Originally posted by Joey Stacks
Hell since we're going based on creators (and to show how carefree AT is about certain things) in AT's May 2005 (?) Wizard Magazine interview about Blue Dragon he's asked which of all his creations ever would win in a fighthis answer?
Goku, he could smash a planet lol
Toryama created Superman?
Originally posted by superkronick92
Toryama created Superman?
Nah, it was pointing out that Toriyama's writing is more akin to pre-crisis in that there wasn't a limit to what a character could do and it was all based on good storytelling with minor detail towards (somewhat) irrelevant consistancies.
He's asked which character would win out of all he's created
and the character from the series he answers isn't even the most powerful in the series.
Hence the best way to gauge strength is going by average
in one case you could argue Goku's strength greatly dwarfs Superman
and vice versa based on story driven writing.
Originally posted by Joey StacksLike what?
Yeah and let's focus on the 40 tons and ignore the fact that stuff IN THE VERY SAME SAGA contradicts this limit.
Originally posted by Joey StacksUn proven since the highest stated on panel as to the actual weight value he was lifting... is 40 tons.
Like said AT doesn't think about or care about this stupid shit (especially during Buu saga, which was basically him just making a bunch of random ideas on the fly up for $$$ profit), and AT is the type that will call us lame for even arguing about this shit and would be the first to admit that some fans do know more about the manga then he does. That's why you take AVERAGES son, on AVERAGE Goku is more then strong enough to hurt Superman.
Originally posted by Joey StacksIf this is such a low showing, how about giving concrete proof of him lifting something higher?
Sure lets use Superman being hurt by a gas station being blown up even though he has a lot more feats saying that he could easily survive that with no problem at all.I never said that Superman would get taken out by gas stations. Read the argument in my first post I even say Superman's durability is > Goku's. I was using it as an example of the extremes certain fans will go to prove a point. Let's ignore issues upon issues of comics and focus on 3 or 4 particular high showings. That shit doesn't fly son, that shit is stupid son. I could easily bring up a certain sidekick beating the TAR out of Superman as proof of him getting his ass kicked by Goku, but that shit's stupid as it's only a lower end showing.
Originally posted by Joey StacksOh wow, more power levels which don't translate into anything other than ki levels.
Do you have the Daizenshu?? Prove this is said in it.Google it, Goku's KKx10 form vs. Frieza is said to be 3,000,000 (meaning 300,000 base) while his SSJ form is said to be 150,000,000. 500x increase from base to SSJ.
Superman would probably read really low, since he doesn't use ki, does that mean he's weak?
Originally posted by Joey StacksOh yes, I really deserved to be called all those names and cursed at.
Creshok didn't say anything about Superman destroying a planet I did so there was no need for that to be said in that.Creshok quoted me saying that it was my opinion that Superman couldn't bust a planet, if he was defending you with the argument "your opinion" he deserved every bit of ire.
Originally posted by Joey StacksRight, the panel evidence doesn't agree with me, therefore its irrelivant. 🙄
On panel evidence Gokou isn't anywhere near Superman physicallyOn panel evidence Wonder Woman isn't anywhere near Superman physically, didn't stop her from almost decapitating him. On panel evidence, one doesn't need to be as strong as Superman to beat him.
Originally posted by Joey StacksEquivocation, which is also ignoring on panel evidence. Congratulations, your ignorance matchs the typical dbz fanboy.
nor is he as fastDoesn't matter, Goku's much more adept at high speed fighting then Superman. He might actually get the drop on Superman as he adjusts.
Originally posted by Joey StacksNo he wasn't.
Cyborg Superman is physically on par with SupermanWhat has Cyborg Superman done to show he is physically on par with Superman?
Wow just because Cyborg Superman can do something suddenly means Gokou can do the same thing.
Cyborg Superman, has he even shown to be a planet buster? Goku was
at the beginning of Z.
Originally posted by Joey StacksSounds like a sorry excuse for "I don't have nay evidence to prove he's higher, but he is with out evidence!"
No people who write Superman do what they want with the character not really paying attention to what everybody else does and makes him as strong as they want.Much like how AT does whatever he wants with the character and doesn't pay attention to stuff as trivial as consistant lifting strength portrayal (which is why DB power levels are so wonky). AT drew Goku with the intent of him being able to do ANYTHING (why do you think Saiyans are said to have unlimited potential for growth). He's more concerned with telling a good story then Goku's bench press strength.
Originally posted by Joey StacksGot any proof that it was greater than 40 tons?
This is why you have Vegeta casaully walking in 300x's Earth gravity (much more weight, pressure and strain then 40 tons)
Originally posted by Joey Stacks10 tons.
in his base form yet in the next chapter Goku struggles with 40 (base only,
Originally posted by Joey Stacksand its still not that high a feat.
as it's shown in your face 40 tons is nothing to him if he powers up to his weakest transformation level). AT didn't give a shit about anything other then entertaining the reader (unlike most American writers where consistency of power is expected instead of just telling a great story).
