Originally posted by Galvaclaw
He's ran at the speed of light before. You know by moving his legs and arms. You can in general move your arms much faster than your running speed.
That logic wont work in fictional world unless the author made him punch/kick at lightspeed and again its not a punch and kick but a running speed.
Originally posted by Galvaclaw
No he can't.
Ridiculous statements bias.
Goku vs. Mirai Trunks, stated that Goku can read the animosity of any living energy which means he would know if his opponent would attack or not.
Originally posted by Endless Mike
By Max Lordhttp://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/Superman/supermanvsww12.jpg
In space they can fly at lightspeed but not inside the planet. And again that doesn't prove that Supes can punch/kick at lighstpeed.
Originally posted by Endless Mike
They were fighting the whole time.
It doesn't prove that his punches and kicks are lightspeed.
Originally posted by Endless Mike
Except it's been shown repeatedly that he can react as fast as he can move.
This is fictional world and you cant base the character's speed on reactions.
Originally posted by Endless Mike
Why wouldn't he be able to? He can tag the Flash when he's moving at super speed, etc.
Yeah right,
Supes can tag the Flash but slower opponent can tag him, while slower opponents CANT tag Goku.
Originally posted by Endless Mikehttp://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/Superman/supermanspeedfight.jpg
Its flying speed plus they were at outer space.
Originally posted by Endless Mikehttp://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/Superman/supermanspeed5.jpg
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/Superman/supermanspeed6.jpg
Its travel speed not punching and kicking at lightspeed.
Originally posted by Endless Mikehttp://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/Superman/supermanspeedblitz1.jpg
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/Superman/supermanspeedblitz2.jpg
Its flying speed not punching and kicking at lightspeed.
Originally posted by Endless Mikehttp://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/Superman/supermanvsarion4.jpg
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/Superman/supermanskill.jpg
Is that a lightspeed punch or kick?
Originally posted by Endless Mikehttp://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/Superman/supermanreaction.jpg
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/Superman/supermanreaction1.jpg
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/Superman/supermanwwflashspeed.jpg
Its flying/running speed not a lighstpeed punch and kick.
Originally posted by Endless Mikehttp://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/Superman/supermanwwflashspeed1.jpg
Invisible speed was done by Goku in the early dragon ball chapter. Besides Supes is not punching but flying.
Originally posted by Endless Mikehttp://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/Superman/supermanvsmantis.jpg
It doesn't prove that punch is lighspeed plus the enemy land (non-super speed) a blow on Supes.
Originally posted by Endless Mikehttp://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/Superman/supermanvsmantis1.jpg
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/Superman/supermanfightswithspeed.jpg
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/Superman/supermanspeed8.jpg
Its flying speed not a lighspeed punch or kick.
STOP TROLLING, THIS IS NOT A RESPECT THREAD SO STOP POSTING 15 SCANS. 5 SCANS EVERY POST IS ENOUGH.
he doesn't really have to , they can easily catch bullets? fight faster than the human/superhuman eye can follow
Firstly by his logic they don't count as they aren't punching/kicking. Wonder woman can block dozens of lasers at the same time and she's slower than Superman.
Secondly Ozymandias and a good number of other street level heroes can catch bullets none of them are faster than sound. As for being invisible a human moving at 90m/s would be invisible. Sound moves at 330 m/s. Added to that even Wolverine has been shown to be faster than the human eye. Is he faster than sound?
You don't have to be faster than sound to catch a bullet after all your hand needs to move a much shorter distance than the bullet does.
Originally posted by nij-ayiasTranslation: "I don't have the evidence to back up my claims so in the interest of being right at all costs I'm going to accuse those who back up their claims with plenty of evidence of wrong doing. You proved your point? You must be trolling! You backed it up with plenty of evidence? I'll try to imply that you're stupid by pointing out something irrealivant. In short I like everyone else on my side have no case and must cling to desperation tactics in order to try and gain an undeserved win."
STOP TROLLING, THIS IS NOT A RESPECT THREAD SO STOP POSTING 15 SCANS. 5 SCANS EVERY POST IS ENOUGH.
I love the desperate "He can't move his arms and legs as fast as he can move the rest of him." its right up there with "I'm going to ignore the fact that he holds back so as to not cause disruption to society and say he can only move at lightspeeds in outerspace."
