Superman vs Goku (Official Thread)

Originally posted by Vvendeta
ON THE SUBJECT OF SPEED, THIS IS AN OFICCIAL INTERVIEW I FOUND IN MFG FORUMS, A WELL RESPECTED AN NO BIAS DRAGONBALL SITE, THEY CONFIRM THIS INTERVIEW AS REAL AN TORIYAMA IS STATING THE SPEED OF DBZ AS LIGHT SPEED, (Excuse me for the capital letters but that is to make a difference of what I am saying an the interview) THE INTERVIEW IS MADE IN THE MIDDLE OF BUU SAGA.

Akira Toriyama Interview by Nirazaki Tihashiberi
Super Otaku Magazine Issue #297

Toriyama-san has agreed to answer some questions for us today. Much thanks to Toriyama-san after the craze on the Majin Buu period. (Do note that this was not a cover story, and thus, short).

Nirazaki: Many fans have given positive feedback over the Majin Buu period. The inclusion of fusion was an unexpected twist. What gave you the idea?

Toriyama-san: Well in order to have a villain with so much strength, you need someone around that can rival him. Majin Buu is incredibly strong. Its not easy to create a character that can keep up. So I thought of making the characters fuse to create new characters without taking the focus off the main characters.

Nirazaki: There have been many changes since the Saiya-jins came to earth. Do you ever think about the progress?

Toriyama-san: Yes I do. Doragonboru has come a long way. They went from running at super speed to moving at the speed of light! (Laughs)

Nirazaki: There was uproar over the rematch between Son Goku and Bejita. Were you planning this the entire time?

Toriyama-san: (Laughs) It was more of a crowd pleaser. Son Gokuu and Bejita didnt have the opportunity to fight in the Seru period, and with a new saga to start with, it would not be hard to work in that kind of battle.

Nirazaki: Youve been telling everyone how this is the end. Will Doragonboru really end after Majin Buu?

Toriyama-san: Yes. Ive put so much time on Doragonboru I cant do much else. I never expected Doragonboru to be this long in the first place. I think its been concluded on a high note. After all, if I had my way, Id of ended the manga after the Freeza period! (Laughs)

Nirazaki: You like to laugh about this a lot. Will parting with Doragonboru be difficult?

Toriyama-san: On one side, Im relieved. On the other side, its like seeing a child move away.

Nirazaki: I know that a lot of people want to hear more about fusion. With Gotenkusu now in the story, will he play that big of a role? And most of all, is he stronger than Son Goku himself?

Toriyama-san: Well I dont know yet. Ive planned some things with Gotenkusu, but he wont be the focus of the entire saga. Youll see as things develop. As for their strength, Gotenkusu is a little bit stronger, but you wouldnt notice a difference. Still, Son Goku will always be the most skilled martial artist! (Smiles) But Gotenkusu will not be the only person to go higher than son Goku.

Nirazaki: What does that last part mean?

Toriyama-san: Youll find out.

Nirazaki: Ill remember that! One last question.

Toriyama-san: Make it good, you wont get a second chance! Kidding, Ill see you again.

Nirazaki: Is Son Goku dead forever? He has come back before, but it looks like hes out of lives.

Toriyama-san: I dont want to shift the focus, so I have to keep certain things close to their roots. Son Goku will have his day, but right now its up to "Super Gotenkusu!".

NOW THE ARGUMENT OF NORMAL HUMANS CAN SEE HIM I CAN FIND IN ALL THE SUPERMAN VS DOOMSDAY TOO, LOIS LANE AND JIMMY OLSEN WERE COMENTING THE FIGHT, THEY WERE ALSO SEEN IN TV, ALSO IN SUPERMAN VS DOOMSDAY REX, LEX LUTHOR WAS WATCHING THE FIGHT IN A SCREEN, AND TRAP THEN EASY CLOSING THE ROOM AND ANPUTTING KRIPTONITE RADIATION, ALL THIS IS MAKE FOR THE SAKE OF THE HISTORY, DOES NOT CHANGE THAT IN THE STANDAR OF POWER, SUPERMAN IS 99% LIGHT SPEED IN EARTH AND SUPERIOR IN SPACE, AND GOKU HAVE LIGHT SPEED REFLEXES TO FIGHT, SENSE, FIND AND BLOCK SUPERMAN. ( but that will be only in minimum in his SSJ2-SSJ3 )

😕 That interview has proven to be fake you know that right? That and the fact nobobody has ever heard of a Super Otaku Magazine.

