Originally posted by masterbruceThe Fortress is matter and seeing as Silver Surfer can change matter from one form to another it is completely viable. So until there is a good reason why he cannot then Surfer simply changes the Fortress to stone.
you have merely offered a tactic. how viable it is we do not know.by the evidence and showings, evidence points that Surfer's transmutation power is very very limited
Originally posted by darthgoober
Let's see, he shut it down by exposing it to it's weakness, and then went on to reprogram the CPU of the ship. I'd classify that as dealing with it.
He ran out of the maze...and later shut the maze down. He couldn't take it on directly. Big difference.
Originally posted by darthgoober
Except that the silvery substance isn't actual metal, it's a form of solidified cosmic energy.
Wrong. It's a metal..which covers his body. Hell, it even has magnetic properties.
Originally posted by darthgoober
That's funny cause I'm still waiting for proof of the fortress resisting transmutation. Devices CAN be built to resist the power cosmic, but what proof do you have that the Fortress Qualifies as one of them? Who's tried to transmute it and failed?
It's your claim..so come up with the proof. I didn't come in saying that Surfer is vulnerable to things and not provide proof. So get to it.
Originally posted by darthgoober
And as punch from depowered Supes is a punch from depowered Supes. At least the brick had a plot device explanation for it, depowered Supes just knocked the shit out of Henshaw.
Depowered Supes>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Brick. Surfer wasn't depowered anywhere as much as you try to make it seem.
Originally posted by darthgoober
But at a far lower level.
Not as low as you'd like. Remember when Iron man absorbed Surfers energy and they double ko'd?
Originally posted by AvlonSo once again you can not actually provide proof that Fortress has resisted transmutation. So once again you are trying to play it off as our inability to get evidence. When in reality if you could put a scan forth that says it can not you would but you can't.
He ran out of the maze...and later shut the maze down. He couldn't take it on directly. Big difference.Wrong. It's a metal..which covers his body. Hell, it even has magnetic properties.
It's your claim..so come up with the proof. I didn't come in saying that Surfer is vulnerable to things and not provide proof. So get to it.
Depowered Supes>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Brick. Surfer wasn't depowered anywhere as much as you try to make it seem.
Not as low as you'd like. Remember when Iron man absorbed Surfers energy and they double ko'd?
Nice try though. So since you cannot actually dispute the claim the Fortress will be turned into Gold 🙂
Originally posted by Avlon
He ran out of the maze...and later shut the maze down. He couldn't take it on directly. Big difference.Wrong. It's a metal..which covers his body. Hell, it even has magnetic properties.
It's your claim..so come up with the proof. I didn't come in saying that Surfer is vulnerable to things and not provide proof. So get to it.
Depowered Supes>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Brick. Surfer wasn't depowered anywhere as much as you try to make it seem.
Not as low as you'd like. Remember when Iron man absorbed Surfers energy and they double ko'd?
Umm Avlon? It's a cosmic glaze, not a metal.
That being said, when has anyone ever transmuted Cyborg, besides Darkseid with the OE?
Originally posted by Avlon
He ran out of the maze...and later shut the maze down. He couldn't take it on directly. Big difference.
Originally posted by Avlon
Wrong. It's a metal..which covers his body. Hell, it even has magnetic properties.
Originally posted by Avlon
It's your claim..so come up with the proof. I didn't come in saying that Surfer is vulnerable to things and not provide proof. So get to it.
Originally posted by Avlon
Depowered Supes>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Brick. Surfer wasn't depowered anywhere as much as you try to make it seem.
Originally posted by Avlon
Not as low as you'd like. Remember when Iron man absorbed Surfers energy and they double ko'd?
Originally posted by Avlon
Originally posted by darthgoober
The fact that he didn't automatically means that he couldn't? So in that case we have to assume that just because Cyborg DIDN'T just transfer his consciousness into the nearby tech to continue the fight with Supes that he was unable to?
"My power seems to only invigorate the assailant."
"My ONLY choice is to flee."
Originally posted by darthgoober
Wrong, it's cosmic energy.
Cosmic METAL.
Originally posted by darthgoober
Tech doesn't have to be particularly vulnerable to transmutation, it just has to lack the resistance to it. Until it shows that resistance, it's assumed that no resistance is present. By the same token, until someone shows a resistance to telepathic attacks, we assume that they're as vulnerable as anybody else.
Wrong. Unless you mean that SS can transmute all of Thanos tech, Tyrants tech, and alien tech in general that he hasn't shown. It's acceptable that he can do it to some, but obvious that he can't do it to all.
Thanos has been transmuted once, and got upgraded, but it's never been said that he couldn't be transmuted again, or that weakness was removed.
