Originally posted by chickenlover98
afterlife is bullshit. its just an invention to stop you from being scared of death. even though no on ewnats to die ne ways. you'd people would be happy to die so they can go to heaven but instead you cling to life when theres eternal bliss? u people are idiots. i hope you realize that
Swearing and calling people idiots is not only unproductive and immature, but rather wrong to say. People can believe in things for rational reasons....and even when the belief is debunkable (some are much more easily debunked than others), most times the person isn't aware of this, so their beliefs make perfect sense with the information available to them. So misinformed, perhaps. Idiots, no. At least not debbie, who I think this comment was aimed at.
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As for the conservation of energy thing, yes, matter can be created and destroyed on a subatomic level. But trying to apply such scientific concepts to matters of spirituality (and of the afterlife) is suspect at best. The leap of logic required to equate one directly with the other is often enormous, just as the many attempts to relate quantum physics to matters of spirituality (Deepak Chopra among them, for an example....though there are others).
Originally posted by DigiMark007
Swearing and calling people idiots is not only unproductive and immature, but rather wrong to say. People can believe in things for rational reasons....and even when the belief is debunkable (some are much more easily debunked than others), most times the person isn't aware of this, so their beliefs make perfect sense with the information available to them. So misinformed, perhaps. Idiots, no. At least not debbie, who I think this comment was aimed at.....
As for the conservation of energy thing, yes, matter can be created and destroyed on a subatomic level. But trying to apply such scientific concepts to matters of spirituality (and of the afterlife) is suspect at best. The leap of logic required to equate one directly with the other is often enormous, just as the many attempts to relate quantum physics to matters of spirituality (Deepak Chopra among them, for an example....though there are others).
not directed at debbie. people in general. you admit its a mechanism of fear right? the fact that adams would lead to heaven is rediculus. the fact that the conservation of energy exists means nothing. infact your consciousness would be destroyed because ur atoms separate.
Originally posted by chickenlover98
not directed at debbie. people in general. you admit its a mechanism of fear right? the fact that adams would lead to heaven is rediculus. the fact that the conservation of energy exists means nothing. infact your consciousness would be destroyed because ur atoms separate.
You obviously have reason to beleive what you beleive, but if another's perspective does not harm you, then why attack it so ?
If it makes someone feel happy to beleive that they will one day see thier loved ones, why destroy that ?
Is not Quality of Life more important than "the truth" ?
Originally posted by SpearofDestiny
Is not Quality of Life more important than "the truth" ?
That's actually highly questionable logic, especially when a person feels like their way of thinking would bring about a higher quality of life over that of a particular belief system. So individually, sure, you have a point. On a cultural level, though, I'd disagree with this statement.
Originally posted by chickenlover98
you admit its a mechanism of fear right?
For some. But probably not as many as you suspect.
Originally posted by DigiMark007
That's actually highly questionable logic, especially when a person feels like their way of thinking would bring about a higher quality of life over that of a particular belief system. So individually, sure, you have a point. On a cultural level, though, I'd disagree with this statement.
Why ?
If Buddhism were somehow proven "untrue", I doubt Buddhists would stop practicing. If the cycle of reincarnation were disproven, it wouldn't change the Buddhist Principles of Respect for all Living Beings. It wouldn't keep them from meditating further and replenishing thier lives through mental discipline.
My idea about the possibility of an afterlife was just a guess, but it's not a priority for me. And as fascinated as I am about the complexity of the universe, I personally couldn't care less how it really came to be. Whether it was never created, created by God, or a complete accident, it wouldn't change my perception of what it is, nor my appreciation of it.
And whether I find out that my loved ones actually have a soul, or are just the product of biochemistry, neither would change my love for them.
If searching for "the Truth" can help you live a better life and understand the way things work, then I'm all for it. But if you are just trying to disprove what people believe, and "rationalize" everything by trying to simplify all phenomena to a physically recognizable level, than NO, I don't care for it.
I would rather live my life beleiving and living the things I now perceive and be happy as such, than to live my life thinking that we are all here by accident, and that my life is nothing more than a series of coincidences and random happenings and be miserable.
Originally posted by SpearofDestiny
Why ?If Buddhism were somehow proven "untrue", I doubt Buddhists would stop practicing. If the cycle of reincarnation were disproven, it wouldn't change the Buddhist Principles of Respect for all Living Beings. It wouldn't keep them from meditating further and replenishing thier lives through mental discipline.
