Originally posted by Joey StacksWhen has Gokou ever shown to be stronger than what he was at the start of the Buu saga. And why does everybody use comic relief...Sure lets take feats like Tao Pai Pai throwing something from a series that was more comedy and say that the feat from the more serious part is wrong when it's actually done by Gokou himself and not somebody else.
Lol @ Creshosk.Your argument in a nutshell and why it's unreadable drivel.
"Goku's BASE 40 ton lifting strength is his be all end all cap despite it going against years of character history.
even though it's shown he's easily higher then that anyway.
Oh and ignore Superman's low showings, they're cool and perfectly acceptable. Different writers.
Our explanation contradicted on-panel evidence
dur, it's shown Goku is easily able to handle 40 tons past base and stated in the official Daizenshuu power levels that his SSJ form gives a 500x increase in power.
I'm not going to prove Superman can bust a planet, such evidence doesn't exist so I'll call it your opinion.
Superman's experience plays a HUGE factor in determining who's a better MA, this is why he's a better martial artist then Val Armorr, who only has about 19 years of combat experience.
IMO Goku's a unintelligent fighter, despite being called a genius on multiple occasions by multiple fighters.
On panel evidence Maxima is only comparable to Goku at Goku's very weakest state"
😂
Sure lets use Superman being hurt by a gas station being blown up even though he has a lot more feats saying that he could easily survive that with no problem at all.
Do you have the Daizenshu?? Prove this is said in it.
Creshok didn't say anything about Superman destroying a planet I did so there was no need for that to be said in that.
On panel evidence Gokou isn't anywhere near Superman physically nor is he as fast or as durable or as anything except better with the one thing Superman doesn't have. Ki beams.
Originally posted by Joey StacksCyborg Superman is physically on par with Superman something Gokou has yet to shown to be. Wow just because Cyborg Superman can do something suddenly means Gokou can do the same thing.
[QUOTE=9727641]Originally posted by KentoYep and Superman getting KTFO by Cyborg Superman happened many years after lol he took Imperiex's galaxy busting attack with a smile.
Gtfohhhhhhhhhhhhh
Oh, so any Superman showing not written by Siegel is invalid? Since none of the other guys "know his character."
Toriyama doesn't just think of specifics like this when he writes and doesn't care as much about minor details (like Goku's lifting strength) as American writers, he just puts out random numbers. For all we know, the 40 tons was just to show that Base Goku is a joke to Super Saiyan Goku. Who handled it easily and doesn't have a gauged limit to his strength. Based on Daizenshuu he's actually 500x's stronger then Base Goku, which puts SSJ1 Goku's strength around 20,000 tons, if you put another 500 on it that's 10,000,000 tons, put another 500 and you've just proven that at a relative low showing that goes against Goku's established character, at SSJ3 Goku is at 5,000,000,000 tons. Pretty good considering Superman's been hurt physically by people who have shown to be much weaker then this (LIKE WONDER MAN LOL).
When?
He was already stronger then KB during the Buu Saga, he stated he held back and could have killed Buu but wanted Veggie face to get a crack at him.
No people who write Superman do what they want with the character not really paying attention to what everybody else does and makes him as strong as they want. Gokou on the other hand was written by one person and I'm sure he would know what Gokou can or cannot do better than anybody else. And where is this thing that supposedly says ssj goes up by 50x's? Also even if that is right..he is still inferior to Superman's strength by a few billion. Also who has beat him that is weaker than that?
He's also been shown to destroy the world with his heat vision. Not destroy the planet as in it won't be there anymore but make in uninhabitable. Heat Vision is energy projection.
SSJ3 Gokou was not stronger than Kid Buu. He was trying to beat him he wasn't going to let Vegeta fight at all. He didn't have more power at all.
Originally posted by Kento
[B]When has Gokou ever shown to be stronger than what he was at the start of the Buu saga. And why does everybody use comic relief...Sure lets take feats like Tao Pai Pai throwing something from a series that was more comedy and say that the feat from the more serious part is wrong when it's actually done by Gokou himself and not somebody else.
