Darkseid vs Anti Monitor(pre AM Universe absorption)

Started by darthgoober6 pages

darthgoober Senior Member

Originally posted by Tazer
Yo.
since yur basing yur whole stance off of a retcon'd story, we might as well go with the notion that 1 of the 2 devices we saw in the original telling are the culprit.....even tho theres no evidence to show it was so.
becuz in a retcon, ANYTHING can happen!! Jumpy

Well if that's what you want to believe go ahead, if it's true it doesn't change the fact that AM used tech to destroy the positive matter universes, it just changes what tech was used to do it.

Originally posted by Tazer
and when did we 1st see the Thunderers?? was it ish #1, or #8?
and between issues #1 to #7, how much tech did we see??

What difference does it make what issue we first saw the Thunderers in? No matter what issue they first appeared in it was established that they were available since before AM discovered the existence of the Positive Matter Universes.

Originally posted by Tazer
it was Harbinger who said that they were both rendered unconscious from that simultaneous atk, and Pariah was clued in to wat was behind the AM-wave by the Monitor in ish #4 or #5 just b4 he died (and I would think *he* knows.)

Harbinger was also under the impression that Pariah was responsible for the death of his universe, so she wasn't exactly "in the know" about the whole situation. And I remember Monitor talking about saving Pariah, but I don't remember him mentioning any specifics beyond telling Pariah the he(Monitor) was responsible for saving Pariah's life, and explaining their current situation with the Antimatter Wave.

Originally posted by Tazer
but even *after* freeing himself HE NEVER LEFT THE AM-'VERSE except to goto the Creation Point. simply put: the AM *wasnt* trapped the way yur making it out to be.

I never said he wanted to leave, I said that he wanted more to conquer which is pretty much a direct quote from Harbinger.

Originally posted by Tazer
1) since he went to the Creation Point on his own, I dont see how we need to think he needed machines to do so.
2) the Sentry feat is so nebulous as a statement, it couldve played out ANY WAY U WANT at this point, and U have just as much a chance of being right as of being wrong.
3) the ONLY machine thats mentiond (and shown) in regards to Pariahs universe is the contraption he built to look back at the Creation Point. aside from that, there NO OTHER MACHINE EVER mentioned, discussed, or shown in ref to wat the AM did, or EVER to any p-m universe b4 ish #7.

1. He reached the Dawn of Time after absorbing the life energies from the inhabited planets within the Antimatter Universe. What's more, he USED pretty much all that energy just getting there, so it's not nearly the feat you make it out to be.

2. I see Anti Monitor's statement the same way, since there's just as much proof provided for both claims.

3. I don't care what issue the machine's were mentioned in, if they're mentioned it's valid.

Originally posted by Tazer
panels 2 thru 4 of this page show EXACTLY wat yur asking:
Tazer

Those panels show the story from Pariah's point of view, so there's no way they're showing AM destroying Pariah's universe because at the time Pariah thought that HE was the one responsible for his universe's destruction.

Tazer Senior Member

Yo.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
I don't see panels 2-4 ever showing an Antimatter wave being extended directly from Anti-Monitor.

in CoIE #10 we find out that the AM turned Pariahs a-m chamber into an energy wave that destroyed his universe and fully freed him from his imprisonment. so in those 3 scans I mentioned does ANY1 see ANY tech anyWHERE as the AM feeds upon the energy of wat was Pariahs universe....since thats EXACTLY wat he's doing there???

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Anti-Monitor was heavily dependent on machines when he was supposed to be at the height of his power after so many universes were destroyed. Being at the height of his power, he started using machines and technology all over the place and was smacked around by Supergirl.

the only machines he was heavily dependent on wouldve been his Solar Collector (to screw w/those universes inside the Monitors Netherverse) and the AM-Cannon (to presumably wipe out those same universes in 1 shot.)

but if U will, plz show us some tech that the AM was "heavily dependent on" b4 his 1st battle in #7

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
It makes much more sense that Anti-Monitor used technology from the start when he was supposedly weaker. But I do agree that the alternate Green Lantern in Earth-D is crap. Huge editorial oversight among other things.
I agree with just about everything darthgoober has posited. Although I haven't been following the debate for very long. If I misstated anything, please let me know.

it doesnt make sense that he used given that there nothing to say that he did.; if U can find something w/in CoIE that say otherwise, then plz share.

OneDumbG0 Find Your Own Fire

Originally posted by Tazer
Yo.
in CoIE #10 we find out that the AM turned Pariahs a-m chamber into an energy wave that destroyed his universe and fully freed him from his imprisonment. so in those 3 scans I mentioned does ANY1 see ANY tech anyWHERE as the AM feeds upon the energy of wat was Pariahs universe....since thats EXACTLY wat he's doing there???

Please keep in mind that darthgoober and I asked where it's been seen that Antimonitor extends the antimatter wave from himself. You indicated that those panels were such proof, but they obviously are not.

Originally posted by Tazer
the only machines he was heavily dependent on wouldve been his Solar Collector (to screw w/those universes inside the Monitors Netherverse) and the AM-Cannon (to presumably wipe out those same universes in 1 shot.)
but if U will, plz show us some tech that the AM was "heavily dependent on" b4 his 1st battle in #7
it doesnt make sense that he used given that there nothing to say that he did.; if U can find something w/in CoIE that say otherwise, then plz share.

And given that there is nothing to show that the antimatter waves were generated from his very being, by your logic it's even weaker to suppose that's how it happened. Especially since he was so dependent on tech later on. And when he got pwned by Supergirl...

Tazer Senior Member

Yo.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Please keep in mind that darthgoober and I asked where it's been seen that Antimonitor extends the antimatter wave from himself. You indicated that those panels were such proof, but they obviously are not.

and I showed U where the AM is feeding on the energies of Pariahs universe right after its been converted AND after he'd been freed; if we know (by AMs testimony) that he didnt fully free himself when he was awoken until AFTER he'd fed....how could he possibly have used tech in that condition???

and more to the point: show us ONE INSTANCE of there being an A-wave machine being mentioned or shown in the entire mini. the only instances of him needing tech for something big occur ONLY after the Mon shifts Earths 1 & 2 into protective custody w/his death.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
And given that there is nothing to show that the antimatter waves were generated from his very being, by your logic it's even weaker to suppose that's how it happened. Especially since he was so dependent on tech later on. And when he got pwned by Supergirl...

the only weak logic is the 1 that assumes the A-wave was generated by tech, when theres not 1 shred of evidence to support that claim, yet refutes the notion that he did it himself when we see that he 1) doesnt need weapons to atk/destroy things not even in his own universe, and 2) see that he can absorb the sum total of a universe after its been converted into energy.

Tazer