Superman vs Goku (Official Thread)

Originally posted by The Great Galen
Powerlevels represent the overall strength, speed,durability and kI manipulation of a character. Powerlevels are depicted through numerical value, a character with a exceeding numerical value is stroner, faster, more durable and has greater Ki potential then a character with a lower numerical value. In the very beginning of the DBZ manga, Raitz sits at a powerlevel of 1200, by the time Goku arrives on namek in the Freiza saga his powerlevel is at 180,000. This is more then 100x Raditz powerlevel...and by the time king cold and freiza arrive on earth Goku's powerlevel rised to 20,000,000. Raditz was already fast then sound by that point so I dont think its to far fetched to say Goku is appraoching light years when SSJ3 Goku would be more then 1000 times powerful then raditz.

Originally posted by DestinyGuy678
.... I didnt say you said that I'm asking if you would agree

Based on the assumption that I made a claim which I never did.

Cut it out.

i saw a scan of cell saying he had gathered enough power to blow up the solar system ... but it was dismissed as a bluff

Because it only caused a small crater in the ground.

but it was dismissed as a bluff ... why is this any differnet to supes being able to crack the moon with a sneeze

That one is pretty obviously hyperbole

punch black adam with enough strength to split the moon in half

Because he's actually demonstrated that kind of power?

and before someone says because 60 years of feats ... muten roshi blew up the moon with an official power level of less than 200 i believe & by the time goku fights freiza whereby his power levels is still stated officially (direct from akira) it is like a hundred thousand times as much so a solar system is actually practical by cell saga!

No, it's really not. First of all, power levels are completely nonsensical and inconsistent, and therefore useless for actually extrapolating stats and abilities. Second of all, you have no idea of the energies required to destroy the solar system. Look up gravitational binding energy and the inverse - square law.

so please none of those abdsurd double standards to suit your bias please.

LOL

Powerlevels represent the overall strength, speed,durability and kI manipulation of a character. Powerlevels are depicted through numerical value, a character with a exceeding numerical value is stroner, faster, more durable and has greater Ki potential then a character with a lower numerical value.

Yes, but the scale isn't logical. You can't use them to determine how much stronger they are with any kind of accuracy.

In the very beginning of the DBZ manga, Raitz sits at a powerlevel of 1200, by the time Goku arrives on namek in the Freiza saga his powerlevel is at 180,000. This is more then 100x Raditz powerlevel...

And your point is? Power levels are meaningless. They don't scale linearly with strength, speed, or any other stat.

and by the time king cold and freiza arrive on earth Goku's powerlevel rised to 20,000,000.

The only power level after the Frieza saga that was ever stated was Trunks having a PL of 5 when he was hiding his power.

Raditz was already fast then sound by that point so I dont think its to far fetched to say Goku is appraoching light years when SSJ3 Goku would be more then 1000 times powerful then raditz.

First of all, power levels do not scale linearly with speed. Second of all, where do you get 1000 times from? That was never stated. Third of all, the speed of light is approximately 871,490 times the speed of sound. DBZ characters still take several minutes to fly to another part of the earth even at the end of the manga.

Based on the assumption that I made a claim which I never did.

Cut it out.

....reread the post...or retake english, I was asking you if you would agree on the assumption that supermans heat vision is more powerful than kryptos or superboys despite the fact that has never been stated on panel?

Originally posted by The Great Galen
Powerlevels represent the overall strength, speed,durability and kI manipulation of a character. Powerlevels are depicted through numerical value, a character with a exceeding numerical value is stroner, faster, more durable and has greater Ki potential then a character with a lower numerical value. In the very beginning of the DBZ manga, Raitz sits at a powerlevel of 1200, by the time Goku arrives on namek in the Freiza saga his powerlevel is at 180,000. This is more then 100x Raditz powerlevel...and by the time king cold and freiza arrive on earth Goku's powerlevel rised to 20,000,000. Raditz was already fast then sound by that point so I dont think its to far fetched to say Goku is appraoching light years when SSJ3 Goku would be more then 1000 times powerful then raditz.