The tech in question has shown that it's adaptable, and it's host is top tier herald level as well AND it will be attacking him in tons of different ways from different angles, with forcefields, soul gems, energy absorbers, martian weapons, kryptonian weapons, oan weapons, apokalyptan weapons, godly weapons, cosmic weapons, etc. All with deadly pinpoint accuracy and no pis that has henshaw holding back.
The burden of proof is on you.
Originally posted by darthgoober
BS. Depowered Supes(who was so weak he was unable to fly)<Karnak and the rest of the Inhumans.
All of those still >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>brick.
Originally posted by darthgoober
If you want to argue for a double KO that's your business...
More tech, Iron man is tons weaker than henshaw and nowhere near as advanced..etc.
Originally posted by darthgoober
Big deal the writer got it wrong. Anyone who reads Surfer avidly will tell you that it's far more often refered to something OTHER than actual metal(I just don't feel like looking through my archive for it). But if you want to use that for proof, when have you seen Henshaw override someones control over their living metal form?
The source wall is far more powerful, self repairing, and sentient than Surfers metallic body.
If Surfer touched it, he would automatically be part of the wall.
Henshaw was buried in it...and controlled and manipulated his portion.
Are you going to deny all on panel proof?
Originally posted by Newjak
He doesn't have to have better control over tech. He just has to transmutate it. That hardly becomes a battle of wills.Henshaw: I can control the very tech in this place to do my absolute bidding and despite your power you will not be able to overpower my will on it.
Silver Surfer: ok
Turns entire Fortress into sand
Henshaw: NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
This thing has nothing to do with Henshaw's control over the tech. It has to do with whether or not it can not be changed from tech to air.
😆
You're making an unfounded assumption here that Surfer would be able to transmute a being who can operate at a much higher level than Norrin can. Henshaw has perfect atomic control over anything he projects his consciousness into. Hell, after manipulating the Source Wall, he used the material in it to forge and reconstitute his body with it.
This has nothing to do with will. It has EVERYTHING to do with control and manipulation. If Hank is controlling the tech, there's no way I'm buying Surfer manipulating something/someone he has no hope of controlling/manipulating. It's downright laughable. Someone who has the power over tech that Cyborg Superman has isn't going to have said technology manipulated by a weaker force. Period.
It's funny how Norrin doesn't transmute Thanos before he bitchslaps him like a ho that owes him money all over the battlefield. And we've seen Adam Warlock transmute Thanos to stone before, so we know he isn't immune to it. Tactics like that don't come up against other heralds/cosmic types, but with Superman related characters...
And the fact that it took DARKSEID at full power to beat Henshaw when he was on a rampage is definitely not a low showing. LOL @ the logic of "well if Darkseid can do it, I KNOW Surfer can!!" That's called "failure" right there.
Bottom line: There's (imo, at least) too much for Hank to work with here. INCLUDING the Fortress Eradicator technology which is basically Surfer + Superman.
Norrin is outclassed here. Seriously, just think about this for a minute... someone who has SO much power over technology that he manipulated a portion of the SOURCE WALL is going to have his technology manipulated by the Surfer? One of the most ridiculous claims I've heard on here in awhile. And this is KMC we're talking about.
Originally posted by Avlon
"My power seems to only invigorate the assailant.""My ONLY choice is to flee."
Originally posted by Avlon
Cosmic METAL.
Originally posted by darthgoober
Big deal the writer got it wrong. Anyone who reads Surfer avidly will tell you that it's far more often refered to something OTHER than actual metal(I just don't feel like looking through my archive for it).
Originally posted by Avlon
Wrong. Unless you mean that SS can transmute all of Thanos tech, Tyrants tech, and alien tech in general that he hasn't shown. It's acceptable that he can do it to some, but obvious that he can't do it to all.
Creates body for Quasimodo
http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/5528/ffannual05silversurfer0tl4.jpg
http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/3945/ffannual05silversurfer0vy1.jpg
http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/6572/ffannual05silversurfer0jv9.jpg
Transmutes Quasimodo into statue
http://img524.imageshack.us/img524/3681/ffannual05silversurfer1wr4.jpg
http://img524.imageshack.us/img524/2844/ffannual05silversurfer1ux2.jpg
Dissolves Quantum Bands knock off
http://img407.imageshack.us/img407/6808/silversurferv309823db5.jpg
Transmutes Legacy and the Nega Bands to trap them in his surfboard
http://img518.imageshack.us/img518/8547/silversurfer199612217bh0.jpg
Creates sophisticated weapon that employs cosmic energy
http://img243.imageshack.us/img243/3086/fantasticfourv105707traqz7.jpg
Changes the make up of Obliterator’s weapon systems
http://img525.imageshack.us/img525/4025/silversurfer198700521ts3.jpg
Rebuilds space fleet
http://img518.imageshack.us/img518/6967/ssenslavers77xr1.jpg
Originally posted by Avlon
Thanos has been transmuted once, and got upgraded, but it's never been said that he couldn't be transmuted again, or that weakness was removed.