I have an Superman comic where he fights Brainiac and an creation of B, they fight in an Solar System which then explodes and knocks Superman uncouncious for about an milisecond 😉. I will have to search though, givie me some time.

Originally posted by Batman-Prime
I have an Superman comic where he fights Brainiac and an creation of B, they fight in an Solar System which then explodes and knocks Superman uncouncious for about an milisecond 😉. I will have to search though, givie me some time.

Wait a second Destiny Guy, I don't recall there ever being any proof that SSJ2 is 50 times stronger than SSJ1

To DVampire, You can think whatever you want, I don’t care, and your arrogance is show clear insulting me without reason, first the debate is open right? Second if you don’t want anybody to disagree with you close the thread.

raw energy for earth's explosion:

2.24E+39 or 2.24 x 10^33 megatons of TNT

Raw energy of the sun explosion
2.30E+48

Total energy in the center of Earth explosion
4.03E+46

Total energy of the sun explosion
1.14937E+15

This is a Science web page link:
http://www.madsci.org/posts/archive...09251.As.r.html

This is correct however your understanding of the figures is not. It Takes more energy to destroy the Earth than the sun in these equations because ground zero is the sun. To reach the Earth the blast would have had to travel 8 light minutes loosing much of its energy due to the inverse square law.

You'll notice in the raw energy section the sun has a magnitude of billion times greater than the Earth.

Hence why in these equations it takes more energy to destroy than Pluto than Earth despite pluto being a fraction of Earths mas and size.

This is real physics, not comics physics, the explosion of a planet like Earth produce more power than the star like the sun, due more mass, density and the elements that compound the Earth are vast than the elements in the sun.

This was my favorite bit and the most incorrect. The sun has 332,946 times the mass of the Earth. Look it up on wikipedia for gods sake.

NOW THE ARGUMENT OF NORMAL HUMANS CAN SEE HIM I CAN FIND IN ALL THE SUPERMAN VS DOOMSDAY TOO, LOIS LANE AND JIMMY OLSEN WERE COMENTING THE FIGHT, THEY WERE ALSO SEEN IN TV, ALSO IN SUPERMAN VS DOOMSDAY REX, LEX LUTHOR WAS WATCHING THE FIGHT IN A SCREEN, AND TRAP THEN EASY CLOSING THE ROOM AND ANPUTTING KRIPTONITE RADIATION, ALL THIS IS MAKE FOR THE SAKE OF THE HISTORY, DOES NOT CHANGE THAT IN THE STANDAR OF POWER, SUPERMAN IS 99% LIGHT SPEED IN EARTH AND SUPERIOR IN SPACE, AND GOKU HAVE LIGHT SPEED REFLEXES TO FIGHT, SENSE, FIND AND BLOCK SUPERMAN. ( but that will be only in minimum in his SSJ2-SSJ3 )

A non canon Dvd based of an era where Superman was exponentially weaker than he is now counts? Thats news to me.

Originally posted by Kento
Is this Pre or Post Crisis? And...does it really even matter any more since the last Crisis since I haven't kept up with comics.

IIRC PreC but since we know that PreC is canon and that Superman is our Superman from Earth-1 😉.

Scan1

Scan2

Scan3

Originally posted by DestinyGuy678
I've been to the other thread they posted proof that at the least the power level fro mssj1 to sjj2 increases about 50 times

Completely unsubstantiated. The only evidence for this whatsoever is the statistic in the Daizenshuus (which are of questionable canonicity in the first place) showing that base Goku's PL during the Frieza saga is 50 times less than his power level once he reaches SSJ1. Obviously this does not say anything about the other transformations other than providing a basis for speculation. Furthermore, power levels are not, and never have been, a linear or logical scale that could be used for actually judging stats and abilities.

cant say I looked at it that much though, I would also think it obvoius that gokus kamehameha stronger than roshis especially since only time roshi was a problem to gok uwas as a child

I never said it wasn't. Please stop with this ridiculous strawman.

