Originally posted by DestinyGuy678
that the thing though he wasnt fighting while at light speed most of it was him picking someone up and carrying them at light speed or smashing into them at light speed, but theyre isnt proof that he can move his limbs as fast as his top flight speed
Um, did you even read the scans? He fought Wonder Woman around the earth and to the sun and back in 1 minute and 54 seconds. Light takes 8 minutes to reach the sun.
well everone has their own unique ki signature if he was fighting with superman (and we assume this is an arena thee wont be anyone else around) superman ki signature however small would still be existant and able to be traced.
Just because living beings in DBZ have ki doesn't mean you can apply that to other universes without evidence.
as for that supermans reflexes arent exactly fast enough to counter an attack by goku if he its right next to him (I've seen multiple issues where superman failed to dodge things moving as fast as a bullet, most of the time its because he doesn't think he can be hurt so he fails to react)
You just contradicted yourself. Obviously he would react if he thought it was a threat (which he does in this case, remember the OP specifies bloodlust).
Um, did you even read the scans? He fought Wonder Woman around the earth and to the sun and back in 1 minute and 54 seconds. Light takes 8 minutes to reach the sun.
I saw the scan the sun part one does it shower them actually fighting to the sun? the imporession I got he punchesd her she flew at super speed he flew to the sun and knocked her back.
Just because living beings in DBZ have ki doesn't mean you can apply that to other universes without evidence.
its the soul and life force they draw energy from, DC charactes obviously have souls (they become ghosts most of the time)
You just contradicted yourself. Obviously he would react if he thought it was a threat (which he does in this case, remember the OP specifies bloodlust).I didnt contradict myself I told you I didnt believe superman was fast enough to react to goku if he IT'd right next to him
anywho some of the time he was bloodlusted - superman/batman, I can't remember the characters name he was a cowboy and he was missing part of his face , the character had a kryptonite gun (and this is superman who believes in killing t odefeat his opponents and had just killed a whole team of this characters allies) the gun had a kryptonite bullet in it and it was shot at superman if supermans reflexes were fast enough he shouldve been able to recognize the bullet as kryptonite and dodge rather than stand and take it unless you have a couple of more scans where he reacts fast like that (cant remember one right now from the respect thread)
Originally posted by DestinyGuy678
[B]I saw the scan the sun part one does it shower them actually fighting to the sun? the imporession I got he punchesd her she flew at super speed he flew to the sun and knocked her back.
Of course, they were fighting the whole time. Stop ignoring the evidence.
its the soul and life force they draw energy from, DC charactes obviously have souls (they become ghosts most of the time)
How is that the same thing as DBZ ki?
I didnt contradict myself I told you I didnt believe superman was fast enough to react to goku if he IT'd right next to him
Except he's reacted to much faster things before - not to mention IT is teleportation, not speed, and takes a bit to prepare (time he wouldn't have).
anywho some of the time he was bloodlusted - superman/batman, I can't remember the characters name he was a cowboy and he was missing part of his face , the character had a kryptonite gun (and this is superman who believes in killing t odefeat his opponents and had just killed a whole team of this characters allies) the gun had a kryptonite bullet in it and it was shot at superman if supermans reflexes were fast enough he shouldve been able to recognize the bullet as kryptonite and dodge rather than stand and take it unless you have a couple of more scans where he reacts fast like that (cant remember one right now from the respect thread)
Tons of scans have already been posted on this thread - there was one where someone shot a bullet at Lois from about 10 feet away and Superman raced all the way from the other side of Metropolis and caught it before it hit her.
Originally posted by DestinyGuy678Actually the beams should be easier to see than the ki balls since they are connected to the person. I'd also think the beams would travel slower. Not sure why I've always pictured it that way. Maybe because of the rapid firing of ki balls.
oh ok that makes sense about the blasts, none the less though there have been a couple of times when the ydid trave lfast enough, it would seem beams travel faster than blasts (which makes sense)well everone has their own unique ki signature if he was fighting with superman (and we assume this is an arena thee wont be anyone else around) superman ki signature however small would still be existant and able to be traced.
as for that supermans reflexes arent exactly fast enough to counter an attack by goku if he its right next to him (I've seen multiple issues where superman failed to dodge things moving as fast as a bullet, most of the time its because he doesn't think he can be hurt so he fails to react)
Everything has it's own unique ki sure but Gokou may be able to lock onto Superman easily with nothing else around but there is still the fact IT makes a sound as it's coming in so it wouldn't really be a way to sneak up on him or throw him off, and Gokou can't move as fast as Superman. The only thing IT would be good for in this fight was to get away.