Originally posted by Avlon
The tech in question has shown that it's adaptable, and it's host is top tier herald level as well AND it will be attacking him in tons of different ways from different angles, with forcefields, soul gems, energy absorbers, martian weapons, kryptonian weapons, oan weapons, apokalyptan weapons, godly weapons, cosmic weapons, etc. All with deadly pinpoint accuracy and no pis that has henshaw holding back.The burden of proof is on you.
Originally posted by Avlon
All of those still >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>brick.
Originally posted by Avlon
More tech, Iron man is tons weaker than henshaw and nowhere near as advanced..etc.
Originally posted by batdude123
😆You're making an unfounded assumption here that Surfer would be able to transmute a being who can operate at a much higher level than Norrin can. Henshaw has perfect atomic control over anything he projects his consciousness into. Hell, after manipulating the Source Wall, he used the material in it to forge and reconstitute his body with it.
This has nothing to do with will. It has EVERYTHING to do with control and manipulation. If Hank is controlling the tech, there's no way I'm buying Surfer manipulating something/someone he has no hope of controlling/manipulating. It's downright laughable. Someone who has the power over tech that Cyborg Superman has isn't going to have said technology manipulated by a weaker force. Period.
It's funny how Norrin doesn't transmute Thanos before he bitchslaps him like a ho that owes him money all over the battlefield. And we've seen Adam Warlock transmute Thanos to stone before, so we know he isn't immune to it. Tactics like that don't come up against other heralds/cosmic types, but with Superman related characters...
And the fact that it took DARKSEID at full power to beat Henshaw when he was on a rampage is definitely not a low showing. LOL @ the logic of "well if Darkseid can do it, I [b]KNOW
Surfer can!!" That's called "failure" right there.Bottom line: There's (imo, at least) too much for Hank to work with here. INCLUDING the Fortress Eradicator technology which is basically Surfer + Superman.
Norrin is outclassed here. Seriously, just think about this for a minute... someone who has SO much power over technology that he manipulated a portion of the SOURCE WALL is going to have his technology manipulated by the Surfer? One of the most ridiculous claims I've heard on here in awhile. And this is KMC we're talking about. [/B]
Originally posted by batdude123Ok say it with me.
😆You're making an unfounded assumption here that Surfer would be able to transmute a being who can operate at a much higher level than Norrin can. Henshaw has perfect atomic control over anything he projects his consciousness into. Hell, after manipulating the Source Wall, he used the material in it to forge and reconstitute his body with it.
This has nothing to do with will. It has EVERYTHING to do with control and manipulation. If Hank is controlling the tech, there's no way I'm buying Surfer manipulating something/someone he has no hope of controlling/manipulating. It's downright laughable. Someone who has the power over tech that Cyborg Superman has isn't going to have said technology manipulated by a weaker force. Period.
It's funny how Norrin doesn't transmute Thanos before he bitchslaps him like a ho that owes him money all over the battlefield. And we've seen Adam Warlock transmute Thanos to stone before, so we know he isn't immune to it. Tactics like that don't come up against other heralds/cosmic types, but with Superman related characters...
And the fact that it took DARKSEID at full power to beat Henshaw when he was on a rampage is definitely not a low showing. LOL @ the logic of "well if Darkseid can do it, I [b]KNOW
Surfer can!!" That's called "failure" right there.Bottom line: There's (imo, at least) too much for Hank to work with here. INCLUDING the Fortress Eradicator technology which is basically Surfer + Superman.
Norrin is outclassed here. Seriously, just think about this for a minute... someone who has SO much power over technology that he manipulated a portion of the SOURCE WALL is going to have his technology manipulated by the Surfer? One of the most ridiculous claims I've heard on here in awhile. And this is KMC we're talking about. [/B]
Transmutation is the turning of one substance from form of matter into another
i.e. Lead into Gold,
Cyborg Supes may have great control over a tech based body that allows him to turn that tech based body into any physical shape but show me C. Supes actually changing his tech from one substance into another. Oh wait you can't. So while Henshaw may have better control over tech there is no evidence he can resist having it changed itno non tech.
And why doesn't Silver Surfer transmutate everyone eh comes across? The same reason Superman doesn't toss Despero or Doomsday into orbit every time he fights. Makes for a very boring fight.
Oh and just for reference C. Supes was only able to do what he did with the Source wall because he basically was being quiet. Anytime the Source wanted Henshaw knew it would just trap him agian and there wasn't anythignhe could do about.
