Here is the shot to the gut.
http://img507.imageshack.us/my.php?image=namorvswolvienew43et.jpg
Here is the shot to the gut.
http://img507.imageshack.us/my.php?image=namorvswolvienew43et.jpg
Originally posted by snoopdogg
Here is the shot to the gut.http://img507.imageshack.us/my.php?image=namorvswolvienew43et.jpg
oh... nevermind then.. 😮
Originally posted by snoopdoggseems like namor was just bout to get killed....
Here is the shot to the gut.http://img507.imageshack.us/my.php?image=namorvswolvienew43et.jpg
Originally posted by snoopdogg
Here is the shot to the gut.http://img507.imageshack.us/my.php?image=namorvswolvienew43et.jpg
That's exactly what I'm (and DC, and some other people... can't say it's just been me) talking about... Namor didn't even move, or try to dodge the shot. Hell, by the art, he MOVED HIS ARMS so Wovlerine could get a better shot at his chest. That fight was the equivalent of Wolverine beating a punching bag that talks s***.
That's why direct confrontation isn't always the best way to compare the two... Two characters almost NEVER use all of their abilities when fighting in comics.
In order to move around, Wolverine needs to touch the ground, where Namor can fly. In a completely by-the-definition plot device free environment, Namor wins because Wolverine is suspended in midair. He can't be falling, because then gravity's a plot device. 🙂 (getting too specific is a bit stupid... so while I agree that a tree or a car would be a plot device, stuff like the ground really shouldn't be. Otherwise stuff like gravity will have to be considered plot devices)
How has electricity been completely disregarded thus far? Has Wolverine ever shown the ability to withstand a great amount of it? It definitely is a Namor power.
Namor is hit by humans consistantly, yes. But he also dodges things that are MUCH faster consistantly. Both happen frequently, so which do we consider to be what "will" happen? That's the reason I only try to use higher end feats...
For example, were ANYTHING that happens a few times taken into account, anyone who can produce as much force as that elk should beat Wolverine a number of times, because he has CONSISTANTLY been hit by slow things, and knocked out by things much much weaker than Hulk. Anyone who argues isn't taking into account that his healing factor "might" be set to "crappy" for some of these fights.
The entire freaking point of the "Bloodlust" rule is that all chracters, in these fights, will ALWAYS fight to their potential. Namor has been hit by Cap and DD, but Namor has also hopped across a stream of meteors, dodged sonic waves, and caught missiles. Both happen consistantly. Wolverine takes shots from Hulk, Wolverine cuts 6 guys in the time it takes to say "cooperation". Wolverine also gets Koed by bullets, elk, and Daredevil. Again, both happen consistantly. Is one considered to be working in all of these fights, but not the other? To justify Wolverine easily hitting Namor some of the time, Wolverine would also have to be KOed by an elk level attack some of the time. Not all of the time, but say, 3/10?
This fight won't be anywhere near to easy for Namor, unless his electricity KOes Logan. Barring that, he consistantly DOES fly when he fights, (the "Cap got owned" fight) he DOES know Atlantean martial arts, he DOES move and react beyond mach speeds, and he CAN throw an object of Wolverine's weight for a very great distance, or rip out his guts. Wolverine can win with a full force stab, but truthfully, that's about it. It's actually been proven that anything less than that CAN'T hurt Namor. Which is why I still say Namor wins 8 or 9/10.
And what was that about "Namor's brain can't work faster than a human's"? Plenty of people have brains that work much faster than human brains in comics. Thought is only "nearly instant" because of the minute distance. But if no one's brain can be faster than a human's, how do you explain Flash? He doesn't run into buildings, but any person who can run as fast as him would. Within milliseconds. I really don't know what you were trying to say, can you please clarify? 😕
Oh yeah, and leaving Central Park doesn't mean one automatically loses by ring out. If it did, Namor would win with a kick. The two start in Central Park, but are not necessarily limited to Central Park.
And Ogun definitely is classified as 7 in speed because of teleportation. So is Thor. (for the most part... he can actually hit like 3C without teleporting, but that hasn't happened very often) Out of curiosity, how is Mantis rated? She's just above peak human speed in combat, (unless it's against the Runner... rofl) but she can also teleport across plants and stuff.