The second one totally ignores the fact theat he was in a black hole and escaped... I guess Earth's atmosphere is alot more restrictive than that of a black hole...
wasnt it a double blackhole??
anyway supes wins
faster, stronger, more durable, and (apparently, not 100% sure on this) blew up a planet by sneezing on it 😬
STOP TROLLING, THIS IS NOT A RESPECT THREAD SO STOP POSTING 15 SCANS. 5 SCANS EVERY POST IS ENOUGH.
Originally posted by nij-ayias
That logic wont work in fictional world unless the author made him punch/kick at lightspeed and again its not a punch and kick but a running speed.
So you think when someone's running, they aren't moving their arms and legs?
Ridiculous statements bias.Goku vs. Mirai Trunks, stated that Goku can read the animosity of any living energy which means he would know if his opponent would attack or not.
Actually he said he read his ki (which Superman doesn't have).
In space they can fly at lightspeed but not inside the planet. And again that doesn't prove that Supes can punch/kick at lighstpeed.
The only reason he doesn't fly at lightspeed on earth is because the shockwave would kill everyone. As per the OP, the fight takes place on an abandoned planet, so that wouldn't be an issue. As for flying at lightspeed inside the planet, I'd imagine that would be rather difficult.
BTW since he was fighting Wonder Woman the whole time it does prove he can react and fight FTL.
It doesn't prove that his punches and kicks are lightspeed.
They were moving faster than light while reacting to and fighting each other. What more do you want?
This is fictional world and you cant base the character's speed on reactions.
What? Reaction speed is the same as combat speed. If you can react to something come at you at lightspeed, you can dodge/block it.
What would you want to base it on, blurry drawings?
Yeah right,Supes can tag the Flash but slower opponent can tag him, while slower opponents CANT tag Goku.
Superman doesn't just dodge every attack that comes at him. He only uses his speed in a fight because he needs to. And Goku is nowhere as fast as Superman so your point is moot (not to mention he has been tagged by people slower than him, like Yakon).
Its flying speed plus they were at outer space.
Um, no. Did you even look at that scan? He was fighting around the world (moving + fighting at the same time = fighting speed).
Its travel speed not punching and kicking at lightspeed.
No, it's [b]reaction speed. He was able to go and search every building and structure in a 200 - mile radius, which means he had to individually inspect each one at that speed (proving he can react, and thus fight, at that speed).
Its flying speed not punching and kicking at lightspeed.
He was fighting at that speed, and hitting his opponent.
Is that a lightspeed punch or kick?
It's grabbing Arion's artifacts before he could react (and Arion is incredibly fast and powerful), and orchestrating an escape right from under the noses of GL and Flash who can easily tag FTL people.
Its flying/running speed not a lighstpeed punch and kick.
No, it's reacting to and intercepting the Flash who moves at lightspeed or faster (meaning he is able to react to and tag objects moving that fast).
Invisible speed was done by Goku in the early dragon ball chapter. Besides Supes is not punching but flying.
Not against White Martians, who are more powerful than anything in the DBU. And he is using his speed to attack and react.
It doesn't prove that punch is lighspeed plus the enemy land (non-super speed) a blow on Supes.
Since you seem to define speed by blurry lines, I thought I'd show you some. And Superman didn't try to dodge Mantis' attack, this is from a story that took place early on when he knew practically nothing about Apokolips. Do you know who Mantis even is? He's one of the most powerful New Gods.
Its flying speed not a lighspeed punch or kick.
No, it's reaction speed. He can react to and hit things moving at lightspeed or faster. That's all that's required.
STOP TROLLING, THIS IS NOT A RESPECT THREAD SO STOP POSTING 15 SCANS. 5 SCANS EVERY POST IS ENOUGH.
There's no rule against posting lots of scans.
Originally posted by Endless Mike
So you think when someone's running, they aren't moving their arms and legs?
As I said before he can't do it unless the author made him do that because this is only a fictional world not a real world. Too bad I am asking for punch and kick but all you can bring up is running. Are you trying to suggest that a marathon runner can punch/kick faster than a taekwondo fighter or boxer?
