Why do some enjoy seeing others down/fall?

Originally posted by Czarina_Czarina
there are black men who dislike black females. you will never hear me attack that person, at all. as long as they don't do anything to hurt that person's ability in life, i leave them alone. if i have to, i'll ask about their upbringing and try to connect the dots and see where the root lies, and if i can find it and someone asks, i'll talk about it, but i am not going to play god and ask him to love all black females or white females or any females.

people are like the pallet on your tongue, if you like apples, but i don't, what does that mean to you. the universe is LARGE, HUGE, expansive. if you like carrots, but i hate it, what is that to anyone?

I know you are from Europe, and I am not sure about all European laws, but we have freedom of speech here. someone can talk about Bush and relate it to all hicks across this country, and you may know some really kind hicks, but to them, they want to verbally attack Bush, well, I don't interven. I don't tell'm they hate hicks and I know great hicks who are wonderful. I let'm talk. Their right to talk. If I try to hurt their family, income,job, love life, b/c they said they found a pattern in most hicks (maybe i read it as all hicks), why the heck am I going to bother their life?

If you make generalized and unfounded statements and insult lots of people, that is something to me. I don't like it. It annoys me.

And Freedom of Speech always goes both ways.

Originally posted by Czarina_Czarina
there are black men who dislike black females. you will never hear me attack that person, at all. as long as they don't do anything to hurt that person's ability in life, i leave them alone. if i have to, i'll ask about their upbringing and try to connect the dots and see where the root lies, and if i can find it and someone asks, i'll talk about it, but i am not going to play god and ask him to love all black females or white females or any females.

people are like the pallet on your tongue, if you like apples, but i don't, what does that mean to you. the universe is LARGE, HUGE, expansive. if you like carrots, but i hate it, what is that to anyone?

I know you are from Europe, and I am not sure about all European laws, but we have freedom of speech here. someone can talk about Bush and relate it to all hicks across this country, and you may know some really kind hicks, but to them, they want to verbally attack Bush, well, I don't interven. I don't tell'm they hate hicks and I know great hicks who are wonderful. I let'm talk. Their right to talk. If I try to hurt their family, income,job, love life, b/c they said they found a pattern in most hicks (maybe i read it as all hicks), why the heck am I going to bother their life? if i disagree, i disagree, that's the beauty of speech, it's words, not fighting words to oppress someone.

I'm a hick, you got a problem with that? I'm gonna go tend my cows and sheep now.

Originally posted by Bardock42
If you make generalized and unfounded statements and insult lots of people, that is something to me. I don't like it. It annoys me.

And Freedom of Speech always goes both ways.

and out of liberty and grace, and my own self-esteem, i am not after you b/c you dislike me, you've called me all sorts of names, YOUR OPINION, YOU CAN HAVE ONE or two or as many as you so desire.

and i can't insult anyone without their permission.

and i allow you freedom of speech, why? b/c i am not attacking you (if i attacked you, it wasn't really free was it?) for what you are saying back to me, that's freedom, you are free to T-A-L-K.

I'm not after your job, income, love life, career, family, home; simply b/c you said insulting things, you have a right to talk, and under F-R-E-E-D-O-M of speech, you can talk, without fear of me going after you, even if I find your words insulting, so what you don't like me, it's OK. you aren't required to, and i'm not going to reduce you in life just b/c i took your words to heart, why would i do that for? your words don't belong to me, they are your words, your thoughts, not my own.

Originally posted by Czarina_Czarina
and out of liberty and grace, and my own self-esteem, i am not after you b/c you dislike me, you've called me all sorts of names, YOUR OPINION, YOU CAN HAVE ONE or two or as many as you so desire.

and i can't insult anyone without their permission.

and i allow you freedom of speech, why? b/c i am not attacking you for what you are saying back to me, that's freedom, you are free to T-A-L-K.

I'm not after you job, income, love life, career, family, home; simply b/c you said insulting things, you have a right to talk, and under F-R-E-E-D-O-M of speech, you can talk, without fear of me going after you, even if I find your words insulting, so what you don't like me, it's OK. you aren't required to, and i'm not going to reduce you in life just b/c i took your words to heart, why would i do that for? your words don't belong to me, they are your words, your thoughts, not my own.

Yeah I am. Whether you grant me that freedom or not.