Is just logic, if there is only 2 or 3 times like some want to believe here than this there is no need to go Supersaiyan, Kaioken top was 20 times his normal, the supersaiyan plop is exagerated, but is what the author make it like that to finish the history in the Freeza saga, later for fan demand he continue the series, so the pattern it has to follow this first X 50 times, is up to your criteria.

Again, that is all based on power level, or amount of ki, which does not scale linearly with strength, speed, or destructive ability. Furthermore, nothing about PL of the later SSJ states was ever stated. The statistic in the Daizenshuu is based only on Goku's PL during the Frieza saga anyway, and SSJs in the same states can be of different powers. For example, SSJ1 Vegeta was stronger than SSJ1 Goku, SSJ1 Goten and Trunks were stronger than SSJ1 Vegeta (considering they were able to fight evenly with android 18 and were beating her when they ditched their costume and fought separately), SSJ2 Goku and SSJ2 Vegeta were stronger than SSJ2 Gohan, etc.

To DVampire, You can think whatever you want, I don’t care, and your arrogance is show clear insulting me without reason, first the debate is open right? Second if you don’t want anybody to disagree with you close the thread.

raw energy for earth's explosion:

2.24E+39 or 2.24 x 10^33 megatons of TNT

Raw energy of the sun explosion
2.30E+48

Total energy in the center of Earth explosion
4.03E+46

Total energy of the sun explosion
1.14937E+15

This is a Science web page link:
http://www.madsci.org/posts/archive...09251.As.r.html

This is real physics, not comics physics, the explosion of a planet like Earth produce more power than the star like the sun, due more mass, density and the elements that compound the Earth are vast than the elements in the sun.

Therefore an attack like Kid Buu Destroying the Earth is greater than the center of the sun explosion, that is the power of Saiyans like Gohan, Vegeta and Goku.

You can say many things, but you always measure power with size, that is an incorrect approach.

Is this measured in ergs? Way to make me do the legwork to convert it to joules to see if your figures are right.

Besides, you're acting like sitting in the center of the sun (which doesn't even inconvenience him at all) is Superman's greatest durability feat.

ON THE SUBJECT OF SPEED, THIS IS AN OFICCIAL INTERVIEW I FOUND IN MFG FORUMS, A WELL RESPECTED AN NO BIAS DRAGONBALL SITE, THEY CONFIRM THIS INTERVIEW AS REAL AN TORIYAMA IS STATING THE SPEED OF DBZ AS LIGHT SPEED, (Excuse me for the capital letters but that is to make a difference of what I am saying an the interview) THE INTERVIEW IS MADE IN THE MIDDLE OF BUU SAGA.

*snip*

This is a well - known hoax. There's no such publication as "Super Otaku Magazine". Someone just made this up on a forum somewhere and it spread because people believed it.

Provide scans of the actual interview in the magazine (this challenge has been issued to everyone who has posted this bogus interview and has never been met).

DBZ characters are not even 1% of lightspeed.

If you don’t want nobody to debate and disagree with you close this thread, and declare the winner, all I did is state concrete prove how underestimate is Goku in this forum.

[quote]This is the Daizenzu Dragonball Universe, the planet kai dimension is out of the Universe, approve by Toriyama

*snip*

So the amount of energy of SSj3 Goku is vast enough to be a thread to Superman, well this is a personal opinion.

Raise my case.

You do realize this is completely unquantifiable, right? Sensing ki across dimensions is a common ability in the DBU, especially for characters like the Kaioshins.

That doesn't prove anything.

Wait a second Destiny Guy, I don't recall there ever being any proof that SSJ2 is 50 times stronger than SSJ1

There isn't.

I never said it wasn't. Please stop with this ridiculous strawman.

how is it strawman wouldnt you say it is obvious that supermans laser vision is stronger than superboys or kryptos?