And THAT, friends, is an essay.
Originally posted by Dizzle✅
That's exactly what I'm (and DC, and some other people... can't say it's just been me) talking about... Namor didn't even move, or try to dodge the shot. Hell, by the art, he MOVED HIS ARMS so Wovlerine could get a better shot at his chest. That fight was the equivalent of Wolverine beating a punching bag that talks s***.
But watch, Jin's going to flip into Rantmode, and start saying that your standard of evidence is faulty, and that you have to take into consideration portrayals in comics according to his standard, or you're being subjective. 🙄
Originally posted by Dizzle
That's exactly what I'm (and DC, and some other people... can't say it's just been me) talking about... Namor didn't even move, or try to dodge the shot. Hell, by the art, he MOVED HIS ARMS so Wovlerine could get a better shot at his chest. That fight was the equivalent of Wolverine beating a punching bag that talks s***.That's why direct confrontation isn't always the best way to compare the two... Two characters almost NEVER use all of their abilities when fighting in comics.
In order to move around, Wolverine needs to touch the ground, where Namor can fly. In a completely by-the-definition plot device free environment, Namor wins because Wolverine is suspended in midair. He can't be falling, because then gravity's a plot device. 🙂 (getting too specific is a bit stupid... so while I agree that a tree or a car would be a plot device, stuff like the ground really shouldn't be. Otherwise stuff like gravity will have to be considered plot devices)
How has electricity been completely disregarded thus far? Has Wolverine ever shown the ability to withstand a great amount of it? It definitely is a Namor power.
Namor is hit by humans consistantly, yes. But he also dodges things that are MUCH faster consistantly. Both happen frequently, so which do we consider to be what "will" happen? That's the reason I only try to use higher end feats...
For example, were ANYTHING that happens a few times taken into account, anyone who can produce as much force as that elk should beat Wolverine a number of times, because he has CONSISTANTLY been hit by slow things, and knocked out by things much much weaker than Hulk. Anyone who argues isn't taking into account that his healing factor "might" be set to "crappy" for some of these fights.
The entire freaking point of the "Bloodlust" rule is that all chracters, in these fights, will ALWAYS fight to their potential. Namor has been hit by Cap and DD, but Namor has also hopped across a stream of meteors, dodged sonic waves, and caught missiles. Both happen consistantly. Wolverine takes shots from Hulk, Wolverine cuts 6 guys in the time it takes to say "cooperation". Wolverine also gets Koed by bullets, elk, and Daredevil. Again, both happen consistantly. Is one considered to be working in all of these fights, but not the other? To justify Wolverine easily hitting Namor some of the time, Wolverine would also have to be KOed by an elk level attack some of the time. Not all of the time, but say, 3/10?
This fight won't be anywhere near to easy for Namor, unless his electricity KOes Logan. Barring that, he consistantly DOES fly when he fights, (the "Cap got owned" fight) he DOES know Atlantean martial arts, he DOES move and react beyond mach speeds, and he CAN throw an object of Wolverine's weight for a very great distance, or rip out his guts. Wolverine can win with a full force stab, but truthfully, that's about it. It's actually been proven that anything less than that CAN'T hurt Namor. Which is why I still say Namor wins 8 or 9/10.
And what was that about "Namor's brain can't work faster than a human's"? Plenty of people have brains that work much faster than human brains in comics. How about Flash? He doesn't run into buildings, but any person who can run as fast as him would. Within milliseconds. I really don't know what you were trying to say, can you please clarify? 😕
Oh yeah, and leaving Central Park doesn't mean one automatically loses by ring out. If it did, Namor would win with a kick. The two start in Central Park, but are not necessarily limited to Central Park.
And THAT, friends, is an essay.
😮 i think i have a crush........................
Originally posted by Dizzle
That's exactly what I'm (and DC, and some other people... can't say it's just been me) talking about... Namor didn't even move, or try to dodge the shot. Hell, by the art, he MOVED HIS ARMS so Wovlerine could get a better shot at his chest. That fight was the equivalent of Wolverine beating a punching bag that talks s***.That's why direct confrontation isn't always the best way to compare the two... Two characters almost NEVER use all of their abilities when fighting in comics.