My idea about the possibility of an afterlife was just a guess, but it's not a priority for me. And as fascinated as I am about the complexity of the universe, I personally couldn't care less how it really came to be. Whether it was never created, created by God, or a complete accident, it wouldn't change my perception of what it is, nor my appreciation of it.
And whether I find out that my loved ones actually have a soul, or are just the product of biochemistry, neither would change my love for them.
If searching for "the Truth" can help you live a better life and understand the way things work, then I'm all for it. But if you are just trying to disprove what people believe, and "rationalize" everything by trying to simplify all phenomena to a physically recognizable level, than NO, I don't care for it.
I would rather live my life beleiving and living the things I now perceive and be happy as such, than to live my life thinking that we are all here by accident, and that my life is nothing more than a series of coincidences and random happenings and be miserable.
you are comfortable in your beliefs. its what draws people to religion. whether you beliueve your correct or not, doesnt change the fact its a common feeling. its a sense of longing. to see dead loved ones and to continue on. it has its appeal. im all for the idea, except there is no proof. why should humans be the only one to recieve this? it makes every sensible notion of hope rediculus. the karmic cycle is rediculus when u factor in animals. how can u be a good frog? u need a dose of our world. i can see where ur coming from. can u see where im coming from?
PROOF. the burden of all claims. i would love to accept here will be happiness and love and bla bla bla. but proof still makes it rediculus. im sorry if our ideas our hard to understand. i just hope u realize why i say what i do and what motivats me
Originally posted by chickenlover98
you are comfortable in your beliefs. its what draws people to religion. whether you beliueve your correct or not, doesnt change the fact its a common feeling. its a sense of longing. to see dead loved ones and to continue on. it has its appeal. im all for the idea, except there is no proof. why should humans be the only one to recieve this? it makes every sensible notion of hope rediculus. the karmic cycle is rediculus when u factor in animals. how can u be a good frog? u need a dose of our world. i can see where ur coming from. can u see where im coming from?PROOF. the burden of all claims. i would love to accept here will be happiness and love and bla bla bla. but proof still makes it rediculus. im sorry if our ideas our hard to understand. i just hope u realize why i say what i do and what motivats me
Karma, according to Buddhist thinking, is not about being "good or bad".
It's about cause and effect. Whatever choices you make will result in a chain reaction of effects, which will be causes for more effects to come. The "good" and "bad" is only what you recognize them as.
If I have a conflicted mind, and I have thoughts of anger or tension towards myself or another, then most of my words and actions will be the result of my mentality. If I do not change my mentality, I will live life through a series of conflict, conflict which I invite myself to.
If I work to change my mentality, then I may achieve personal peace through right behavior, which in turn will attract peaceful people, which in turn will encourage my behavior even further, and so on and on.
You create your own karma, no outside force writes it out for you. You are confusing Hindu concept of Karma with Buddhist's concept. They are not the same.
As for animals, animal behavior is far more complex than you are trying to make it out to be. Also, you are not a wild animal, so you do not know what a wild animal's life is really like. You do not know their thought processes. They aren't as simple as you imagine.
Animals don't all behave the same, in fact, two animals of the same species can have very different behaviors and personalities. Do you have a dog ? If you do, you would know what I am talking about.
The karmic cycle applies to every animal. If an animal chooses to adhere to its pack (wolves or lions for example), its chances of survival increase. If an animal chooses to rebel or wander, its chance of survival may decrease.
Some lions and tigers do not survive because they would not adhere to thier parent's teachings on hunting. Mother lionesses and mother tigers teach thier young to hunt. A cub who cannot adhere to her teachings will die. A cub who learns will survive.
Animal behavior is complex. Do some research, and see what I am talking about.
Originally posted by SpearofDestiny
Why ?
I answered why in my last post.
And Buddhism was never mentioned until you brought it up. You made a quality of life vs. truth point, and I offered a dissenting opinion. I never once brought Buddhism into the equation, because it was a generalized question...no one religion would mean anything to the point I was trying to make.
But to chicken: People don't need to smack you across the face with their entire belief system and proofs in order for you to do something besides insult it. In this case, since it was SoD, Buddhism has its case laid out (rather clearly, imo) over the course of its history, and most of it doesn't actually involve much that is mystical. There's still stuff wrong with it, but it does better than most religions in staying rational.