Do you even know what a strawman argument is? You're claiming I said something I never said

In the Vegeta saga Raditz could move faster then a bullet, they were already past the sound of speed at the earliest point in the series and we know that SSJ3 goku is at the very least 100 times more powerful then Raditz. I would venture to say Gokue is approaching light speed, 300-500 class strength and a planet buster.

Originally posted by The Great Galen
In the Vegeta saga Raditz could move faster then a bullet, they were already past the sound of speed at the earliest point in the series and we know that SSJ3 goku is at the very least 100 times more powerful then Raditz. I would venture to say Gokue is approaching light speed, 300-500 class strength and a planet buster.

i say his strength is in the thousands of tons, his strength is most like multiplied by 10 or higher each transformation. im basing this off the fact that he lifts 40 tons with ease in super saiyan form whereas in his normal form he was using 2 tons. and he clearly could have put more weight on. so ima say around 4-6k ssj3

Well a SSJ transformation is greater then a KaiokenX20, we dont know how much a SSJ2/SSJ would be but we know it will more then likly be greater then SSJ transformation obviously.

Originally posted by The Great Galen
In the Vegeta saga Raditz could move faster then a bullet, they were already past the sound of speed at the earliest point in the series and we know that SSJ3 goku is at the very least 100 times more powerful then Raditz.

Where did you get this number from, and why do you assume it corresponds to a linear speed increase?

I would venture to say Gokue is approaching light speed, 300-500 class strength and a planet buster.

Show me a feat that approaches lightspeed then. Even at the end of the manga, characters still take several minutes to fly to other locations on earth.

i say his strength is in the thousands of tons, his strength is most like multiplied by 10 or higher each transformation. im basing this off the fact that he lifts 40 tons with ease in super saiyan form whereas in his normal form he was using 2 tons. and he clearly could have put more weight on. so ima say around 4-6k ssj3

Completely unfounded extrapolation.

Originally posted by Endless Mike
Do you even know what a strawman argument is? You're claiming I said something I never said

i saw a scan of cell saying he had gathered enough power to blow up the solar system ... but it was dismissed as a bluff ... why is this any differnet to supes being able to crack the moon with a sneeze , punch black adam with enough strength to split the moon in half and before someone says because 60 years of feats ... muten roshi blew up the moon with an official power level of less than 200 i believe & by the time goku fights freiza whereby his power levels is still stated officially (direct from akira) it is like a hundred thousand times as much so a solar system is actually practical by cell saga !

so please none of those abdsurd double standards to suit your bias please.

Originally posted by ankur29
i saw a scan of cell saying he had gathered enough power to blow up the solar system ... but it was dismissed as a bluff ... why is this any differnet to supes being able to crack the moon with a sneeze , punch black adam with enough strength to split the moon in half and before someone says because 60 years of feats ... muten roshi blew up the moon with an official power level of less than 200 i believe & by the time goku fights freiza whereby his power levels is still stated officially (direct from akira) it is like a hundred thousand times as much so a solar system is actually practical by cell saga !

so please none of those abdsurd double standards to suit your bias please.

The BIG difference my friend ist easy, Superman did split a moon in half, he didn't talked about it. If you talk about something it may be a bluff or hyperbole, you have to do it, so that everyonecan see you doing it, like in the Supermancomics 😉.

Powerlevels represent the overall strength, speed,durability and kI manipulation of a character. Powerlevels are depicted through numerical value, a character with a exceeding numerical value is stroner, faster, more durable and has greater Ki potential then a character with a lower numerical value. In the very beginning of the DBZ manga, Raitz sits at a powerlevel of 1200, by the time Goku arrives on namek in the Freiza saga his powerlevel is at 180,000. This is more then 100x Raditz powerlevel...and by the time king cold and freiza arrive on earth Goku's powerlevel rised to 20,000,000. Raditz was already fast then sound by that point so I dont think its to far fetched to say Goku is appraoching light years when SSJ3 Goku would be more then 1000 times powerful then raditz.