In order to move around, Wolverine needs to touch the ground, where Namor can fly. In a completely by-the-definition plot device free environment, Namor wins because Wolverine is suspended in midair. He can't be falling, because then gravity's a plot device. 🙂 (getting too specific is a bit stupid... so while I agree that a tree or a car would be a plot device, stuff like the ground really shouldn't be. Otherwise stuff like gravity will have to be considered plot devices)
How has electricity been completely disregarded thus far? Has Wolverine ever shown the ability to withstand a great amount of it? It definitely is a Namor power.
Namor is hit by humans consistantly, yes. But he also dodges things that are MUCH faster consistantly. Both happen frequently, so which do we consider to be what "will" happen? That's the reason I only try to use higher end feats...
For example, were ANYTHING that happens a few times taken into account, anyone who can produce as much force as that elk should beat Wolverine a number of times, because he has CONSISTANTLY been hit by slow things, and knocked out by things much much weaker than Hulk. Anyone who argues isn't taking into account that his healing factor "might" be set to "crappy" for some of these fights.
The entire freaking point of the "Bloodlust" rule is that all chracters, in these fights, will ALWAYS fight to their potential. Namor has been hit by Cap and DD, but Namor has also hopped across a stream of meteors, dodged sonic waves, and caught missiles. Both happen consistantly. Wolverine takes shots from Hulk, Wolverine cuts 6 guys in the time it takes to say "cooperation". Wolverine also gets Koed by bullets, elk, and Daredevil. Again, both happen consistantly. Is one considered to be working in all of these fights, but not the other? To justify Wolverine easily hitting Namor some of the time, Wolverine would also have to be KOed by an elk level attack some of the time. Not all of the time, but say, 3/10?
This fight won't be anywhere near to easy for Namor, unless his electricity KOes Logan. Barring that, he consistantly DOES fly when he fights, (the "Cap got owned" fight) he DOES know Atlantean martial arts, he DOES move and react beyond mach speeds, and he CAN throw an object of Wolverine's weight for a very great distance, or rip out his guts. Wolverine can win with a full force stab, but truthfully, that's about it. It's actually been proven that anything less than that CAN'T hurt Namor. Which is why I still say Namor wins 8 or 9/10.
And what was that about "Namor's brain can't work faster than a human's"? Plenty of people have brains that work much faster than human brains in comics. Thought is only "nearly instant" because of the minute distance. But if no one's brain can be faster than a human's, how do you explain Flash? He doesn't run into buildings, but any person who can run as fast as him would. Within milliseconds. I really don't know what you were trying to say, can you please clarify? 😕
Oh yeah, and leaving Central Park doesn't mean one automatically loses by ring out. If it did, Namor would win with a kick. The two start in Central Park, but are not necessarily limited to Central Park.
And Ogun definitely is classified as 7 in speed because of teleportation. So is Thor. (for the most part... he can actually hit like 3C without teleporting, but that hasn't happened very often) Out of curiosity, how is Mantis rated? She's just above peak human speed in combat, (unless it's against the Runner... rofl) but she can also teleport across plants and stuff.
And THAT, friends, is an essay.
🤘
Originally posted by leonidas
ya know, this forum is no pis/cis, but that does NOT mean that a character gets to fight in a way that he/she has never fought before.you are describing a namor that has never fought a battle in that way before. it has been shown consistently that wolvie can hit him, cap can hit him, ironfist can hit him. all pis? 😑
it has been shown consistently wolvie can take hulk punches, wendigo punches, abomination, wrecker . . . all pis? 😑
Actually, the forum is no PIS. CIS isn't generally frowned upon, because it's dependant on the character. And, it's interesting that all your examples are all in in Wolverine's favor (Wolverine can hit Namor; Wolverine can take Namor's blows). You're not exactly appearing to be impartial.