Have you though about the possibility that the increased Powerlevel is something like an Manapool of those beings. They can amp their Str and other abilities, though only in an limited way and can put some more power into their blasts. However because of their greater Mana they can hit a bit harder and fight way longer. When Radiz is drained after his first attack, which won't pierce the energydefense of goku (his aura which helps more vs energybased attacks) goku wold still have enough energy to fight 1000of such fights.... This is a more likely possibility then those false calculations because of such hyperbole.

Don't misunderstand me, Goku is powerful, but you should, looking at his "real" feats, try to interprete those Powerlevels in an more likely way then saying "He has an 1000 higher powerlevel, so his physical str is 1000 higher".

Well every opponent Goku has overcome has always been defeated due to the fact thats Goku's numerical value for his powerlevel has exceeded that of his enemy(this statment is true with every lose/win in the series). Power levels scale linearly with speed, durability, strength and KI potential obviously, Goku speed blitz the Ginyu force because he had a higher powerlevel. Its a very simple concept to determine the ranks in the DBZ universe so lets not complicate this.

Originally posted by Batman-Prime
The BIG difference my friend ist easy, Superman did split a moon in half, he didn't talked about it. If you talk about something it may be a bluff or hyperbole, you have to do it, so that everyonecan see you doing it, like in the Supermancomics 😉.

you fail to recognise my argument , if 'muten roshi' a perverted weakling (who would get owned by a saibamen) by the cell saga was able to DESTROY the moon with his own power , how is it a bluff when Cell threatens to blow up the solar system who is thousands of times stronger than roshi ... remember dbz is uncannily powerful

you fail to recognise my argument , if 'muten roshi' a perverted weakling (who would get owned by a saibamen) by the cell saga was able to DESTROY the moon with his own power , how is it a bluff when Cell threatens to blow up the solar system who is thousands of times stronger than roshi ... remember dbz is uncannily powerful

Master Roshi also has a power level 20 times that of an overweight farmer. Do you think the farmer if he was taught how to use ki could destroy a country with his power level? Could Videl or Hercule? Power level doesn't scale linearly.

If cell could blow up a solar system and his blast was countered by Gohan at SSJ2, how was Goku and Vegeta at the same level unable to deflect Kid Buu's Planet destroying blast?

Originally posted by Galvaclaw
Master Roshi also has a power level 20 times that of an overweight farmer. Do you think the farmer if he was taught how to use ki could destroy a country with his power level? Could Videl or Hercule? Power level doesn't scale linearly.

If cell could blow up a solar system and his blast was countered by Gohan at SSJ2, how was Goku and Vegeta at the same level unable to deflect Kid Buu's Planet destroying blast?

wasn't kid buu far stronger than an ascended supersiyan ,kid buu is dozens of times stronger than ssj2 ... he is as strong as ssj3 which also must be dozens of time more powerful than ssj2

Yes but it was only a planet destroying blast. It was stated to be enough energy to destroy the Earth 10 times over. Which would make it less powerful than Cell's blast if it was indeed solar system destroying.

SSJ3 isn't an increase of dozens of times. Vegeta at SSJ 2 could keep up with Fat Buu for a good while and SSJ3 Goku was only slightly above him. It's three to five times at most.

No a SSJ transformation is a huge upgrade in power, its more powerful then a KaiKenX20 just so u know. LMAO at Power level not scale linearly, everyone who has defeated someone has done so because they have had a higher powerlevel...its one of the most simplistic wayes to rate rankings in power.

Originally posted by The Great Galen
No a SSJ transformation is a huge upgrade in power, its more powerful then a KaiKenX20 just so u know. LMAO at Power level not scale linearly, everyone who has defeated someone has done so because they have had a higher powerlevel...its one of the most simplistic wayes to rate rankings in power.

Supes wins.

Originally posted by DestinyGuy678
....reread the post...or retake english, I was asking you if you would agree on the assumption that supermans heat vision is more powerful than kryptos or superboys despite the fact that has never been stated on panel?

And you were asking me that since you were assuming I made a claim that I never did. I'm not answering a question that you asked based on false premises.

