Superman vs Goku (Official Thread)

Started by Violent2Dope135 pages

Originally posted by Endless Mike
Enough with the "Cell could destroy the Solar System" crap.

Do you honestly think this:

http://img513.imageshack.us/img513/3444/cellsolarsystembluff6qx1.gif

Was a solar - system destroying attack?

Clinging religiously to dialogue when it clearly contradicted by the actual events of the manga is a clear sign of fanboyism.

I have sumthin to say about that. He NEVER said his attack will destroy the solar system, only that he enough ki in his hands that would be sufficient to destroy the solar system. The kamehameha is a beam which can be compressed into a smaller, more intense, beam. They have Ki control. Either that or Cell was indeed bluffing.

Originally posted by Galvaclaw
Asbestos versus wood. Asbestos has an amazing ability to withstand heat (thermal energy) but slash it with a knife( a physical attack and the and it will be cut. On the other hand wood will only be scratched by the knife, but if heated it'll become ash.

The game city of heroes has this. Where there multiple types of damage and corresponding resistances.

Yes he struggled to lift 40 tons. Which isn't even a trillionth of Superman strength. Even if he gets the dubious powerup of 50 times with each transformation he'll never reach Superman.

1. Ki attacks basically ARE physical attacks. They are basically beams of energy that are condensed to sear thru enemies, it is still a physical attack. I get your point, but I don't think it applies here, and DBZ characters supercharge their attacks with Ki.

2. He couldn't in base, in SSJ he was doing it easily. Also, I doubt ANYONE thinks Goku is as strong as Supes.

Energy has to go somewhere. A blast that created a small crater like that could, in no concievable way, destroy a solar system.

Ki attacks function more as explosive attacks than physical attacks. They have two basic forms: Attacks that will explode on contact with a target like a bomb, and attacks that will cut/burn through a target (like kienzan, Frieza's death beam, etc.)

They are not physical

Originally posted by Endless Mike
Energy has to go somewhere. A blast that created a small crater like that could, in no concievable way, destroy a solar system.
You are applying real world science to an anime, DBZ was never meant to be scientifically accurate, this is not a comic book. Going by that logic we should discount everytime Supes went past lightspeed as that is scientifically impossible.

Originally posted by Violent2Dope
You are applying real world science to an anime, DBZ was never meant to be scientifically accurate, this is not a comic book. Going by that logic we should discount everytime Supes went past lightspeed as that is scientifically impossible.
Not really because its only the theory of relativity that states that nothing can go faster than the speed of light. which is of course only a theory.

Okay I've got a question. When is it ever said that the Z warriors super charge their punches with ki? I could sort of understand in like the modes when they have ki surrounding their bodies and stuff like when Gokou blocked Trunks' sword but Kid Buu didn't have any ki surrrounding his body and was still able to hurt SSJ3 Gokou with his kicks and punches. And what can they also super charge their jaws because Kid Buu and Gokou were both hurt from biting each other.

Originally posted by Vvendeta
Goku SSJ 3 will disintegrate Doomsday in my opinion as he is 2 levels more than when he disintegrate someone like Cell who resist bombs tanks, planes attacks like a breeze, but was disintegrated in parts by Goku and Vegeta. Check page 2.
Called it... I called it!

Originally posted by Creshosk
*insert some bull about cell then pigeonhole the argument to being nothing more than ridiculous claims that a planet destroying attack would be too much for doomsday throw in the rolleyes smiliy for good measure.

Originally posted by Kento
Okay I've got a question. When is it ever said that the Z warriors super charge their punches with ki? I could sort of understand in like the modes when they have ki surrounding their bodies and stuff like when Gokou blocked Trunks' sword but Kid Buu didn't have any ki surrrounding his body and was still able to hurt SSJ3 Gokou with his kicks and punches. And what can they also super charge their jaws because Kid Buu and Gokou were both hurt from biting each other.
Goku's aura wasn't prominent when he blocked Trunk's sword now was it? Also, I think their ki does raise their durability, kinda like Supe's bio aura.