Originally posted by Joey StacksYes Hulk at base > Superman
This is why you go by AVERAGES and on AVERAGE the level of destruction caused by Z characters and the way they fight are all reminiscent of Hulk level fights.
Cause we know numbers with smaller values are greater than numbers with higher values.
Originally posted by Joey Stacks
He's also been shown to destroy the world with his heat vision. Not destroy the planet as in it won't be there anymore but make in uninhabitable. Heat Vision is energy projection.Oh so he doesn't possess the raw power to blow away a planet. Cool, Goku wins.
Nice...
Originally posted by Joey StacksHe was pissed about goku not going ssj3 during the fight where he was Majin...
SSJ3 Gokou was not stronger than Kid Buu. He was trying to beat him he wasn't going to let Vegeta fight at all. He didn't have more power at all.Are you kidding? Goku gave Vegeta a whole lecture about it and Vegeta was pissed off about this during his whole last scuffle with Kid Buu.[/]b
Originally posted by Joey StacksSure... have you read the manga?
[B]Goku even remarks that his power is going down as he's recharging and not up to the level where it was.
Originally posted by Joey StacksWell duh we know that creators are biased toward their creations. But you even said that he wouldn't know as much about his manga as the nitpicky fans.
Hell since we're going based on creators (and to show how carefree AT is about certain things) in AT's May 2005 (?) Wizard Magazine interview about Blue Dragon he's asked which of all his creations ever would win in a fighthis answer?
Goku, he could smash a planet lol
Originally posted by Joey StacksYes, because the creator of one character saying his is the best is concrete evidence... Have you looked at the boards where people make their own characters?
Nah, it was pointing out that Toriyama's writing is more akin to pre-crisis in that there wasn't a limit to what a character could do and it was all based on good storytelling with minor detail towards (somewhat) irrelevant consistancies.He's asked which character would win out of all he's created
and the character from the series he answers isn't even the most powerful in the series.
Hence the best way to gauge strength is going by average
in one case you could argue Goku's strength greatly dwarfs Superman
and vice versa based on story driven writing.
Originally posted by Joey Stacks
There is no "DBZ" manga. But I have read plenty of Dragonball as well as DC.🙂
Originally posted by Joey StacksNo, So I guess your problems are reading comprehension problems.
I'm sorry Creshosk did you just say that Akira Toryiama really named his manga Dragonball Z when he printed it as Dragon Ball?
Clearly you don't understand the words written before you. I guess that makes you barely literate. Which would make it hard for you to understand the complex words in the DC comics. which explains your "blurry lines means they're moving faster" argument.
Originally posted by Creshosk
No, So I guess your problems are reading comprehension problems.Clearly you don't understand the words written before you. I guess that makes you barely literate. Which would make it hard for you to understand the complex words in the DC comics. which explains your "blurry lines means they're moving faster" argument.
And what's in front of you is the original copy of the "Dragon Ball Z manga" you are flaunting.
Where's the Z?
Where's the Z?
Where's the Z?
Where's the Z?
Oh wait, there is no Japanese term for Z, silly me.
Where's the Zeta?
Where's the Zeta?
Where's the Zeta?
Where's the Zeta?
You really shouldn't diss yourself, it's unhealthy.
BTW who said "blurry lines means they're moving faster?"
I think you're confusing my argument with your mythical, Superman will speedblitz at lightspeed based on the fact that he doesn't really do it that much, if ever, and I have no other way for him to win, mess.
Originally posted by Joey StacksGokou on the norm has shown strength to be stronger than Superman? Gokou has no strength feats that put him over 100 tons so no he doesn't average being able to hurt Superman.
Yeah and let's focus on the 40 tons and ignore the fact that stuff IN THE VERY SAME SAGA contradicts this limit. Like said AT doesn't think about or care about this stupid shit (especially during Buu saga, which was basically him just making a bunch of random ideas on the fly up for $$$ profit), and AT is the type that will call us lame for even arguing about this shit and would be the first to admit that some fans do know more about the manga then he does. That's why you take AVERAGES son, on AVERAGE Goku is more then strong enough to hurt Superman.I never said that Superman would get taken out by gas stations. Read the argument in my first post I even say Superman's durability is > Goku's. I was using it as an example of the extremes certain fans will go to prove a point. Let's ignore issues upon issues of comics and focus on 3 or 4 particular high showings. That shit doesn't fly son, that shit is stupid son. I could easily bring up a certain sidekick beating the TAR out of Superman as proof of him getting his ass kicked by Goku, but that shit's stupid as it's only a lower end showing.
On panel evidence Wonder Woman isn't anywhere near Superman physically, didn't stop her from almost decapitating him. On panel evidence, one doesn't need to be as strong as Superman to beat him.
Doesn't matter, Goku's much more adept at high speed fighting then Superman. He might actually get the drop on Superman as he adjusts.