And Superman has set not even trying catching bullets shot from all directions from all different types of guns to protect Batman, and has caught bullets after flying to somebody from someplace else. Heck Superman has taken a gun from somebodies hand, and put cotton in Lois's ears while flying through a boat and creating a sonic boom that her and Jimmy were on after being captured. The fact that he put the cotton in her ear without her even knowing and not killing her, before the sonic boom even hit, and before anybody even knew what happened says something about his reaction times, and his ability to move his body at those speeds.
Of course, they were fighting the whole time. Stop ignoring the evidence.
How is that the same thing as DBZ ki?
Tons of scans have already been posted on this thread - there was one where someone shot a bullet at Lois from about 10 feet away and Superman raced all the way from the other side of Metropolis and caught it before it hit her.
Except he's reacted to much faster things before - not to mention IT is teleportation, not speed, and takes a bit to prepare (time he wouldn't have).
goku can at least move above the speed of sound most of supermans enemies didnt have super sppeed and they were able to pull off moves, especially one where it takes him miliseconds for his finger to touch his head.
Actually the beams should be easier to see than the ki balls since they are connected to the person. I'd also think the beams would travel slower. Not sure why I've always pictured it that way. Maybe because of the rapid firing of ki balls.
Everything has it's own unique ki sure but Gokou may be able to lock onto Superman easily with nothing else around but there is still the fact IT makes a sound as it's coming in so it wouldn't really be a way to sneak up on him or throw him off, and Gokou can't move as fast as Superman. The only thing IT would be good for in this fight was to get away.ok I knw he's fast but that thing with lois thats super sonic movement, still not above light (I know he can travel, I dont know baou fightAnd Superman has set not even trying catching bullets shot from all directions from all different types of guns to protect Batman, and has caught bullets after flying to somebody from someplace else. Heck Superman has taken a gun from somebodies hand, and put cotton in Lois's ears while flying through a boat and creating a sonic boom that her and Jimmy were on after being captured. The fact that he put the cotton in her ear without her even knowing and not killing her, before the sonic boom even hit, and before anybody even knew what happened says something about his reaction times, and his ability to move his body at those speeds.
If Superman can run at light speed on pure strength of his muscles as said by Flash why wouldn't he be able to punch the same? If Superman could only fly at light speed or travel how would he be able to react to things and not plow through stuff when chasing the Flash through towns and everything? He can do more than just travel that fast. Not that it really matters as Superman still doesn't even need to fight at light speed to plow into Gokou and killing him. Gokou doesn't have time to dodge stuff moving faster than him. Before he could even think he'd be dead.
Originally posted by Kentoflash said he was almost at light speed and doesn't one of the scans have gokus travel speed at light speed?
If Superman can run at light speed on pure strength of his muscles as said by Flash why wouldn't he be able to punch the same? If Superman could only fly at light speed or travel how would he be able to react to things and not plow through stuff when chasing the Flash through towns and everything? He can do more than just travel that fast. Not that it really matters as Superman still doesn't even need to fight at light speed to plow into Gokou and killing him. Gokou doesn't have time to dodge stuff moving faster than him. Before he could even think he'd be dead.
No scan exists that shows Goku moving at light speed. If Superman were to move at light speed on Earth he would destroy every thing around him. Flash can do it because of the speed force Superman does not have that luxruy. Superman was running trying to catch Flash and Flash mentioned that his momentum was incredible and if he stole his speed he would cause a path of destruction to the other side of the world.
Originally posted by MageeSuperman has moved at light speed on Earth or close when chasing Flash before. I believe it even says he's running at light speed with pure muscle in the same book as when Flash mentions what you said.
No scan exists that shows Goku moving at light speed. If Superman were to move at light speed on Earth he would destroy every thing around him. Flash can do it because of the speed force Superman does not have that luxruy. Superman was running trying to catch Flash and Flash mentioned that his momentum was incredible and if he stole his speed he would cause a path of destruction to the other side of the world.