Originally posted by Violent2Dope
Goku's aura wasn't prominent when he blocked Trunk's sword now was it? Also, I think their ki does raise their durability, kinda like Supe's bio aura.
But wasn't it? Unless it wasn't in the manga but I thought it was. And SSJ2 Gohan has an aura around him when he killed the Cell Jr's. However not every time somebody hits somebody and hurts them do they have an aura around them. Like Mystic Gohan beating Super Buu. Or Buu in general when he hurts somebody. SSJ usually always has aura around them though and Gokou was bullet proof as a kid so why wouldn't he be sword proof? Freeza just had more power doesn't equal the same type of durability as Buu and Cell prove. Though Cell and Buu can regen while Freeza couldn't but still. Also Freeza was mostly machine then so I always thought it was more Gokou's durability and not ki that let him block the sword without getting cut.

Originally posted by Endless Mike
Enough with the "Cell could destroy the Solar System" crap.

Do you honestly think this:

http://img513.imageshack.us/img513/3444/cellsolarsystembluff6qx1.gif

Was a solar - system destroying attack?

Clinging religiously to dialogue when it clearly contradicted by the actual events of the manga is a clear sign of fanboyism.

That show the path of the beam that supodsedly when into to space, and it shake the planet before.

yes, like Superman and Darkseid rock a solar sistem, i agree.

Originally posted by Violent2Dope
I have sumthin to say about that. He NEVER said his attack will destroy the solar system, only that he enough ki in his hands that would be sufficient to destroy the solar system. The kamehameha is a beam which can be compressed into a smaller, more intense, beam. They have Ki control. Either that or Cell was indeed bluffing.

Agree is the power concentrade, or that Cell have high among of energy, which he never feel before, so he said the expresion.

Originally posted by Endless Mike
Ki attacks function more as explosive attacks than physical attacks. They have two basic forms: Attacks that will explode on contact with a target like a bomb, and attacks that will cut/burn through a target (like kienzan, Frieza's death beam, etc.)

They are not physical

how is not physical, they destroy matter, disintegrate at contact, in DB, the Z control it at will. is fantasy, not science fiction.

Originally posted by Kento
Okay I've got a question. When is it ever said that the Z warriors super charge their punches with ki? I could sort of understand in like the modes when they have ki surrounding their bodies and stuff like when Gokou blocked Trunks' sword but Kid Buu didn't have any ki surrrounding his body and was still able to hurt SSJ3 Gokou with his kicks and punches. And what can they also super charge their jaws because Kid Buu and Gokou were both hurt from biting each other.

Kid Buu has Ki, like all matter is ki, but he never glow, when he power up he expel smoke from the little holes in his kneck.

they can supercharge the whole body, but the only time Goku put all his ki in his punch was against Piccolo Daimao.

Originally posted by Kento
But wasn't it? Unless it wasn't in the manga but I thought it was. And SSJ2 Gohan has an aura around him when he killed the Cell Jr's. However not every time somebody hits somebody and hurts them do they have an aura around them. Like Mystic Gohan beating Super Buu. Or Buu in general when he hurts somebody. SSJ usually always has aura around them though and Gokou was bullet proof as a kid so why wouldn't he be sword proof? Freeza just had more power doesn't equal the same type of durability as Buu and Cell prove. Though Cell and Buu can regen while Freeza couldn't but still. Also Freeza was mostly machine then so I always thought it was more Gokou's durability and not ki that let him block the sword without getting cut.

Mistic Gohan didn´t need to power up anymore as the Z do it, he was magicly able to ascess to all his power without glowing.