What has Cyborg Superman done to show he is physically on par with Superman?
Cyborg Superman, has he even shown to be a planet buster? Goku was
at the beginning of Z.
Much like how AT does whatever he wants with the character and doesn't pay attention to stuff as trivial as consistant lifting strength portrayal (which is why DB power levels are so wonky). AT drew Goku with the intent of him being able to do ANYTHING (why do you think Saiyans are said to have unlimited potential for growth). He's more concerned with telling a good story then Goku's bench press strength.
This is why you have Vegeta casaully walking in 300x's Earth gravity (much more weight, pressure and strain then 40 tons) in his base form yet in the next chapter Goku struggles with 40 (base only, as it's shown in your face 40 tons is nothing to him if he powers up to his weakest transformation level). AT didn't give a shit about anything other then entertaining the reader (unlike most American writers where consistency of power is expected instead of just telling a great story).
This is why you go by AVERAGES and on AVERAGE the level of destruction caused by Z characters and the way they fight are all reminiscent of Hulk level fights.
Are you kidding? Goku gave Vegeta a whole lecture about it and Vegeta was pissed off about this during his whole last scuffle with Kid Buu.
Goku even remarks that his power is going down as he's recharging and not up to the level where it was.
3 or 4 high showings? There are more showings than 4 that proves Superman is faster and stronger and durable enough to take what Gokou can dish out.
So the fact that Wonder Woman has feats that put her on Superman's level means absolutely nothing nor that she uses magic stuff also means nothing. Same with Cyborg.
Gokou couldn't bust a planet at the beginning. He wasn't even said to have it until Cell Games.
Vegeta never went around in 300x Earth gravity either. The highest I've ever seen in the manga is 100x's Earth Gravity.
Nothing Gokou has done in his fights even comes close to what Hulk has done either. And Superman is leagues above Hulk in strength anyways at Hulk's base level.
Also he was trying to kill Kid Buu and wasn't planning on letting Vegeta fight. He tells Vegeta he can't get his full power to finish the fight, which isn't true to begin with either since they constantly underestimate Kid Buu and Kid Buu wasn't even trying.
Originally posted by Joey StacksYou're still failing
And what's in front of you is the original copy of the "Dragon Ball Z manga" you are flaunting.Where's the Z?
Next thing you're going to tell me that zheshengui doesn't exist.
Originally posted by Joey StacksSee there's that reading comprehension problem again man.. you need to go back to school as you obviously are barely literate.
You really shouldn't diss yourself, it's unhealthy.BTW who said "blurry lines means they're moving faster?"
I think you're confusing my argument with your mythical, Superman will speedblitz at lightspeed based on the fact that he doesn't really do it that much, if ever, and I have no other way for him to win, mess.
Originally posted by Kento
Gokou on the norm has shown strength to be stronger than Superman? Gokou has no strength feats that put him over 100 tons so no he doesn't average being able to hurt Superman.
I never said he's stronger then Superman, I even gave Superman the double greater then sign, just that he's strong enough to make Superman feel pain when he hits.
3 or 4 high showings? There are more showings than 4 that proves Superman is faster and stronger and durable enough to take what Gokou can dish out.
There isn't any showing that proves Superman is faster at travelling or fight speed as Goku is capable of instantaneous movement and has moved so fast that people like Gohan and Baata thought he was standing still (when has Superman done that to speedsters of that calibur). Generally speaking Goku is just better at speed then Superman as speed is a BIG part of his repitroire. Since he was 14, if you weren't a peer speed wise, you weren't tagging Goku. Unlike Superman who gets hit by snails all the time.
So the fact that Wonder Woman has feats that put her on Superman's level means absolutely nothing
Wonder Woman has strength feats that match Superman's absolute best?
Same with Cyborg.
Cyborg has strength feats that match Superman's absolute best?
Gokou couldn't bust a planet at the beginning.
Since the Saiyan saga Goku has said to be strong enough to bust a planet (by Vegeta).
He wasn't even said to have it until Cell Games.
Freeza destroyed a planet with 10x's the mass of Earth (Vegeta), in his first form.
Vegeta never went around in 300x Earth gravity either.
Yeah he did, he was training in 300 during the Buu saga with Trunks and asked Briefs for 300 at the end of the Frieza saga (he wanted to up Goku by 3)
Nothing Gokou has done in his fights even comes close to what Hulk has done either.
Um yeah, he was a certified city leveler at the start of the Piccolo Daimou saga. In the Frieza saga Vegeta and Zarbon were creating new rivers from the collateral damage of their fights.
Also he was trying to kill Kid Buu and wasn't planning on letting Vegeta fight.
Dude he tells Vegeta he allowed himself to get worn down a bit so Vegeta could get a shot at Buu, that's why he asks for Vegeta to allow him some time to heal back up. Not because he was weaker then Buu all along.