Originally posted by DigiMark007
And Buddhism was never mentioned until you brought it up. You made a quality of life vs. truth point, and I offered a dissenting opinion. I never once brought Buddhism into the equation, because it was a generalized question...no one religion would mean anything to the point I was trying to make.
I don't see the connection.
I was asking you why is it more important to know the absolute truth about reality, than to live a good life ?
Like I said before, to me, the way we treat other people is far more important than discovering how the universe came to be. Ofcourse, the mystery of the universe is far grander and far more fascinating, but the mystery of what it is or isn't, isn't a problem for humanity.
Humanity's only problems lie in our suffering and quality of life. Therefore, to me, what is vital to human development is how we treat each other, and what kind of lives we live.
I wasn't discussing Buddhism when I asked you that question....if you already supplied an answer, I would appreciate if you quote where, because I do not see such an answer.
Originally posted by SpearofDestiny
I don't see the connection.I was asking you why is it more important to know the absolute truth about reality, than to live a good life ?
Like I said before, to me, the way we treat other people is far more important than discovering how the universe came to be. Ofcourse, the mystery of the universe is far grander and far more fascinating, but the mystery of what it is or isn't, isn't a problem for humanity.
Humanity's only problems lie in our suffering and quality of life. Therefore, to me, what is [b]vital
to human development is how we treat each other, and what kind of lives we live.I wasn't discussing Buddhism when I asked you that question....if you already supplied an answer, I would appreciate if you quote where, because I do not see such an answer. [/B]
You're trying to make an either/or dichotomy that shouldn't exist. Truth and quality of life should be one in the same ideally. They don't need to be mutually exclusive. And if I feel like informing someone who is living a lie, even a harmless lie, it isn't to increase strife in the world, but merely because by shedding truth on the subject, the person's life (outlook, actions, etc.) should improve.
Sometimes it would increase suffering and wouldn't direcrly help things, so that's when I refrain. But the truth can rarely be a bad thing....and your logic as written could be used to perpetuate all kinds of organized religious nonsense.
Originally posted by DigiMark007
You're trying to make an either/or dichotomy that shouldn't exist.
No I'm not. That's simply how you are taking it.
Originally posted by DigiMark007
Truth and quality of life should be one in the same ideally.
But that's not always the case. And it depends what you mean by "truth", assuming that we can even know total truth.
If you met a girl who has low self esteem, and you find her to be rather physically unattractive, are you going to tell her that ? Are you going to crush her confidense by telling her how ugly you really think she looks, or are you going to lie and tell her that you think she is pretty for her own sake ?
"The Truth will set you Free"....right ?
I agree that Truth and Quality of Life should be the same, but that's not always the case.
Originally posted by DigiMark007
They don't need to be mutually exclusive. And if I feel like informing someone who is living a lie, even a harmless lie, it isn't to increase strife in the world, but merely because by shedding truth on the subject, the person's life (outlook, actions, etc.) should improve.
I didn't say they should be mutually exclusive. That's simply how you are taking it.
What I don't understand is our obsession with how humanity, the world, and the universe came about. Yes, it's a wondorful subject, but ultamately what does it matter ?
Do you care if your mother or girlfreind has a soul ? Or if she's nothing more than the composition of numerous chemicals ? Would it make a difference to you ? Would you love her any less ?
If a Truth leads to further progression, than that's great. But if our obsession with discovering Truth only leads to conflict, distraction, and tension, than I don't care for it.
Originally posted by DigiMark007
Sometimes it would increase suffering and wouldn't direcrly help things, so that's when I refrain.
Okay, that answers previous question.....
Originally posted by DigiMark007
But the truth can rarely be a bad thing....
Didn't say it was. I am simply saying that Quality of Life matters more. If a person is happy being Christian, than who are you or myself to try and destroy that ?
I speak from experience. I have a teacher who used to remind me of myself....she tries SO hard to disprove Christianity, even when she knows there are many good Christians who live happily with thier Faith.
Does her assumption of the "truth" matter so much that she should continue trying to break people's personal faiths ?
Originally posted by DigiMark007
and your logic as written could be used to perpetuate all kinds of organized religious nonsense.
Emphasizing on how we treat other people, instead of finding out our true origin as a species, can be used to perpetuate all kinds of organized religious nonsense ? 😬