Namor, The Sub-Mariner vs Wolverine

Originally posted by jinzin
Wolverine flat out ignored Namor in that fight and then he dropped him. Namor "won" that fight by having sheer overwhelming numbers, multiple super humans, a taxed out mutant healing factor and a sneak attack on his side.. Wolverine obviously wasn't trying to kill Namor.. the guy who knows every major artery, organ, and pressure point isn't going to "miss" killing someong with six knives.

Before the initial trip, Wolvie was not ignoring Namor. After the trip, Wolvie was talking while getting dressed and started running. Namor caught up with him and floored him. Wolvie then got up put his fists to the chest, then extracted the claws. How did Namor win the fight due to numbers? When Wolvie got ko'd, there was no one fighting. Namor came up behind him and said Imperius. Wolvie wasnt trying to kill Namor, but instead he gutted him so that hed be able to get right back up and knock him out?

Originally posted by jinzin
what do you mean so? he had to use a tree.. that's the point, he had to use a weapon that gave him range and an advantage in melee with Wolverine because he thought he was going to lose otherwise.. Yes that fight itself was even so I don't disagree with you there..

After the fist two swings in the fight, it was clear Namor knew Wolvie was controlled. Using a tree to swat him away, ws not because he was going to lose.

Originally posted by jinzin
Oh please, Wolverine brings his claws to every fight.. they're part of his daily arsenal... How many fights does namor bring that tree to again?

Umm, Namor has used a tree in an encounter against Herc. Hed used objects in fights plenty of times. This instance of him using a weapon isnt something thats unseen from him. Hell, he used a I-beam in Invaders on Wolvie. I guess cause there were no trees around. Its not because he feels hes about to be defeated.

Originally posted by jinzin
abriged that reads as
"my prides not so great that I believe I could have beat him if he were anything more than mindcontrolled"

How does that read to you that that means he can beat logan mind controlled or not?
🤨

Im not sure if you read the comic, but before that quote, Namor and SSSesthugar were talking about will. He mentioned Namor would be taken control of just like Wolvie. Namor was saying that the control has been broken before. Him saying "My pride is not so great..." means he doesnt have to have a bunch of pride to know that he could have beat Wolvie mind controlled.

Some would say they could beat someone by using their pride and not admitting they wuold be defeated. Namor was basically saying that he didnt need pride to say he could have still defeated Wolvie.
Not sure if you comprehended what he was saying.😬

got work. Be back later.😄

Namor wins easily.
He just grabs Logan's wrists at superspeed, flies into the water, wraps his legs around him, and drowns him ftw.

Originally posted by jrodslam
Before the initial trip, Wolvie was not ignoring Namor. After the trip, Wolvie was talking while getting dressed and started running. Namor caught up with him and floored him. Wolvie then got up put his fists to the chest, then extracted the claws. How did Namor win the fight due to numbers? When Wolvie got ko'd, there was no one fighting. Namor came up behind him and said Imperius. Wolvie wasnt trying to kill Namor, but instead he gutted him so that hed be able to get right back up and knock him out?

The point is that he ignored Namor during the fight, he wasn't fighting at optimum levels mentally as well as physically and he was still kicking Namor's ass.
Hell he could have stabbed him in their first connection but he didn't have his claws out.

What? are you serious..

Namor had the advantage of Nitro blowing Wolverine to a skeleton effectively reducing the productivity of his healing factor.
Wolverine had to fight his royal guard twice, and infact if it wasn't for his guards interference in the end of that fight Wolverine would have never had his back exposed to Namor for that sucker punch. The numbers game played a HUGE factor.. that's not even up for debate.
He gutted didn't gut him he stabbed him through what looks to be directly above the sternum and below the heart.. If he wanted to kill Namor he would have went for vitals or at least a half assed attempt at a follow through.. he didn't...
He was trying to KO him and he severly underestimated Namor's tolerance for pain.
It cost him.

Originally posted by jrodslam
After the fist two swings in the fight, it was clear Namor knew Wolvie was controlled. Using a tree to swat him away, ws not because he was going to lose.

It heavily suggests that he needed a weapon for what he wasn't getting done on his lonesome.

