Originally posted by masterbruce
Superman can't toss Despero or DD into orbit because it's very hard. Those guys don't just sit quiet while Supe transports them out to space, they'll go kicking and screaming with class 100 blows. Also, Supes doesn't want to endanger other planets so tossing them to space without planning their trajectory is reckless and irresponsible behavior.on the other hand, Surfer doesn't transmute his powerful foes simply because he does not have the power to do so.
Originally posted by masterbruce
Superman DOES use his superspeed...unfortunately, most of his enemies possess superspeed as well, so its usefulness is limited.
Originally posted by masterbruce
no, DD was strugglying throughout and Superman was using all his might just to keep DD from reaching him
Complete fabrication...
Originally posted by Avlon
His power is energy...if his energy can't affect the object in the 1st place, how can it transmute it? Come on ...you have to do better than that.
Originally posted by Avlon
Which one of these can't Henshaw do? And since when is Thanos tech more advanced than New god tech, Oan tech, kryptonian tech, and the source wall?
And I never said that Thanos' tech was superior, I said there's a good chance it's specifically fortified against the Power Cosmic since Thanos has access to it himself.
Originally posted by Avlon
He's been shown to be transmuted...and you're making a ridiculous claim.
Originally posted by Avlon
Originally posted by Avlon
The tech in question has shown that it's adaptable, and it's host is top tier herald level as well AND it will be attacking him in tons of different ways from different angles, with forcefields, soul gems, energy absorbers, martian weapons, kryptonian weapons, oan weapons, apokalyptan weapons, godly weapons, cosmic weapons, etc. All with deadly pinpoint accuracy and no pis that has henshaw holding back.The burden of proof is on you...and I'm still waiting.
Originally posted by Avlon
LOL...it's still a brick...was it a cosmically enhanced brick or something?
Originally posted by Avlon
Funny, so is Henshaw after crisis...he's fully immortal for one and knows Oan tech inside out. Plus kryptonite that doesn't originate from his original universe doesn't affect the Supermen. Etc.
Originally posted by masterbruceYou don't think Superman could've employed more strength to throw him farther?
umm no...read goober's scan
And Superman's faced his fair share of people whom he could use superspeed to incapacitate/immobilize/obliterate before, and has not done just that.
Or heat vision.
Or BFR.
Originally posted by darthgoober
Just because something is an energy absorber doesn't mean that it can't be transmuted.
Where does it state that it was an energy absorber? And if it can't affect it in the 1st place, why would it be able to manipulate it.
Seriously, you aren't going to find an angle around it.
Originally posted by darthgoober
How about creating solid matter out of pure energy, has Henshaw ever done that? Because that's what it would come down to, Surfer transmutes the tech to energy which means that if Cyborg CAN'T recreate it from scratch he's screwed.
First you have to prove that SS can transmute it. So far your case hasn't done well. Second...Henshaw can absorb energy.
Originally posted by darthgoober
And I never said that Thanos' tech was superior, I said there's a good chance it's specifically fortified against the Power Cosmic since Thanos has access to it himself.
Well, considering Henshaw has tech superior to Thanos, why is this Thanos exclusive? And where is the proof that Thanos can't be transmuted..since you know..he kicks Surfers ass all the time.
I love the angle you guys are trying to pull now though. Ignore that SS is under heavy attack in every form possible, and try and debate a made up weakness without a shred of proof.
Originally posted by darthgoober
Again what does that have to do with whether or not Henshaw can be transmuted if he gives up all of his organic components?
Where have you seen ANY part of Henshaw transmuted by anyone?
Living metal on Surfer? He's vulnerable to Henshaw...but SS has tons of other things, and weapons to worry about. Source wall>>>>>Living metal.
Originally posted by darthgoober
My ass the burden of proof is on me. I just gave you a whole list of instances where Surfer transmuted advanced tech, now the burden of proof is on YOU to prove that the tech within the fortress is resistant to transmutation.
What you do with your ass is your perogative. All the tech instances you gave don't prove that Surfer out-techs henshaw at all. Hell, Metallo could have done half of that stuff at one point.
And you still haven't shown anyone transmuting henshaw (hint, it won't happen just as it doesn't happen to Surfer) transmuting the fortress, fighting all it's weapons, defending himself, etc.
So get your "ass" in gear to prove up your claim.
Originally posted by darthgoober
It was throw by a plot device while Surfer was battling the rest of the Inhumans...
It's ALL a plot device to you. You want to make excuses for my proof, and use your speculation to take it's place. Proven weakness vs your speculation.
Originally posted by darthgoober
Which just means that Surfer wouldn't create that particular version of K-nite, he'd create the kind that actually worked.
More speculation. As per infinite crisis..your debate is out of the window.
Especially considering that he hasn't even been shown to actually do it to gladiator outside of a boast.
Nice try.
Originally posted by AvlonWhat proof do you need. Silver Surfer has transmutated things before. Your only argument is that apparently Surfer can not change matter if it has a certain power level. Which is stupid because everytime he has actually tried to transmutate or manipulate something he has done it.
Where does it state that it was an energy absorber? And if it can't affect it in the 1st place, why would it be able to manipulate it.Seriously, you aren't going to find an angle around it.
First you have to prove that SS can transmute it. So far your case hasn't done well. Second...Henshaw can absorb energy.
Well, considering Henshaw has tech superior to Thanos, why is this Thanos exclusive? And where is the proof that Thanos can't be transmuted..since you know..he kicks Surfers ass all the time.
I love the angle you guys are trying to pull now though. Ignore that SS is under heavy attack in every form possible, and try and debate a made up weakness without a shred of proof.
Where have you seen ANY part of Henshaw transmuted by anyone?