Originally posted by Lord Shaper
I'm a hick, you got a problem with that? I'm gonna go tend my cows and sheep now.

Enjoy!

Originally posted by Bardock42
Yeah I am. Whether you grant me that freedom or not.

The law (from our country which is under liberty and grace), the L-A-W is granting you freedom, and allowing me the right to grant you the same. My esteem is my application of it (someone who doesn't esteem it on the positive, could have easily tried to personally attack your name or income or life), meaning, I'm not using it to hurt anyone, out of a good esteem.

Originally posted by Czarina_Czarina
The law (from our country which is under liberty and grace), the L-A-W is granting you freedom, and allowing me the right to grant you the same. My esteem is my application of it, meaning, I'm not using it to hurt anyone, out of a good esteem.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tTOQhPd2Xh4

Originally posted by Bardock42
Bullshit you moronic idiot.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tTOQhPd2Xh4

You give someone power by having to put them down in the first place. If you have to put someone in their place, that shows that they were in a higher position to begin with. I don't put people in their place, b/c that would mean that I placed them high above me.

if i have to do anything with a person or culture that i find annoying or mean or rude, i ignore them, not personally attack a person. so it's a wonder what's being done here to me in my personal life and online. it's against my constitutional right.

That's another reason why I don't go around attacking INDIVIDUALS, i may not like certain cultures, but I don't attack an individual's life or name, esp. for their thoughts on culture or women.

Originally posted by Czarina_Czarina
You give someone power by having to put them down in the first place. If you have to put someone in their place, that shows that they were in a higher position to begin with. I don't put people in their place, b/c that would mean that I placed them high above me.

Nonsense, you can put people down that are below you.

Originally posted by Czarina_Czarina
if i have to do anything with a person or culture that i find annoying or mean or rude, i ignore them, not personally attack a person. so it's a wonder what's being done here to me in my personal life and online. it's against my constitutional right.

Good for you, I like to face my problems. And change them, by constantly insulting them. What is done against your constitutional right?

Originally posted by Czarina_Czarina
That's another reason why I don't go around attacking INDIVIDUALS, i may not like certain cultures, but I don't attack an individual's life or name, esp. for their thoughts on culture or women.

W-why not? To attack individiuals makes more sense.

Originally posted by Bardock42
Nonsense, you can put people down that are below you.

Good for you, I like to face my problems. And change them, by constantly insulting them. What is done against your constitutional right?

W-why not? To attack individiuals makes more sense.

nobody is below me, even the ones i ignore or can't stand. that's something people like you can't understand, i may not like a religion or group or culture, BUT, that individual is NOT beneath me, my opinions do not institutionalize that position, if they read it that way, it's a matter of them having some sort of heirarchical thinking, and measuring their importance based on my words, why would they do that for?

talking about the ideologies of a group and how they solve problems and your dislike of it, that's not the same as ruining an individuals name, hurting their job, home, love life, those things are against the law. i can talk about a group all i want to, and ignore folks that bother me, they aren't below me as individuals, if they read it that way, then they have esteem issues, why would they place my words to such importance unless IT'S TRUTH, if it's not true, who cares, it's a generality. if it applies to them and now, they want to see me punished , they are telling on themselves.

Originally posted by Czarina_Czarina
nobody is below me

QFT

Originally posted by Czarina_Czarina

, even the ones i ignore or can't stand. that's something people like you can't understand, i may not like a religion or group or culture, BUT, that individual is NOT beneath me, my opinions do not institutionalize that position, if they read it that way, it's a matter of them having some sort of heirarchical thinking, and measuring their importance based on my words, why would they do that for?

You make no sense. I doubt you yourself understand anything.

Originally posted by Czarina_Czarina

talking about the ideologies of a group and how they solve problems and your dislike of it, that's not the same as ruining an individuals name, hurting their job, home, love life, those things are against the law. i can talk about a group all i want to, and ignore folks that bother me, they aren't below me as individuals, if they read it that way, then they have esteem issues, why would they place my words to such importance unless IT'S TRUTH, if it's not true, who cares, it's a generality. if it applies to them and now, they want to see me punished , they are telling on themselves.

I am sorry, but if people think that groups should be killed for being gay, I really don't care if I hurt them. What world do you live in? And maybe because people might think it is true while it is not.

You are stupid. I dislike talking to you. It is like you are unable to make the next logical step in an argument.