Originally posted by DestinyGuy678No there isn't. Well there is but it's a bad translation. Faster people haven't even been shown to move light speed. Unless you're willing to believe Pre-Super Saiyan Gokou and Burta are faster than SSJ Gotenks, or adult Gohan.
flash said he was almost at light speed and doesn't one of the scans have gokus travel speed at light speed?
Originally posted by Kento
Superman has moved at light speed on Earth or close when chasing Flash before. I believe it even says he's running at light speed with pure muscle in the same book as when Flash mentions what you said. No there isn't. Well there is but it's a bad translation. Faster people haven't even been shown to move light speed. Unless you're willing to believe Pre-Super Saiyan Gokou and Burta are faster than SSJ Gotenks, or adult Gohan.
and gotenks was just showing off, I dont believe he was going at his top speed (but it did create streaks across the world like weh nsuperman went to save lois after she'd been shot, would those streaks of light illustrate the breaking of the light barrier?)
You can not tell how fast some thing is going just by looking at the animation / art. The speed needs to be stated or you need to know the time and distance in order to work out the speed. That is the problem with dbz, people think omg he's moving at light speed because we cant see him move! Instant Transmission is the only thing in dbz that comes close to light speed but Goku can't use it fast enough for it to make any kind of difference.
Haven't goku sent cooler from the earth to the sun in less then 30 seconds?
Is or isn't true that superman's power comes from our red sun? Yet super perfect cell had the power to not only blow the sun also the entire solar system. And ssj3 goku, for example (or ssj4 if we go with the gt) would easily handle cell.
Or, and by the way, ssj4 actually beat a guy hotter then sun himself (Nova Sheron)?
I am not saying that goku will beat super-man, neither the other way around. Just rised this questions in order to make people think a bit.
Originally posted by DestinyGuy678Eh I'd have to look through the Flash or Superman respect thread. Flash wasn't even trying, and was talking with Superman while searching for his wife, though I don't know if they were married yet in it, and then that's also where Flash outruns the heat vision saying then when Superman says something he leaves him in the dust quite easily. I'll look for it when I get home from work. Don't have much time before I have to go.
oh cool do you have that scan?and gotenks was just showing off, I dont believe he was going at his top speed (but it did create streaks across the world like weh nsuperman went to save lois after she'd been shot, would those streaks of light illustrate the breaking of the light barrier?)
Originally posted by kamhalDon't remember but Cooler is Non-Canon anyways. Even then it would be one of the few times the blasts have seemed so fast. Another time besides Roshi, and Piccolo would be against Broli to the sun, and Bebi I think also went to the sun. Both the last two aren't canon anyways.
Haven't goku sent cooler from the earth to the sun in less then 30 seconds?Is or isn't true that superman's power comes from our red sun? Yet super perfect cell had the power to not only blow the sun also the entire solar system. And ssj3 goku, for example (or ssj4 if we go with the gt) would easily handle cell.
Or, and by the way, ssj4 actually beat a guy hotter then sun himself (Nova Sheron)?
I am not saying that goku will beat super-man, neither the other way around. Just rised this questions in order to make people think a bit.
Superman's power comes from a YELLOW sun not red...seeing as how our sun is yellow. Cell didn't have the power to destroy the solar system either. So that's pointless to say.
Beating somebody hotter than the sun doesn't mean much either when that guy is still slower, and weaker than Superman. Plus GT isn't canon.
Don't remember but Cooler is Non-Canon anyways. Even then it would be one of the few times the blasts have seemed so fast. Another time besides Roshi, and Piccolo would be against Broli to the sun, and Bebi I think also went to the sun. Both the last two aren't canon anyways.
I know what canon is, you don't need to tell me. But i also though anime was included in this discussion.
Superman's power comes from a YELLOW sun not red...seeing as how our sun is yellow. Cell didn't have the power to destroy the solar system either. So that's pointless to say.
Ok, yellow, whatever, pointless, the fundamental is, his power comes from our sun. And yes, cell HAS the power to blast the sun. Have you any proof that says otherwise and this was stated? Besides, i don't even see what's the big deal about it, if master kame and piccolo by the begining of DBZ can blast the moon or vegeta in the sayan saga could blast the earth, i don't know what's the big deal about someone thousands and thousands times stronger to be able to blast the sun.