Originally posted by leonidas
if your answer is yes, then that is all you really have to fall back on. all your evidence amassed means very little in light of that. basically you're saying the character (wolvie) is ridiculous/stupid/overrated, despite having been SHOWN numerous times proof of the consistent nature of his abilities. so why continue to debate? it's why i don't tend to take part in wolvie debates . . .
Originally posted by leonidas
and yes, jinzin, if he stabbed namor in the face (if namor stood there and let him hit him) he WOULD win the fight. claws through eyes into brain WOULD kill namor.i only chime in because i don't think you ever DID get your answer . . .
Secondly, it's not clear that he could get through his skull. He'd cut his face pretty badly, but more likely than not, no further damage. For your information, yes, your skull does extend behind your eyeballs. And, yes, bone tissue is much more resilient than skin. For example, he slashed him across the abdomen in one of DarkCrawler's scans, but didn't puncture his lungs, because his attack didn't penetrate his ribs.
Originally posted by Melnorme
We've also shown that Wolverine can get laid out by dumbells and elk. Is all of that PIS? Should this information merely be discounted in favor of Wolverine?
guess you missed the whole bit about consistency...
Originally posted by Melnorme
Secondly, it's not clear that he could get through his skull. He'd cut his face pretty badly, but more likely than not, no further damage. For your information, yes, your skull does extend behind your eyeballs. And, yes, bone tissue is much more resilient than skin.
Originally posted by Melnormemore often than he's stood up to equal or stronger attacks? like?
Not at all. Wolverine has consistantly been laid low by attacks much weaker than Namor's.
Originally posted by Melnorme
Straw man...thy name is Jinzin! 😆
no seriously.. you want to make the claim that you don't think he can puncture namor's skeleton that's fine.. but what drew you to that conclussion?
Originally posted by jinzin
more often than he's stood up to equal or stronger attacks? like?no seriously.. you want to make the claim that you don't think he can puncture namor's skeleton that's fine.. but what drew you to that conclussion?
The fact that the stomache/intestines have no bones in 'em.
Originally posted by jinzinSorry jinny... still doesn't really do it for me. These features are intrinsic to the scene in which the fight is occuring. If every individual element that would naturally be in the environment is a plot device simply because they are introduced into the fight by the threadstarter setting an environment, then one must argue that entire environments in themselves are plot devices.
fine i can admit that.. but you have to admit that the building is infact a plot device... it's a plot device by definition man..
Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Sorry jinny... still doesn't really do it for me. These features are intrinsic to the scene in which the fight is occuring. If every individual element that would naturally be in the environment is a plot device simply because they are introduced into the fight by the threadstarter setting an environment, then one must argue that entire environments in themselves are plot devices.
they are only really introduced into the fight by the fighters though...
the only acception to this is the ground.. but if the ground is used to suffocate logan.. well..... viola..plot device.
Originally posted by jinzin
guess you missed the whole bit about consistency...unclear? is he more durable than hulk now? 🤨
Someone missed half my essay... Wovlerine has been KOed many times. If Namor getting hit by him on two occasions is enough to validate Wolverine ALWAYS being able to hit him, how is Wolverine getting KOed by much less than Namor more than that invalid, at least for a percentage of the fights?
Namor takes 8/10. 2, Namor fights stupid and gets gutted easily. 3, he thinks to use electricity. 2 he uses plot devices and buries Wolverine. (I've seen him uproot trees many a time. And there's a LOT of trees in Central Park. It's part of the scenario, and therefore feasible) For the last two, 2 he casually flicks Logan, whos healing factor is on the fritz, because it happens occasionally in comics. Do you see the problems here? (this is an example, not a serious freaking argument, god dammit)
Originally posted by jinzin
no seriously.. you want to make the claim that you don't think he can puncture namor's skeleton that's fine.. but what drew you to that conclussion?
I'm not entirely convinced that even this is possible, because as we can see from that one confrontation from the "good ole days" of comics, when the writers actually knew their characters, Wolverine didn't appear to do much with a full-on belly slash. But, I'll give the benefit of the doubt, and assume that you're correct and that Wolverine would be able to pierce his skin.
However, piercing bone is still a difficulty on a different order of magnitude.