Originally posted by Endless Mike
Actually he said he read his ki (which Superman doesn't have).
LOL, it was stated in DBZ that even insects have chi and it is essential to all living organism. Superman is a living organism.
Originally posted by Endless Mike
The only reason he doesn't fly at lightspeed on earth is because the shockwave would kill everyone. As per the OP, the fight takes place on an abandoned planet, so that wouldn't be an issue. As for flying at lightspeed inside the planet, I'd imagine that would be rather difficult.
FAIL, flash did use his super sonic speed against superboy prime and sonar (flash used it in a city). If there were people watching then you're argument is accepted but if there were none ITSA TOTAL FAIL.
Originally posted by Endless Mike
BTW since he was fighting Wonder Woman the whole time it does prove he can react and fight FTL.They were moving faster than light while reacting to and fighting each other. What more do you want?
LOL, he was flying but how accurate you are if he is also punching at the same speed. Again, I don't want logic or assumption instead show some proofs or character's statements.
Originally posted by Endless Mike
What? Reaction speed is the same as combat speed. If you can react to something come at you at lightspeed, you can dodge/block it.What would you want to base it on, blurry drawings?
Another assumption, why can't you show an actual proofs and character's statements that Supes can really punch and kick at lightspeed?
Originally posted by Endless Mike
Superman doesn't just dodge every attack that comes at him. He only uses his speed in a fight because he needs to. And Goku is nowhere as fast as Superman so your point is moot (not to mention he has been tagged by people slower than him, like Yakon).
LOL, since when did YAKON tag Goku? SHOW ME
IT WAS STATED BY GOKU THAT YAKON WAS FAST FOR HIS SIZE.
Originally posted by Endless Mike
Um, no. Did you even look at that scan? He was fighting around the world (moving + fighting at the same time = fighting speed).
LOL, around the world is a travel plus there were no indications that they punch/kick at the same speed.
Originally posted by Endless Mike
No, it's [b]reaction speed. He was able to go and search every building and structure in a 200 - mile radius, which means he had to individually inspect each one at that speed (proving he can react, and thus fight, at that speed).[/B]
AGAIN, why do you need to assume something? All I want is proof or character's statement not assumption.
Originally posted by Endless Mike
He was fighting at that speed, and hitting his opponent.It's grabbing Arion's artifacts before he could react (and Arion is incredibly fast and powerful), and orchestrating an escape right from under the noses of GL and Flash who can easily tag FTL people.
LOL, I know Flash can exceed light but not in an instant or not always. Flash is not a gold saints.
Originally posted by Endless Mike
No, it's reacting to and intercepting the Flash who moves at lightspeed or faster (meaning he is able to react to and tag objects moving that fast).
LOL, are you trying to suggest that ALL of Flash's movements were faster than light? Is that a 7th sense? Is he a Gold saints?
Originally posted by Endless Mike
Not against White Martians, who are more powerful than anything in the DBU. And he is using his speed to attack and react.
Bias claims, White Martians cant destroy a city with a casual blast.
Originally posted by Endless Mike
Since you seem to define speed by blurry lines, I thought I'd show you some. And Superman didn't try to dodge Mantis' attack, this is from a story that took place early on when he knew practically nothing about Apokolips. Do you know who Mantis even is? He's one of the most powerful New Gods.
LOL, being most powerful New Gods does not indicate a super speed.
All I want is a character's statements or proofs that Supes' punch/kick is faster than light. If you cant show any then Supes cant do it.
Originally posted by Endless Mike
No, it's reaction speed. He can react to and hit things moving at lightspeed or faster. That's all that's required.
Since when it was stated in DC COMICS that is the requirement?
Originally posted by Endless Mike
There's no rule against posting lots of scans.
I know but it makes you look stupid.
AGAIN, I DONT WANT ASSUMPTION FROM ANY OF YOU BUT SCANS PROVING SUPES' PUNCH/KICK IS LIGHTSPEED. I REPEAT, SCANS ONLY NOT EXPLANATIONS FROM ANY OF YOU.
Originally posted by Galvaclaw
Firstly by his logic they don't count as they aren't punching/kicking. Wonder woman can block dozens of lasers at the same time and she's slower than Superman.