Oh and FYI Surfer has manipulated the energies of the Crunch before. 😉
Originally posted by batdude123
And the fact that it took DARKSEID at full power to beat Henshaw when he was on a rampage is definitely not a low showing. LOL @ the logic of "well if Darkseid can do it, I [b]KNOW Surfer can!!" That's called "failure" right there.[/B]
Originally posted by NewjakAnd why doesn't Silver Surfer transmutate everyone eh comes across? The same reason Superman doesn't toss Despero or Doomsday into orbit every time he fights. Makes for a very boring fight.
Superman can't toss Despero or DD into orbit because it's very hard. Those guys don't just sit quiet while Supe transports them out to space, they'll go kicking and screaming with class 100 blows. Also, Supes doesn't want to endanger other planets so tossing them to space without planning their trajectory is reckless and irresponsible behavior.
on the other hand, Surfer doesn't transmute his powerful foes simply because he does not have the power to do so.
Originally posted by masterbruceAre you really trying to say the guy that destroys planets and creates Black Holes doesn't have enough power 😬
Superman can't toss Despero or DD into orbit because it's very hard. Those guys don't just sit quiet while Supe transports them out to space, they'll go kicking and screaming with class 100 blows. Also, Supes doesn't want to endanger other planets so tossing them to space without planning their trajectory is reckless and irresponsible behavior.on the other hand, Surfer doesn't transmute his powerful foes simply because he does not have the power to do so.
Ok how about this example why doesn't Superman always use his Superspeed to end matches quickly better for ya 😛
Originally posted by masterbruce
Superman can't toss Despero or DD into orbit because it's very hard. Those guys don't just sit quiet while Supe transports them out to space, they'll go kicking and screaming with class 100 blows. Also, Supes doesn't want to endanger other planets so tossing them to space without planning their trajectory is reckless and irresponsible behavior.on the other hand, Surfer doesn't transmute his powerful foes simply because he does not have the power to do so.
Originally posted by darthgoober
I didn't see him try to transmute that thing. Surfer's statement is very similar to Supes stating that Thor was possibly the toughest opponent he'd ever faced(and that was AFTER he had a couple of wins over DS, and had fought H/P Doomsday).
His power is energy...if his energy can't affect the object in the 1st place, how can it transmute it? Come on ...you have to do better than that.
Originally posted by darthgoober
Well if course he never transmuted Thanos or Tyrants tech, they're the types to prepare for that kind of thing. As far as sophisticated tech in general though...Creates body for Quasimodo
http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/5528/ffannual05silversurfer0tl4.jpg
http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/3945/ffannual05silversurfer0vy1.jpg
http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/6572/ffannual05silversurfer0jv9.jpgTransmutes Quasimodo into statue
http://img524.imageshack.us/img524/3681/ffannual05silversurfer1wr4.jpg
http://img524.imageshack.us/img524/2844/ffannual05silversurfer1ux2.jpgDissolves Quantum Bands knock off
http://img407.imageshack.us/img407/6808/silversurferv309823db5.jpgTransmutes Legacy and the Nega Bands to trap them in his surfboard
http://img518.imageshack.us/img518/8547/silversurfer199612217bh0.jpgCreates sophisticated weapon that employs cosmic energy
http://img243.imageshack.us/img243/3086/fantasticfourv105707traqz7.jpgChanges the make up of Obliterator’s weapon systems
http://img525.imageshack.us/img525/4025/silversurfer198700521ts3.jpgRebuilds space fleet
http://img518.imageshack.us/img518/6967/ssenslavers77xr1.jpg
Which one of these can't Henshaw do? And since when is Thanos tech more advanced than New god tech, Oan tech, kryptonian tech, and the source wall?
Originally posted by darthgoober
What the Hell does Thanos have to do with anything?
He's been shown to be transmuted...and you're making a ridiculous claim.
Originally posted by darthgoober
I didn't see a resistance to transmutation ANYWHERE on that list. Surfer's shown the ability to manipulate pretty much every energy type that he's encountered, does that mean he could manipulate the OE?
Originally posted by Avlon
The tech in question has shown that it's adaptable, and it's host is top tier herald level as well AND it will be attacking him in tons of different ways from different angles, with forcefields, soul gems, energy absorbers, martian weapons, kryptonian weapons, oan weapons, apokalyptan weapons, godly weapons, cosmic weapons, etc. All with deadly pinpoint accuracy and no pis that has henshaw holding back.
The burden of proof is on you...and I'm still waiting.
Originally posted by darthgoober
And who threw the brick again?
LOL...it's still a brick...was it a cosmically enhanced brick or something?
Originally posted by darthgoober
And Surfer's a lot more powerful as of Annihilation...
Funny, so is Henshaw after crisis...he's fully immortal for one and knows Oan tech inside out. Plus kryptonite that doesn't originate from his original universe doesn't affect the Supermen. Etc.