Originally posted by Bardock42
QFT

You make no sense. I doubt you yourself understand anything.

I am sorry, but if people think that groups should be killed for being gay, I really don't care if I hurt them. What world do you live in? And maybe because people might think it is true while it is not.

You are stupid. I dislike talking to you. It is like you are unable to make the next logical step in an argument.

You have a right to think whatever you want of me, your thoughts are not my thoughts.

M&M'S are tasty, especially the new dark chocolate ones. That Addams Family commercial for it was rockin'. I loved it, almost as much as I love milkshakes and root beer floats.

Originally posted by Czarina_Czarina
i haven't lived a spoiled existence, i had strict parents, i wasn't the prettiest of the three girls, i was overweight (still am), i was a nerd and it was required in the family, even though the school we went to required us to be "cool", we weren't "cool" at all, we were nerds, all of us. our parents raised us to never say the word "shut up", so if we couldn't be rude, we certainly wasn't allowed to curse at each other or anyone else, even if they were being nasty, we were taught to ignore them and if we have to fight, let it be in defense, don't pick on people, but defend yourself if necessary.

i haven't had any success with my love life (not allowed to be in love with the person in love with), no financial benefits (ruined career), nothing grand in skill or art or beauty.

i've seen people with greater "coolness", greater bodies, greater beauty, greater intellect, greater social position, better careers or greater success in it, etc. I see them all the time.

what's wrong with me? i'm suppose to want them to be less, i'm suppose to hate them or ruin their life, right? i'm suppose to be happy to see them fall?

i'm a weirdo. i'm strange. i'm different.

Originally posted by Czarina_Czarina
You have a right to think whatever you want of me, your thoughts are not my thoughts.

No, or your thoughts would be logical and intelligent.

Originally posted by Czarina_Czarina
I don't take pleasure in the misfortune of others, that is what makes me weird and strange and odd.

Well I think you will find most people do not want to see others "fall", there isn't some kind of lust to see people topple.

However, just as I said you shouldn't mistake black humor, satire, parody and the like for actual feelings of malice, you also should understand the higher a person is, they more open they are to scrutiny from many, many, many people with different values and standards who will support or detract from them. Likewise the things they do, say and advocate will be open to scrutiny as well, and if they are in a position of influence, or even power, people are going to pay attention and voice their opinions on whether they believe in what they are doing or saying or not.

If they are going against a persons views then there will be criticism, and if they are are doing so strongly enough then people will want them out. I think you are overstating your belief that people "other then you" get kicks out of failure.

In the case of Ayn Rand you forget that as an author and for the ideas presented she received massive support and admiration from some, but strong criticism from others.

And you never answered the question of whether you had actually read Atlas Shrugged.

I know you are from Europe, and I am not sure about all European laws

In Europe if we have a go at the government, we vanish.

Fvcking idiot.

Originally posted by Imperial_Samura
Well I think you will find most people do not want to see others "fall", there isn't some kind of lust to see people topple.

However, just as I said you shouldn't mistake black humor, satire, parody and the like for actual feelings of malice, you also should understand the higher a person is, they more open they are to scrutiny from many, many, many people with different values and standards who will support or detract from them. Likewise the things they do, say and advocate will be open to scrutiny as well, and if they are in a position of influence, or even power, people are going to pay attention and voice their opinions on whether they believe in what they are doing or saying or not.

If they are going against a persons views then there will be criticism, and if they are are doing so strongly enough then people will want them out. I think you are overstating your belief that people "other then you" get kicks out of failure.

In the case of Ayn Rand you forget that as an author and for the ideas presented she received massive support and admiration from some, but strong criticism from others.

And you never answered the question of whether you had actually read Atlas Shrugged.

but it happens all the time, not only to B. Spears, Whitney Houston, Paris, N. Richie, that girl from the Disney channel, T. Campbell (didn't know about his drug issue or his brush with the law, wouldn't doubt that people on drugs act out of character, and I wouldn't doubt that if the rumors are true, if what happened to him as a child is true, i wouldn't doubt it if i heard of him growing up as an adult with either drug or alcoholic related issues or even brushes with the law, I believe in second chances for people, not kicking them b/c they fell (esp. any child abuse), he was obviously encouraged to go to or explore the gay lifestyle too young, and ended up with issues that most kids wouldn't be able to handle), the list goes on and on, and it happens very often, someone rises and falls, it's every day or week, and then, using music/entertainment to tell kids that this stuff is really cool and hot and the way to go.