BLOCKING IS DIFFERENT FROM RUNNING BECAUSE BLOCKING IS A FORM OF FIGHTING WHILE RUNNING IS NOT. LOL, THOSE DOZENS OF LASERS WERE NOT BACK STABBED UNLIKE MUTEN-ROSHI'S SITUATION.
Originally posted by Galvaclaw
Secondly Ozymandias and a good number of other street level heroes can catch bullets none of them are faster than sound. As for being invisible a human moving at 90m/s would be invisible. Sound moves at 330 m/s. Added to that even Wolverine has been shown to be faster than the human eye. Is he faster than sound?
IS THAT AN ASSUMPTION OR EVIDENCE? OK, SHOW ME SOME PROOF WHERE IT WAS STATED LIKE THIS:
"WHERE IS WOLVERINE? HE VANISHED!!!"
Originally posted by Galvaclaw
You don't have to be faster than sound to catch a bullet after all your hand needs to move a much shorter distance than the bullet does.
LOL, Muten-Roshi was BACK STABBED by a machine gun yet he caught all the bullets.
Bias claims, White Martians cant destroy a city with a casual blast.
Superman has shattered moons, bloodied the noses of galaxy destroyers, warped reality and contained black holes with his fists. White Martians are almost as strong. All those feats require millions of times the energy to destroy a city.
They have been said to be be able to shatter mountain effortlessly.
FAIL, flash did use his super sonic speed against superboy prime and sonar (flash used it in a city). If there were people watching then you're argument is accepted but if there were none ITSA TOTAL FAIL.
I've seen Flash use faster than light speed within a city with no ill effects what's your point? I've seen Flash move so fast people who move at the speed of light can't see him.
Another assumption, why can't you show an actual proofs and character's statements that Supes can really punch and kick at lightspeed?
Fact: Superman can move at above human speed.
Fact: Superman can move so fast he can blitz light speeders Wonder woman)
Fact: Superman has feats that show he can react at the speed of light an above.
LOL, I know Flash can exceed light but not in an instant or not always. Flash is not a gold saints.
Against Zoom he has. He has numerous times read his respect thread.
Superman has jumped to faster than light before. During Identity Crisis he moved from Kansas to the JLA watch tower instantly. Light takes two seconds to reach the moon. Added to this he also changed into his uniform and navigated round the halls of the watchtower at those speeds.
Originally posted by Galvaclaw
Superman has shattered moons, bloodied the noses of galaxy destroyers, warped reality and contained black holes with his fists. White Martians are almost as strong. All those feats require millions of times the energy to destroy a city.They have been said to be be able to shatter mountain effortlessly.
Saying "almost as strong" means nothing at all. It doesn't matter if he holds the black hole or not because Supes can be hurt by Black Rock or any casual blast that didn't even shook the entire planet.
Originally posted by Galvaclaw
I've seen Flash use faster than light speed within a city with no ill effects what's your point? I've seen Flash move so fast people who move at the speed of light can't see him.
My point is you don't need to be as fast as light to land a hit on Supes or Flash. Besides, it's not easy for the Flash to reach the speed of light in an instant. Again, Flash is not a Gold Saints.
Originally posted by Galvaclaw
Fact: Superman can move at above human speed.Fact: Superman can move so fast he can blitz light speeders Wonder woman)
Fact: Superman has feats that show he can react at the speed of light an above.
Fact: Superman cant punch/kick/block at the speed of light because it was not stated and there were no actual proofs.
Fact: You don't need to be faster than light to land a hit on Supes. Even Solomon Grundy could land a hit on supes
Originally posted by Galvaclaw
Against Zoom he has. He has numerous times read his respect thread.Superman has jumped to faster than light before. During Identity Crisis he moved from Kansas to the JLA watch tower instantly. Light takes two seconds to reach the moon. Added to this he also changed into his uniform and navigated round the halls of the watchtower at those speeds.
Are you telling me that moving from Kansas to the JLA watch tower is a form of fighting? or should I say punch/kick/blocking?
Originally posted by nij-ayiasFact - Superman doesn't always use his speed against lower opponents because he has no need to.