Yeah and let's focus on the 40 tons and ignore the fact that stuff IN THE VERY SAME SAGA contradicts this limit. Like said AT doesn't think about or care about this stupid shit (especially during Buu saga, which was basically him just making a bunch of random ideas on the fly up for $$$ profit), and AT is the type that will call us lame for even arguing about this shit and would be the first to admit that some fans do know more about the manga then he does. That's why you take AVERAGES son, on AVERAGE Goku is more then strong enough to hurt Superman.
Sure lets use Superman being hurt by a gas station being blown up even though he has a lot more feats saying that he could easily survive that with no problem at all.
I never said that Superman would get taken out by gas stations. Read the argument in my first post I even say Superman's durability is > Goku's. I was using it as an example of the extremes certain fans will go to prove a point. Let's ignore issues upon issues of comics and focus on 3 or 4 particular high showings. That shit doesn't fly son, that shit is stupid son. I could easily bring up a certain sidekick beating the TAR out of Superman as proof of him getting his ass kicked by Goku, but that shit's stupid as it's only a lower end showing.
Do you have the Daizenshu?? Prove this is said in it.
Google it, Goku's KKx10 form vs. Frieza is said to be 3,000,000 (meaning 300,000 base) while his SSJ form is said to be 150,000,000. 500x increase from base to SSJ.
Creshok didn't say anything about Superman destroying a planet I did so there was no need for that to be said in that.
Creshok quoted me saying that it was my opinion that Superman couldn't bust a planet, if he was defending you with the argument "your opinion" he deserved every bit of ire.
On panel evidence Gokou isn't anywhere near Superman physically
On panel evidence Wonder Woman isn't anywhere near Superman physically, didn't stop her from almost decapitating him. On panel evidence, one doesn't need to be as strong as Superman to beat him.
nor is he as fast
Doesn't matter, Goku's much more adept at high speed fighting then Superman. He might actually get the drop on Superman as he adjusts.
Cyborg Superman is physically on par with Superman
What has Cyborg Superman done to show he is physically on par with Superman?
Wow just because Cyborg Superman can do something suddenly means Gokou can do the same thing.
Cyborg Superman, has he even shown to be a planet buster? Goku was
at the beginning of Z.
No people who write Superman do what they want with the character not really paying attention to what everybody else does and makes him as strong as they want.
Much like how AT does whatever he wants with the character and doesn't pay attention to stuff as trivial as consistant lifting strength portrayal (which is why DB power levels are so wonky). AT drew Goku with the intent of him being able to do ANYTHING (why do you think Saiyans are said to have unlimited potential for growth). He's more concerned with telling a good story then Goku's bench press strength.
This is why you have Vegeta casaully walking in 300x's Earth gravity (much more weight, pressure and strain then 40 tons) in his base form yet in the next chapter Goku struggles with 40 (base only, as it's shown in your face 40 tons is nothing to him if he powers up to his weakest transformation level). AT didn't give a shit about anything other then entertaining the reader (unlike most American writers where consistency of power is expected instead of just telling a great story).
This is why you go by AVERAGES and on AVERAGE the level of destruction caused by Z characters and the way they fight are all reminiscent of Hulk level fights.
He's also been shown to destroy the world with his heat vision. Not destroy the planet as in it won't be there anymore but make in uninhabitable. Heat Vision is energy projection.
Oh so he doesn't possess the raw power to blow away a planet. Cool, Goku wins.
SSJ3 Gokou was not stronger than Kid Buu. He was trying to beat him he wasn't going to let Vegeta fight at all. He didn't have more power at all.
Are you kidding? Goku gave Vegeta a whole lecture about it and Vegeta was pissed off about this during his whole last scuffle with Kid Buu.
Goku even remarks that his power is going down as he's recharging and not up to the level where it was.