Originally posted by superkronick92
👆

Even if Goku IT's I could argue superman is as fast as it.
http://img83.imageshack.us/my.php?image=sspeedwg5.jpg

He's talking to them from the watchtower, then he's in front of them, instantly

is cool, Goku port to Planet of King Kai that is 100000 km. from Emma check out i think, who is another dimension from Earth, to the new planet Namek who is supose to be in another system, but is a cool feat of superman.

I will like to see a fighting speed feat that show this.

IGN Comics: Since Crisis on Infinite Earths, DC has went to great pains to remove Superboy from Legion continuity. With the return of the Legion to Superman's back-story, what does that do to the whole mess that has been Legion continuity? Or is that better left for an editor or future Legion writers to worry about?

Johns: The good thing is that you can pick up Adventure Comics #300 and that happened. You can pick up any Superboy and the Legion of Superheroes story and that happened. You can pick up the new trade coming out that Paul Levitz and Keith Giffen did, and that happened. All those are back-stories, so if you want to read them, the stories are there. Really, we're sticking with everything that happened up through Crisis on Infinite Earths.

So all Superman's adventures as Superboy in the legion are canon again. That means Superman has many of pre crisis Superboy's feats under his belt again. Goku doesn't stand a chance.

Originally posted by Vvendeta
how is not physical, they destroy matter, disintegrate at contact, in DB, the Z control it at will. is fantasy, not science fiction.

http://www.bartleby.com/61/68/S0146800.html

NOUN: A literary or cinematic genre in which fantasy, typically based on speculative scientific discoveries or developments, environmental changes, space travel, or life on other planets, forms part of the plot or background.

It has space travel and it has aliens. It's science fiction.

The Ki attacks are not composed of matter, they are composed of energy.

Yes, energy interacts with matter, L ike fire or electricity.

Ki(energy) does not translate to physical (matter)

Originally posted by Vvendeta
Kid Buu has Ki, like all matter is ki, but he never glow, when he power up he expel smoke from the little holes in his kneck.

they can supercharge the whole body, but the only time Goku put all his ki in his punch was against Piccolo Daimao.

Ki is energy not matter. English obviously isn't your primary langauge, but stop using it incorrectly.

You're wrong, ki is not matter, ki is energy.

Originally posted by Vvendeta
is cool, Goku port to Planet of King Kai that is 100000 km. from Emma check out i think, who is another dimension from Earth, to the new planet Namek who is supose to be in another system, but is a cool feat of superman.

I will like to see a fighting speed feat that show this.

Why? So you can ignore it again? Say that Goku is faster with your scans again?

We went over this already. Prove that superman's spreed is seperate forom an ability to fight fast. He can change his outfit and move at light speeds but this is not "fighting speed" this is "traveling and changing clothes" speed... right? to be able to preform action fast is the same regardless of whether its fighting, moving, changing clothes, stuffing a person's ears with cotten or picking up a bottle of wine.

Prove that they're seperate like you're claiming they are. But why do I bother? You won't do it. You DBZ supporters never do this... You can't. Because it isn't. Yet that some pale hope that you have that "They're seperate, so despite Superman moving at lightspeeds he will not be able to hit goku who can hit him millions of times. Anything you post we'll say that goku has been doing since he's a child and without any proof to back up our claims we'll say that he's even faster than he was."

You got nothing.

NOUN: A literary or cinematic genre in which fantasy, typically based on speculative scientific discoveries or developments, environmental changes, space travel, or life on other planets, forms part of the plot or background.

It has space travel and it has aliens. It's science fiction.


Ok, according with your dictionary is science fiction, but you can not apply real science to fiction, or use DC science in DB.

The Ki attacks are not composed of matter, they are composed of energy.

Yes, energy interacts with matter, L ike fire or electricity.


Energy can destroy physical matter.

Ki(energy) does not translate to physical (matter)

Ki is energy not matter. English obviously isn't your primary langauge, but stop using it incorrectly.


Here I apologize, English is not my first language, that is right, I mean to say in DB all elements has ki. Energy can destroy matter.