Originally posted by jrodslam
Umm, Namor has used a tree in an encounter against Herc. Hed used objects in fights plenty of times. This instance of him using a weapon isnt something thats unseen from him. Hell, he used a I-beam in Invaders on Wolvie. I guess cause there were no trees around. Its not because he feels hes about to be defeated.

What I'm saying is that comparing Wolverine's claws to weapons that Namor has to pick up to give him a reach advantage it ridiculous because Namor doesn't have those as part of his arsenal whereas Wolverin's claws ARE.

Originally posted by jrodslam
Im not sure if you read the comic, but before that quote, Namor and SSSesthugar were talking about will. He mentioned Namor would be taken control of just like Wolvie. Namor was saying that the control has been broken before. Him saying "My pride is not so great..." means he doesnt have to have a bunch of pride to know that he could have beat Wolvie mind controlled.

No it doesn't.... 😬
"Namor's pride is not so great that I believe I could have defeated Wolverine"

he makes NO mention of whether or not he could take Wolverine if he himself was being controlled. At all... you're reaching. Seriously...

Originally posted by jrodslam
Some would say they could beat someone by using their pride and not admitting they wuold be defeated. Namor was basically saying that he didnt need pride to say he could have still defeated Wolvie.
Not sure if you comprehended what he was saying.😬

got work. Be back later.😄

Originally posted by h1a8
Namor wins easily.
He just grabs Logan's wrists at superspeed, flies into the water, wraps his legs around him, and drowns him ftw.

I think I'm now dumber for having read that post.. thank you..

Originally posted by jinzin
No the regen was before he took control of the crystal actually.

Most of what you said is reasonable, intelligent people can read the same thing and interpret it differently or like different things about it, but I gotta call BS on this one. The captions on those panels say (caps and elipsis in original text) "BEFORE HIS EYES... ...BETWEEN ONE BLINK AND THE NEXT... ...HE BEHOLDS THE MIRACLE OF LIFE, BEGUN ANEW." while the new body is created floating mid-air and glowing with energy.

That's not his normal regeneration, he was clearly supercharged by the crystal's magic. By the end of the page he even says as much.

(This ish is one of my favorites actually, great story, characterization, and art).

Originally posted by jinzin
I think I'm now dumber for having read that post.. thank you..

😆 I like you. You're pretty funny.

Hehe, Namor pwned Wolverine in the recent Sub-Mariner #3.

Crushed every organ in his body.

Just thought you should know.

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
Hehe, Namor pwned Wolverine in the recent Sub-Mariner #3.

Crushed every organ in his body.

Just thought you should know.

Ok I dont wanna real say it but....its about god damn time!

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
Hehe, Namor pwned Wolverine in the recent Sub-Mariner #3.

Crushed every organ in his body.

Just thought you should know.

Originally posted by Acrosurge
I went to Namor's respect thread just so I could read the fight. My day has been made.

At first I thought DS wa exaggerating. Hey it even says that Wolverine plunged his claws into Namors body but didnt kill him. Ok everyone lets throw a party. w00t

Oh er guys theres a problem.....somebody could point out that Namor jumped into the swimming pool, but at any rate Namor was winning. Before he went in the swimming pool he was knocking Wolverine all over the place and evaded a kllling blow, if he hadnt gone in the swimming pool it would have just taken Namor longer to take Wolverine down. Namor used the water to speed up the process.

Originally posted by Alfheim
At first I thought DS wa exaggerating. Hey it even says that Wolverine plunged his claws into Namors body but didnt kill him. Ok everyone lets throw a party. w00t

Oh er guys theres a problem.....somebody could point out that Namor jumped into the swimming pool, but at any rate Namor was winning. Before he went in the swimming pool he was knocking Wolverine all over the place and evaded a kllling blow, if he hadnt gone in the swimming pool it would have just taken Namor longer to take Wolverine down. Namor used the water to speed up the process.

Agreed, namor can pound wolverine with ax handles all day, one of them will eventually knock him out.