Have you though about the possibility that the increased Powerlevel is something like an Manapool of those beings. They can amp their Str and other abilities, though only in an limited way and can put some more power into their blasts. However because of their greater Mana they can hit a bit harder and fight way longer. When Radiz is drained after his first attack, which won't pierce the energydefense of goku (his aura which helps more vs energybased attacks) goku wold still have enough energy to fight 1000of such fights.... This is a more likely possibility then those false calculations because of such hyperbole.

Don't misunderstand me, Goku is powerful, but you should, looking at his "real" feats, try to interprete those Powerlevels in an more likely way then saying "He has an 1000 higher powerlevel, so his physical str is 1000 higher".

This is an interesting theory, and it seems to be supported by the evidence.

Well every opponent Goku has overcome has always been defeated due to the fact thats Goku's numerical value for his powerlevel has exceeded that of his enemy(this statment is true with every lose/win in the series).

Considering that they didn't even use power levels after the Frieza saga, I'm going to have to call BS on this.

Power levels scale linearly with speed, durability, strength and KI potential obviously

How is that obvious? The farmer that Raditz killed had a PL of 5, going by Roshi's moon feat he would have had more power than a nuclear arsenal.

Goku speed blitz the Ginyu force because he had a higher powerlevel. Its a very simple concept to determine the ranks in the DBZ universe so lets not complicate this.

Except it's WRONG. Sure, a higher power level means you're stronger and faster. But it doesn't mean you are just so much stronger and faster that it can be determined by scaling the numbers.

Burter was the fastest on the Ginyu force but he had a lower PL than Captain Ginyu.

Trunks had a higher PL than Cell but Cell was still faster and beat him.

you fail to recognise my argument , if 'muten roshi' a perverted weakling (who would get owned by a saibamen) by the cell saga was able to DESTROY the moon with his own power , how is it a bluff when Cell threatens to blow up the solar system who is thousands of times stronger than roshi ... remember dbz is uncannily powerful

First of all, it's never stated that he is "thousands of times more powerful", you just pulled that statistic out of your ass. Second of all, do you know the energies involved to destroy a solar system? It takes around 1800 times as much energy to destroy the earth as it does to destroy the moon, and 960 times more energy than that to destroy the earth and the moon in one explosion. Third of all, the attack only created a small crater.

wasn't kid buu far stronger than an ascended supersiyan ,kid buu is dozens of times stronger than ssj2 ... he is as strong as ssj3 which also must be dozens of time more powerful than ssj2

"Dozens" - where do these numbers come from? Where were they stated? Nowhere, that's where. You're just making them up. Furthermore, you're missing the point: Buu's attack only destroyed the earth, not the solar system, and Goku and Vegeta couldn't block it.

Yes but it was only a planet destroying blast. It was stated to be enough energy to destroy the Earth 10 times over.

Technically that was only in the dub. In the manga they just said "We can't block that!" and it destroyed the earth.

No a SSJ transformation is a huge upgrade in power, its more powerful then a KaiKenX20 just so u know

And your point is? Kaio-Ken is unscalable as well.

LMAO at Power level not scale linearly, everyone who has defeated someone has done so because they have had a higher powerlevel...its one of the most simplistic wayes to rate rankings in power.

Non - sequiter. Just because characters with higher power levels are stronger than characters with lower power levels doesn't mean they scale linearly. I've already provided several examples that debunk this idea.

If you want an analogy, look at the KMC tier list. All of the characters in higher tiers are stronger than the characters in lower tiers. Does that mean that a character in the transcendent tier (the 10th tier) is only 10 times as powerful as a character in the low street tier?

Originally posted by Endless Mike

First of all, it's never stated that he is "thousands of times more powerful", you just pulled that statistic out of your ass. Second of all, do you know the energies involved to destroy a solar system? It takes around 1800 times as much energy to destroy the earth as it does to destroy the moon, and 960 times more energy than that to destroy the earth and the moon in one explosion. Third of all, the attack only created a small crater.