Saying "almost as strong" means nothing at all. It doesn't matter if he holds the black hole or not because Supes can be hurt by Black Rock or any casual blast that didn't even shook the entire planet.My point is you don't need to be as fast as light to land a hit on Supes or Flash. Besides, it's not easy for the Flash to reach the speed of light in an instant. Again, Flash is not a Gold Saints.
Fact: Superman cant punch/kick/block at the speed of light because it was not stated and there were no actual proofs.
Fact: You don't need to be faster than light to land a hit on Supes. Even Solomon Grundy could land a hit on supes
Are you telling me that moving from Kansas to the JLA watch tower is a form of fighting? or should I say punch/kick/blocking?
Flying somewhere doesn't equal anything...flying someplace, grabbing something, searching, places, and all that while flying faster than light does. It mean Superman has what it takes to do more than just fly fast. It means he can react and move at those speeds also. Even still all Superman has to do is fly into Gokou at full speed to kill him. Gokou won't see him, won't be able to dodge him, and just because he can feel Trunks ki easily means zilch when Superman doesn't have any more than the farmer Radditz killed more likely than not so he isn't going to be feeling it without trying and by the time he even begins to try he'll be dead again.
Saying "almost as strong" means nothing at all. It doesn't matter if he holds the black hole or not because Supes can be hurt by Black Rock or any casual blast that didn't even shook the entire planet.
Any proof that Black rock has low power? Superman gets planet shattering power from the meagre amount of solar energy that falls on him. The mere fact he can hurt Superman proves how powerful he is. These blasts don't shake the planet because they've hit Superman. He's taken planet destroying blasts like they were nothing something no Z character has done.
I've seen Goku hurt from a rock it the head. I've seen him hurt be less the class 50 blows. I've seen him hit by Ki blasts that pail before nukes.
My point is you don't need to be as fast as light to land a hit on Supes or Flash. Besides, it's not easy for the Flash to reach the speed of light in an instant. Again, Flash is not a Gold Saints.
He's searched an entire crowd in the time it takes a faster than light blast from Green Lantern to reach someone standing 10 ft from GL.
I respect your love of saint saiya but there's no need to keep bring them up as some benchmark of speed. I like Gurren lagann but I don't use it a measure for raw power.
Fact: You don't need to be faster than light to land a hit on Supes. Even Solomon Grundy could land a hit on supes
When has Grundy last been any sort of threat to Supes? He doesn't need to dodge things because he's that durable. Are you saying Superman is slower than a speeding bullet because he lets them bounce of his chest?
Fact: Superman cant punch/kick/block at the speed of light because it was not stated and there were no actual proofs.
There's no caption saying Goku can punch at speed of sound. yet we can base of feats that he can.
Originally posted by Creshosk
Translation: "I don't have the evidence to back up my claims so in the interest of being right at all costs I'm going to accuse those who back up their claims with plenty of evidence of wrong doing. You proved your point? You must be trolling! You backed it up with plenty of evidence? I'll try to imply that you're stupid by pointing out something irrealivant. In short I like everyone else on my side have no case and must cling to desperation tactics in order to try and gain an undeserved win."I love the desperate "He can't move his arms and legs as fast as he can move the rest of him." its right up there with "I'm going to ignore the fact that he holds back so as to not cause disruption to society and say he can only move at lightspeeds in outerspace."
The second one totally ignores the fact theat he was in a black hole and escaped... I guess Earth's atmosphere is alot more restrictive than that of a black hole...
with wonder woman on panel only suggests he punched wonderwoman to the sun and back not fighting the entire way he can however travel at light speed (also when he was running where did it state he was light speed)
Originally posted by Kentogokus IT is instant he could react and dodge if needed....I think superman would win but goku is being underestimated heavily
Fact - Superman doesn't always use his speed against lower opponents because he has no need to.Flying somewhere doesn't equal anything...flying someplace, grabbing something, searching, places, and all that while flying faster than light does. It mean Superman has what it takes to do more than just fly fast. It means he can react and move at those speeds also. Even still all Superman has to do is fly into Gokou at full speed to kill him. Gokou won't see him, won't be able to dodge him, and just because he can feel Trunks ki easily means zilch when Superman doesn't have any more than the farmer Radditz killed more likely than not so he isn't going to be feeling it without trying and by the time he even begins to try he'll be dead again.