And by KMC rules, thats a "W", even if he's only KO'ed for a matter of seconds.

edit

Originally posted by Laminator_X
Most of what you said is reasonable, intelligent people can read the same thing and interpret it differently or like different things about it, but I gotta call BS on this one. The captions on those panels say (caps and elipsis in original text) "BEFORE HIS EYES... ...BETWEEN ONE BLINK AND THE NEXT... ...HE BEHOLDS THE MIRACLE OF LIFE, BEGUN ANEW." while the new body is created [b]floating mid-air and glowing with energy.

That's not his normal regeneration, he was clearly supercharged by the crystal's magic. By the end of the page he even says as much.

(This ish is one of my favorites actually, great story, characterization, and art). [/B]

No you misunderstood my outlook on it....

You asked/stated that that was the Godlike Wolverine and no it wasn't.. Wolverine didn't get Godlike until after he got ahold of the crystal, of course the Crystal charged his healing factor up though, that much was obvious when he made the "given sufficient energy" comment.. but the regneration itself was before Wolverine grabbed the crystal hence before the Godlike, I wasn't trying to convey that the crystal had nothing to do with it, sorry if it came out that way.

Namor already won.

Originally posted by jinzin
No you misunderstood my outlook on it....

You asked/stated that that was the Godlike Wolverine and no it wasn't.. Wolverine didn't get Godlike until after he got ahold of the crystal, of course the Crystal charged his healing factor up though, that much was obvious when he made the "given sufficient energy" comment.. but the regneration itself was before Wolverine grabbed the crystal hence before the Godlike, I wasn't trying to convey that the crystal had nothing to do with it, sorry if it came out that way.

Gotcha, that makes more sense.

Originally posted by Alfheim
At first I thought DS wa exaggerating. Hey it even says that Wolverine plunged his claws into Namors body but didnt kill him. Ok everyone lets throw a party. w00t

Oh er guys theres a problem.....somebody could point out that Namor jumped into the swimming pool, but at any rate Namor was winning. Before he went in the swimming pool he was knocking Wolverine all over the place and evaded a kllling blow, if he hadnt gone in the swimming pool it would have just taken Namor longer to take Wolverine down. Namor used the water to speed up the process.

He didn't eveade a killing blow.. If you failed to notice, Wolverine hit him in practically the exact same place as last time, which as Namor pointed out there were no vitals there....

A killing blow would have been for the throat or the face. Funny how the only time Wolverine ever hits namor in the head is when his claws are IN huh?

Originally posted by jinzin
The point is that he ignored Namor during the fight, he wasn't fighting at optimum levels mentally as well as physically and he was still kicking Namor's ass.
Hell he could have stabbed him in their first connection but he didn't have his claws out.

What? are you serious..

Namor had the advantage of Nitro blowing Wolverine to a skeleton effectively reducing the productivity of his healing factor.
Wolverine had to fight his royal guard twice, and infact if it wasn't for his guards interference in the end of that fight Wolverine would have never had his back exposed to Namor for that sucker punch. The numbers game played a HUGE factor.. that's not even up for debate.
He gutted didn't gut him he stabbed him through what looks to be directly above the sternum and below the heart.. If he wanted to kill Namor he would have went for vitals or at least a half assed attempt at a follow through.. he didn't...
He was trying to KO him and he severly underestimated Namor's tolerance for pain.
It cost him.

Neither him nor Namor were fighting at optimum levels. And Wolverine was kicking Namors ass? Are YOU serious? You mention he could have stabbed Namor at first connection, but if you noticed when Namor hit him, Wolvie had the claws extracted. Maybe Namor hit him before he could get off the stab.

You mention Wolvies healing factor not being as productive anymore from being blown up by Nitro? Umm 2 issues before? He clearly didnt show any signs of healing factor being reduced. Also, by time he engaged Namor, he had ample time to heal whatever wounds he may have had. The guard ran to Wolvie to engage, and Wolvie EASIY took him down. Whether the guard ran over or not, Wolvies back would have been turned either way because Wolvie was after Nitro. Numbers game my ass. You dont think Wolvie was trying to kill or inflict serious pain on Namor? " 'Cept is GORE people to death." I guess Wolvie was teasing.😬
Wolvie underestimated Namors tolerance for pain? Thats a horrible excuse considering he knows Namor pretty well and has both stabbed and sliced him in previous encounters. It cost him indeed, but not due to underestimating Namor. Due to missing.