"Dozens" - where do these numbers come from? Where were they stated? Nowhere, that's where. You're just making them up. Furthermore, you're missing the point: Buu's attack only destroyed the earth, not the solar system, and Goku and Vegeta couldn't block it.

a word of notice first ,endless mike... you were first to ultilise an insulting tone & i have never doubted you to be anything less than a curtious poster.

Now,are you ignorant ? Have bias towards superman and therefore dimiss any logic that contradicts youe opinion or do you hate dbz alltogether ?

Approaching this logically : How many times more powerful would you say freiza was compared to roshi? power-levelswise frieza was over a million wasn't he and that was still a fractoion of his power ! ( i will find the evidence if you are unaware of this and wish to see it , i read it somewhere and my memory of it was confirmed by the extract on dragonball on wiki ) whereas roshi was only around 200 , these were officail power levels form Akira himself i belive , akira's power levels were discontinued after freiza saga!

now i hope you can do the math and work out the factor of how many times more powerful freiza was than roshi ..i intentionally said cell was a 1000 times as powerful as roshi but you ignorantly questioned this without any logic . also freiza was no way as strong as cell as super saiyan trunks was enough to beat not acended.

if ssj2 is not dozen of times weaker than ssj3 why does goku use ssj3 and not ssj2?

for future reference please avoid demeaning insults as you will be paid back in full ...... btw sorry if i sound demeaning towards you 😛

if ssj2 is not dozen of times weaker than ssj3 why does goku use ssj3 and not ssj2?

Even if he was twice as powerful it would be an advantage. Fat Buu had twice the power of SSJ2 Gohan going by the energy taken to revive him. If Goku was dozens of times more powerful than a super sayain 2 why would he even notice Fat Buu. It'd be like Raditz taking on captain ginyu, yet it wasn't.

Once again prove that power levels scale linearly. Prove that a power level of 2000 has twice the physical power of some one of 1000. I've yet to find someone arguing for DBZ to do this.

At a power level of 10 Goku was much more than twice powerful than someone of power level 5. He could takes bullets jump high and had super strength. At 20 times that level Master roshi had enough power to blow up the moon. That isn't linear it appears to be a logarithmic (look it up) scale. Which match the growth of feats in DBZ.

Still this just a side argument that keep cropping up. Prove to us that Goku can fight Superman. Give us stength feats that match Superman. Show Goku doing blasts that can exceed Superman durability. Prove that Goku is as fast as Superman.

Originally posted by Galvaclaw
Even if he was twice as powerful it would be an advantage. Fat Buu had twice the power of SSJ2 Gohan going by the energy taken to revive him. If Goku was dozens of times more powerful than a super sayain 2 why would he even notice Fat Buu. It'd be like Raditz taking on captain ginyu, yet it wasn't.

wasn't fat buu's power increasing also? i know this from anime not sure about manga?

I know that Supes would still take this regardless, my argument was never agaisnt that but rather the ignorance from others who claim DBZ powerlevels do not scale linearly. At best, Goku' max would make him above a 100 class for strength, a planet buster and possibly mid herald. He is certainly faster then mach 3 and is possibly 1/4 of light speed.

And you were asking me that since you were assuming I made a claim that I never did. I'm not answering a question that you asked based on false premises.

Originally posted by DestinyGuy678
....wow 🤨 ....ok I said "wouldnt you agree to the assumption than supermans alser vision is greater than kryptos, even though that has never been stated on english"...maybe you do need a little english help, my question is saying would yo uagree to THE (not yours) assumption

Superman has greater feats with heat vision than Krypto has. That's how we know he's more powerfull. Just like how we know Superman can fly faster than power girl despite it never been stated on panel.

I know that Supes would still take this regardless, my argument was never agaisnt that but rather the ignorance from others who claim DBZ powerlevels do not scale linearly. At best, Goku' max would make him above a 100 class for strength, a planet buster and possibly mid herald. He is certainly faster then mach 3 and is possibly 1/4 of light speed.

I agree with you. I'd put a SSJ 3 goku on roughly the same level as Terrax the tamer. Terrax has a big edge in flight speed while Goku a big edge in combat speed.