regarding Ayn Rand, my parents had Atlas Shrugged, I only read The Fountainhead, and I hated it. The issue with AS wasn't to glorify it or debase it, it was only an illustration of the REACTION people had to someone/something rising and wanting to see it/them/him/her fall. I have no intention in reading A.S., as The Fountainhead left me with zero desire for her work, do I dislike her? NO. I respect her position, even if I disagree with it. I tried to understand her upbringing, the core issue that brought her to the idea of classifying people as "looters"/collectivism versus "individualism/objectivism". It was her background in how her family saw looters take over and "steal" her father's pharmaceutical company. It makes better sense to try to see the "trigger" point in some one's life, imo, rather then to heckle them like one is at a football game, on the wrong side of the team, it's too often, and done in personal life and it's too much negativity and it's without civility, civility means I don't have to like you, and you don't have to like me, but we respect each other's position.

Originally posted by Czarina_Czarina
i haven't lived a spoiled existence, i had strict parents, i wasn't the prettiest of the three girls, i was overweight (still am), i was a nerd and it was required in the family, even though the school we went to required us to be "cool", we weren't "cool" at all, we were nerds, all of us. our parents raised us to never say the word "shut up", so if we couldn't be rude, we certainly wasn't allowed to curse at each other or anyone else, even if they were being nasty, we were taught to ignore them and if we have to fight, let it be in defense, don't pick on people, but defend yourself if necessary.

i haven't had any success with my love life (not allowed to be in love with the person in love with), no financial benefits (ruined career), nothing grand in skill or art or beauty.

i've seen people with greater "coolness", greater bodies, greater beauty, greater intellect, greater social position, better careers or greater success in it, etc. I see them all the time.

what's wrong with me? i'm suppose to want them to be less, i'm suppose to hate them or ruin their life, right? i'm suppose to be happy to see them fall?

i'm a weirdo. i'm strange. i'm different.

i said, and i quote...

Originally posted by JLred
maybe since we've been in that position and people have laughed that we feel the need to laugh...or something of that sort....

Originally posted by Czarina_Czarina
but it happens all the time, not only to B. Spears, Whitney Houston, Paris, N. Richie, that girl from the Disney channel, T. Campbell the list goes on and on, and it happens very often, someone rises and falls, it's every day or week, and then, using music/entertainment to tell kids that this stuff is really cool and hot and the way to go.

I really think you need to define "rising" and "falling" - I mean Paris Hilton and Nicole Ritchie? I laugh when a comedian does a good bit on them, I don't when they don't. Beyond that I really wish I didn't have to hear about them, and I don't think the news is really the medium for examining Paris Hilton's latest antics.

What exactly has she contributed, or anything, that technically puts her in a elevated position making he capable of falling, beyond people showing interest in her? They "fell", comedians make jokes, the world moves on. I know I'm not taking joy in their "fall" and nor am I on the ground beating my chest and wailing "Oh Britney, you don't deserve this!"

What I can be heard saying is "why the hell should this be on the news? It is her life, she made her choices, she has to deal with the results, like any normal mere mortal."

regarding Ayn Rand, my parents had Atlas Shrugged, I only read The Fountainhead, and I hated it. The issue with AS wasn't to glorify it or debase it, it was only an illustration of the REACTION people had to someone/something rising and wanting to see it/them/him/her fall.

From what I have seen their issue had nothing to do with the fact she was rising and wanting to see her fall, but rather the things she said in relation to writing/philosophy, and/or the way the book was written (I appreciate it for what it is, though I felt it was ponderously written).

Hence why you should justify "rise and fall" - criticism of work is not desire to see someone fall, it is saying "I have a problem with what you are writing/saying/advocating/ and/or how you are doing it."

I have no intention in reading A.S., as The Fountainhead left me with zero desire for her work, do I dislike her? NO. I respect her position, even if I disagree with it. I tried to understand her upbringing, the core issue that brought her to the idea of classifying people

And I imagine there were people who disliked her, but a good number of the people who didn't like her writing/philosophy where just that = people not liking her writing/philosophy. Not people with some personal lust for her failure.

And ultimately if one puts themselves out there they have to understand, and accept, that some of the things they do wont be accepted by all, and as such there will be criticism.