Originally posted by jinzin
It heavily suggests that he needed a weapon for what he wasn't getting done on his lonesome.

Well initially, Namor seemed as if he didnt even want to fight. And what what he trying to get done? Knock him out? Before using the tree, Namor delivered only 2 hits. One was to get Wolvie off him, and the other was a stun kick. Because he knew Wolvie was being controlled, he held back in his attacking.

Originally posted by jinzin
I'm not saying that he hasn't done that at all or that it's infeasable for him to do so...

What I'm saying is that comparing Wolverine's claws to weapons that Namor has to pick up to give him a reach advantage it ridiculous because Namor doesn't have those as part of his arsenal whereas Wolverin's claws ARE.

I hear what youre saying, but to say Namor used a weapon cause he saw that he was losing or going to lose is absurd. If he picks up a tree, uses an I-beam, car, boulder or whatever, its because he can. Powerhouses have that luxury of doing stuff like that. However, im not going to say things like "He won because he used a steel pole." or something like that. If the fight was suppose to be pure h2h, then THAT is a different story.

Originally posted by jinzin
Oh please don't be so arrogant and insulting, yes I've read the comic, I have the comic, how else would I be able to SCAN the comic? 🤨

No it doesn't.... 😬
"Namor's pride is not so great that I believe I could have defeated Wolverine"

he makes NO mention of whether or not he could take Wolverine if he himself was being controlled. At all... you're reaching. Seriously...

Arrogant and insulting? Thats not my style. How else would you be able to post the scan of the comic? Now youre being insulting my friend. We ALL know that posting a scan doesnt mean you actually own the comic and/or scanned it yourself. They are many people here who post scans, and dont know what happened before the scan in question.

How am i reaching? Namor is probably the most prideful character in comic book hstory. Even if he knows his opponent is more powerful or stronger, hed still talk trash and say hed beat that persons ass.

Him saying "My pride is not so great...", is him saying that its not his pride talking at all. I figured youd understand that.

Originally posted by jinzin
That doesn't even make sense...
Nice to see how insulting you can be when you're wrong though 🙄
I've already posted the page so it can be left up to the masses.. but the whole context of that conversation was basically giving Wolverine props...

That doesnt make sense to you probably because you dont understand. You think im trying to be insulting, but most people who know prideful characters ESPECALLY Namor, knows that hed talk treash and say he could beat someone no matter what. People have made comments on his pride from Cap, Ironman, Reed, Attuma, Strange, etc. Him saying what he said, HOW he said it is basically saying that his pride has nothing to do with what he was saying re: fighting Wolvie.

Thats like me saying i can beat Jordan in basketball, and you tell me."Aww jrod, thats just your pride talking." I come back and say.."My pride's not that great that i believe i can beat....."

Namor was giving Wolvie props in a way, because he had faith in him, but Wolvies will was indeed broken like stated. Untill he was accidently freed ofcourse.

Originally posted by jinzin
He didn't eveade a killing blow.. If you failed to notice, Wolverine hit him in practically the exact same place as last time, which as Namor pointed out there were no vitals there....

A killing blow would have been for the throat or the face. Funny how the only time Wolverine ever hits namor in the head is when his claws are IN huh?

I hope that you, a man who tries to claim that New Invaders #6 is perfect portrayal of Namor in fight, aren't attempting to say that this fight isn't valid. 😄

Because it would be really, really ironic.

Originally posted by jinzin
He didn't eveade a killing blow.. If you failed to notice, Wolverine hit him in practically the exact same place as last time, which as Namor pointed out there were no vitals there....

A killing blow would have been for the throat or the face. Funny how the only time Wolverine ever hits namor in the head is when his claws are IN huh?

Namor said "Didnt you try to kill me?"
Wolverine said "Who you callling clumsy?" ie "Yeah I did but im too pissed to admit it so i'll settle for calling you ducklips instead."
What he didnt say was "I was just trying to injure you, you should count yourself lucky."

Namor didnt say there were no vitals there he said "You attempted to kill me!"

Another wonky thing about the Civil War fight: How could you conceivably stab someone in the chest 3-6 times and not at least puncture a lung or open a major vein/artery? Was wolvie aiming for the clavicles or something?