You're wrong, ki is not matter, ki is energy.

Again in orient, is believe all elements have ki.
Why? So you can ignore it again? Say that Goku is faster with your scans again?

I didn´t ignore it, I said is a cool feat of Superman.

We went over this already. Prove that superman's spreed is seperate forom an ability to fight fast. He can change his outfit and move at light speeds but this is not "fighting speed" this is "traveling and changing clothes" speed... right? to be able to preform action fast is the same regardless of whether its fighting, moving, changing clothes, stuffing a person's ears with cotten or picking up a bottle of wine.

I didn´t said Superman is slow, I said Goku can fight with him according with the history of speed that Goku has since DB. Your opinion don´t change the evolution of speed of Goku.

Prove that they're seperate like you're claiming they are. But why do I bother? You won't do it. You DBZ supporters never do this... You can't. Because it isn't. Yet that some pale hope that you have that "They're seperate, so despite Superman moving at lightspeeds he will not be able to hit goku who can hit him millions of times. Anything you post we'll say that goku has been doing since he's a child and without any proof to back up our claims we'll say that he's even faster than he was."

I never Said Superman is slow in fighting.
Drawings of Superman fighting and Goku fighting aren´t not different, Goku´s even is draw faster, only in DC they show Superman speed mostly in flying, and Toriyama mostly in fighting. The whole manga is prove of a history of a kid that Train to get stronger first to compete, then to save the planet.

You got nothing.

Imperiex disintegrate Doomsday with Energy. You have not authority to underestimate Goku Blast, you can not use DC science in DB, any of Us don´t have official authority to decide if a Blast of Goku can disintegrate Superman, for that this debate is never ending. I prove Goku Resistant and durable to be beat by a punc

Originally posted by Vvendeta
Well, this kind of debates always reach a point in what one never will convince other, but this is my opinion, the Superman vs Goku threads always is focus in Solar system destruction (which I believe Cell is make by Toriyama with that power, but I can not prove because he has not chance to show it for the sake of the history) and not in the capacity that the z has to disintegrate, and some Superman fans ignore Goku does this Since DB not Z, like here Disintegrating a robot head in Red ribbon Army saga. Before Karin Training, second tournament, etc.




In page 2 of this thread I post Cell attack by a human army DB, and Cell don´t feel the attack, but Goku SSJ 1 desintegrate his head, only that Cell regenerate. But Gohan being one level powerful than his father disintegrate him until his last Cell.
Here comes the point of controversy, how powerful is Goku SSJ3 compare to SSJ2, and SSJ 2 compare to the one that fought Cell? And Goku Going to Train with Ubb comparing with the one who fought Buu? Superman supporters and Goku Supporters always find a point of controversy here. taking the Freeza Saga for reference, Goku from his normal 20 Kaioken and Freeza state he was only using the half of his power, so for Goku to reach 100 % is between 40 and 50 times Kaioken, that is what SSJ is, a better way of power up, triggered by rage, without damage his body as a high Kaio ken does.
Considering this, is acceptable to say that the other SSJ transformations follow the same pattern? Endless Mike say is not consistency, but saying that is ignoring the whole DB z argument, at more training, more Strong the character, his power of disintegration is higher, I recognize plot holes in the history, but, like I said, Doomsday and Superman were fighting in front of metropolis with people watching, some plot are make to make the history interesting. Like Buu taking time so vegita and Goku fuse. Or comic relief Mr Satan, or Superman hit by Batman.

Goku SSJ 3 will disintegrate Doomsday in my opinion as he is 2 levels more than when he disintegrate someone like Cell who resist bombs tanks, planes attacks like a breeze, but was disintegrated in parts by Goku and Vegeta. Check page 2.

Goku and Superman always will be a topic of discussion until they make a official crossover, which never going to happen.
Good night is late in Iceland

None of that answer the question.

Again...

How would Goku stop Doomsday?