Living metal on Surfer? He's vulnerable to Henshaw...but SS has tons of other things, and weapons to worry about. Source wall>>>>>Living metal.What you do with your ass is your perogative. All the tech instances you gave don't prove that Surfer out-techs henshaw at all. Hell, Metallo could have done half of that stuff at one point.
And you still haven't shown anyone transmuting henshaw (hint, it won't happen just as it doesn't happen to Surfer) transmuting the fortress, fighting all it's weapons, defending himself, etc.
So get your "ass" in gear to prove up your claim.
It's ALL a plot device to you. You want to make excuses for my proof, and use your speculation to take it's place. Proven weakness vs your speculation.
More speculation. As per infinite crisis..your debate is out of the window.
Especially considering that he hasn't even been shown to actually do it to gladiator outside of a boast.Nice try.
The only proof we have to give is that he can transmutate things which he can. Once again the only reason who are playing this game is because you yourself cannot give the proof that the Fortress can resist Matter Manip.
By the way you keep spouting off that Henshaw has better tech than Thanos. What proof do you have? What exactly does Superman possess from the Oans, and from the New Gods. You know because not every piece of Tech is better than Thanos. Considering what Thanos has done with tech throughout his career. I definitely know that Thanos tech is better than Kryptonian tech.
And I hate to tell you this but the only time Henshaw has actually faced someone willing to transmutate him he didn't do so well. So his track record doesn't exactly help him.
Originally posted by batdude123How was the Source Wall unable to transmutate him. Last time I checked Cyborg Supes was made of the Source Wall when superman talked to him.
Uh... yes. The Source Wall was unable to transmute him.And just in case you didn't know this, but if the SW could not keep him as a part of it, Surfer has no chance to transmute him.
lmao!
Also Batdude you are trying to make it sound like the Source wall could not hold him. When in fact the only thing that Cyborg Supes did was allow himself the ability to move in a small asteroid type base and the only reason he was able to do that was because the Source Wall did not care enough to keep him permanently trapped.
But as C. Supes said at anytime the Source Wall wanted to Henshaw wouldn't have any power to actually stop himself from being reabsorbed 🙂
Originally posted by batdude123
Uh... yes. The Source Wall was unable to transmute him.And just in case you didn't know this, but if the SW could not keep him as a part of it, Surfer has no chance to transmute him.
lmao!
👆 😖mart:
Everyone else who's touched the wall automatically came part of it..including gods. Borg actually took control of a nice sized portion and had total control over it.
Energy Supes tried to disrupt him, and that surely did not work.
Originally posted by Avlon
Where does it state that it was an energy absorber? And if it can't affect it in the 1st place, why would it be able to manipulate it.Seriously, you aren't going to find an angle around it.
First you have to prove that SS can transmute it. So far your case hasn't done well. Second...Henshaw can absorb energy.
Well, considering Henshaw has tech superior to Thanos, why is this Thanos exclusive? And where is the proof that Thanos can't be transmuted..since you know..he kicks Surfers ass all the time.
I love the angle you guys are trying to pull now though. Ignore that SS is under heavy attack in every form possible, and try and debate a made up weakness without a shred of proof.
Where have you seen ANY part of Henshaw transmuted by anyone?
Living metal on Surfer? He's vulnerable to Henshaw...but SS has tons of other things, and weapons to worry about. Source wall>>>>>Living metal.What you do with your ass is your perogative. All the tech instances you gave don't prove that Surfer out-techs henshaw at all. Hell, Metallo could have done half of that stuff at one point.
And you still haven't shown anyone transmuting henshaw (hint, it won't happen just as it doesn't happen to Surfer) transmuting the fortress, fighting all it's weapons, defending himself, etc.
So get your "ass" in gear to prove up your claim.
It's ALL a plot device to you. You want to make excuses for my proof, and use your speculation to take it's place. Proven weakness vs your speculation.
More speculation. As per infinite crisis..your debate is out of the window.
Especially considering that he hasn't even been shown to actually do it to gladiator outside of a boast.Nice try.
Surfer wins.
Originally posted by darthgoober
So when we strip away all the bullshit and sidestepping from your post, what you're saying is that you have no proof that Henshaw that is resistant to transmutation right?Surfer wins.
So in other words, you have no arguments and no way to present Surfer as actually getting wins in this situation. Not even a shred of proof to validate your wild claims.
Beautiful.
Originally posted by Avlon
So in other words, you have no arguments and no way to present Surfer as actually getting wins in this situation. Not even a shred of proof to validate your wild claims.Beautiful.
Now what evidence do you have of Henshaw's resistance to those things?
Originally posted by Soljer
So, what we've come to is:G: Avalon has no proof Henshaw can resist transmutation.
A: Goober has no proof the Surfer can transmute matter.
Hmmm....
Creates body for Quasimodo
http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/5528/ffannual05silversurfer0tl4.jpg
http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/3945/ffannual05silversurfer0vy1.jpg
http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/6572/ffannual05silversurfer0jv9.jpg
Transmutes Quasimodo into statue
http://img524.imageshack.us/img524/3681/ffannual05silversurfer1wr4.jpg
http://img524.imageshack.us/img524/2844/ffannual05silversurfer1ux2.jpg
Dissolves Quantum Bands knock off
http://img407.imageshack.us/img407/6808/silversurferv309823db5.jpg
Transmutes Legacy and the Nega Bands to trap them in his surfboard
http://img518.imageshack.us/img518/8547/silversurfer199612217bh0.jpg
Creates sophisticated weapon that employs cosmic energy
http://img243.imageshack.us/img243/3086/fantasticfourv105707traqz7.jpg
Changes the make up of Obliterator’s weapon systems
http://img525.imageshack.us/img525/4025/silversurfer198700521ts3.jpg
Rebuilds space fleet
http://img518.imageshack.us/img518/6967/ssenslavers77xr1.jpg
