) the ONLY machine thats mentiond (and shown) in regards to Pariahs universe is the contraption he built to look back at the Creation Point. aside from that, there NO OTHER MACHINE EVER mentioned, discussed, or shown in ref to wat the AM did, or EVER to any p-m universe b4 ish #7.

Originally posted by darthgoober
The tech responsible for the Antimatter Wave is never seen, just specifically mentioned. Anyway, YOU’RE the one that made the claim that there were pictures of him doing it without tech remember…

So where are the pictures of him destroying it?

panels 2 thru 4 of this page show EXACTLY wat yur asking:

Tazer

I don't see panels 2-4 ever showing an Antimatter wave being extended directly from Anti-Monitor. Anti-Monitor was heavily dependent on machines when he was supposed to be at the height of his power after so many universes were destroyed. Being at the height of his power, he started using machines and technology all over the place and was smacked around by Supergirl. It makes much more sense that Anti-Monitor used technology from the start when he was supposedly weaker. But I do agree that the alternate Green Lantern in Earth-D is crap. Huge editorial oversight among other things.

I agree with just about everything darthgoober has posited. Although I haven't been following the debate for very long. If I misstated anything, please let me know.