Beating somebody hotter than the sun doesn't mean much either when that guy is still slower, and weaker than Superman. Plus GT isn't canon.
You and canon. FINE, whatever, I will use only manga in this discussion. But my point here is, nobody said in the begining that GT wasn't included... Because ssj4 goku is something really comiscally powerful.
Ok, yellow, whatever, pointless, the fundamental is, his power comes from our sun. And yes, cell HAS the power to blast the sun. Have you any proof that says otherwise and this was stated? Besides, i don't even see what's the big deal about it, if master kame and piccolo by the begining of DBZ can blast the moon or vegeta in the sayan saga could blast the earth, i don't know what's the big deal about someone thousands and thousands times stronger to be able to blast the sun.
It takes 10^9 times the magnitude of power to destroy the sun compared to the moon (taken from some figures on this thread a month back). Are you saying Goku's power increasd that much between the frieza saga and the buu saga?
Cell saga Goku still had power up to the max to hit cell with a planet destroying blast. As did Vegeta. In the buu saga Goku and Vegeta were scared witless by Kid Buu's planet destroying blast, saying it was way more energy than was needed to destroy them.
All we have is cells insane boast that he could destroy the solar system. I can say that doesn't mean its true. Especially considering the majority of statements cell makes are proven incorrect.
Besides you talked as if Superman has never beaten up a solar system buster before. He's dropped galaxy busters in his time. Also Superman can last days without sunlight. And blowing up the sun would be very out of character for Goku.
SS4 Goku isn't cosmically powerful, he got impaled by a flagpole
Also he almost got defeated by being frozen.
It takes 10^9 times the magnitude of power to destroy the sun compared to the moon (taken from some figures on this thread a month back). Are you saying Goku's power increasd that much between the frieza saga and the buu saga?
Actually, yeah. Did you know that Toryama himself, through the Dainzenshu, stated that ssj goku and frieza were already over 100 millions when they fought? In fact, this isn't much hard to understand if we see that freeza 1 was at 530 000, freeza 2 over 1 million (both stated) and yet base goku was even with freeza 4 (with 2 extra transformations) and after using kaioken20x (multiplies his power by a factor of 20) and kamehame he couldn't kill a freeza using 50% of his power. Anyway, yeah, in fact if you actually talk with some of the best DBZ experts around (in decent forums) you will see that according to this the escalation of power, cell was already in the billions (note that piccolo was 329 when blasted a moon with a regular blast, and kame blasted the moon with probably less power seing that he was 139 by the begining of DBZ)
Ah, another thing, these are comics, so even if cell wasn't this widely stronger it wouldn't matter because the comics create an alternative reality, and in this one cell has enough energy to blow the entire solar system. Yet, it actually follows common sense.
Cell saga Goku still had power up to the max to hit cell with a planet destroying blast. As did Vegeta. In the buu saga Goku and Vegeta were scared witless by Kid Buu's planet destroying blast, saying it was way more energy than was needed to destroy them
So? What's the point here besides the fact that kid boo had enough power to blow the earth?
All we have is cells insane boast that he could destroy the solar system. I can say that doesn't mean its true. Especially considering the majority of statements cell makes are proven incorrect.
The point here is, it was stated and nothing proves otherwise. Besides, were talking about a guy whose power was on the level from a ssj2 gohan, which was MUCH stronger then anything we saw before by the cell games (see how ssj goku surpass by miles anything we see before too).
Besides you talked as if Superman has never beaten up a solar system buster before. He's dropped galaxy busters in his time. Also Superman can last days without sunlight. And blowing up the sun would be very out of character for Goku.
I am not downplaying super-man or something, I am just saying that if super-man's power comes from the sun and if goku has enough energy to blast the sun, then maybe goku has more energy then super-man.
Also he almost got defeated by being frozen.
So? I think you are confusing realities. In dragon ball reality, even though characters can blast the hell of a planet, they can still be hurt by trivial stuff like throwing a rock on his head. Yet, don't forget that dragon ball always had more of a comic side that other comics has not.
By the way, weren't we suppose to stop using non-canon?