Namor, The Sub-Mariner vs Wolverine

Started by xmarksthespot163 pages

Originally posted by jinzin
they are only really introduced into the fight by the fighters though...

the only acception to this is the ground.. but if the ground is used to suffocate logan.. well..... viola..plot device.

They're introduced by the threadstarter in the setting of the environment. If I say "fight on an island" palm trees, coconuts, sand etc aren't plot devices - they are environment. If I say set in NYC cars, buildings, lamp posts etc aren't plot devices, they are environment. They are natural and intrinsic to these environments. They aren't introduced into the scenario specifically to advance anything.

If fighting in New York, Magneto throwing cars magnetically is not plot device.

Originally posted by jinzin
they are only really introduced into the fight by the fighters though...

the only acception to this is the ground.. but if the ground is used to suffocate logan.. well..... viola..plot device.

Namor throws Logan straight up. Logan goes up for a few miles, then falls and dies by burning up due to air friction. Is gravity a plot device? Is air friction? Were there no gravity, Wolverine would survive the throw. Therefore it must be.

Even better, Wolverine runs five steps forward and kills a guy. Without the ground or gravity, he would not be able to. Are both plot devices?

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
If fighting in New York, Magneto throwing cars magnetically is not plot device.

That's an excellent point. By Jin's standard, "classic" Magneto (you know...before he could split atoms by concentrating hard) wouldn't have been able to win anything except by plot device.

Boo! Down with Jinzin's measure of what makes a plot device! 😠

Originally posted by Dizzle
Namor throws Logan straight up. Logan goes up for a few miles, then falls and dies by burning up due to air friction. Is gravity a plot device? Is air friction? Were there no gravity, Wolverine would survive the throw. Therefore it must be.
See this is what is confusing me... it seems like this fight has to be fought in pure white anacoustic room which is also a complete vacuum before it's plot device free...

Originally posted by Melnorme
That's an excellent point. By Jin's standard, "classic" Magneto (you know...before he could split atoms by concentrating hard) wouldn't have been able to win anything except by plot device.

Boo! Down with Jinzin's measure of what makes a plot device! 😠

Magma and Storm could only ever win by using "plot device" as well...

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
See this is what is confusing me... it seems like this fight has to be fought in pure white anacoustic room which is also a complete vacuum before it's plot device free...

I think, according to Jinzin, that they would need to be in freefall to be plot device free, as the ground could be "technically" considered a plot device. 😆

Originally posted by Melnorme
I think, according to Jinzin, that they would need to be in freefall to be plot device free, as the ground could be "technically" considered a plot device. 😆

No, if they're falling, there's gravity involved. Don't want one to gain an unfair advantage because of gravity. Vacuums work much better. Good call X. 😉

Originally posted by Dizzle
No, if they're falling, there's gravity involved. Don't want one to gain an unfair advantage because of gravity. Vacuums work much better. Good call X. 😉

Trying to imagine this scene is making my brain hurt. 😕

Originally posted by Dizzle
No, if they're falling, there's gravity involved. Don't want one to gain an unfair advantage because of gravity. Vacuums work much better. Good call X. 😉
wolverine lasts longer....

Originally posted by King KAM
wolverine lasts longer....

Yeah, well...you would know! 😆

Originally posted by Melnorme
Yeah, well...you would know! 😆
nah i was just watchin the porn tape, where you did both of them at the same time...

I'm not sure whether I should be flattered or completely freaked out that you're conjuring a mental image of me in a three-way with Wolverine and Namor. I'm going to go with choice "B".

Originally posted by King KAM
wolverine lasts longer....

Actually... If you wanna get technical... I'm pretty sure Namor can both hold his breath longer than Wolverine AND survive in a vacuum.

Namor wins without plot devices!!!

Originally posted by King KAM
nah i was just watchin the porn tape, where you did both of them at the same time...
😖... why?

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
😖... why?
i think mel is hot?

Thanks, but...still freaking me out.

Originally posted by Melnorme
Thanks, but...still freaking me out.
.....think you can learn to love me?

Are you rich?

Originally posted by Dizzle
Someone missed half my essay...

nope but when I'm arguing in several threads against some pretty long and drawn out debates it tends catch up.. I can't catch everything... especially even longer and more drawn out essays like the one you wrote...

Originally posted by Dizzle
Wovlerine has been KOed many times.

yes he has.. but namor hasn't been one to do it.. infact vs. namor wolverine has 100% consistency of NOT getting KOed whether namor's used plot devices or not...

so you argue that he's been KOed.. and again he has, that's fine.. but the mojority of him getting KOed have been by things that have been around or above the level of what a land-based namor dishes out...
so giving him the benefit of the doubt to say that he can easily get a KO here is kind of absurd...

Originally posted by Dizzle
If Namor getting hit by him on two occasions is enough to validate Wolverine ALWAYS being able to hit him, how is Wolverine getting KOed by much less than Namor more than that invalid, at least for a percentage of the fights?.

okay I'm not entriely sue you worded that right.. but I think I understand what you're trying to say.. that if wolverine hitting namor on two occasions is credible to validate something.. why not wolverine getting KOed by lesser force right?

it's simple.. wolverine isn't as one demensional as applied force... the argument that namor can dodge faster things than wolverine thus he can dodge wolverine isn't an accurate one because wolverine has other qualities that vary him a good deal from that of the things namor has dodged and the occurances have varried situationally as well... and once again.. if namor has 100% consistency NOT dodging wolverine then there's not much to say that he can...

applied force is different... "if a two ton lifter can knock wolverine out surely a 3 ton lifter can".. this isn't accurate when the majority of the time wolverine's been able to not get KOed by much greater force than either... if there are other aspect to disscuss about the matter then lets discuss them.

Originally posted by Dizzle
Namor takes 8/10. 2, Namor fights stupid and gets gutted easily. 3, he thinks to use electricity. 2 he uses plot devices and buries Wolverine. (I've seen him uproot trees many a time. And there's a LOT of trees in Central Park. It's part of the scenario, and therefore feasible) For the last two, 2 he casually flicks Logan, whos healing factor is on the fritz, because it happens occasionally in comics. Do you see the problems here? (this is an example, not a serious freaking argument, god dammit)

how much electricity does namor generate? as much as a storm lightning bolt? as much as a swordsmen one? more? how often does he use it?

I've already admitted that wolverine's obviously at a serious disadvantage vs. namor and a plot device..

as for logan's healing factor.. it's contingent on what happens in his daily routine... you could make that argument sure.. but that's using wolverine who's been seriously disadvantaged...

namor wasn't disadvantaged in any similar way so the comparison is moot... he just lost plain and simple...

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
They're introduced by the threadstarter in the setting of the environment. If I say "fight on an island" palm trees, coconuts, sand etc aren't plot devices - they are environment. If I say set in NYC cars, buildings, lamp posts etc aren't plot devices, they are environment. They are natural and intrinsic to these environments. They aren't introduced into the scenario specifically to advance anything.

If fighting in New York, Magneto throwing cars magnetically is not plot device.

environment used as a weapon IS a plot device...